Alright, so I've been playing Shoddy a lot recently (a hell of a lot more than I ever used to, anyway) and I've built a fairly solid team that has taken my ranking up to somewhere around the 1400 mark. However it seems to have stalled there; I may string a couple of wins together here and there but more and more I'm finding myself getting backed into a corner by good opponents and having no way out. This is likely due to either the fact I'm a mediocre battler at best, or my team isn't as good as it could be. In a rare change of heart I'm going to go the optimistic route and assume my team can improve, hence why I turn to this forum for assistance.
A word of warning: The is a fairly standard "set up a Deoxys-E sweep" style of team. You're not going to find many surprises here, and obviously it is going to share similarities with other offense-oriented teams because the game's heavy hitters are pretty well defined. What I mainly need help with is tweaking it so that everything meshes a little better and works more consistently than it does now.
@ Choice Scarf
EVs: 54 HP / 252 SpA / 204 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Hypnosis
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
Gengar generally gets most matches off to a flying start, sleeping my opponent's lead or whatever else they choose to switch in. I'm not running max speed because I'm not interested in rolling the dice against other Scarfgars and would much rather switch out than risk losing a valuable member of my team. Timid, 204 Speed and the Scarf allows me to outspeed any Deoxys-E that isn't holding a Scarf itself, and that's more than enough speed for me.
The leftover EVs go into HP and have proven to be gamebreaking in many of the matches I've played. A lot of things are EV'd to OHKO or 2HKO standard 6 HP Gengars and these extra EVs help out a lot. In particular I can recall surviving an Adamant Lucario's Crunch, which is possible with only 6 HP EVs but very unlikely.
SpA is maximized so that Gengar can hit as hard as he possibly can without bumping him up to a Modest nature.
@ Leftovers
EVs: 252 / 32 SpA / 224 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse
This is the bulky TauntTran from the analysis page, with Earth Power exchanged for Dragon Pulse to boost his coverage. He's certainly very bulky, and being able to beat Blisseys is very nice, however Will-O-Wisp almost never seems to hit (it having more accuracy than Hypnosis doesn't seem to hold true in any of my battles but whatever). He's also my only solid Gengar switch-in, and even then he's 2HKO'd by the Focus Blast varieties.
I'm thinking a RestTalk Heatran may be more this team's cup of tea.
@ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe
Nature: Bold
- Leech Seed
- Recover
- Grass Knot
- HP Electric
Leech Seed Celebi spreads plenty of residual damage around, and after seeding something, I can switch out to something that resists whatever move is coming Celebi's way and hopefully grab some free healing and cause a switch. This thing is sturdy as hell and damn near impossible to kill if you can't hit it SE.
I gave it HP Electric because Celebi just isn't a Gyarados counter anymore without it; Adamant/252 +1 Life Orb Ice Fang is an easy 2HKO on Celebi while Grass Knot only manages to 3HKO. This does mean that this Celebi can't reliably switch in to Gyarados either, however HP Electric does do enough to neuter my enemy's Gyarados to the point where it can be stalled out with some clever switching.
@ Life Orb
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Inner Focus
- Swords Dance
- Extremespeed
- Crunch
- Close Combat
I used to have Machamp here, but I didn't have Celebi in the team at that point and I decided if three of my Pokemon were going to be weak to Shadow Ball I'd better have at least two resists. There really isn't much to say about SD Lucario, because it's all already said on the analysis page. After a Swords Dance, you'd better hope you're a Gengar with Focus Blast or else you'll be feeling a whole lot of pain. Even without an SD, his Extremespeed has enough power to take out any Garchomp who survived one of my Ice attacks via a Yache Berry.
Lucario is one of three Pokemon on my team with Life Orb, however he's the only one who has no decent alternative.
@ Life Orb
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Ice Fang
Immunity to Ground, several handy resists and Intimidate make Gyarados an essential member of the team. The opportunities he has to switch in throughout a match are plenty, and all it takes is one Dragon Dance against a team of weakened pokemon for him to clean up. He's got 260 Speed, 390 after a Dragon Dance, enough to outrun all his common Thunderbolt-carrying adversaries bar Jolteon and Deoxys-E. Water/Rock/Ice is a great combo that allows him to tear apart everything he can't outrun, especially when such wide coverage is backed by a 383 Attack stat without factoring in either Life Orb or a Dragon Dance.
Another Life Orber, except Gyarados could potentially carry Leftovers instead to increase his durability. Not that Life Orb is a bad item, just that currently, half of my team wears itself down without any input from my opponent and that's a scary thought.
@ Life Orb
EVs: 182 Atk / 252 SpA / 76 Spe
Nature: Naive
- Superpower
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
Standard late-game sweeper Deoxys-E, pretty much standard. 76 Speed gets me ahead of Adamant ScarfChomp every time, perhaps a null point these days - what with him being so rare - but worth preparing for anyway. 182 Attack allows me to 2HKO any variation of Blissey, and OHKO any Blissey sitting at less than 70% health. Psychic is for STAB'd, powerful hits on foes I can't otherwise hit SE. Thunderbolt and Ice Beam covers pretty much everything else.
Yet again with the Life Orb, however I find Expert Belt Deoxys-E just packs too little punch without it.
An alternative spread I'm considering is Mild, 22 Atk / 252 SpA / 236 Spe. That raises my SpA stat by 28 points and keeps my speed at 455 (enough to outrun ScarfChomp), however it lowers my Atk stat by 40 points and leaves me significantly worse off against Blissey (ie. a Blissey with any HP investment is not 2HKO'd). I'm not sure if the boost to my SpA is worth losing the ability to reliably give Blissey the beatdown.
Should be fairly obvious, because the strategy is relatively simple. Gengar gets the match rolling with an early Hypnosis and it's up to me to remain dominant from there. I've got lots of high-powered Pokemon ranging from bulky to glass-cannon, so I've got to carefully pick and choose my switch-ins to make sure I gain the maximum reward for each of my moves. Because the team is just a seething mass of powerful attacks, losing any one Pokemon doesn't usually cripple my team unless I specifically needed that Pokemon to take out one of my opponent's threats.
However, the current lack of bulk - with only Celebi and Heatran really contributing, Gyarados in a pinch - often forces me to make the choice "Who is least important right now", a situation I try to avoid but one I often find myself in anyway.
I would set out a threat list, but on an offensive team it seems like a moot point; If I'm being forced to continually "counter" stuff then I'm probably getting beaten anyway. If I did set out a threat list, it would likely contain forty-odd lines of "Wear it down and kill it later with Deoxys" which doesn't seem like a worthwhile endeavor. I should be forcing my opponents to counter me, not the other way around.
I'm open to any and all suggestions, whether they be changing Pokemon or changing movesets. I'd also like some feedback on my own considerations, ie. Heatran's set/EV spread, Gyarados' item, and Deoxys' alternate spread.
So, yeah. Rate away.
A word of warning: The is a fairly standard "set up a Deoxys-E sweep" style of team. You're not going to find many surprises here, and obviously it is going to share similarities with other offense-oriented teams because the game's heavy hitters are pretty well defined. What I mainly need help with is tweaking it so that everything meshes a little better and works more consistently than it does now.
The Team
EVs: 54 HP / 252 SpA / 204 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Hypnosis
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
Gengar generally gets most matches off to a flying start, sleeping my opponent's lead or whatever else they choose to switch in. I'm not running max speed because I'm not interested in rolling the dice against other Scarfgars and would much rather switch out than risk losing a valuable member of my team. Timid, 204 Speed and the Scarf allows me to outspeed any Deoxys-E that isn't holding a Scarf itself, and that's more than enough speed for me.
The leftover EVs go into HP and have proven to be gamebreaking in many of the matches I've played. A lot of things are EV'd to OHKO or 2HKO standard 6 HP Gengars and these extra EVs help out a lot. In particular I can recall surviving an Adamant Lucario's Crunch, which is possible with only 6 HP EVs but very unlikely.
SpA is maximized so that Gengar can hit as hard as he possibly can without bumping him up to a Modest nature.
EVs: 252 / 32 SpA / 224 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse
This is the bulky TauntTran from the analysis page, with Earth Power exchanged for Dragon Pulse to boost his coverage. He's certainly very bulky, and being able to beat Blisseys is very nice, however Will-O-Wisp almost never seems to hit (it having more accuracy than Hypnosis doesn't seem to hold true in any of my battles but whatever). He's also my only solid Gengar switch-in, and even then he's 2HKO'd by the Focus Blast varieties.
I'm thinking a RestTalk Heatran may be more this team's cup of tea.
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe
Nature: Bold
- Leech Seed
- Recover
- Grass Knot
- HP Electric
Leech Seed Celebi spreads plenty of residual damage around, and after seeding something, I can switch out to something that resists whatever move is coming Celebi's way and hopefully grab some free healing and cause a switch. This thing is sturdy as hell and damn near impossible to kill if you can't hit it SE.
I gave it HP Electric because Celebi just isn't a Gyarados counter anymore without it; Adamant/252 +1 Life Orb Ice Fang is an easy 2HKO on Celebi while Grass Knot only manages to 3HKO. This does mean that this Celebi can't reliably switch in to Gyarados either, however HP Electric does do enough to neuter my enemy's Gyarados to the point where it can be stalled out with some clever switching.
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Inner Focus
- Swords Dance
- Extremespeed
- Crunch
- Close Combat
I used to have Machamp here, but I didn't have Celebi in the team at that point and I decided if three of my Pokemon were going to be weak to Shadow Ball I'd better have at least two resists. There really isn't much to say about SD Lucario, because it's all already said on the analysis page. After a Swords Dance, you'd better hope you're a Gengar with Focus Blast or else you'll be feeling a whole lot of pain. Even without an SD, his Extremespeed has enough power to take out any Garchomp who survived one of my Ice attacks via a Yache Berry.
Lucario is one of three Pokemon on my team with Life Orb, however he's the only one who has no decent alternative.
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Ice Fang
Immunity to Ground, several handy resists and Intimidate make Gyarados an essential member of the team. The opportunities he has to switch in throughout a match are plenty, and all it takes is one Dragon Dance against a team of weakened pokemon for him to clean up. He's got 260 Speed, 390 after a Dragon Dance, enough to outrun all his common Thunderbolt-carrying adversaries bar Jolteon and Deoxys-E. Water/Rock/Ice is a great combo that allows him to tear apart everything he can't outrun, especially when such wide coverage is backed by a 383 Attack stat without factoring in either Life Orb or a Dragon Dance.
Another Life Orber, except Gyarados could potentially carry Leftovers instead to increase his durability. Not that Life Orb is a bad item, just that currently, half of my team wears itself down without any input from my opponent and that's a scary thought.
EVs: 182 Atk / 252 SpA / 76 Spe
Nature: Naive
- Superpower
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
Standard late-game sweeper Deoxys-E, pretty much standard. 76 Speed gets me ahead of Adamant ScarfChomp every time, perhaps a null point these days - what with him being so rare - but worth preparing for anyway. 182 Attack allows me to 2HKO any variation of Blissey, and OHKO any Blissey sitting at less than 70% health. Psychic is for STAB'd, powerful hits on foes I can't otherwise hit SE. Thunderbolt and Ice Beam covers pretty much everything else.
Yet again with the Life Orb, however I find Expert Belt Deoxys-E just packs too little punch without it.
An alternative spread I'm considering is Mild, 22 Atk / 252 SpA / 236 Spe. That raises my SpA stat by 28 points and keeps my speed at 455 (enough to outrun ScarfChomp), however it lowers my Atk stat by 40 points and leaves me significantly worse off against Blissey (ie. a Blissey with any HP investment is not 2HKO'd). I'm not sure if the boost to my SpA is worth losing the ability to reliably give Blissey the beatdown.
The Strategy
Should be fairly obvious, because the strategy is relatively simple. Gengar gets the match rolling with an early Hypnosis and it's up to me to remain dominant from there. I've got lots of high-powered Pokemon ranging from bulky to glass-cannon, so I've got to carefully pick and choose my switch-ins to make sure I gain the maximum reward for each of my moves. Because the team is just a seething mass of powerful attacks, losing any one Pokemon doesn't usually cripple my team unless I specifically needed that Pokemon to take out one of my opponent's threats.
However, the current lack of bulk - with only Celebi and Heatran really contributing, Gyarados in a pinch - often forces me to make the choice "Who is least important right now", a situation I try to avoid but one I often find myself in anyway.
I would set out a threat list, but on an offensive team it seems like a moot point; If I'm being forced to continually "counter" stuff then I'm probably getting beaten anyway. If I did set out a threat list, it would likely contain forty-odd lines of "Wear it down and kill it later with Deoxys" which doesn't seem like a worthwhile endeavor. I should be forcing my opponents to counter me, not the other way around.
I'm open to any and all suggestions, whether they be changing Pokemon or changing movesets. I'd also like some feedback on my own considerations, ie. Heatran's set/EV spread, Gyarados' item, and Deoxys' alternate spread.
So, yeah. Rate away.
