RMT: OU Jolteon based

[MistaBurp]

Hi Smogon,

uhm, yea the team I'm about to post needs to be fixed. I have played it for a few times now, and in the beginning everything is going extremely well, but then the opponent just walks over me. I just have the feeling somethings wrong in this team (might be the way I play it lol). Hoping to get some help here.

First thing is I wanna say, this team is based upon Jolteon. I don't mind major changes to this team, I don't mind that Jolteon his set is changed, but I do mind if Jolteon is taken out of this team.

Allright, lets get started then.

Family portret:

Team building process:

I wanted to build a team around Jolteon, and ofcourse, then you have to use Jolteon.

Allright, since Gyarados is just asking for an Electric attack, he works toghether great with Jolteon, since he eats Electricity for breakfast.

If I go for a DD set with Ice Fang on this Gyarados, he's walled by bulky Waters, Bugs, mainly Scizor and Electrics. Jolteon takes care of the first two. And Heatran can take care of the Bugs from now on.

With three sweepers it's time for a lead. I just picked Azelf 'cause he's a nice Stealth Rock/suicide lead.

This part I like. So since Azelf goes BOOM! most of the time, and in most cases the opponent goes down as wel. The game starts all over. So why don't use a "second lead"? This one can't be a Focus Sash lead because SR will most likely be up at this point. So I figured, why not use Skarmory.

So if I'm gonna use two enrty hazards, a spin blockers needs to be in this team. This is were Dusknoir comes in. He also is a pretty nice wall.

In depth view:

Ability: Levitate
Item: Focus Sash
Nature: Naive
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Moveset:
~ Stealth Rock
~ Fire Blast
~ Explosion
~ Taunt

This set is a little different then the standard lead set. I have chosen to run Fire Blast over Psychic, 'cause the coverage is better then. This thing basicly sets up the Stealth Rocks and Explodes. And with a bit of luck he gets of a Fire Blast first.

Ability: Keen Eye
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Atk / 176 Def / 16 Spe
Moveset:
~ Brave Bird
~ Roost
~ Spikes
~ Whirlwind

The standard Skarmory set. Hard to take down with the Roost. Spikes over Stealth Rock because thats what Azelf has to do. Whirlwind to PHaze / scout. And Brave Bird to get some damage on the opponent. The only thing that hits this thing for super effective damage is a Fire and a Electric Pokémon. And Heatran (Fire) and Jolteon (Electric) eat them.

Ability: Volt Adsorb
Item: Life Orb
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Moveset:
~ Thunderbolt
~ Hidden Power Grass
~ Shadow Ball
~ Baton Pass

Jolteon can come in to Electric attacks aimed at Skarmory and Gyarados. HP Grass is to take out the occasional Swampert. Shadow ball to gain some more coverage. And the last moveslot I run Baton Bass, for the "Dry Pass" scouting technique. This set can hurt alot of threats, and his speed is just awesome!

Ability: Intimidate
Item: Life Orb
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Moveset:
~ Dragon Dance
~ Waterfall
~ Ice Fang
~ Earthquake

Yea, a DD Gyarados. You all know this guy. Can come in on Water and Ground attacks that are aimed at Heatran and Jolteon (alone Ground then). Most of the time the opponent switches, wich gives me a free DD. I choose Ice Fang over Stone Edge, because it gives me a better coverage together with a higher accuracy.

Ability: Flash Fire
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Moveset:
~ Fire Blast
~ Earth Power
~ Substitute
~ Toxic

Can come in on Fire attacks aimed at Skarmory, and covers everything that I haven't covered (Scizor especially). Most of the time people will go to bulky Waters when they see Heatran. So I set up my Subsitute. And then I toxic them, making things easyer for the incoming Jolteon.

Ability: Pressure
Item:Leftovers
Nature: Carefull
EVs: 252 HP / 154 Def / 104 Special Defense
Moveset:
~ Will-O-Wisp
~ Pain Split
~ Ice Punch
~ ThunderPunch

Yea, taking 4 turns to set up all my entry hazards is worthless when they are blown away in one turn... This is were Dusknoir comes in play. When I look at my team, the only thing missing is a wall, this seems to fit Dusknoir as well. Ice Punch and Thunderpunch is for spinners coverage. Will-O-Wisp is just awesome against Physical attackers, and Pain Split alows me to gain some HP.

As I mentioned earlyer. There is something wrong with this team. As I created it, I taught, this is gonna work so badass. But yea it actually doesn't work. In my oppinion when I play this team, things seem to go wrong whenever Dusknoir comes in to play. But yea, give me yours.

 

[jc104]

In terms of resistances, this team is well constructed, so well done in this respect. The only issue here is your lack of a resistance to rock type moves, leading to troubles against CBtar. Dusknoir is ironically your best bet, but is very vulnerable to crunch.

Can I suggest that you replace Dusknoir? Rotom is a major option: firstly Jolteon is frail, so another Electic resist would be beneficial. It also helps against scizor. Secondly, it is much faster and its attacks hit much harder, so it can counter Gyarados better. I suggest either the RestTalk set, with Thunderbolt and Will-o-wisp(look it up in the analysis,) or the standard spin blocker with overheat/thunderbolt/will-o-wisp/shadow ball (you could run pain split if desperate for recovery.) Actually using Rotom-C as suggested below is a good idea. Gengar is another option I will discuss below

The main problem for this team is the weakness to setup sweepers, particularly dragon dancers. The best way to deal with these IMO is to have a fast choice scarfer, but I can't find a way to fit one onto your team without making considerable changes. Scarf Rotom does not outrun salamence after a DD, which is the main problem for your team, so I would maintain that you should run a defensive set. Latias is a good example of what could fill this role, but it would give your team somewhat of a dark/ghost weakness, which would leave you vulnerable to trapping. To add Latias you would probably have to replace Azelf and put Heatran in the lead position with SR. This is the set anyway:

Latias@ choice scarf
Nature:Timid
4hp/252spA/252speed
-Draco Meteor
-Surf
-Thunderbolt
-Trick

Can Revenge kill salamence, Gyarados and many others, and cripple walls with trick. Doesn't much help with the Ttar weakness though (in fact it increases it.) Flygon and Gengar are other examples of good fast scarfers. Gengar could replace Dusknoir instead of Rotom with this set:

Gengar@ choice scarf
Nature: Timid
4hp/252spAtk/252 Speed
-shadow ball
-thunderbolt
-focus blast
-hidden power ice/trick

This can revenge kill salamence (if running hp,) Gyarados and Tyranitar, although it can easily be trapped by one if locked into the wrong move. If running trick, it can cripple walls to open up for a jolteon sweep. I am actually leaning towards this over Rotom. If you do this there is no particular need to replace azelf (though you may if you want to.)

Good Luck with the team.

 

[Madray]

Hello. First of all, you want Charge Beam over Baton Pass on Jolteon because Baton Pass doesn't fulfil any purpose while Charge Beam can turn Jolteon into quite a fearsome sweeper after a boost or two.

Since you said that Dusknoir doesn't really work for you and Skarmory already takes physical assaults comfortably, try Choice Scarf Rotom-C over Dusknoir for spin blocking. The moveset is this:

Rotom-C @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EV's: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Leaf Storm
- Trick

Shadow Ball and Thunderbolt provide STAB and decent type coverage, allowing you to revenge kill threats such as Gengar, Starmie and Gyarados. Leaf Storm is mainly for Swampert, but can also hit Tyranitar and Donphans who try to Rapid Spin. Trcick is to cripple Blissey and Snorlax, which become set up fodders rather than counters for Jolteon.

Since you now have a way to deal with Swampert, swap HP Grass for Ice on Jolteon to hit Flygon, Salamence and Gliscor.

I also recommend using BulkyGyara instead of the offensive set, simply because BulkyGyara is a better lure for Electric attacks that Jolteon can use as set up fodder. For BulkyGyara, simply use Taunt over Ice Fang and change the EV spread to: 156 HP / 72 Atk / 96 Def / 184 Spe while the nature should be Adamant.
GL with the team.

 

[ENZ0]

Nice team, I just want to suggest a different set on your current Skarmory, which lets you spike in the face of bulky waters and resisted special moves. Here it is:

Skarmory@ Shed Shell / Leftovers
Impish Nature
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Spikes
Roost
Brave Bird
Whirlwind

The Specially Defensive Skarmory is a reliable check to draco meteors and can even take a +1 Surf from Crocune. The other reason I suggest this set is based on the fact that this Skarmory has a much easier time spiking laying the hazards as quick as your offense needs it. Hope it helps!

 

[MistaBurp]

So, if I'm correct, you guys suggest the following changes to this team:

-Dusknoir out, Gengar (or Rotom-C) in
-Azelf out, Heatran goes to the lead
-Latias replaces Azelf
-More specially bulky Skarmory
-More bulky Gyarados

I'm verry pleased that you guys agree with me that Dusknoir doesn't do the job.

Basicly, I should run this sets:

Heatran @ Shucka Berry
Nature: Naive
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Moveset:
~ Stealth Rock
~ Fire Blast
~ Earth Power
~ Explosion

Gengar @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Modest
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Moveset:
~ Shadow Ball
~ Thunderbolt
~ Focus Blast
~ Hidden Power Ice

Skarmory@ Leftovers
Impish Nature
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Spikes
Roost
Brave Bird
Whirlwind

Gyarados @ Life Orb
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 156 HP / 72 Atk / 96 Def / 184 Spe
Moveset:
~ Dragon Dance
~ Waterfall
~ Taunt
~ Earthquake

I guess when I run Scarf Gengar that Scarf Latias is unnessesairy. Leaving an open spot in my team, wich I probably fill best with an Ttar counter.

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Nature: Sassy
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 86 Atk / 80 Def / 92 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Moveset:
~ Stealth Rock
~ Gyro Ball
~ Earthquake
~ Hypnosis

This means that the wall I lose in Dusknoir is back with Bronzong, so I now have a Ttar counter.

I did some Dmg Calculations on Ttar Fire Punch (wich a CB Ttar almost never runs) vs. this Bronzong set
CB Ttar: 66.9% - 79.3%
DD Ttar: 45% - 53.3%
+1 DD Ttar: 66.9% - 79.3%
+2 DD Ttar: 89.3% - 105.3%

Meaning I can survive (even with SR dmg) a Fire Punch

Gyro Ball has a small shot at OHKO CB Ttar (with SR) and will always OHKO with SR and one layer of spikes in play. DD Ttar is always a OHKO, even when its not running Jolly nature.

What do you guys think about this changes?

 

[jc104]

You don't have to take up every change someone suggests at once. I, in fact, made two alternative suggestions:

-Rotom-C and Latias in, Dusknoir and azelf out.
-Dusknoir out, Gengar in.

The team you posted there with the changes is fine nonetheless, and none of the suggestions are bad, but I suggest you think about how one suggestion fits with another. This team still has trouble with Swampert, which was one of the reasons for the Rotom-C suggestions.

Your bulky Gyarados should definitely run leftovers, not life orb. Also, I would recommend either Return or Bounce (for this you need lefties even more) over Earthquake, because it grants better type coverage. Gyarados also benefitted from the azelf lead and its fast taunt, due to stealth rock often being prevented.

Baton Pass is much better on choice Jolteon sets, to avoid becoming locked into a innefective move. Charge beam as mentioned above is recommended.

If you used all of those sets you posted you would have two stealth rockers - this is of course totally unnecessary. Bronzong makes an acceptable lead, allowing you to switch back to the previous Heatran set, or you could simply put explosion over SR on the Bronzong set.

EDIT: just saw your post below. Don't worry, the team is fine as you posted it, except for the double SR. Azelf and Bronzong play very different roles; I think you should stick with Bronzong actually becasue of Ttar. I generally try to give both sides of argument to allow someone to decide for themselves when it comes to major team changes, which of course I try to avoid suggesting in the first place.

 

[MistaBurp]

You don't have to take up every change someone suggests at once. I, in fact, made two alternative suggestions:

-Rotom-C and Latias in, Dusknoir and azelf out.
-Dusknoir out, Gengar in.

The team you posted there with the changes is fine nonetheless, and none of the suggestions are bad, but I suggest you think about how one suggestion fits with another. This team still has trouble with Swampert, which was one of the reasons for the Rotom-C suggestions.

Your bulky Gyarados should definitely run leftovers, not life orb. Also, I would recommend either Return or Bounce (for this you need lefties even more) over Earthquake, because it grants better type coverage. Gyarados also benefitted from the azelf lead and its fast taunt, due to stealth rock often being prevented.

If you used all of those sets you posted you would have two stealth rockers - this is of course totally unnecessary. Bronzong makes an acceptable lead, allowing you to switch back to the previous Heatran set, or you could simply put explosion over SR on the Bronzong set.

Oh, my bad ^^

It's just that I want this team to work really bad! Your suggestion with Rotom-C and Latias is certainly a good one. As also the final changes on Gyarados. If I put the Azelf lead back in the Bronzong is unnessecairy?

 

[MistaBurp]

Damn this is definitely a tricky descision.
The Azelf lead (as mentioned before) grants an almost certain set-up and with the opponent Taunted no SR will be in play to mess up Gyarados before it has even began to sweep.

Also, Heatran, Jolteon and Gyarados can't be touched as wel due the way they cover each other.

With this in mind there are two spots left that can be touched, altough if Skarmory is taken out, a Spin Blocker makes less sence.

It's worth considering to take Skarmory out, and let Brongzong fill this spot and let it run Explosion over Stealth Rock (Ttar is covered now), and changing Dusknoir to Rotom-C (Swampert is covered as well). A final descision I think that might improve this team's effectiveness is to change Jolteon into a Scarfed one, creating a revengekiller. Ofcourse HP Ice will go over HP Grass, concidering the fact that a Scarfed Jolteon can't OHKO Swampert with HP Grass but he will always OHKO Salamence and will always outspeed Salamence after a DD. In fact he'll outspeed Salamence even after 2 DD if he has an incomplete speed IV (27 or less)

This alowes me to run the Azelf lead, bulky DD Gyarados and subtran without any issues.

Correct me if i'm wrong