RMT Old Team needing revamp

Wilechase

This is the first team I made when platinum came out. When I first made it, it was a force to be reckon with. But in the latest months, it has been performing not as well. I really liked this team, so I would like some ideas to revamp it, so here it is:



145zapdos.png

Zapdos @ Choice Scarf
Timid/Modest 252 sp atk, 252 spd, 6 hp
~Thunderbolt
~HP Ice/Grass
~Heat Wave
~U-turn
Average scarf-dos. Since plat blessed it with heat wave it can kill a good majority of sweepers. So this is one of my counters to mence, gyara, and scizor since platnium has boosted their popularity. Since its leading U-Turn can get out from a bad lead and goto a counter, and it helps l8r when that might happen too. Not sure if i should go with hp grass or ice since grass wont ko pert anyways, and truthfully i havent seen it as much.



237hitmontop.png

Hitmontop @ Life Orb and Technician
Adament 252 hp, 252 Atk, 6 spd
~Mach Punch
~Close Combat
~Fake Out
~Bullet Punch/Stone Edge/Sucker Punch
Normal technitop. Mach Punch and bullet punch help for revenge killing, fake out scouts, and cc for the heavy kill. Stone edge also works for the legendary birds. Im almost considering sucker punch since this is also a ghost counter becuase of bullet punch and highish sp def and sucker punch will do a bit more. It provides some necessary blissey killage, so if this is considered to be replaced, I need a similar fighting type.




485heatran.png

Heatran @ Leftovers
Modest 252 hp, 240 sp def, 16 sp atk
~Will-O-Wisp
~Overheat
~Stealth Rock
~Earth Power
So yes its my special wall and lays down my rocks. With the sp atk evs he can dent alot of stuff with overheat, not to mention OHKO gengar. Earth Power kills any heatran that isnt a wall or has hp evs. Will o wisp burn w/e and just is awesome.




482azelf.png

Azelf @ Choice Scarf
Adament 252 atk, 252 spd, 6 hp
~Zen Headbutt
~Ice Punch
~Thunder Punch/U-Turn
~Explosion
So with the dawn of platnium and me wanting to use physical azelf for so long, i just had to use this thing. So i thought that if i use it with this team, mine as well try scarfing it. So it gets the zen headbutt STAB and it might flinch them, ice and thunder punch r generic, explosion for blissey and when this is pretty much done. Only thing i dont like is that it doesnt get a fighting move. Im considering u-turn just for extra switch advantage but im not sure. Kind of one of the weaker links, but it works alright, but some other ideas would help.



245suicune.png

Suicune @ Life Orb
Timid 252 sp atk, 252 spd, 6 hp
~Surf
~HP Electric
~Ice Beam
~Calm Mind
Yes this isnt the average wall/crocune. I saw the spd of this thing and its decent sp atk and its general bulkiness makes it a great candidate for suprise sweeping. With the 3 moves it has the only real thing that can take all 3 is shedinja and we all know how common that is. But once it gets even one CM up, it can take on almost anything, and with the life orb boost its hard to stop. Imagine when ppl try to use breloom on this thing, its fun to rape those. It also stops standard zapdos and celebi in their tracks, and we all know about how ppl wish zapdos was gone.



477dusknoir.png

Dusknoir @ Leftovers
Careful 248 hp, 40 atk, 124 sp def, 96 def
~EQ
~Pain Split
~Will-O-Wisp
~Shadow Sneak
So this guy has a bit of a weirdish ev spread. Hes more special based since i got alot of burn going on which means he can physically wall with that amount of def evs. He has just enough atk evs to 2HKO azelf and gengar i think, and gives eq that extra push vs ape and vire. Rest of it is kinda standard.




So thats it. So any advice will help, hopefully we can bring this team back to its full glory.
 
Breaking rule 3.

But anyways: there are much better special/general walls than heatran that can SR (celebi, bronzong, jirachi, ttar are some)

That Suicune will usually not take out more than 2 pokes because life orb damage along with residual damage will take a huge chunk out of suicune.

You are better off using HP grass to take a large chunk of of swampert since your team is pretty swampert weak.

Why scarf azelf? CB would probably work much better, azelf outruns enough stuff
 
Im not really breaking rule 3, the descriptions are long enough and provide enough describing.

Well what would you suggest actually works there, naming off other pokes that work doesnt help. What will help cover me more, what will provide the most support?

So lets see, 20% from 2 LO attacks, 12% from SR, and another 12% if storm is up, thats only 44%, i think it can get by. And a +1 surf does plenty of damage, if i switch to HP grass im walled by the likes of empoleon, who isnt exactly the easiest thing to deal with.

Azelf was made to be a revenge killer, and a quick hitter. If i switch it, i lose one mean of revenge killing, and what tells me that the extra power will help me any more.


I'm still in the mindset of how I used the team way back when, so my points may be a hint weird, but meh.
 
This looks like a very cool team but it can definitely be improved.

In today's metagame Scarf Zapdos lead isn't very good. Instead I would replace it with Scarf Jirachi or even this Jirachi:

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EV's: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SAtk)
- Fire Punch
- Body Slam
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock

This makes a fantastic lead and often will last you until later in the match. Body Slam spreads around para to everything making a Suicune sweep much easier since he isn't very fast. Iron Head is just for annoyance and Fire Punch allows you to check Lucario who gives this team lots of problems.

Hmm. Try a spread of 180 HP / 60 Def or SDef / 160 Speed / 108 SAtk on Heatran. Its what I use. 180 HP hits a leftovers number, 160 Speed insures that you outspeed any varient of Scizor that isn't scarfed and it hits a magic number that gives you 1 extra point for having a beneficial nature. Since this obviously wouldn't work with a Modest nature I sugest you use Timid.

1 main issue with this team is opposing Heatran and DDMence. I really advice you making your Suicune defensive. I don't see the point of having 1 pokemon be all out offensive but the rest are support with the exception of Azelf for revenge killing. CM Cune fits these types of teams very well.

Rotom over Dusknoir? I don't see why people even still use Dusknoir. Unless you play on wifi. Thats a totally different story.
 
Yea ive realized that zapdos isnt exactly the best lead ever. That is an odd jirachi moveset, mainly because I see no trick or u-turn is all. I like the idea of it, but just that I lose zapdos then, which is good and stuff (tbh i have no clue what im saying atm).

But how defensive would heatran be after I change it to that, can it still take the hits I require it to?

So I lose another strong special attacker for a more wall oriented thing. So I'm losing alot of power really, and that leaves me more open to be walled on the physical side.

I used it because this was when japanese platinum was out, so I had no access to rotom. Although with having access to rotom forms on wifi I was considering it. My only concern was having my team too special oriented, but who knows.
 
Martyr:
I refrained from posting sets for heatran replacements because there are numerous sets for each one (for example, Bronzong could also be a dual screener, or generic wall with gyroball+EQ, celebi could be subseed, cleric, etc...). If any of those specifically interest you to replace heatran i will suggest a moveset. Personally, I would if you want to have the resistances heatran has, i would go with Celebi. Besides that glaring fire weakness that heatran does not have, it can sponge hits very well.

A set I would recommend:
Celebi@Leftovers
Calm /w 252 HP, 252 Spd, 4 Spe
-Stealth Rock
-Reflect/Leech Seed
-Recover/Wish
-Psychic/Grass Knot

Specially defensive, SR in first slot, support move in second slot, recovery in 3rd slot, attack in 4th slot.

About your comment to my Suicune counter, you forgot to count other Pokemons attacks. HP Electric/Tbolt can do anywhere from 20%-40% to Suicune, Close Combats/Earthquakes also. It also doesn't hit the rare Lanturn.

Without that scarf, max speed azelf cant revenge kill weavile, dugtrio, jolteon, aerodactyl and scarfers. You don't need Azelf you revenge kill those.
 
Celebi doesnt sport a resistance to bug/dark/ghost, all of which are helpful resistances to have, plus it adds extra scizor weakness.

Well you only mentioned residual damage, so thats the only thing I had to say. If you are factoring other damage in, then yes, it could be problamatic. Lanturn is one of the few things we might see, and is not as important in countering as empoleon.

There are also things with speed boosts, mence, gyara, stuff along those lines, azelf kills. If zap is gone, I have no way to deal with either. Otherwise band might be useful, but what more would it do for me.
 
i personally like that zapdos, but it definitely shouldnt be used as a lead

heatran should not be a lead, as it loses out to pretty much every other lead due to fighting, ground, and water weaknesses, besides maybe azelf

Choice band scizor can do pretty much everything hitmontop can
Scizor@Choice Band-Technician
252 HP/252 Atk/4 Def-Adamant
Bullet Punch
Pursuit
Superpower
U-turn

bullet punch and pursuit can both revenge kill, and u-turn is more effective scouting than fake out, and superpower can kill blissey if you really want

is heatran really that effective at special walling? ive never seen a defensive heatran, its got nice defensive stats but hes just got so many weaknesses (listed above)

Azelf... so you have 3 revenge killers? idk about scarf either, its nice for revenge killing stuff like +2/+2 gyra but thats about it i imagine, i guess im saying theres situations where scarf will save your behind but otherwise choice band is better, since what would you outspeed anyways? jolteon which you shouldnt be revenge killing with azelf, maybe aerodactyl, break speed ties with starmie?

Suicune
Yea i agree with arandomdude, sandstorm/hail+life orb+entry hazards can really wear him down fast, ive never used him and ive never really had trouble dealing with it

Dusknoir
the rest of your team is incredibly fragile, so i think dusknoir is a good pick, since its a little bulkier than rotom and has semi-reliable recovery (pain split)

there are 2 things i dont like about this team
the first is a lack of status absorbers (suicune and dusknoir especially wont appreciate toxic, and dusknoir wont like WoW)
the second is the team layout
3 revenge killers(zap/zelf/top), one fragile attacker (cune), one wall (dusk), an SR/special wall (tran) that i dont think will funtion well at all
if you want a special wall that functions as an SR then i recommend a jirachi as well
Jirachi@Choice Scarf-Serene Grace
252 HP/252 SpD/4 Atk-Adamant
Iron Head
U-turn
Trick
Stealth Rock

this does leave your team fire weak so id recommend changing around that suicune a little
Suicune@Leftovers-Pressure
252 HP/4 SpA/252 Spe-Modest
Substutute
Calm Mind
Surf
Ice Beam/HP Electric/Toxic/Roar

404 hp makes 101 hp subs which lets you set up in blisseys fat face, also blocks status
ice beam hits grasses and dragons, hp electric hits gyra and other waters, toxic hurts a lot of stuff, and roar hurts everything you dont like and also phazes

Or Kingdra works instead of suicune, x4 resist to fire as well
DD-Kingdra
Kindra@Leftovers-Sniper
252 Atk/252 Spe (not entirely sure, but take evs out of attack to make hp 4x+1)
Dragon Dance
Outrage
Waterfall
Draco Meteor/Substutute

draco meteor is STAB w/o getting locked, sub prevents status



well those are my comments, GL
 
a scarf walling jirachi ._. thats just so... gimicky. And what coverage does it offer that my heatran wouldnt?

Whats the point on running max speed on it, and doesnt smogon have its own effective sub-cune set ._.

scizor however is an idea, but that would leave me with a bit too many choice items
 
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