RMT: From 'Vire to 'Dol to 'Dos

pokecollector493

RMT: From 'Vire to 'Cress to 'Gyara (OU)

First off, if anyone gets the baseball reference in my title (AKA the famous double-play combo), you deserve a cookie. If not, NO COOKIE FOR YOU.

Here's this new OU Team I made, having 5 OU and 1 UU:

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FYI: I did know about the whole BL-into-UU transistion but I still like to refer Moltres as BL cuz that's where he'll end up. T_T

The team is based pretty much around using resistances and immunties to its advantage in either switching or setting up.

Here they are in depth.
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THE TEAM:

moltres.png


Moltres @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure (Better for Zapdos and the like)
Nature: Modest
EV's: 40 Def / 252 Sp. Atk / 216 Spd
IV's: 30 Sp. Atk / 30 Sp. Def (For HP Ground)

Moveset:
Fire Blast
Air Slash
HP Ground
U-Turn

Moltres really is a great lead, it's a shame I don't see them very often due to that damn Stealth Rock. People, pack a Rapid Spinner, that's what I did T_T. Anyway, this can OHKO a wide variety of leads with either Fire Blast or Air Slash, while U-Turn'ing out if it can't handle it. I chose HP Ground over Will-O-Wisp basically due to WoW's bad accuracy, and because this makes a decent Heatran revenge-killer with it. As long as I can keep SR off my field, this guy can switch in repeatedly to do its dirty work.

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Forretress @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy (I'd give anything to have Heatproof at least, right?)
Nature: Relaxed
EV's: 252 HP / 96 Atk / 162 Def
IV's: 0 Speed

Moveset:
Spikes
Gyro Ball
Rapid Spin
Explosion

This is basically a combination of the "No (Magnezone) Fear" set with the "Standard" set; a bit of a twist to suit my team. It doesn't have LS & Earthquake any more for Magnezone, but it can still 'deal' with it, by giving it Gyro Ball to switch to Electivire. See my plan? Get Magnezone to take the bait, switch out, then grab a Motor Drive and start beating the crap outta everything! Genius! But of course that's not his only way of battling, he still puts down Spikes after Magnezone is dealt with, and can Explode on walls like Zapdos and Cresselia to wear them down or even kill them if they're worn down already.

The EV's are to make a +1 LO Sala's Outrage fail to 2HKO, and don't even try the Bulky version against this guy, he's set up bait w/out Flamethrower. The rest are into Attack to give Gyro Ball even more bite along with minimum speed.
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Machamp @ Leftovers
Ability: No Guard (Draug On; can't make a comment on this ability.)
Nature: Adamant
EV's: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Spd

Moveset:
Rest
Sleep Talk
DynamicPAWNCH
Payback

Your standard Rest-Talk Machamp, and a very good one too in my opinion. He's not the best at countering Yanmega and Gengar, but if I need a nice all-around tank who can still cause mayhem, I'd pick this guy, which I did. DynamicPunch is to cause confusion mayhem, which'll cause switching which'll cause hazard damage, etc etc etc. I chose Payback over Stone Edge after I put Cress on the team, as she can handle Salamence and Gyarados just fine. Machamp's blocked by Ghosts anyway.

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Electivire @ Life Orb
Ability: Motor Drive (....what you thought it was something else?)
Nature: Mild
EV's: 38 Atk / 252 Sp.Atk / 220 Spd
IV's: 30 Spd (For HP Ice)

Moveset:
Thunderbolt
HP Ice
Flamethrower
Earthquake

The standard Mix-Vire....with different EV's and a moveset change! I really think Mix-Vire has the upper hand against the standard "Super Effective" set because it catches most of its normal counters off guard. Celebi, for example, gets hit much harder with Flamethrower than with Ice Punch; Forretress too, and many others.

I COULD have had Cross Chop for Blissey / Snorlax, but when you have that bulky-ass Machamp on the same team, do you really need it? That's why I chose Earthquake to hit other Electrics just as hard. A really good thing I found out was that with the given EV's in speed (which I bumped up to beat Lucario and Porygon-Z), after a MD boost, can actually outrun Timid Scarftran. Yes I bolded that for a reason.

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Cresselia @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Bold
EV's: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA

Moveset:
Reflect
Moonlight
Ice Beam
Charge Beam

Originally I was thinking of having Claydol in this slot, but I realized that Cresselia pretty much outclasses this thing in OU. Cress also serves as the perfect Gyara / Sala counter, which my team desperately needs to cover. Reflect is to also protect from things such as SDLuke and other physical threats while Cress fires off both of her Beam attacks. I know Moonlight isn't the best with the hordes of Tyranitar everywhere but it's the only thing Cress really has, and I'd rather not be Resting, that's Machamp's job.

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Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate (RAWR)
Nature: Adamant
EV's: 156 HP / 108 Atk / 100 Def / 144 Spe

Moveset:
Dragon Dance
Waterfall
Stone Edge
Taunt

Basic BulkyGyara. This guy gets lots of opportunities to switch in, like on a Fire attack to Forretress or a Water / Ice attack to Claydol. I've had one of these on one of my older teams, and I know just what it's like to deal with one of these. Taunt messes up stuff like Suicune and Celebi while Gyarados sets up himself. Water / Rock has good type coverage yadda yadda yadda...you get the drill. Even though this is only the bulky version, I've still swept teams with this monster.

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RETIRED:

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Claydol @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate (Ohmmm...Ohmmmm)
Nature: Bold
EV's: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 Spd

Moveset:
Rapid Spin
Stealth Rock
Earth Power
Toxic

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Well that's my team. I could always use some help with my teams (why do you people think I post them here in the first place anyway).


Comments and advice are always help. :)
 
Give Moltres max speed so that it outspeeds +speed ScarfTran, as right now it only hits 405 and outspeeds Scarf Adamant Heracross. Max speed gives it 418 speed with the scarf, just outspeeding scartran by 1 point. Also, on a scarf set, Fire Blast is definitely a superior choice to Overheat. Overheat has merit on a Specs set as it is designed simply to hit one switch in as hard as possible. However, on a scarf set, you will find yourself in a position to sweep more often, and Overheat won't allow you to do that because of the SpA drops.

On Machamp, you'll want Stone Edge in that last slot, as without it this team struggles with flying types in general such as Salamence and Gyarados. Your Forretress can deal with Gengar quite well, and Stone Edge can still do up to 80% against Gengar.

Stick with Life Orb over Expert Belt on Electivire, and keep Earthquake over Cross Chop in that last slot. Make the most of its ability to use both physical and special attacks, and boost them both with Life Orb. The residual damage is unpleasant, but you have a spinner to get rid of SR so I think we can deal with it in this case. Like you said, you already have a Machamp to deal with Blissey, Snorlax and Tyranitar, and so go with Earthquake in that last slot.

I really don't think Claydol is bringing too much to this team. Your team is quite significantly Gyarados and Salamence weak right now, with them being able to easily set up on Claydol. I suggest you replace it for a bulky spinner Starmie:

Starmie @ Leftovers
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
156 HP / 136 Def / 216 Spe

- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

This Starmie can take a +1 LO Gyarados Earthquake / Stone Edge after SR damage and OHKO back with Thunderbolt. It still provides spin support for your team, and can also serve as a pseudo cleaner up of sorts with its high speed and ability to recover itself of both damage and status. It is also yet another lure for Electric attacks, and will give Electivire more free switches in.

Because you no longer have Stealth Rock, replace Light Screen (or Explosion, up to you but Light Screen is preferable) for Stealth Rock on Forretress. Since you are running Shed Shell, you don't actually need the screen. To deal with Magnezone, you need either Shed Shell or Light Screen + EQ, not both.

Finally, since by replacing Claydol you lose your primary Fighting type switch in, I would go and make Gyarados even bulkier and make it a ResTalk set with Avalanche:

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Impish (+Def, -SpA)
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk

- Waterfall
- Avalanche
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

This will also help you deal with Salamence, as Gyarados is not 2HKOed by a -1 (Intimidated) LO Outrage, and it can survive a neutral (Intimidated but DDed) Outrage with SR damage, and OHKO back with Avalanche both ways. It will also beat Scizor 1 on 1 every single time, and can almost always deal with non Stone Edge Lucario. It also not OHKOed by a Nasty Plot Mixape Grass Knot, and can OHKO back with Waterfall. I think it fits your team very well by covering up the weaknesses in the rest of your strategy, and also gives your team a decent status absorber. Electric attacks are the only things it fears, and that is a guaranteed switch in for Electivire. And since you have spin support for Gyarados, it will make switching it in even easier.

Anyway, hope this helps, and good luck with your team ^_^.
 
I don't think I like having both Claydol and Forretress on a team. They are both support Pokemon who can do very little on their own besides support the team. I suggest that you stick Rapid Spin on Forretress (over Light Screen or Explosion) and toss out Claydol for the similarly resistanced Flygon. GyaraGon is a good combination, one that I use myself with some frequency.

With Machamp, have you considered using Guts with Low Kick and Payback? There was a thread about this a little ways back, but the summary is that Guts Low Kick will do significantly more to just about everything and it makes Machamp into a quite powerful status absorber to boot. As for coverage, Dark/Fighting fails to hit Heracross, while Rock/Fighting fails to hit Gallade, Medicham, Nidoking, and Nidoqueen. Dark/Fighting is probably better on the Guts set, since Payback doesn't have accuracy issues.

As for Electivire, let's look at the coverage: Electric + Ice already hits every Pokemon at least neutral bar Magnezone and Lanturn. Fire hits Magnezone (as well as hitting all Ice Types and Steels besides Heatran harder than either Bolt or HP Ice can). Earthquake gives you a super effective hit on Lanturn, which the other three fail at hitting neutrally, as well as giving you a 4X super effective hit on Magnezone and Heatran. Cross Chop, on the other hand, hits three of the biggest Special Sponges in the game (Tyranitar, Blissey, and Snorlax) harder than Earthquake does. The ability to be a Special Attacker not walled by Blissey is kind of necessary, so I would suggest Cross Chop. Lanturn is never seen in OU, and still heats Magnezone and Heatran super effectively.
 
Thanks for the help, LR & wildfire. I'll change my team around with some of the stuff you guys recommended. Not everything, but the things I thought were good.

I still think Claydol is a good stopper of Cresselia and Zapdos, as Machamp / Electivire can't handle the former while if I replace him with Starmie, then the latter can crush 4 people on my team. I know I have Electivire for Zapdos, but at the sight of him, Zapdos' flee. Zapdos can only muster a Hidden Power vs. Claydol, and he's bulky enough to take one and stop 'Dos in his tracks with Toxic.

Eh I don't know though....I still need help as far as Claydol goes, and stopping Gyarados, I do see that weakness on my team.

Anyone else have a comment?
 
This team looks a bit stallish with mostly bulky(ish) Pokemon so perhaps you should try to end the game at once with a high powered LO sweeper after you get Spikes damage in and such. LO Gyarados would be perfect for the job with his monstrous attack power and the fact that he's already on your team.

There was a comment earlier on the use of Claydol. Yeah, it may be a fact Starmie does the Rapid Spinning job better but Claydol gives the team alot of possible switch ins with its typing. Rock type meant for Moltres, Ground type meant for Forretress, Psychic type meant for Machamp, Electric/Rock type meant for Gyarados, Ground type meant for Electivire. So as we can clearly see, having Claydol on the team increases the longevity of the team overall.
Gyarados w/ Life Orb
Intimidate /// Adamant
252 ATK/252 SPD/6 HP
~Dragon Dance
~Waterfall/Aqua Tail
~Earthquake
~Stone Edge/Ice Fang
 
AbsolDeath said:
This team looks a bit stallish with mostly bulky(ish) Pokemon so perhaps you should try to end the game at once with a high powered LO sweeper after you get Spikes damage in and such. LO Gyarados would be perfect for the job with his monstrous attack power and the fact that he's already on your team.

There was a comment earlier on the use of Claydol. Yeah, it may be a fact Starmie does the Rapid Spinning job better but Claydol gives the team alot of possible switch ins with its typing. Rock type meant for Moltres, Ground type meant for Forretress, Psychic type meant for Machamp, Electric/Rock type meant for Gyarados, Ground type meant for Electivire. So as we can clearly see, having Claydol on the team increases the longevity of the team overall.
Gyarados w/ Life Orb
Intimidate /// Adamant
252 ATK/252 SPD/6 HP
~Dragon Dance
~Waterfall/Aqua Tail
~Earthquake
~Stone Edge/Ice Fang
Click to expand...

Hmm, I actually was considering a LO Gyarados, but my friend suggested the bulky version. Maybe with some other people's choices of Gyara will I then make my decision.


So now it comes down to what I should have, LO Gyara or Bulky?
 
EDIT: I decided to switch Claydol for Cresselia, as in my edited post. Just an FYI, because no one mentioned it before.

Is there anyone else with comments?
 
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