Gen 3 rate my gen 3 OU batton pass+agility team

this team is waaaaay more balanced than the previous time I posted here,I learned about cores and I implemented them to my team but my team still struggles against hyper defensive teams.

my team is this

zapdos:
EVs:252 hp,192 def,64 sp.def
nature:sassy(-speed+spdef)
moves:batton pass,agility,thunderbolt,drill peck
item:leftovers.

marowak:
EVs:68 hp,216 atk,224 speed
nature:jolly(-sp.atk + speed)
moves:swords dance,earthquake,rock slide,double-edge
item:thick club

starmie:
EVs:4 hp,252 sp.atk,252,speed
nature:modest(-atk +spatk)
moves:psychic,thunderbolt,ice beam,hidden power grass
item:bright powder

metagross:
EVs:252 hp,252 atk,4spdef
nature:adamand(-spatk +atk)
moves:hidden power bug,meteor mash,earthquake,shadow ball
item:leftovers

salamence:
EVs:4 hp,252 sp.atk,252 speed.
nature:naive(-sp.def + speed)
moves:fire blast,hidden power grass,brick break,aerial ace
item:leftovers

blissey:
EVs:4 hp,252 def,252spatk.
nature:bold(-atk +def)
moves:soft boiled,thunder bolt,ice beam,flamethrower.
item:leftovers.



now let me explain to you how my team works:

zapdos is the single bulkiest pokemon with access to both agility and batton pass. thanks to its amazing defences it is almost impossible to get one-shot meaning that I can almost always get a guaranteed batton pass.
even without investment to attack and special attack its thunder bolt and drill peck can still do heavy damage.


marowak is the physical sweeper of the team and usually the pokemon that I try to batton pass zapdos's agility.
if marowak gets the chance to use swords dance while having the agility boost from zapdos then it becomes a force to be reckoned with.
there have been plenty of instances where it single handedly destroyed entire teams.

metagross is the second physical sweeper of the team,thanks its access to hidden power bug and the massive investment to its attack it can deal over 90% damage to celebi.
while it does not have any investment on speed it can still outrun a big portion of the metagame if it gets agility from zapdos.
if it gets lucky it may get one or two attack boosts from meteor mash.
also thanks to its typying it resists every single type salamence is weak to meaning that I can always bring it whenever salamence is in trouble.

salamence is the mixed sweeper of the team.
just like metagross can come out wherever salamence is in trouble salamence can also come out whenever metagross is in trouble.
salamence has access to hidden power grass meaning that it can safely switch to a predicted earthquake from swampert and hit swampert hard.
it can also switch when other pokemon like starmie are in trouble by celeby or when blissey is threatened by a fighting type.
it can also apreciate an agility from zapdos even though it does not usually get it.

starmie is the special sweeper of the team.
it also runs hidden power grass so it can also deal with swampert if I predict an ice beam or surf.its thunderbolt can help me deal with the spikes setters,the psychic is for killing heracross if it threats blissey with fighting type moves.
unfortunately I gave it a nature that boosts special attack meaning that if it encounters a gengar with high investment in speed it will get eaten alive.

blissey is the special wall of the team.
every single pokemon in my team is weak to at least one special type of attack,so putting a special wall in the team was a must.
originally I only gave it flamethrower only because starmie could not use it,but when I realized that this move almost always takes my opponents by surprise I realized that flammethrower blissey is an underrated tactic since most blisseys out there run either ice beam either thunderbolt or both.
its special attacks can take down several common threats.
I tried running wish but it rarely worked.


my problem with my team is that it is very difficult to win against hyper-defensive teams,especially if they have suicune with calm mind.
 
Last edited:

TrRizzo09

formerly Pkmn trainer Rizzo
Your team is potentially weak to spikes + roar.
I'm thinking about something like this: https://pokepast.es/3c4450adefd60354

First of all, I don't think you must keep drill peck zap because fire blast mence can damage heracross/breloom quite well.

Marowak is ok, but you should try bonemerang instead of eq in order to break sub.

About Starmie... Well, starmie is probably the best spinner in ADV, I prefer the defensive set so it can win against defensive swampert one vs one, a big threat of the team.

Metagross can deal with celebi without hp bug if it's banded (I think it can win even without cb, meteor mash hits pretty hard). This is your 2nd option to be batom passed by zap.

Mixmence is also a good option, I always used it with dclaw, but if you think you need flying coverage, keep aerial ace.

Finally, Curselax could be your answer against suicune, and gives to your team higher attack strength.

Hope this can help you, good luck!
 
First of all, I don't think you must keep drill peck zap because fire blast mence can damage heracross/breloom quite well.
when you say that I should not keep it,do you mean that it shoyld not be the leading pokemon?because I don't see how is zapdos's drill peck related to salamence's fire blast.
About Starmie... Well, starmie is probably the best spinner in ADV, I prefer the defensive set so it can win against defensive swampert one vs one, a big threat of the team.
shouldn't it be running hidden power grass then instead of surf?
anyway,thanks,I will test the team and let you know about how well it worked.
 

TrRizzo09

formerly Pkmn trainer Rizzo
when you say that I should not keep it,do you mean that it shoyld not be the leading pokemon?because I don't see how is zapdos's drill peck related to salamence's fire blast.
Well, I talk about fire blast mence because I really don't see the need to use drill peck other than heracross or breloom, pokemon that can be OHKOed by fire blast (even though heracross have 80% chance of living). I think hp grass could be more useful.

shouldn't it be running hidden power grass then instead of surf?
0 Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 135-159 (41.6 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Starmie needs surf in order to pressure spin blockers ( 40 SpA Starmie Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gengar: 135-159 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery). Swamp have to spam Eq to beat starmie, so you can switch to zap or mence and use hp grass when it's in range.
 
I tried your team here are my thoughts so far:
there haven't been any instances where zapdos gets to face swampert so hidden power feels wasted.also there now that it does not have drill peck it can't hit grass types like venusaur or ludicolo as hard as it once could.
also due to the EVs you suggested it can barely stay alive anymore,my EV spread was entirely focused on the defences.

using bonemerang over earthquake is just a terrible idea.
due to marowak's speed it is better to break substitute with any other move than double-hit it.
marowak already has a move with less than 100% accuracy,giving it a second one is too much of a risk for a reward which almost never comes in play.
also I don't like the EV spead you are suggesting. there is no point going beyond 200 speed since once it get a +2 speed from zapdos it can outrun anything that isn't an electrode(which is a pokemon that nobody uses.)

bulky starmie just doesn't work,also I don't think that people use ghost types as spinblockers any more.in the case of gengar it would make more sense for starmie to one-shot it with psychic and then use rapid spin on whichever pokemon comes next.

I am not sure how I feel about metagross holding choice band,I can't say I hate it, I can't say I love it,but I will say that I should probably get rid of rock slide since it is the only move that I rarely use.

I guess you had a point about salamence using dragon claw.

replacing blissey with snorlax was a smart idea but I feel that its moveset and/or EV spead should change.
 
zapdos:
EVs:252 hp,192 def,64 sp.def
nature:sassy(-speed+spdef)
moves:batton pass,agility,thunderbolt,drill peck
item:leftovers.

marowak:
EVs:68 hp,216 atk,224 speed
nature:jolly(-sp.atk + speed)
moves:swords dance,earthquake,rock slide,double-edge
item:thick club

starmie:
EVs:4 hp,252 sp.atk,252,speed
nature:modest(-atk +spatk)
moves:psychic,thunderbolt,ice beam,hidden power grass
item:bright powder

metagross:
EVs:252 hp,252 atk,4spdef
nature:adamand(-spatk +atk)
moves:hidden power bug,meteor mash,earthquake,shadow ball
item:leftovers

salamence:
EVs:4 hp,252 sp.atk,252 speed.
nature:naive(-sp.def + speed)
moves:fire blast,hidden power grass,brick break,aerial ace
item:leftovers

blissey:
EVs:4 hp,252 def,252spatk.
nature:bold(-atk +def)
moves:soft boiled,thunder bolt,ice beam,flamethrower.
item:leftovers.
(first of all use pokepaste or something, reading it made my eyes bleed thank you)

- first of all please run some speed on zapdos at least 32 to outspeed jolly ttar since drill peck zapdos as well runs - def to hit hera and celebi as hard as possible with offensive investment such as in the smogon set it runs 120. Also change it to Hp grass and the set of

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 120 SpD / 136 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Grass
- Agility
- Baton Pass

This makes it a great agility user itself and can abuse it instead of being passive as crap and having to BP it to another teammates.

- On maro you should run 252 Speed EVs and a Jolly nature, this helps Marowak outspeeds most Water-types, such as the occasional uninvested Suicune, as well as almost all Milotic
- You should also run max attack to hit as hard as possible since you do not want to be short of a KO especially since its your BP recipient

252 Atk Thick Club Marowak Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 144 HP / 132 Def Snorlax: 282-332 (56.7 - 66.8%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
216 Atk Thick Club Marowak Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 144 HP / 132 Def Snorlax: 272-320 (54.7 - 64.3%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

This can be the difference between a full on sweep and dying

- You should use this starmie spread since bright powder is full of crap and no stab surf to threaten TTar

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 40 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Surf
- Thunder Wave

This helps maro abuse the paralysis and not be fully reliant on BP + agility from zapdos to be useful. This can also provide spin to metagross, blissey and marowak which do not liked to be chip especially when checking or countering threats or being forced to switch out a lot.

- Metagross should pretty much always abuse explosion and is one of the reasons to use it is to blow up on a bulky water for marowak to break through so it should use smth like this

Metagross @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Atk / 80 Def
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Protect / Rock Slide
- Explosion

- This allows it to abuse protect for recovery while also having defense to take on ttar and explosion for milo, suicune, celebi, starmie, and swampert.

- Dragon claw should be used on salamence as its the best hit it has vs zapdos, a very good mid ground and can be very spammable especially when paired with its other coverage, arieal ace does nothing for it what so ever and I prefer rash salamence instead of naive for the power

- You should use CM blissey rn as it helps the MU vs non roar cune and can setup against many special attackers to give u an additonal potential win con and allows you a much better MU against CM jirachi, CM BP teams which allows you to have a much better MU against special offense teams

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
 
I tried your team here are my thoughts so far:
there haven't been any instances where zapdos gets to face swampert so hidden power feels wasted.also there now that it does not have drill peck it can't hit grass types like venusaur or ludicolo as hard as it once could.
also due to the EVs you suggested it can barely stay alive anymore,my EV spread was entirely focused on the defences.

using bonemerang over earthquake is just a terrible idea.
due to marowak's speed it is better to break substitute with any other move than double-hit it.
marowak already has a move with less than 100% accuracy,giving it a second one is too much of a risk for a reward which almost never comes in play.
also I don't like the EV spead you are suggesting. there is no point going beyond 200 speed since once it get a +2 speed from zapdos it can outrun anything that isn't an electrode(which is a pokemon that nobody uses.)

bulky starmie just doesn't work,also I don't think that people use ghost types as spinblockers any more.in the case of gengar it would make more sense for starmie to one-shot it with psychic and then use rapid spin on whichever pokemon comes next.

I am not sure how I feel about metagross holding choice band,I can't say I hate it, I can't say I love it,but I will say that I should probably get rid of rock slide since it is the only move that I rarely use.

I guess you had a point about salamence using dragon claw.

replacing blissey with snorlax was a smart idea but I feel that its moveset and/or EV spead should change.
- Swampert is usually the main primary switch in to zapdos and usually scouts HP grass, if its reveale to be hp ice or no hidden power at all swampert walls u all day long and offensive pert just gets free turns off of you
- Zapdos should have offenses as without it it doesnt apply enough pressure on its own and cannot abuse agility itself

- Bonemerang breaks subs from pokemon such as vaporeon BP'ing subs, sub raikou, sub cm rachi, sub zapdos bp'ing subs to teammates can also help to break it and get a hit on them.

- Max speed marowak "With 252 Speed EVs and a Jolly nature, Marowak outspeeds most Water-types, such as the occasional uninvested Suicune, as well as almost all Milotic. Another plus is the ability to outpace both Skarmory and Weezing." It also outspeeds

202 / Ludicolo / 70 / Neutral / +0 / 104
202 / Milotic / 81 / Neutral / +0 / 16
200 / Tyranitar / 61 / Neutral / +0 / 168
200 / Skarmory / 70 / Neutral / +0 / 96
200 / Metagross / 70 / Neutral / +0 / 96

Which is pretty big

- Starmie works... idk what ur talking about
- "also I don't think that people use ghost types as spinblockers any more.in the case of gengar it would make more sense for starmie to one-shot it with psychic and then use rapid spin on whichever pokemon comes next." Idk... switch to gengar and switch to smth that beats starmie such as of celebi, jirachi, metagross, forretress, and maybe some more its not that uncommon to see gengar spinblock since it has to be in a 50/50 scenario now.
 
zapdos:
EVs:252 hp,192 def,64 sp.def
nature:sassy(-speed+spdef)
moves:batton pass,agility,thunderbolt,drill peck
item:leftovers.
I use my Zapdos exaclty as yours, I also think is very good and eficient. And the Drill Peck can kill a Heracross even without any boost in ATK stats.

marowak:
EVs:68 hp,216 atk,224 speed
nature:jolly(-sp.atk + speed)
moves:swords dance,earthquake,rock slide,double-edge
item:thick club
I think Marowak is the best to receive the Agility boost of Zapdos, maybe should teach Substitute for Marowak or Zapdos, to use Sword Dance more safety and can freely sweep your adversarie.


starmie:
EVs:4 hp,252 sp.atk,252,speed
nature:modest(-atk +spatk)
moves:psychic,thunderbolt,ice beam,hidden power grass
item:bright powder
I guess the move Rapid Spin is very important to a Starmie and you should teach it for her.
salamence:
EVs:4 hp,252 sp.atk,252 speed.
nature:naive(-sp.def + speed)
moves:fire blast,hidden power grass,brick break,aerial ace
item:leftovers
I don't like pokémons mixed between Atk and Satk, I think you should to choice one of them to be more efficient.


blissey:
EVs:4 hp,252 def,252spatk.
nature:bold(-atk +def)
moves:soft boiled,thunder bolt,ice beam,flamethrower.
item:leftovers.
And I guess you should teach Calm Mind to your Blissey to it be more powerfull. And for ability I would choice Serene Grace and hope to all Ice Beam to frozen the enemy.

thanks for the feedback,but I am not using this team anymore,I am currently experimenting with creative strategies that nobody is using.
What strategies are you using today? Share with us.
 

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