[RMT/OU] Bring Da Pain 2

[djtoxic]

Hi everyone!. This is my 2nd RMT and it's based on the result of the 1st one. I don't wanna waste your time so here it is ^^:

At a glance:
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Team Building:

This is the conclusion of my long search of a good lead. A good lead has to be fast, able to shut down other leads job and if possible, set-up. Aerodactyl does all this things.

Heatran's choice was automatic. If a pokémon has worked well for me, that's Heatran. Works as a revenge killer, has tremendous special power, can shut down those nasty dragons, outspeeds any OU without choice scarf. What else?

Next I needed a poke that makes good synergy with Heatran, something bulky but with good Attack Power... No need to say anything else, bulky offense = Gyarados. It can take electric moves from some pokes, can Taunt, one DD makes it an excellent poke, 2 makes him god. Can sweep anytime and against almost anything.

So far, a swampert can take out my team without a problem (Ice Beam, EQ, Ice Beam while walling), so I needed a swampert counter. Tried many things until I came out with Latias. She's bulky offense like the core of the team, can learn grass knot, she's fast and can counter pretty good her counter (oh sweet irony) Tyranitar. Now give her recover and she's a wall.

If there's something my team can't stand is being rapid spinned, SR plays a vital role in bulky offense, due to the sacrifice it takes to be bulky: less offensive. So, I need a spin-blocker. The always favourite's: Rotom. Rotom-C was the choice because I don't need overheat having heatran, and in my 1st RTM, I had roserade in this place, so... Yup.

Finally, I thougt I needed a choice bander, and another steel poke. Two pokes came to my mind: Scizor and Lucario. I really thougt about this one, and came out with Lucario because when I had scizor, I knew if I faced a magnezone, that was it. Lucario almost always will be locked into close combat, so magnezone won't be a problem. Problem solved, Lucario is my choice bander.

In depth: (changes will be in bold and detailed in changelog)

Tyler (M/Aerodactyl)@Focus Sash
Ability:Pressure
EV's: 4HP/252Atk/252Spe
Nature: Jolly

Earthquake
Fire Fang
Stealth Rock
Taunt

A pretty normal Aerodactyl lead set. Only with fire fang instead of Rock Slide for those Bronzong with levitate. I really don't know what to do because he can do his job, but I face myself against many metagross and priority users where I can barely set up rocks and nothing else. Not to mention when facing other aerodactyl's who speed tie and succeed. Any ideas? PS: I REALLY need rocks on the field, unless my whole team changes.

Heatran (M/Heatran)@Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EV's: 4HP/252Spe/252SAtk
Nature: Naive (+Spe -SDef)

Dragon Pulse
Earth Power
Flamethrower
Explosion

The man (poke :S). My revenge killer, my dragon wall/killer, fire absorber and a good sweeper. I can't ask him more than he does. Explosion is there for when he's weak and I need one last sweep from him.

Gyrann (F/Gyarados)@Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EV's: 156HP/72Atk/96Def/184Spe
Nature: Adamant (+Atk -SAtk)

Dragon Drance
Stone Edge
Taunt
Waterfall

DD Bulky Gyarados perfoms well giving a ground immunity to counter heatran's 400% ground weakness, and waterfall to (after DD) OHKO Tar or Gliscor (most common EQ users), Stone Edge is for Skarmory and other Gyarados and taunt kills any attempt of parafusing/spiking/etc...

Latias (F/Latias)@Leftovers WORKING ON CHANGES
Ability: Levitate
EV's: 128HP/252Spe/128SAtk
Nature: Modest (+SAtk -Atk)

Dragon Pulse
Grass Knot
Hidden Power Fighting
Recover

I invented this moveset so I can take out swampert, a big threat for my team, but it turned out to be much more than that. Dragon Pulse for a STAB (mandatory move), grass knot for pert, HP Fighting for Tar (a counter), Scizor and any other thing weak to it and Recover pretty much gives her the special wall title. Not to mention her immunity to ground, which heatran and lucario loves.

Rotom-C (Genderless/Rotom-C)@Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EV's: 252HP/72 Def/88 Spe/96 SpA
Nature: Timid (+Spd -Atk)

Shadow Ball
Thunder Bolt
Will-o-Wisp
Leaf Storm

This baby over here is another pearl in the team, the most wanted spin-blocker, 2 STABS, another grass move (this time certified against anorexia users) and Will-o-Wisp, able to potentially shut down any physical sweeper (if blissey/vaporeon gets out of the way, being vaporeon weak to rotom).

Lucario (M/Lucario)@Choice Band
Ability: Steadfast
EV's: 252Atk/4Def/252Spe
Nature: Jolly

Close Combat
Ice Punch
Bullet Punch
Crunch

The Choice Bander of the group. And one hell of a choice bander. Close Combat can OHKO almost anything and 2HKO the rest (excepting some cases :S). The rest of the moves are very situational, Ice Punch is for dragons and SOME fly pokes (because a couple of them that come to mind like Skarmory, and Togekiss are teared apart with CC), Bullet Punch when a fast poke with little HP happens to be sweeping my entire team (Extremespeed would be better for this, but Bullet Punch can take out ScarfTar), and Crunch for anything ghost/psychic slower than me.

Changelog:
- Changed Heatran's nature to Naive and HP Ice to Explosion
- Changed Lucario's Extremespeed to Bullet Punch

Conclusion:
Well, although I'm not the best person to say it, I think this is a pretty solid team, I've swept entire teams by just setting up and using one poke, and covers a lot of stuff. However, baton passers and other luck teams often nullify the bulky offense strategy I mostly use, so I'm in a dead point, I don't see how could I improve it without losing stuff so here I am, begging for help :S.

See ya later!

PS: My native language is not english, if you see a typo, a mistake, or something you don't understand, please let me know.

 

[jc104]

Firt of all, take fire punch off Aerodactyl. It will barely scratch Bronzong, who you should be taunting first before setting up SR (and likely dying) anyway.

Heatran should not use HP Ice. Dragon pulse does enough to Salamence to OHKO after SR and outdamages against Latias. Since this is redundant coverage, I would suggest either explosion, for catch-all revenge-killing and hitting Blissey, or HP Electric or grass. Hp Electric lets you revenge Adamant DDGyara, whereas Grass lets you hit bulky waters like Swampert hard (not an OHKO though.)

I would suggest the following Latias set, which lures and kills Swampert, Scizor and Tyranitar well unlike your current set:

Latias @ colbur berry
Timid
72hp 252spatk 184spe
-Draco Meteor
-Thunderbolt
-Grass Knot
-Hp Fire

Colbur berry lets it survive scarftars crunch and scizor's pursuit easily. This lets it KO both, even after having user Draco Meteor on the switch, whilst feigning a choice Scarf. Though expert belt is mentioned in the analysis grass knot is not boosted by it on shoddy (glitch) so I've never used it.

Choice Band Lucario is largely Outclassed by its Swords dancing counterpart, or if you are looking to take out some of Lucario's usual counters, an agility set.

Good luck.

 

[djtoxic]

Hi! Thanks for the rate.
First, yes, heatran's HP ice is quite redundant, and was thinking about explosion. HP Electric IMO is not a good replacement since Rotom and gyara itslef can take out easily other Gyarados. HP Grass... erm dunno, I already have Grass Knot and Leaf storm, and if it was for earth types, hp ice already does the trick. So I'll change Heatran's HP Ice for Explosion and Timid Nature to Naive (+Spe -SDef).

Regarding Latias: Thunderbolt is too predictable, Draco Meteor no-no, lowers SAtk and has 90% acc, and HP fire... yes, that's a good idea. About losing recover, I don't think so. And the Colbur berry is a no-no again. If I'm planning on killing Scizor before he touches me, why use it? Grass knot can't OHKO Tar? (remember, due to tar weight, he receives max damage by grass knot and he is 200% weak). So I'll change Latias HP to Fire.

Finally, I'll have to think about Lucario, he's too fragile (IMO) to SD, I'll have to find somewhere a damage calculator and do some tests before switching.

Again, thanks for your rate!

EDIT: Forgot about aerodactyl, what do you suggest? Ice fang for mence lead?

 

[Plus]

Hello, got your pm.

While this is a fairly nice offensive team, there is certainly room for improvement so you can get the ball rolling faster without being pressured by other teams.

On your lead slot, Aerodactyl still has some trouble in general setting the rocks up although it really works nicely in getting the Taunt down. If you feel that rocks are more of a priority while you still want to beat most leads in general, try running Scarf Jirachi, which can Trick a multitude of leads, kill some off, and set up potentially. You can try tricking leads like Swampert or Metagross and switch to Rotom afterwards should they be earthquaking, or if they sr while you trick then you can lay out stealth rocks. Jirachi succeeds in 2hkoing Azelf , Tyranitar and Aerodactyl leads respectively, and also fares really well against Starmie leads. Lastly, it serves as a late game check to DDMence if you keep it scarfed long enough, which is nifty. Admittedly you dont do so hot against Heatran Leads, although Latias is also something I'd want to change here so let's move onto that.

Latias is pretty slow, you're not going to outspeed the standard mixmence which absolutely sucks, and any physically offensive version of Jirachi will always outspeed you, as well as Sub CM jirachi. Losing to mixape is pretty bad as well though you can generally fake the speed, however this really isn't too reliable. Your latias fails to OHKO minimum defense scarf tyranitar, so I think while your set may contain some surprise value, I'm not too certain if it's the best idea here. Using Specs Latias might be a good compromise of both worlds, as you gain huge power while managing to 2hko pokemon like Scizor with Rocks up, even Scarf Tyranitar won't like switching into it. Dragon pulse and Draco Meteor both hit Swampert ridiculously hard so Grass Knot won't be a necessity here, furthermore, you have an additional trick pokemon to help you against stall.

A choice bander isn't necessary for your team, if anything, sheer power and the ability to threaten I'd say works best with SD Lucario for this team, as I'm particularly concerned about how you deal with threats that come in after Lucario does it's job. Sub Gengar is always a bitch to handle and you generally want to stop it from setting up as much as possible, Rotom is also pretty annoying to handle, you also dont want Gyarados to set up on this team, nor would you want Salamence of all things. Swords Dance Luke can potentially rip teams apart, though using Bullet Punch over Extremespeed is a really good option nowadays as most people do not expect it anymore, and lose their Gengar and Scarf Tyranitar because of it. I dont think this team would really like Scarftar stopping the team willy nilly, and considering you're running Latias and Rotom which is essentially scarftar bait which is in return SD Lucario bait, running Bullet Punch is more practical than running Extremespeed because you are likely to encounter Scarftar.

Here are the changes I've outlined in brief:

Jirachi @ Scarf
Jolly 252 atk / 252 spe / 4 hp
Iron Head / U-turn / Stealth Rock / Trick

Latias @ Specs
Timid 252 satk / 252 spe / 4 def
Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse / Trick / Surf

Lucario @ Life Orb
Adamant 252 atk / 252 spe / 4 def
Close Combat / Crunch / Bullet Punch / Swords Dance

Good luck with the team, hope I helped, also hope you understood everything I had to say. ^^

 

[jc104]

Regarding the Latias, I was simply trying to work out what you were trying to do. If you want a Latias that beats TTar, then your options are limited to say the least. That set I outlined is pretty much the only way of doing it that I am aware of. Hp fighting does roughly the same amount of damage as Grass Knot, 2HKOing after SR. Scarf Tyranitar will outrun your set and beat you with two pursuits or a crunch. My suggested set on the other hand can survive 2 pursuits from ScarfTar at full health, and can 2HKO with Grass knot or 3HKO with one Draco Meteor followed by 2 Grass knots. Dragon pulse would work over DM, as it is not essential to the set, but it still does more damage over 2 turns. The "predictability" of Thunderbolt is entirely to your advantage. They will think you have locked yourself into it, and will be in for a nasty surprise.

If you want a defensive set that can escape from Tyranitar, you could go for a defensive Dragon Pulse, Recover, Reflect, Roar version that I should add will still beat Swampert one to one. The specs suggestion as from above would so a good job of denting Tyranitar, but you should be wary of putting too many choice users on your team, and remember that you can be revenge-killed easily.

As mentioned above, a timid nature to outrun all base 100s is necessary whatever set you opt for.

Aerodactyl should run Rock Slide, for STAB and coverage. No brainer really, though I should add that I am not a great fan of Aerodactyl leads.

 

[djtoxic]

Well thank you both for your rates!.

I'm going to try scarfachi, but one question... How much damage can Jirachi get from (with an #HKO answer is enough): Swampert's EQ, Tyranitar's EQ, Gliscor's EQ and Metagross' EQ (all of them lead sets) and CB Scizor's Superpower/U-Turn?
JUST TESTED: In two words: Jirachi SUCKS. EQ is too god damn common to have another weakness. Mamoswine lead, Roserade sleeper, Empoleon leader (could not stop him from setting up not to mention, he couldn't do anything), and gay baton pass ninjask the same, nothing could be done. Back to aerodactyl until something better comes up...


About Latias, I made some calculation:
Against Swampert:
Draco Meteor: 140 (base power) x1.5 (STAB) x1.5 (choice specs) = 315
Grass knot: 80 (base power) x4 (weakness) x1.5 (specs) = 480
Against Tyranitar:
Draco Meteor: 140 (base power) x1.5 (STAB) x1.5 (specs) = 315
Grass Knot: 120 (base power) x2 (weakness) x1.5 (specs) = 360
HP Fighting: 70 (base power) x4 (weakness) x1.5 (specs) = 420

My set deals more damage to this guys, while providing more covering and if we switch choice specs to life orb, we still have this numbers:
Swampert:
Grass knot: 80 (base power) x4 (weakness) x1.3 (specs) = 416
Tyranitar:
HP Fighting: 70 (base power) x4 (weakness) x1.3 (specs) = 364
So I'm thinking over sticking with what I have now, or changing leftovers for specs and recover with trick. What do you think?

About Lucario, I'm not so sure, swords dance is good and stuff but I already have a physical set-upper (Gyarados) who just can't be CB to be as good as she's now (we'd lose taunt). And Lucario will sweep most of the time with CC so I don't think he needs to change that, HOWEVER, bullet punch over extreme speed is a good change, because losing an entire match because of a ScarfTar over losing 30 power for a VERY VERY situational difference, worths it.

I'm going to apply changes now, many thanks for your suggestions!

 

[franky]

Hi dj,

Looking at your team right now, Aerodactly seems to be the most replaceable member. A suicide lead is not necessary for a team like this, and I think you can look for a better replacement. I was thinking of adding a Swampert lead over Aerodactyl in order to fix this crazy DD Salamence and DD Tyranitar issues, both who can set up on locked in Lucario and Heatran quite easily. A Swampert lead can set up Stealth Rock, while checking the aforementioned threats. Additionally, Swampert will give you a much needed Thunder Wave abrsorber and Electric immunity in general. The set you want is quite standard: Relaxed with the EVs 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 Spe with the movesets Stealth Rock / Earthquake / Ice Beam / Roar. The 6 EVs ensures you outpace enemy Relaxed Swampert, while Roar can be used to reveal more of your opponent's members. It can also act as a phazer if needed.

Latias with a Modest nature is something you never want to do with the amount of Pokemon you'll miss out on outpacing, namely Salamence, Infernape, to name a few. Always go for the Timid nature. Tweak it to a simple 4/252/252 spread. Hidden Power Fighting is iffy when Grass Knot is there to 2HKO it regardless. What you want to try now is Hidden Power Fire to nail overzealous Scizor switch-ins, as well as Skarmory and Forretress.

As for other options, look for the standard Swords Dance Lucario set. Its easily something you can look for, especially since you treat it as a lategame sweeper. Being locked in on a single move is never a great idea, so if you want to maximize your ability to late-game sweep, just go for the simple Swords Dance Lucario set, you won't regret it. The set is widespread now: 4/252/252 spread with an Adamant nature and the moveset Swords Dance / Close Combat / Extremespeed / Crunch. Not only will this set elevate your chances on late-game sweeping, it will also help you deal with stall teams. Lastly, the amount of Pursuit baits you have on your team screams for a free Swords Dance set up on Lucario. overall gl.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

I think Grass Knot and Hidden Power Fighting on Latias is rather redundant, as Grass Knot does enough damage to Tyranitar. I suggest you replace it with either Draco Meteor or Hidden Power Fire.

 

[djtoxic]

Thanks for your rates, I'm gonna try to change HP Fighting to HP Fire and a swampert lead. But honestly I don't like, well, I HATE slow leads. The only one I quite like is bronzong, and he fits better in a trick room team. Reason? Taunt. I think is the difference between a loss and a win in 4th gen, and the failed test with jirachi showed me that. Anyway, I'm going to try pert.

PERT TEST SO FAR: Works like aerodactyl. Offensive abilities pretty much are non-existant (they barely tickle the enemy, excepting for EQ for low defense poke, so, same as aero). That is, because I haven't found any taunter leader yet... so I dunno.
About Latias, I missed HP Fighting once... but Lucario was there anyways (luckily) and I got to use HP fire. So hp fire stays.

PERT TEST UPDATE: GOT SPORED. Nuff Said. Lost to a perish trapper team (with tyranitar on him, couldn't do anything because I didn't have HP Fighting and lost Lucario early (because of him being too fragile, reason why I don't make him SD).

 

[djtoxic]

BUMP