-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
question on abilities
- Thread starter IJsthee
- Start date
Ugh, no one got back to me before on this. Here's what I know for -certain-, and I'd appreciate it if replies to this weren't postulations or "I thinks" but actual knowledge.
When you trade a pokemon to DP and evolve it there, it has a chance for its trait to switch to a new one if one was added in this generation. You -may- be able to soft reset, and you -may- be able to clone in Emerald and trade again in an attempt to get the new trait, but on both of these I do not know.
When you trade a pokemon to DP and evolve it there, it has a chance for its trait to switch to a new one if one was added in this generation. You -may- be able to soft reset, and you -may- be able to clone in Emerald and trade again in an attempt to get the new trait, but on both of these I do not know.
It works like this.
Every Pokemon has a number that stores which ability it has. Let's call it an ability identification number, or AID for short. This number has a certain range, so let's assume it's one byte long (I don't know its maximum range). If the number is between 0 and 127 (for instance), the Pokemon takes its first ability; if it is between 128 and 255, it takes the second one. The AID is generated when the Pokemon is hatched or is encountered, and it never changes whatever happens to the Pokemon.
In your example, Yanma had either Speed Boost or Compoundeyes, and Yanmega has either Speed Boost or Tinted Lens. Let's say that Speed Boost is in the 0-127 range and Compoundeyes and Tinted Lens are in the 128-255 range. That means that, if a particular Yanma's AID is between 0 and 127 (thus having the Speed Boost ability), it will retain its Speed Boost ability whenever it evolves to Yanmega, as the AID never changes, not even if the Pokemon evolves. Also, if Yanma had Compoundeyes, the ability would change to Tinted Lens whenever Yanma evolves to Yanmega.
Now suppose a Pokemon has only one possible ability. It turns out that, internally, that Pokemon has STILL two possible abilities - but the two possibile abilities are the same. Let's take Linoone as an example. In Advance, Linoone had only one ability: Pickup. Internally, Linoone still has an AID representing its ability. If it is between 0 and 127, Linoone gets Pickup. If it is between 128 and 255, Linoone also gets Pickup.
However, in DP, Linoone has two possible abilities: Pickup and Gluttony. This means that if a Linoone from Ruby, say, is transferred to Diamond, Linoone might have its ability changed to Gluttony. Assuming that Pickup is in the 0-127 range and Gluttony is in the 128-255 range in DP, if Linoone's AID was between 0 to 127 in Ruby, then Linoone's ability would stay as Pickup in Diamond, whereas if it was in the 128-255 range, it would change to Gluttony in Diamond.
I hope I made this matter a bit more clear.
Every Pokemon has a number that stores which ability it has. Let's call it an ability identification number, or AID for short. This number has a certain range, so let's assume it's one byte long (I don't know its maximum range). If the number is between 0 and 127 (for instance), the Pokemon takes its first ability; if it is between 128 and 255, it takes the second one. The AID is generated when the Pokemon is hatched or is encountered, and it never changes whatever happens to the Pokemon.
In your example, Yanma had either Speed Boost or Compoundeyes, and Yanmega has either Speed Boost or Tinted Lens. Let's say that Speed Boost is in the 0-127 range and Compoundeyes and Tinted Lens are in the 128-255 range. That means that, if a particular Yanma's AID is between 0 and 127 (thus having the Speed Boost ability), it will retain its Speed Boost ability whenever it evolves to Yanmega, as the AID never changes, not even if the Pokemon evolves. Also, if Yanma had Compoundeyes, the ability would change to Tinted Lens whenever Yanma evolves to Yanmega.
Now suppose a Pokemon has only one possible ability. It turns out that, internally, that Pokemon has STILL two possible abilities - but the two possibile abilities are the same. Let's take Linoone as an example. In Advance, Linoone had only one ability: Pickup. Internally, Linoone still has an AID representing its ability. If it is between 0 and 127, Linoone gets Pickup. If it is between 128 and 255, Linoone also gets Pickup.
However, in DP, Linoone has two possible abilities: Pickup and Gluttony. This means that if a Linoone from Ruby, say, is transferred to Diamond, Linoone might have its ability changed to Gluttony. Assuming that Pickup is in the 0-127 range and Gluttony is in the 128-255 range in DP, if Linoone's AID was between 0 to 127 in Ruby, then Linoone's ability would stay as Pickup in Diamond, whereas if it was in the 128-255 range, it would change to Gluttony in Diamond.
I hope I made this matter a bit more clear.
Ugh, not this again.
The problem with X-Act's theory is that internally, for Pokemon with only one ability, their second ability is apparently "no ability". Apparently it's possible to shark a Slaking with No Ability instead of Truant.
The issue suffers mostly from a lack of empirical evidence. We've had one guy (who's since disappeared) say that his traded Chlorophyll Tangela evolved into a Leaf Guard Tangrowth. Unfortunately, nobody I know has tested it any further.
Hopefully in the coming days more people will test it out.
The problem with X-Act's theory is that internally, for Pokemon with only one ability, their second ability is apparently "no ability". Apparently it's possible to shark a Slaking with No Ability instead of Truant.
The issue suffers mostly from a lack of empirical evidence. We've had one guy (who's since disappeared) say that his traded Chlorophyll Tangela evolved into a Leaf Guard Tangrowth. Unfortunately, nobody I know has tested it any further.
Hopefully in the coming days more people will test it out.
I posted almost exactly what X-Act said a few months ago, and it was shown by OmegaDonut and others to (usually) be wrong -- thanks to the No Ability thing. That said, there are a couple pokemon that have two copies of the same ability -- Granbull comes to mind, and Intimidate can become Quick Feet upon transfer. There are a couple more that I am forgetting too.
Well, the no-ability thing is maybe GameFreak's decision that that Pokemon will never have a secondary alternative ability in a future generation. For Slaking, this would be a decision that makes a lot of sense. This is just conjecturing, though.
That said, I think someone that can look into the game code should give us a better (and quicker) answer to this problem.
That said, I think someone that can look into the game code should give us a better (and quicker) answer to this problem.
I never disappeared. I also had a R/S Guts Machoke turn into a No Guard Machamp, and one of my Murkrow got Super Luck when it evolved. I can show you, since it still says they came from Hoenn.
On second thoughts, there are two possibilities:
Possibility 1) Some Pokemon that had only one ability in Advance have their ability choices <ThatAbility> and <NoAbility>, while others have their ability choices <ThatAbility> and <ThatAbility>. Let's face it, some Pokemon like Slaking and Shedinja will (probably) never have a secondary ability in future generations, so GameFreak might have decided to seal their abilities with the <NoAbility> secondary option. Other Pokemon such as Linoone, for example, could make do with a second option for its ability (and in fact did give it a second option in DP), so its ability selections could be <Pickup> and <Pickup>.
Possibility 2) All Pokemon that had only one ability in Advance have their choices <ThatAbility> and <NoAbility>. If the number falls in the <NoAbility> range, the other ability will be used instead. This option seems to be contradicted by the fact that a <NoAbility> Slaking can be sharked, but maybe the GameShark did more than just move the AID to <NoAbility> range for that Slaking to be created.
Anyway, I have just PMed user loadingNOW about this matter, since he seems to be great in extracting game information from the ROM. He already gave us EXACTLY how breeding in Emerald (and in Ruby and Sapphire) works by looking at the ROM, so hopefully he will help us in this regard too.
Possibility 1) Some Pokemon that had only one ability in Advance have their ability choices <ThatAbility> and <NoAbility>, while others have their ability choices <ThatAbility> and <ThatAbility>. Let's face it, some Pokemon like Slaking and Shedinja will (probably) never have a secondary ability in future generations, so GameFreak might have decided to seal their abilities with the <NoAbility> secondary option. Other Pokemon such as Linoone, for example, could make do with a second option for its ability (and in fact did give it a second option in DP), so its ability selections could be <Pickup> and <Pickup>.
Possibility 2) All Pokemon that had only one ability in Advance have their choices <ThatAbility> and <NoAbility>. If the number falls in the <NoAbility> range, the other ability will be used instead. This option seems to be contradicted by the fact that a <NoAbility> Slaking can be sharked, but maybe the GameShark did more than just move the AID to <NoAbility> range for that Slaking to be created.
Anyway, I have just PMed user loadingNOW about this matter, since he seems to be great in extracting game information from the ROM. He already gave us EXACTLY how breeding in Emerald (and in Ruby and Sapphire) works by looking at the ROM, so hopefully he will help us in this regard too.
Edit: Everything i'd said, X-Act had already said.
I reckon that ADV has a check against NoAbility, which is activated every time a new pokemon is created. But gamesharking a new poke isn't creating a poke in the way the game intended, so it can't perform this check.
In short, compoundeyes yanma -> colorglasses yanmega
speedboost yanma -> speedboost yanmega
regardless of whether or not the yanma has been through PALPARK
I reckon that ADV has a check against NoAbility, which is activated every time a new pokemon is created. But gamesharking a new poke isn't creating a poke in the way the game intended, so it can't perform this check.
In short, compoundeyes yanma -> colorglasses yanmega
speedboost yanma -> speedboost yanmega
regardless of whether or not the yanma has been through PALPARK
X-Act: I think that it is a combination of both of your possibilities:
Each species has two abilities either [THIS] or [THAT]
Some species only have one [THIS] and the second is the [NO ABILITY]
What nintendo probably did was for some species that previously only had one ability they replaced the [NO ABILITY] with a new one [THAT]. Linoone would be an example of this.
You said that the AID is generated at meeting/hatching the pokemon, what probably then happens is that the game does a check, and if the AID says the ability is [NO ABILITY] it then defaults to the other one [THIS]. I believe that the AID value does not change though. Since traits can change as pkm evolve (eg Larvitar -> Ttar) the game re-assigns the ability by checking the AID, here it would do the [NO ABILITY check again.
The linoone is probably a case of [THIS] and [NO ABILITY] where the zigzagoon's AID was pointing to [NO ABILITY] and defaulted to [THIS]. Then upon evolution, since the AID didn't change, when checking to assign the ability it then becomes Gluttony, the new [THAT] from the 4th gen.
The Slaking probably had the [NO ABILITY] because the gameshark would be able to bypass the creation checks and store that value there.
Each species has two abilities either [THIS] or [THAT]
Some species only have one [THIS] and the second is the [NO ABILITY]
What nintendo probably did was for some species that previously only had one ability they replaced the [NO ABILITY] with a new one [THAT]. Linoone would be an example of this.
You said that the AID is generated at meeting/hatching the pokemon, what probably then happens is that the game does a check, and if the AID says the ability is [NO ABILITY] it then defaults to the other one [THIS]. I believe that the AID value does not change though. Since traits can change as pkm evolve (eg Larvitar -> Ttar) the game re-assigns the ability by checking the AID, here it would do the [NO ABILITY check again.
The linoone is probably a case of [THIS] and [NO ABILITY] where the zigzagoon's AID was pointing to [NO ABILITY] and defaulted to [THIS]. Then upon evolution, since the AID didn't change, when checking to assign the ability it then becomes Gluttony, the new [THAT] from the 4th gen.
The Slaking probably had the [NO ABILITY] because the gameshark would be able to bypass the creation checks and store that value there.
Okay, loadingNOW has answered me about the abilities in Advance and DP. And it turns out that... we need to test this.
What follows is a summary of what loadingNOW told me about the matter.
In Advance, a Pokemon has a flag (a bit that is either 0 or 1) that determines whether it has <Ability1> (0) or <Ability2> (1). This is generated at random if the Pokemon has two possible abilities. But if the Pokemon has only one possible ability, this flag is set to 0. Then the numbers 0 and 1 are linked to the actual ability via a table. That means that a Slaking without Truant is impossible in Advance. However, using Action Replay, you can force the flag to be 1 for things like Slaking, resulting in a "No Ability" Slaking. loadingNOW provided me with a screenshot of a Bulbasaur with a "No Ability" ability.
In DP, however, the Pokemon's ability is not stored as a flag, but the actual ability number is stored. This means that things such as Wonderguard Sableye are possible to be sharked in DP. In Advance, this is impossible, or at least, much more difficult, since the Pokemon only has a flag (0 or 1) which is then linked to the real ability later.
When I asked loadingNOW what happens when a Pokemon from Advance gets transferred to DP, his answer was... "I don't know."
To conclude, then, we need to test this and see exactly what happens... and either confirm that what we said in this thread is true, or completely dismiss it as false.
What follows is a summary of what loadingNOW told me about the matter.
In Advance, a Pokemon has a flag (a bit that is either 0 or 1) that determines whether it has <Ability1> (0) or <Ability2> (1). This is generated at random if the Pokemon has two possible abilities. But if the Pokemon has only one possible ability, this flag is set to 0. Then the numbers 0 and 1 are linked to the actual ability via a table. That means that a Slaking without Truant is impossible in Advance. However, using Action Replay, you can force the flag to be 1 for things like Slaking, resulting in a "No Ability" Slaking. loadingNOW provided me with a screenshot of a Bulbasaur with a "No Ability" ability.
In DP, however, the Pokemon's ability is not stored as a flag, but the actual ability number is stored. This means that things such as Wonderguard Sableye are possible to be sharked in DP. In Advance, this is impossible, or at least, much more difficult, since the Pokemon only has a flag (0 or 1) which is then linked to the real ability later.
When I asked loadingNOW what happens when a Pokemon from Advance gets transferred to DP, his answer was... "I don't know."
To conclude, then, we need to test this and see exactly what happens... and either confirm that what we said in this thread is true, or completely dismiss it as false.
Of all the bad times for my DS to break. >.<
I have to send it away for repairs next week. But before that I'll try to do as much of a speed run to get to Pal Park as fast as I can.
Although the game is storing the ability number now they still have to do an assignment and table lookup to be able to get it in the first place. What we need to do is figure out when this occurs. It's obvious that it must occur during the initial encounter/creation of egg, as well as at evolution.
What we need to find out is exactly how it handles transfering in. As well as what occurs at evolution.
For transfering in it probably looks at the flag and then assigns the correspoinding ability.
As for evolution, well that will need to be tested.
I have to send it away for repairs next week. But before that I'll try to do as much of a speed run to get to Pal Park as fast as I can.
Although the game is storing the ability number now they still have to do an assignment and table lookup to be able to get it in the first place. What we need to do is figure out when this occurs. It's obvious that it must occur during the initial encounter/creation of egg, as well as at evolution.
What we need to find out is exactly how it handles transfering in. As well as what occurs at evolution.
For transfering in it probably looks at the flag and then assigns the correspoinding ability.
As for evolution, well that will need to be tested.