Rethinking Stall

[Mailman]

At a Glance

Inspiration
I noticed most of my successful teams were pure offense so i decided to build a team that complemented each others weakness' well.

Rotom-C @ Choice Scarf
Modest 252SpA 252Spe 4HP
Levitate
--Leaf Storm
--Shadow Ball
--Thunderbolt
--Trick
Why Rotom-C
Rotom-C gives me a good lead and a spin blocker in one Pokémon. It also hurts in the further late game allowing me to take further advantage. It's also a great revenge killer and can kill a +1 speed Gyrados.
Why it's moves
Leaf Storm: Leaf Storm is there because it hits Hippowdon and Swampert some common leads and it gets you a good move to use
Shadow Ball: STAB hits hard and has pretty good coverage
Thunderbolt: The more powerful STAB and can revenge kill Gyra
Trick: It ruins other walls

Uxie @ Leftovers
Impish 252HP 252Def 4SpD
Levitate
--Yawn
--Stealth Rock
--Protect
--U-turn
Why Uxie
Well Uxie is a very Bulky version of azelf that can lay down Stealth Rock and Phaze with Yawn. It also causes a lot of switches and it's defense is nothing to be ashamed of. Being Immune to ground also helps out incredibly as it absorbs Earthquakes that heatran Draws as well as Some fighting moves.
It can get healed by Blissey's Wish and Celebi's Leech Seed as well and with the aid of protect poisoning does more damage to the oposing foe.
Why it's moves
Yawn: This move is really underrated it causes switches and racks up the minimum but still sweet Stealth Rock Damage
Stealth Rock: Pretty self explanatory it wears Pokemon down
Protect: Makes yawn take immediate effect (more less), gets leech seed health recovery plus leftovers and racks up extra Toxic damage
U-Turn: Sometimes yawn will cause switches so you U-turn to the appropriate counter

Celebi @ Leftovers
Timid 252HP 176Spe 80SpA
Natural Cure
--Leech Seed
--Recover
--Substitute
--Psychic
Why Celebi
This has to be the most annoying Pokemon in the game Slowly draining the oponents HP and just when you think it's dead it recovers. Psychic is there to atack. It also gets the amazing 101 HP subs that makes many Pokemon jealous and makes it a pretty good switch in to Celbi. With this and Toxic the oponent gets a slow painful death. He complements heatran as heatran complements him.
Why it's moves
Leech Seed: Standard for the subseeder
Recover: Want it to last longer
Substitute: Standard for the subseeder
Psychic: Good ol' STAB

Heatran @ Wise Glasses
Timid 4HP 252Spe 252SpA
Flash Fire
--Substitute
--Fire Blast
--Earthpower
--Toxic
Why Heatran
Heatran and Celebi complement each other so well it's like gamefreak decided that Celebi wasn't dominant enough they had to make it's perfect pair. Substitute is great as it causes switches and allows me to toxic or hit something with a move and we can keep rinsing and repeating to celebi with toxic and Leech Seed. The held Item is wise glasses because once the opponent sees leftovers he knows I'm not much of a threat and doesn't fall for the scarf thing but with wise glasses if it has no leftovers it must be choiced right, wrong and the sub is up.
Why it's moves
Substitute: When something switches out and this is behind a sub it ruins something
Fire Blast: STAB
Earthpower: 100% accurate and it complements well
Toxic: Ruins the bulky waters that think they can switch in

Blissey @ Leftovers
Calm 252Def 80HP 176SpD
Natural Cure
--Wish
--Protect
--Toxic
--Flamethrower
Why Blissey
This originally used to be a Vaporeon, but I had a tremendous weakness Gengar and Alakazam so Blissey it was since it got Wish plus Protect and I can lay off toxic. I'm thinking of replacing Flamethrower with thunderbolt to hit heatran but it's no rush.
Why it's moves
Wish: Recovery move that heals teammates
Protect: Stalls out toxic damage and scouts choiced Pokemon
Toxic: It poisons something crucial to this team
Flamethrower: Hits Steals

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Calm 252HP 120Def 136SpD
Liquid Ooze
--Surf
--Knock Off
--Toxic Spikes
--Rapid Spin
Why Tentacruel
I replaced forretress with this beacause it can hit harder and absorbs toxic spikes in one shot instead of needing to spin in that turn. It does what it does better than the rest and that is rapid spining and setting up Spikes and stalling.
Why it's moves
Surf: STAB
Knock Off: Knocks off the held Item (annoying)
Toxic Spikes: again the team works best when other Pokemon slowly looses HP
Rapid Spin: No more hazards

​

 

[d2m]

Put Spikes on Foretress, they stay down longer (Tentacruel actually has to spin rather than just come in) and you have Toxic on several of your pokes already.

Speaking of spin, you have no blocker. You need a ghost type to prevent a spinner from getting rid of all your entry hazards, because they are the bread and butter of stall damage.

Jirachi isn't doing all too much for this team, sure he can set up with sub/cm but any good team is going to be able to do something about it, whether it be set up on you, force you out, or Encore/Taunt you. Replace it with a Rotom if you want a sub stat upper:

Rotom-(anything)@Leftovers
252 HP/Split the rest between Def and SpA, depending on how you want to use him

-Substitute
-Charge Beam
-Shadow Ball
-(Special attack, I would go with h and Overheat)

 

[wavedash]

Toxic on Heatran seems like a waste of a moveslot. It's not using your 252 SpAtk EVs in any way, and you're not going to be toxic stalling. HP Ice hits Salamence who might be trying to Fire Blast your Celebi.

Payback on Forretress hits Rotom and Gengar.

 

[Futility]

If other pokes setting up on Blissey is what's getting you down, just replace Toxic with Thunder Wave. You already have Heatran using Toxic which is perfect because Bulky Waters (the ones that love switching into Heatran) are ruined by Toxic. That leaves Blissey free to Thunder Wave and cripple opposing set-up sweepers. For your last move, I would use Seismic Toss, since Forretress can handle Gengar well enough and with Flamethrower, Raikou is going to lol at Blissey and set up on her all day long.

I'm also a bit uncomfortable with your lead. It certainly sets up Stealth Rocks, alright, but it can't do anything to opposing pokemon, and leads with Taunt ruin Uxie. There was an Anti-Lead Trickspecs Rotom-C which I think would be excellent for your team, since it beats a lot of the common leads and can ruin a wall with Trick once its done (not to mention that even after it tricked its item it still makes a perfectly good spin-blocker), you may want to try it out. Of course, if you do this, then you need someone on your team to use Stealth Rocks, and I think Forretress can fit the bill just fine. Just replace Toxic Spikes (which aren't very useful in OU and the ones who are crippled by it are those that like to switch into Heatran) with Stealth Rock and you have yourself a sturdy supporter. Oh, and Payback on Forretress, make it happen.

*EDIT: Found the Rotom-C lead, all credit goes to Raikaria*

This is a set that I have used with quite some sucess, and have calculations to back up it's effectiveness.


[SET]
name: Specs Lead
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Trick
item: Choice Specs
nature: Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

These days, an Anti-lead is normally defined as something that stops Stealth Rock from being put up. However, a very important thing in today's metagame is momentum. If you can score a 6-5 advantage early on, without taking much damage, you're in a good position. This Rotom set can 2HKO almost every single common lead in the game, the only leads it has trouble with being Iron Head using Jirachi (While Rotom does resist this move), and + Speed nature Heatran, as well as Infernape who choose not to set up Stealth Rock on the first turn. Azelf are potentual issues, should they be using Psychic, and elect to use that over setting up Stealth Rock on the first turn. On top of that, Rotom-C is immune to the suicide lead's weapon of choice, Explosion, as well as Infernape's Fake Out. Many opponents will simply leave their lead in, using their tried-and-tested plan of Stealth Rock, Taunt, and Explosion, but Rotom-C completely ruins this strategy.

Examples of the damage this set does to common leads:


Thunderbolt vs: 252/0 Metagross: 66.76% - 78.57%
Thunderbolt vs: 4/0 Azelf: 192.72% - 226.44%
Leaf Storm vs: 240/0 Swampert: 237.16% - 279.05%
Jirachi: Thunderbolt = 58.53% - 68.77%
Thunderbolt vs: 60/0 Jirachi: 58.53% - 68.77%
Thunderbolt vs: 4/0 Aerodactyl: 186.75% - 219.54%
Thunderbolt vs: 0/0 Infernape: 100.34% - 118.09%
Leaf Storm vs: 252/80 Hippowodon: 110.24% - 129.76%
Thunderbolt vs: 252/92 Bronzong: 53.85% - 63.31%
Leaf Storm vs: 240/184 Tyranitar: 91.27% - 107.23%
Thunderbolt vs: 4/0 Heatran: 65.43% - 77.16%
Shadow Ball vs: 4/0 Abomasnow: 66.98% - 78.82%


The moveset is rather a given, considering most of the suicide leads tend to be frail, and is actually has universal coverage amoung the top 10 leads, hitting them all for neutral damage at worst. Choice Specs and Modest are both needed to get some of the OHKO, notably, the possible OHKO on Tyranitar with Leaf Storm, ensuring a OHKO on Hippowodon, and the 2HKO on standard Bronzong and Jirachi. Trick is there for later in the game, as Rotom-C often needs to be pulled out after it's first KO, with Trick being useful for crippling the likes of Blissey, and ridding yourself of the choice restriction.

The EVs are given, on almost any choice set. Max speed is needed to ensure some of the pokemon being outsped, in case they have a Speed+ Nature, and to ensure to outrun neutral nature Heatrans. Max Special Attack is to pack the most punch possible, and is needed, as mentioned before. The 4 HP points are mainly filler, but the best place for them to go.

The key thing about this Anti-Lead is, that it can later in the game return, and fufill the role of the Choice, Three Attacks set mentiond elsewhere in the analysis, many other leads cannot, due to often being KO'ed.

While very strong, this Anti-Lead set does have faults. Firstly, many leads will still get up rocks, unless they choose to attack, or Taunt, the exceptions being Swampert, Hippowodon, and sometimes Tyranitar. There is also the risk of Leaf Storm missing. Due to these leads getting up rocks, they have achived half their objective (The other being your pokemon being KO'ed). Ninjask can also be a pain if it Baton Passes, as Rotom cannot to much to stop it, especially the sets that run Protect, as this stops Trick. To counteract these weaknesses, it is suggested that you use a Rapid Spinner on your team alongside this Rotom. Tentacruel is a decent choice, as it does not share any weaknesses with Rotom, while it also allows Rotom to switch back in on a Ground or Electric type attack. Setting up Toxic Spikes is also a bonus, as is the possible Light Screen, or using it offensivly. Starmie is another good choice, if your team is more offensive, but shares both the Dark and Ghost weaknesses of Rotom, so it is not suggested as strongly. Putting a phazer on your team is a good possibility, in case of Ninjask, but Baton Pass teams are rather rare. Finally, due to the fact that you do not have Stealth Rocks up yourself, a pokemon such as Gliscor, who is bulky, but also capable of attacking, like Rotom and Tentacruel, is a good idea. In general, a team with a Rotom lead should focus on bulky offense, due to Rotom's own properties, and the fact that it can re-enter mid game.

 

[Mailman]

Ive made some changes my lead is now the rotom-c anti lead with trick and I replaced jirachi with the same Uxie Set.
Also I've replaced Forretress with Tentacruel because it absorbs toxic spikes and counters ape


@ Futility
Blissey just been working fine, just thanks for the rotom set it's been working fine but I'm using a scarf I'll test out specs later

@ d2m thanks for telling me who to replace


I'll update how my team looks soon

 

[Force Majeure]

I see a few problems but none of them are particularly glaring.

The first problem I see on your team is that you are seriously lacking a shuffler. One of the best parts of stall is phazing away your opponent's precious stat-up sweeper and inflicting entry hazard damage on their incoming poke, whatever it might be. Some people use Skarmory, others use Vaporeon, but my particular favorite is Hippowdon. Specifically this Hippowdon:

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Impish Nature
EVs: 176 HP/84 Def/248 SpD
-Earthquake
-Stockpile
-Slack Off
-Roar

It really is a monster to take down, and after one Stockpile, Celebi definitely won't be doing more than 40% to you with Grass Knot. The same is true of most Grass Knot users. EQ allows you to take out Tyranitar and does good damage to Metagross, who can't really do anything to you in return. Stat-up sweepers (especially special ones) are likely to come into this set, but they will be very disappointed as the standard CM Suicune can only manage ~40% with an unboosted Surf. If they start to stat-up, you phaze, hopefully inflicting Toxic on the switch-in.

I also have a slight problem with Rotom as an anti-lead since Rotom can serve much more effectively elsewhere. The Rotom formes are designed to stall, and I've had a great deal of success with Rotom because it's very bulky and more importantly it can burn Scizor and Lucario, who both take little from Stealth Rock and are immune to Toxic and Sandstream. So I'd suggest a bulkier build for your Rotom as well as giving it a more support moveset with Will O Wisp.

 

[swinub]

I would make Rotom Timid to be able to outspeed Scartran, but your team doesn't really seem to have a problem with Heatran thanks to Blissey and Tentacruel. Timid Rotom also allows you to outspeed Jolly Max Speed Gyarados after a Dragon Dance, while Modest does not, but I don't know how many Jolly Gyarados' you run into.

Also, I feel as though Uxie could be replaced with Swampert. They can fill the same role while lowering your Dark/Ghost weakness which is sitting at 3 pokemon right now. Just wish Swampert got U-turn, lol.

 

[d2m]

Put Uxie in the lead slot over Rotom. Rotom is great, but showing your opponent you have a scarfed Rotom right off the bat isn't good strategy.

I'd also recommend Grass Knot over Psychic for Celebi's attack. Celebi is just asking Tyranitar to come in (to Pursuit it), and he's immune to it.

 

[Raikaria]

The Rotom-C may be a good anti-lead, but, to function correctly, it NEEDS Specs for most of it's 2HKO's.

Anti-Leads are also less important in stall teams. However, a specs pokemon on a defensive team is generally a poor idea.

As a result, I would actually suggest that you use your Uxie as a lead, especially as Protect can be used against predicted explosions from Azelf/Metagross/Bronzong/Heatran, and use a Scarfed Rotom-H as a Spin-Blocker, and revenge killer for both +1 'Dos, and Lucario (Scarfed Rotom-H is possibly the best counter for SD Lucario)

I used a Protect Swampert lead a while ago, with SR, Ice Beam, Earthquake, and Protect, and the coverage hits everything except Bronzong and Shedinja for neutral. Protect worked wonders.

Can't quite belive I'm telling someone to not use my anti-lead...

 

[Mailman]

thanks to everyone for the support into making this team better

@ChristovaOnIce: Hippowdon sounds great but who do I replace him with Maybe Uxie and make Rotom a supporter

@D2M: I might make Rotom a supporter but thanks anyways.

@Swinub: Thank You for reminding me of that weakness. Hippowdon makes so much sense now

@Raikara: Thanks for suggestion but I'm getting Hippowdon

 

[swinub]

Hipowdon's sandstorm hits 4 of your pokemon (assuming you replace Uxie)

That seems like it could be problematic.

 

[Mailman]

Hipowdon's sandstorm hits 4 of your pokemon (assuming you replace Uxie)

That seems like it could be problematic.

I'm pretty much done with this team. I replaced Uxie with Skarm and made my lead a Hippowdon and have a support Rotom-H. It's basically just like Obi's stall team not that I wanted to copy it but it I just tried to make it better and it ended like that.
also heatran is gone

Thanks for the help everyone.

Oh and any mod please lock this