return of the gimmicks! at least possibly competitive ones. . .

harle1012000

I tried to find the last thread, but my searches brought nothing so I decided to reopen the book on usable gimmick movesets. Here's one I though up. . .

Alakazam*Focus Sash
Counter (Emerald Tutor)
Trick/Knock Off
Energy Ball/Grass Rope/Shadow Ball/Focus Bomb
Psychic

The idea is to lead with this poke and hope your opponent hits hard first. Counter is a nice surprise on Weaviles, T-tars, Aeros, and basically any opponent that decides it can Pursuit or outspeed for the KO against weak defense Zam. If no Sandstorm is in play and you survive until the next turn, Knock Off/Trick the foe or attack with a powerful attack. Energy Ball/Grass Rope is ideal for Gyrados/Swampert starters (Energy Ball might be better if you fear Manaphy). Of course if the foe is 'sashed to (ex: Focus Sash Weavile. . .not common though i think), you're as good as countered.
 
dammit! i try and be original and it's already been done. . .damn. . .sorry. . .well I'll be back with another gimmick MS. . .until then anyone can feel free to contribute *limps away a broken man*
 
Honchkrow@Scope Lense
Super Luck
-Night Slash
-Drill Peck//Aerial Ace
-Roost
-???
Workable? Basically you want to use Scope Lense and Super Luck with Dark Slash's high critical hit rate to hit for a bunch of supers on an already attack oriented pokemon.
 
This one isn't that gimmicky (i.e. it's actually useful), but nonetheless I haven't seen it listed anywhere:

Froslass @ Choice Scarf
Hasty / / Snow Cloak
204 Atk/ 252 SpAtk/ 52 Spd
Destiny Bond
Shadow Ball
Ice Beam
Wake-up Slap

Roles: Potent Lead, Revenge Killer, Pseudo-Exploder.

Creator Notes: With a Choice Scarf, Froslass hits 442 Speed, more than enough to outspeed Jolly, max Speed Weavile variants, and OHKO even 40 HP variants with Wake-up Slap (247 Atk). If Tyranitar switches in it gets 2KOed with Wake-up Slap. Anything 4x weak to Ice Beam (Salamence, Garchomp, Dragonite, Flygon) gets OHKOed. Additionally, Shadow Ball has a chance to OHKO min HP min SpDef Gengar.

Once Froslass is finished jumping in and out of play and revenge killing, it can take one for the team and Destiny Bond any of the wide assortment of sweepers, and is especially good at taking down Nasty Plotters or Sword Dancers that love to set up and sweep. Man, I wish I could've written the analysis so I could've added that set ;]
 
Treedweller said:
This one isn't that gimmicky (i.e. it's actually useful), but nonetheless I haven't seen it listed anywhere:

Froslass @ Choice Scarf
Hasty / / Snow Cloak
204 Atk/ 252 SpAtk/ 52 Spd
Destiny Bond
Shadow Ball
Ice Beam
Wake-up Slap

Roles: Potent Lead, Revenge Killer, Pseudo-Exploder.

Creator Notes: With a Choice Scarf, Froslass hits 442 Speed, more than enough to outspeed Jolly, max Speed Weavile variants, and OHKO even 40 HP variants with Wake-up Slap (247 Atk). If Tyranitar switches in it gets 2KOed with Wake-up Slap. Anything 4x weak to Ice Beam (Salamence, Garchomp, Dragonite, Flygon) gets OHKOed. Additionally, Shadow Ball has a chance to OHKO min HP min SpDef Gengar.

Once Froslass is finished jumping in and out of play and revenge killing, it can take one for the team and Destiny Bond any of the wide assortment of sweepers, and is especially good at taking down Nasty Plotters or Sword Dancers that love to set up and sweep. Man, I wish I could've written the analysis so I could've added that set ;]
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That's interesting, and looks like it'd actually be useful ;) Every time I look at Froslass, I wonder why couldn't you be GOOD? That's a pretty snazzy set though :)
 
Thanks, hehe.

Took me a while to think up, but when I stared at Froslass' Serebi entry long enough, it dawned on me, and it was just a matter of seeing if Froslass could do what I wanted it to. After a long time with Metalkid's damage calculator, I figured out it makes a very snazzy lead with the correct EV spread, and doesn't necessarily need an element of surprise to be successful either.
 
Treedweller said:
Thanks, hehe.

Took me a while to think up, but when I stared at Froslass' Serebi entry long enough, it dawned on me, and it was just a matter of seeing if Froslass could do what I wanted it to. After a long time with Metalkid's damage calculator, I figured out it makes a very snazzy lead with the correct EV spread, and doesn't necessarily need an element of surprise to be successful either.
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That's really cool, and i'm glad you could find a use for it. If it's alright, I might like to try this set myself in the future (once my current breeding/training projects are finished).

Also, I was doing an RMT for a fellow on GameFAQs last night, and I think I must have used the word 'snazzy' about 50 times :P
 
Uh, you don't have to ask my permission. No one has the intellectual rights over a pokemon's moveset, so feel free to use that exact Froslass if you'd like. Just remember that all those calculations are assuming a max Attack, Special Attack, and Speed IV, so breed for 31's accordingly.
 
Treedweller said:
Uh, you don't have to ask my permission. No one has the intellectual rights over a pokemon's moveset, so feel free to use that exact Froslass if you'd like. Just remember that all those calculations are assuming a max Attack, Special Attack, and Speed IV, so breed for 31's accordingly.
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Even so, it is something you've created, and I would want you to be credited for creating it, regardless of wether or not you have intellectual rights over it ;) If you had seen my re-rolling and breeding exploits over the last few days, you would know that I am a very patient man ;)
 
Primeape @ Life Orb
Hasty/Naive, Vital Spirit
Close Combat
Stone Edge
U-turn
Overheat

I love SkarmBliss killers. This one can kill Skarm with Overheat if it switches into a Close Combat even with no spa EVs. The only problem is getting it in, so Vital Spirit helps. Why not just use Infernape, you ask? Because barely anyone would ever expect Overheat on Primeape.

Primeape can't really switch in on Skarmory - drill peck hurts, plus you'll give away the surprise - so you're better off making your opponent think that Skarmory is a safe switch in.

It would be much better if Primeape learned some kind of decent dark or ghost move, but hey. It's Primeape.
 
Lucario@Choice scarf
(-Sdef +Spd nature, forgot which one)
252 speed, rest mixed between attack and Spatk
-Me first
-Stone edge
-HP Grass
-Close combat

Kills starters. Hard. Me first can kill stuff like SpecsMence. HP Grass for Swampert. CC for stuff like Tyranitar, Stone edge for Yanmega.
 
255 Spd is a waste, 252 Spd is the most speed you'll ever need since Pokemon games always round down and 4 EVs is 1 stat point.

I'd really like newer users just to stray away from posting sets, even gimmick ones. They either end up about the same as standard sets or just plain blow dick. So yeah do it at your own risk.
 
It's still not a great start against SpecsMence because SpecsMence will open with Flamethrower or Fire Blast. Since he's got resistance and Specs, he'll be doing 3x damage with it and you'll only do .75x. HP Grass might OHKO Swampert, but I'm not in the mood to damage calc the whole thing out. Close Combat works well on T-Tar, but I've never seen Yanmega lead. I've seen Ninjask lead, and Ninjask will smartly Sub/Protect the Stone Edges for a turn or two before it passes.

In the end, Lucario is a sweeper. Sweepers generally shouldn't lead. Instead you should use something that can setup your team's strategy or disrupt your enemy's strategy in ways other than plain damage.
 
X-Codes said:
It's still not a great start against SpecsMence because SpecsMence will open with Flamethrower or Fire Blast. Since he's got resistance and Specs, he'll be doing 3x damage with it and you'll only do .75x. HP Grass might OHKO Swampert, but I'm not in the mood to damage calc the whole thing out. Close Combat works well on T-Tar, but I've never seen Yanmega lead. I've seen Ninjask lead, and Ninjask will smartly Sub/Protect the Stone Edges for a turn or two before it passes.

In the end, Lucario is a sweeper. Sweepers generally shouldn't lead. Instead you should use something that can setup your team's strategy or disrupt your enemy's strategy in ways other than plain damage.
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I actually realised only after I posted. My bad.
 
One I favor is a rip-off from Typhlosion.

Wailord @ Choice Scarf
- Water Spout
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Selfdestruct (Or does it get explosion)

Basically, you send it in to revenge kill. Water spout hurts like heck. Surf and Ice Beam can hurt stuff later on, if the Lord is dented. Selfdestruct is just cool, and its not like any Rock/Steel type is gonna switch in on Wailord anytime soon anyway.
 
I think it gets Explosion.

This is one of the times where I wish Flygon got Anticipate. Scarfgon double-STAB Draco Meteor says gg Specsmence.
 
ok. . .here's another one. Hopefully, I didn't inadvertedly copy another MS. If I do, I'm gonna start doing some massive research around the analysis threads:

Forretress*Occa Berry
Subsitute
Nature Power
Flail/Explosion/Theif
Payback/Revenge/Stealth Rocks

Strategy: The false Forretress, this forretress tries to trick it's foes into coming in and setting in on them. Occa Berry + Nature Power gives to a 80 power Fire physical move that hits Magneton and Heracross. If you subsitute on the switch to a Gyrados, flail and then sub again and again. Eventually it will get to the point where he will Waterfall, destroy your sub, and then eat a 200 power flail. Regardless, Sub is good on the 1st turn Forry is out to see what your opponent is going to bring in and try and counter you and works well with Revenge and Payback (see down). Explosion is another option of course and might be the better one. Payback and Revenge work better with Subsitute, because if I remember correctly hitting a subsitute counts as you getting hit sorta (sorta like how Anger Nerve can be activated by crithaxing a sub) so you get something to hit ghosts or norms better. Theif is only an option if you feel you wasted Nature Power or really want to take your foe's item.
 
I was bored,I don't claim to be expert,but people are posting i guess for some feedback,I am give my feedback on the sets

Forretress*Occa Berry
Subsitute
Nature Power
Flail/Explosion/Theif
Payback/Revenge/Stealth Rocks


a.Why would somebody bring heracross in on Fortress to be exploded on?
b.A lot of Gyarados have taunt
c. Does NP fire ohko Magnezone because if not,Maggy breaks sub with hp fire and you know what happens the next turn.

Verdict: Not a Good Gimmick


Wailord @ Choice Scarf
- Water Spout
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Selfdestruct (Or does it get explosion)

With "amazing" 360 speed(if my math is right),and 272 probably in special attack it ain't exactly scary.But considering Wailord really does not doing anything well and sheer surprise of wailord out speeding salamence is kinda cool.

It gets Selfdestruct from XD

Verdict: Good gimmick

Froslass @ Choice Scarf
Hasty / / Snow Cloak
204 Atk/ 252 SpAtk/ 52 Spd
Destiny Bond
Shadow Ball
Ice Beam
Wake-up Slap

204 in attack for move,that works only if other person sleep seems like a waste.If you could replace wake up slap,with spikes,Hp fighting or thunderbolt and redistribute those stats to something more useful,Then it would be same thing as the analysis except with cscarf over cspecs.

Verdict: Has Potential, but right now it is an Ok Gimmick.

Lucario@Choice scarf
(-Sdef +Spd nature, forgot which one)
252 speed, rest mixed between attack and Spatk
-Me first
-Stone edge
-HP Grass
-Close combat

The third thing in row with cscarf,Sticking choice scarf on something doesn't make it a gimmick.Has 459 speed(If my math is right) and some weird mix special attacking and attacking evs.It has some surprise factor to it.Me personally i don't like the split,I think you are better off running away from gyarados and going fully special.You could go aura sphere,hp grass,Me first, and your choice off dark pulse,dragon pulse, psychic and shadow ball and be more effective.

Verdict: Not a good Gimmick

Primeape @ Life Orb
Hasty/Naive, Vital Spirit
Close Combat
Stone Edge
U-turn
Overheat

I am not sure if you can call this set a gimmick,I am pretty sure if get a standard set it will look alot like this.I am guess hasty and naive is to avoid taking away from its special attack.

Verdict:Good Gimmick if you can call it a gimmick
 
Skarmory @ Leftovers
252 HP/whatever (some attk, some def, some speed)
Swords Dance/Curse
Roost
Drill Peck
Rock Slide/Night Slash/Steel Wing

...yeah. The EVs can make for more power or bulkyness as you want. Same with SD/Curse.

EDIT: Luck, Wake-Up Slap always works. It just doubles power if the foe is asleep.
 
Treedweller]Froslass @ Choice Scarf Hasty / / Snow Cloak 204 Atk/ 252 SpAtk/ 52 Spd Destiny Bond Shadow Ball Ice Beam Wake-up Slap Roles: Potent Lead said:
Froslass @ Choice Scarf
Hasty / / Snow Cloak
204 Atk/ 252 SpAtk/ 52 Spd
Destiny Bond
Shadow Ball
Ice Beam
Wake-up Slap

204 in attack for move,that works only if other person sleep seems like a waste.If you could replace wake up slap,with spikes,Hp fighting or thunderbolt and redistribute those stats to something more useful,Then it would be same thing as the analysis except with cscarf over cspecs.

Verdict: Has Potential, but right now it is an Ok Gimmick.
Click to expand...

Wake-up Slap still works when the target is awake, it just doubles in power when the target is asleep. I'd probably switch to HP Fighting if I wanted to kill Weavile/Tyranitar anyway though. You could probably even get away with like Modest/252 SpA and like 56 Speed EVs to outrun Adamant Scarf Heracross if you wanted to revenge kill it or whatever and have a fairly substantial amount of EVs remaining to bulk up your HP a bit if you drop the physical move there, as well as preventing yourself from being forced into a nature that lowers your defenses.

Anyway it's pretty basic Choice Scarf usage but this would actually work fairly well I think which is always a plus.
 
Synre said:
Wake-up Slap still works when the target is awake, it just doubles in power when the target is asleep. I'd probably switch to HP Fighting if I wanted to kill Weavile/Tyranitar anyway though. You could probably even get away with like Modest/252 SpA and like 56 Speed EVs to outrun Adamant Scarf Heracross if you wanted to revenge kill it or whatever and have a fairly substantial amount of EVs remaining to bulk up your HP a bit if you drop the physical move there, as well as preventing yourself from being forced into a nature that lowers your defenses.

Anyway it's pretty basic Choice Scarf usage but this would actually work fairly well I think which is always a plus.
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I ran the calculations, and HP Fighting even with Modest and max special attack doesn't OHKO 40 HP Weavile variants, because its special defense is considerably higher than its physcial defense; and if you can't OHKO Weavile, even without a defense drop nature, you're about as good as dead from a CB Pursuit.

Besides, Wake-up Slap still 2KO's 60 HP EV Tyranitar and slams Blissey on the switch (forcing it to Softboil rather than Thunderwave my switch), which makes it less narrow in application that one would necessarily think. And the -Def only helps Froslass out when it comes to Destiny Bond some kind of potent threat, which is why I'd rather not pour anything into HP.
 
Treedweller said:
This one isn't that gimmicky (i.e. it's actually useful), but nonetheless I haven't seen it listed anywhere:

Froslass @ Choice Scarf
Hasty / / Snow Cloak
204 Atk/ 252 SpAtk/ 52 Spd
Destiny Bond
Shadow Ball
Ice Beam
Wake-up Slap

Roles: Potent Lead, Revenge Killer, Pseudo-Exploder.

Creator Notes: With a Choice Scarf, Froslass hits 442 Speed, more than enough to outspeed Jolly, max Speed Weavile variants, and OHKO even 40 HP variants with Wake-up Slap (247 Atk). If Tyranitar switches in it gets 2KOed with Wake-up Slap. Anything 4x weak to Ice Beam (Salamence, Garchomp, Dragonite, Flygon) gets OHKOed. Additionally, Shadow Ball has a chance to OHKO min HP min SpDef Gengar.

Once Froslass is finished jumping in and out of play and revenge killing, it can take one for the team and Destiny Bond any of the wide assortment of sweepers, and is especially good at taking down Nasty Plotters or Sword Dancers that love to set up and sweep. Man, I wish I could've written the analysis so I could've added that set ;]
Click to expand...
I'm not a pro at pokemon but I somewhat believe this might actually work, and I very much like the feel of it. have you try testing this set to see how far it can go in terms of usage?
 
I still need a good Hasty ditto to breed, so no, I haven't had the opportunity to try it out yet. I'll be posting it in my lastest RMT today, however, so you'll be able to see how it works in a team atmosphere, at the very least.
 
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