RMT - Passing in the Sandbox

hamlin4th

Hi, this is my first RMT on Smogon, and my second competitive team made. My first team was a Rain Dance team, but I never posted a topic for it here. I had almost given up on Pokemon as a whole until I did some research on competitive battling, which revived my interest in the series. I've been battling for about four months between Shoddy, Wi-Fi, and PBR.

Anyways, this is a team I made about two weeks ago. Though you might notice my team being similar to another baton pass team that was posted a few days ago. Just wanted to put up the notice that I'm not copying them, although it did push me to finally making a RMT topic.

Now I'll be using this team for Wi-Fi battles after I think I've done all the changes that I can to it, but I don't mind making switches that would improve its' use on Shoddy. I mean if it does well on Shoddy, it should be great on Wi-Fi right?

THE TEAM

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Machamp (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 104 HP/252 Atk/48 Spd/104 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Payback
- Stone Edge
- Dynamicpunch

My anti-lead, who is here to start each and every battle with a bang. Simple strategy here, just have to Dynamicpunch almost everything in sight and let the confusion mess with my opponent. Bullet Punch is great priority, Payback for pesky ghosts, and I put Stone Edge over Ice Punch for overall team coverage with my Tyranitar below. Unfortunately this is the only guy on my team who isn't immune to Sandstorm, so if by some case he switches out and is available later in the game, he'll be taking some damage. But I couldn't have though of a better lead that can weaken opposing teams in the most general of situations.
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Tyranitar (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 48 Atk/208 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Ice Beam
- Superpower
- Flamethrower
- Dark Pulse

Ahhh....the MixTar. In a metagame full of Choice Scarf Tyranitars and a few Dragon Dance versions, you wouldn't think of stumbling upon this guy. Well Tyranitar is necessary on my team for putting up a Sandstorm of course, but he goes mixed for the type coverage I desperately need early in game. I decided to put Dark Pulse over Crunch since it tends to more damage on the Rotom forms and Dusknoir, who EV in defense. One thing that really makes me struggle beginning in the battles is with the Fake Out Infernape leads. He owns both my Tyranitar and Machamp, and it generally causes me to have to start passing against a strong team as opposed to a weakened down one.
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Bronzong @ Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/152 Atk/8 Def/96 SDef
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Explosion
- Stealth Rock

Since my team is so heavily reliant on a single baton passer, I obviously needed a dual screener. Bronzong seemed like the right man for the job with his excellent defenses and fantastic typing. Plus he can carry Stealth Rock, something that really helps score KO's which my Metagross sometimes can't barely pull off. I'd much rather use Uxie if he had Explosion, but Memento doesn't do anything against Substitutes, something I see opposing Pokemon commonly set up when my Bronzong is building his screens.
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Gliscor (M) @ Yache Berry
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP/60 Spd/196 SDef
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Agility
- Swords Dance
- Taunt
- Baton Pass

My Baton Passer and the beating heart of my team. Without him, my strategy fails! Yache Berry is my Gliscor's savior, I couldn't imagine him holding anything else. A lot of the times he can take two Ice Beams because of its' effect. But sometimes he can only take one and only gets to pass Agility, which is good enough depending on how my Tyranitar and Machamp did of working down the opposing team. Anyways, Gliscor always sets up with Agility first in order to outspeed most Pokemon. Swords Dance comes second if he can get a way with it. And of course the reason why I'm using Gliscor is that he has Taunt! You thought your Skarmory/Swampert/etc. can just roar my team into the ground? GTFO! Finally, there's Sand Veil, which is awesome win it activates. Being able to pass over +2 Speed/+4 Attack because of that ability is just amazing.
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Metagross @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 40 HP/252 Atk/216 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Thunderpunch
- Ice Punch
- Zen Headbutt

My second most important member of the team; my very own baton pass recipient. Lum Berry is here mostly for the Rotom forms and Dusknoir who like to Will-o-Wisp me and ruin my sweep. Ice Punch/Thunderpunch/Earthquake has excellent coverage capable of sweeping all of OU. And then there's Zen Headbutt......yeah....I really don't like this move. It only has 90 accuracy for a 80 base power move. I only have it so I have something against the Rotom forms. I really wish I could use something else, but the rest of Metagross' movepool doesn't really have anything else usable. Maybe Iron Head, but Steel is as worse as an offensive type than Psychic. Everything else will just hax me to death. (I'm looking at you Meteor Mash)
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Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Explosion
- Hidden Power [Grass]

I needed a revenge killer, and Magnezone seemed like a great choice to me. (ok not funny) He's also a great DD Gyarados counter, who was giving my team a bit of trouble before I added Magnezone in. Also HP Grass is here because my Tyranitar/Machamp combo has no real offense against bulky waters. I'm thinking about switching Explosion for Signal Beam, just to have added coverage.
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I'd say my top three threats to this team are Substitute users, Lead Infernape, and Salamence. As mentioned earlier, the Substitute users generally set up on Bronzong. Most of the time explosion gets' rid of it and I'm able to Taunt them with Gliscor so they can't bring it back up. But then that leads to a game of prediction where they might not use Substitute and just free hit on my Gliscor, which limits the number of times he can pass. Also mentioned earlier, Lead Infernape is a bastard. He plows through my Machamp and Tyranitar, and causes my Bronzong to only put up one screen. And Salamence beasts through the beginning of my team too. DD Mence owns my Tyranitar so I can't Ice Beam him in time, and Classic Mixmence ruins my screens.

Alright, so tell me what you think of my team. I'm open to any amount of criticism and am willing to make changes, just as long as my team still follows the general role I established. (sandstorm, dual screener, baton pass)
 
I really suggest a bulky water in this team, Infernape and Heatran could cause major trouble if Bronzong doesn't get Light Screen up. Sub Tran is possibly your biggest concern, and once its under a substitute, 3/6 of your team will fall to its powerful Fire Blast.

Only pokemon in your team that can at least check Heatran perfectly is Tyranitar and Gliscor but if Heatran is scarfed than that will be a huge problem. So, try to include a solid bulky water like Gyarados. With its great bulk, you could set up quite easily.

Bronzong is giving you that third fire weakness, you could instead use Dual Screen Azelf which is better imo, its fast and extremely reliable at setting up rocks quickly.

Good luck with the team.

 
Your team has many weaknesses in its typing. You have three pokemon that take Super Effective damage from Ground and three pokemon that take Super Effective damage from Fire. I do not see how you translated Magnezone as a good "revenge-killer" for this team, if anything it is a very bad revenge killer.

Gyarados has the opportunity to use Earthquake which is not uncommon on a Gyarados these days. A +1 Life Orb Max Attack Gyarados's Watefall will deal 86.5% - 101.8% damage to a Scarf Magnezone and a +1 Bulky Gyarados's Waterfall will deal 57.7% - 68.3% damage. With Stealth Rocks involved I do not see it being able to do a great job. Also, after one Dragon Dance Gyarados can outspeed any Magnezone.

By removing the terribly unwanted Magnezone for something like a Scarfed Starmie or a Scarfed Rotom-A, you will be removing a heavy chain on your team and give it the power to stand up to more Fire and Ground attacks. Any team that has Ground weaknesses performs well with more Levitators so a Scarfed Rotom-A will make a great addition to your team, more so Rotom-H or possibly Rotom-C.

If you want your Gliscor to pass off +2 Attack and no less you will need to use Hyper Cutter as its Ability over Sand Veil as it works that much more appropriately.

Meteor Mash works better wonders on Metagross which in combination with Earthquake, Thunder Punch and Ice Punch will hit nearly all pokemon for a lot of damage. One particular pokemon which you may not be able to OHKO is a Bulky Rotom-A if you progress with Meteor Mash over Zen Heabutt, there for your Tyranitar may be better with a Choice Scarf/Band. Your Machamp lead already lures Ghosts types, so if you had a Pursuiting Tyranitar you could switch it in on Rotom-A (watching out for any Will-O-Wisps) and succesfully eliminate it with Crunch or Pursuit. Although, this rids the Special Attacking Offense of the team, but is worth considering.


That is all I have to contribute for now, I hope your team goes out as well as planned!
 
Hi there,

I really like shallow baton passing teams, and you've got a really cool one here. There are a few suggestions I can make that will vastly improve the success of your team, though, so let's get to it!

First, your lead Machamp's EVs are wonky. You should run the following spread: 240 HP / 248 Atk / 16 SpD / 4 Spe This will help you survive lead Azelf's Psychic, give you the life to survive assorted other assaults, and still keep you with enough power to beat enemies down. Just to let you know, you also beat Lead Infernape with your Machamp. Just use DynamicPunch on the second turn after Fake Out, then Bullet Punch to finish it off. It will go down and you won't have to worry about it.

Next, your Tyranitar needs some work. You could go for a means to lure in any beat Salamence and Gliscor, as well as a way to Pursuit opposing Pokemon. I recommend using a BaitTar here.

  • It lures in and KOes Lucario, Salamence, and Gliscor, who may try to setup on a Choice-locked Pursuit.
  • Can pursuit Rotom-A and other things.
Tyranitar @ Expert Belt
Ability: Sandstream
EVs: 252 Atk / 48 SpA / 208 Spe
Nature: Hasty
~ Crunch
~ Pursuit
~ Superpower
~ Ice Beam

Lastly, I want to recommend that you replace Magnezone with a brave little toaster of your own. Your Magnezone really does not beat +1 Gyarados, as it's slower, and isn't contributing much to your team otherwise. Try the following Rotom-A:

  • Actually beats DD Gyarados
  • Adds another ground-type immunity instead of a weakness
  • Is a good response to CBScizor that you otherwise lack
  • Can burn a bunch of stuff that bothers your team
Rotom-H @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe
Nature: Bold
~ Thunderbolt
~ Shadow Ball
~ Will-O-Wisp
~ Overheat

These changes should help your team a bunch on Shoddy battle. Give them a try and let us know how it goes! Good luck!
 
Thanks for the suggestions guys, I will definitely switch up my team a bit more and incorporate your advice.

Also, one of the Rotom forms look like they would be a fantastic addition to my team, but what should I sub them out for on Wi-Fi battles? I know Starmie was mentioned.

Edit: Also, I thought of another alternative to Rotom.

Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Energy Ball

Only problem is that Gengar will be taking recoil damage in a sandstorm. And I figured Swampert is a bigger threat to my team than Scizor, so I chose Energy Ball over Hidden Power Fire.
 
Reading through your RMT , I can tell you one thing. You're typing is terrible. It's a really good set, and I'm sure it can punch through things, but as some one else said, half your team is weak to earthquake. In other words, a non-lead swampert (however rare they are) can kill half your team with out a turn of set up. (note, no calcs behind this, just a worst case scenario kind fo thing. chances are its more like a 2HKO, but still.) You're entire team with the exception of Magnezone takes at least neutral damage from surf, which is another VERY common attack. I like the team I like the build, bit i think bulky waters like namely Swampert will Give you a REALLY hard time. I would also like to say that i think Having a BP-only Gliscor is a waste of his talents, but its you're team and it revolves around that, (other wise it'd just be a generic Sandstorm team)

As far as Infernape's concerned You could run Aqua Tail on Tyranitar, but then yo have to decide what to lose. You could always drop Mixtar and go Dance Dance Revolution-tar, But then you lose your ability to get through physical walls eaisly. (my DDtar build is DD/Crunch/EQ or SE/Aqua Tail. If you really want the mixtar, You could always drop one of your spec attacks for Aqua tail. And if you're REALLY against dropping A spec attack for a physical one, Tyranitar always learns Surf. Hope i helped a little. Good luck with the team, it looks fun!

PS. You can also Run DDmix Tar? Just though of it. DD/Crunch/Stone Edge/Surf Iunno how'd work, but.. hey, possibilities.

PPS I saw some one reccomend you drop sand veil for hyper cutter. Which on paper makes sense. But when was the last time you had your attack lowered? Unless you're fighting a mean look team, You will very rarely come across debuffs to your team, and even then... Mean look teams are just baton pass teams made to kill things, instead of have a recipiant.
 
Made a lot of changes with the team.

OK guys, I took your advice and messed with my team a bit and have also been testing it out on Shoddy for the past couple days. You guys really helped, my team is doing a lot better now! Here it is:


Machamp (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 240 HP/248 Atk/4 Spd/16 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Payback
- Stone Edge
- Dynamicpunch
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Tyranitar (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk/208 Spd/48 SAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Superpower
- Ice Beam
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Azelf @ Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/252 Spd/4 SDef
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Explosion
- Taunt (really wanted to include Stealth Rock here, but Azelf kept getting set up as it was building screens)
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Gliscor (M) @ Yache Berry
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP/60 Spd/196 SDef
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Agility
- Swords Dance
- Taunt
- Baton Pass
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Metagross @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 40 HP/252 Atk/216 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Thunderpunch
- Ice Punch
- Meteor Mash
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Gengar (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Energy Ball
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I'm satisfied with almost everyone on my team excluding Gengar. I mean he's fast, has a lot of power, and gives my team some much needed coverage, but he can't counter CB Scizor. He always gets KO'd by Bullet Punch, so having Hidden Power Fire won't help. I decided to replace that with Energy Ball as a response to bulky waters such as Suicune and Swampert. I'd rather use Rotom-A, but once I'm done testing this on Shoddy, my team is going straight to Wi-Fi.
 
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