Rate my Hail! [OU RMT]

[Redtype]

First of all, I would like to apologize for any grammar/spelling mistakes. My English still is not perfect… hope you don't mind that much! ^.^

Changes in BOLD.

Intro:

Hi smogon! Back in late DP, Hail Stall used to be my favourite style of play - it could hold its own against both physical and special threats, hit things hard with STABed Blizzards or be super-annoying via ProStitute Walrein stall. Much to my displeasure, Platinum brought things like Bullet Punch/Superpower Scizor, tons of Metagross leads, Rotom-A who made spinning virtually impossible and Trick [insert Psychic Pokemon], all of which basiclly ruined my beloved Hail team. After initial shock, I've tried to customize my team to make it more suitable for Platinum metagame, only to find out that all my efforts were in vain. When I've finally realized there is no point in trying, I moved to Bulky Offence instead.

One year later (about a month ago), a new Heatran set was brought to the public - TormentTran. After reading Philip7086 great RMT, I suddenly got the urge to try my luck at Hail Stalling again. So, without the further ado...

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/6 Spd
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric] / Roar
- Stealth Rock

I've tried many Pokemon in this spot, but I've found Swampert to be simply the best for this kind of team. It can lay Stealth Rocks early without too much trouble, and beat otherwise problematic Pokemon like Metagross or Aerodactyl with ease. Later in the game, it serves me well as Salamence and - most importantly - Tyranitar counter. Hidden Power Electric also makes it a fantastic non-Bulky Gyarados counter - so many people switch their Gyaradoses looking for an easy set-up only to be 2HKOed by HP. (54-63% to min/min variants). You may wonder why I'm not using Blizzard, but the reason is simple - it helps me mask the fact that I'm actually running a Hail Stall instead of regular Stall, which makes people sacrifice their Tyranitars and Hippowdons more easily. Ice Beam kills everything Blizzard does anyway and it has more PP. Roar was suggested to me by a few people, and it's still being tested.

The EVs are fairly straight forward. I moved 6 remaining EVs to Speed so I can outspeed other Swamperts.

How do I deal with opposing leads:

- I try to lay Stealth Rock despite of the threat of Taunt. If it Taunts me, I either hit it once with Ice Beam and then switch to Rotom to take the incoming Explosion, or switch to Heatran to scout the opponent’s team with Roar or use Protect. Dual Screen Azelfs are quite problematic though - any ideas?

- a very advantageous match-up, I always lay Stealth Rock first and then go to Rotom.

- Ice Beam 2HKOes

- lay Stealth Rock, and go to Rotom or Abomasnow, or (rarely) go to Abomasnow straight away.

- lay Stealth Rock, then hit it with Earthquake or use Ice Beam excepting a switch

- go to Rotom immediately, and try to kill it with Sleep Talk Overheat, if I fail and it lays it's Toxic Spikes I switch to Tentacruel to absorb them

- see Roserade. This one is a bit easier since it can't hit Rotom with Explosion nor it resists Thunderbolt. Later I spin any hazards it laid with Tentacruel.

- I usually let Rotom take the Trick and then go to Swampert or Heatran. Without Scarf it's pretty easy to wall.

- advantageous match-up, as very few LeadApes run Grass Knot. I just lay my Rocks and spin away his with Tenta.

Walrein (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 200 HP/252 Def/58 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Protect
- Toxic / Blizzard
- Super Fang

What can I say? Walrein is the entire reason to run Hail Stall over a regular Stall. I don't think anybody needs an explanation of what this thing is capable of doing, but I'll do that anyway so my RMT doesn't get locked lol - simply, switch to something that doesn't threaten Walrein much, and start the virtually infinite Protect/Substitute circle. Preferably after two layers of Toxic Spikes has been laid, so that Pokemon with recovery don't walk all over it.

I was a bit skeptical about Super Fang at first... until I tried it myself. Any non-Ghost Pokemon without recovery is going to fall to two or three Fangs backed up with Hail and Poison damage, which is just plain awesome. Speaking of Poison, I put Toxic for the extra insurance against Pokémon like Latias and non-Rest Rotom, or in case I couldn't manage to lay TS with Tentacruel. Now that Tentacruel has Knock Off, I'm thinking of changing Toxic to Blizzard. Thoughts?

As strange as it may sound, I use Walrein as a cleaner of sorts. I usually bring him very late in the game, often as my last Pokémon. Opponent's reaction when going from 4-1 to 0-1 just because of inability to break Walrein - priceless.

I'm using 58 Spd EVs to out-speed 8 speed Metagross. The rest was pumped into Defense and HP for maximum physical durability.

Abomasnow (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 226 HP/32 Spd/252 SDef
Sassy nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Blizzard
- Focus Punch
- Leech Seed
- Substitute

Hail teams wouldn't have a right to exist without this guy. This Abomasnow excels at countering Water types, using them as a set-up fodder and SubSeeding them to death. The other reason why Aboma is such a great SubSeeder is STAB Blizzard, which eliminates Pokemon like Celebi, Roserade and Breloom, who usually wall this kind of sets. Focus Punch is mainly for Tyranitar, but it works on Magnezone, Blissey and Snorlax too.

Unless opposing Water types are giving me a lot of trouble, or I'm completely sure my opponent is not running Tyranitar, I try to not reveal him very quickly, usually around mid-late game. Plus, hail hinders most of my team somewhat, by removing Leftovers recovery.

32 Speed to outspeed min Speed base 55s (Machamp and Blissey). The rest was put into HP and Sp.Def to emphasize its Special Walling abilities.

Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP/156 Spd/102 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Lava Plume
- Protect
- Roar
- Torment

A slightly different take on Torment Heatran. This one is focused on supporting the team rather than stalling, but it's been working great so far. I would call this Pokemon a "glue", all thanks to its great resistances, phazing and scouting abilities and of course Torment. Torment + Protect ease the prediction so much that it's not even funny. People switch a lot when facing this thing, which makes Roar a very useful move to have. Lava Plume has a nice 30% burn chance that can sometimes come in handy (Gyarados switch-ins are a good example).

At first I was using Philip7086 original defensive spread, but then I found that severe lack of speed is killing me way too often, so I switched to a more speedy variant. 158 Spd puts me at 229 speed, which is enough to outspeed standard 208 Speed SubPunching Breloom.

Tentacruel (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP/50 Def/36 Spd/172 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Hydro Pump
- Knock Off (previously Ice Beam)

Tentacruel provides a very useful Fire and Fighting resistance, making it a great Infernape counter/check or however you would want to call it. Spinnning with her is quite difficult if opponent has Rotom-A on his/her side, but thanks to her Poison typing, Tenta can at least absorb the ever-dangerous Toxic Spikes from my field. All in all, Tentacruel is a great supporter and a very vital member of my team.

Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin are mandatory. Hydro Pump is used to hit Rotom switch-ins harder. Knock Off was suggested by -FL- and it really does work wonders, crippling some of my team biggest threats such as Rotom-A or Tricksters.

EVs are quite specific. 36 lets me beat Jolly TTars by two points. With 50 Def EVs, Special MixApe LO Close Combat fails to 2HKO Tenta even after Stealth Rock damage. The rest was dumped into HP/Sp.Def.

<-- no Moemon for this one ;/

Rotom-h @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/70 Def/188 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Overheat / Rest
- Will-o-wisp
- Sleep Talk

Fast and bulky Rotom. A little oven-ghost thing is a premier SpinBlocker and one of the most OUed Pokemon for a good reason - he's just that good at doing his job. Aside from SpinBlocking, I wanted it to 1. Counter Roserade leads 2. Kill Lucario quickly 3. Cripple Pursuiters. So I've ended up using a rather unusual mono-Sleep Talk set. Thunderbolt is my main STAB. Overheat, WoW and STalk are for aforementioned pokes. Rest over Will-o-wisp didn't serve Rotom very well, so now I'm going to put it over Overheat and see how it works.

With Timid nature and 188 Spd, Rotom beats Adamant Lucario by one point, which lets me kill him with Overheat before he hits me with Crunch. Provided I switch to ResTalk, I'm going to make Rotom more defensive. Any ideas on how to EV this thing or should I use standard spreadfrom the analysis?

Fun facts about this team:
- There is grand total of 0 Attack and Sp.Attack EVs
- However, each Pokemon has Speed EVs, even those that have a Speed reducing nature
- All of my Pokemon use custom EV spreads (= not taken straight from the analysis)
- All of them are also holding Leftovers

Main Threats

– very, VERY annoying if played right, especially TrickScarf and RestTalk variants. Blocks my spins cold, and hits 4/6 of my team for super effective damage. I really have no counter for this thing – sure, Swampert can wall it, but it can’t do much in return.

– if Rotom goes down and this thing pulls off a Swords Dance, it’s gg.

– not that hard to wall as I have Abomasnow, but blocking it’s spin isn’t exactly the easiest thing to do…

- MysticGar can be walled by Tentacruel, but a set of Shadow Ball/Thunderbolt/Focus Blast/filler can really tear my team apart.

Thanks for reading my RMT. Now, rate away!

Changes:

Test ScarfAboma instead of my current set <- didn't perform as well i excepted
Test Roar instead of HP Electric on Swampert <- works nicely, but I'm still worried about TauntGyara. Leaving it for futher testing.
Test Rest instead of Will-o-wisp on Rotom-h <- I missed Will-o-wisp very much, and Sleep Talk always seemed to pick Rest at the worst times. Going to test it over Overheat.
Test Knock Off instead of Ice Beam on Tentacruel <- great addition, helps with combating Rotom-A and Tricksters that threaten my team a lot.

 

[Snorlaxe]

Hey, this is a cool team, I'm a big fan of Hail stall and I was sad when Platinum brought it down. However this is a well put together team, so props to you for that. First off, I suggest using Roar over HP Electric on Swampert. While HP Electric is useful for hitting Gyarados, Roar is simpler, allowing you to just phaze out Gyarados before it even gets a chance to start Dragon Dancing and damaging your team. Also, Roar is helpful for overall team support, phazing statuppers, and scouting the opponent's team while getting Stealth Rock damage on their Pokemon.

I see this team having trouble with MixMence and the less common MixNite; both can do huge amounts of damage to this team thanks to powerful Fire Blasts and STAB Draco Meteors. An easy way to fix this problem is to change Abamosnow to a Choice Scarf variant; with a Scarf, Abamasnow reaches a respectable speed stat of 360, allowing him to outspeed Gengar, Salamence, and other common threats. I suggest using a spread of 140 Atk / 116 SpA / 252 Spe, a Hasty nature, and a set of Blizzard, Wood Hammer, Earthquake, and Hidden Power Fire. This Abamasnow also excells at taking down cocky Scizor who are rather problamatic to this team; they more than likely U-turn, while you will outspeed and OHKO with Hidden Power Fire (factoring in Stealth Rock damage). This also provides a check to Lucario; most won't expect Abamasnow to outspeed them, so they Close Combat, while you outspeed and OHKO with Earthquake.

Thats about all I have for you, this is a solidly built team with no obvious weaknesses. Hope I helped, and good luck with hail! =)

 

[blizzcano320]

I agree about the HP Electric and Roar thing that Snorlaxe said.
Also, mono-Sleep Talk can be hurtful. You may want to substitute will-o-wisp for Rest. You keep 2 attacks and can actually heal. Plus, it seems better because this is stall. It depends on how much success you have had with Roserade leads and how much the average physical attacker hurts you.

I love the stall.
I love the originality.
Great job.

 

[Redtype]

Oh, I like your ScarfAboma concept very much... it's like a Lucario/Scizor check and Dragon counter in one! Thanks for a great idea, I'll definetely try it.

Hm, I forgot to add that HP Elec also lets me beat Taunt Gyaradoses (after SR) as well, but those are quite rare anyways so I will test Roar too.

Thanks for the great rate!

 

[-FL-]

Hail teams are always nice to see, and the way you take care of common threats is interesting, so I will try to add some things you may consider.

Mainly, I don't think Tentacruel needs Ice Beam. You already have an Ice attack on Swampert and Abomasnow, which is more than enough. I've used Knock Off and it works wonders with Hail. Common checks of Tentacruel like Blissey, Starmie, Latias and Rotom-W get their item zapped and then the snow starts to kill them slowly. On the other hand, if you are facing an offensive team and you manage to take Salamence's or Gyarados' Life Orb away, they would be no problem to your Swampert.

I agree with the suggestion of replacing WoW for Rest. Lucario is a monster and he could catch your Rotom-H off-guard with a SE Crunch. You want to keep him alive as much time as posible. Tyranitar could then be a trouble because of Pursuit, so make sure it isn't there or else be prepared to double switch to Swampert.

Happy Hail stalling

 

[Redtype]

I agree about the HP Electric and Roar thing that Snorlaxe said.
Also, mono-Sleep Talk can be hurtful. You may want to substitute will-o-wisp for Rest. You keep 2 attacks and can actually heal. Plus, it seems better because this is stall. It depends on how much success you have had with Roserade leads and how much the average physical attacker hurts you.

I love the stall.
I love the originality.
Great job.

Thank you! The reason I'm running mono-Sleep Talk is that I wanted Rotom to do all the things I mentioned in the OP at once, but also because I've always had very bad luck with Rest-Talk before. Or maybe I just wasn't using it right... ok, I'll try Rest instead of WoW and see how it does.

 

[CTronaldo]

I suggest you use a Dusknoir instead of Rotom-H. The reason is that Dusknoir learns Brick Break.

heres my set anyway...

Dusknoir @ Liechi berry

Thunder Punch/Brick Break

Pain Split

Will'O'Wisp

Shadow Sneak

EV spread:
Hp: 0
Attack:4
Defense:252
Special Attack: 0
Special Defense:252
Speed: 0

Relaxed Nature


I know all you guys are thinking this set is massively screwed up, but its not. even the EV spread looks absurd, but its not. Dusknoir comes in to completely wall the opponents attacks, and can fire off a will'o'wisp if necessary. if you predict this set right, it can screw up many of your opponent's attacks. Liechi berry looks retarded on this set... I know... but whenever Dusknoir gets down really low(and trust me, this dusknoir has NEVER been OHKOed) the Liechi kicks in and makes Shadow Sneak somewhat more helpful. Shadow Sneak provides some good last resort damage and some times comes handy to KO focus sash'ers. pain split is a no brainer, and it can really stump opponents when they think they got you. Then again, it is also an amazing spin blocker, to replace Rotom-H. The only problem i see here is that it will not be able to KO Scizor like Rotom-H can, though Dusknoir can fare well against Tyranitar with brick break, usually a OHKO, and is very helpful to collapse screens... its only your opinion though... __________________

 

[Snorlaxe]

No, I don't think that set will do at all for this team. The whole purpose of a Spin Blocker is to last a while and stall / support the team...while Dusknoir is no doubt a cool Pokemon, he really isn't the right choice for this team; the main reason to use Rotom-H over Dusknoir is because of his ability to OHKO-2HKO all of the common OU Rapid Spinners such as Starmie, Tentacruel, and Foretress. Using Dusknoir greatly lowers the team's utility and it kind of reduces the purpose of having a spin blocker. Redtype's reasoning behind using Rotom-H is to support and bulky, but never to sweep. Also, the power behind a Leichi boosted Shadow Sneak is still very little, not even doing 60% to a Pokemon as frail as Mixed Infernape. Rotom can do a better job at luring out threatening Pokemon for the team as well (namely Tyranitar), due to it commonly running Choice sets.

 

[Redtype]

CTronaldo - thanks for your input, but I'm happy with Rotom-h right now. You mentioned how Dusknoir can beat Tyranitar, but I think Rotom still does it better. With your current spread (which to be honest looks very bad) Brick Break cannot OHKO any Tyranitar, who switches in on anything bar WoW, outspeeds and OHKOes Dusky with CB Crunch or Pursuit. It can't really do the same to Rotom, who hits it with Will-o-wisp before it Crunches/Pursuits it.

Anyway, I've tested some of your ideas, and I must say i'm quite impressed with Knock Off Tentacruel. Thanks to it I actually managed to stall out a defensive Rotom with Walrein (i couldn't Toxic because he would have killed me in a next turn), which have never happened before.

ScarfAboma didn't work as well as I have excepted. Durability is the main issue i have with this set. I could usually work around the Stealth Rock weakness with Leech Seed and Leftovers when I was using my old defensive Aboma, but this wasn't the case with a Scarfer, who lost Hp extremely quickly due to Wood Hammer recoil and SR damage stacking on. I also couldn't hold myself from switching her rather early in the game, as a prospect of a "free" revenge kill was too tempting to make me keep her hidden, although I realize it's not an issue coming from the set itself.

I must admit however that mindgames with HP Fire/Earthquake and Trick "absorbtion" were pretty cool :)

Roar Swampert works fine, but i'm still not sure how would my team fare if i were to face a Taunt Gyarados. I'm going to test it a bit more.

Next, ResTalk Rotom. I still have no luck with these kind of sets. Sleep Talk always seemed to pick Rest at the worst moment... not to mention that the lack of Will-o-wisp made it a Tyranitar lunch more often than not, especially when it came after Rotom killed something on the opponents team. I'm going to test Rest over Overheat now and see how it works.

I've edited the sets in the OP, and expanded some of the descriptions. I'm still looking for your ideas, so keep posting!