[RMT] Proof that Gen V sucks

[AnyaAlstreim]

Team History

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My favorite set, can’t make a team without it.

Now that I have an offensive wall-breaker handled, time to add in an offensive pivot, and Scizor is the perfect pivot I’m looking for with a very powerful U-turn.

With that, I realised I have a glaring weakness to Sub-Balloon Heatran, and hence Slowbro enters the mix.

With that covered, I decided I needed a more reliable Pokemon to revenge kill DD-nite, and hence Mamoswine joins the party.

Having covered DD-nite, I realised my team is weak against DDancers in general, and in goes Rotom-H to cover up set up sweepers in one swoop.

I realised that I am putting too much concern on Defense over offense, so I added Alakazam to round off the team.

After rounds of testing, I found 2 major problems:
1. Vaporeon almost puts a complete stop to this team.
2. Alakazam is not doing much to help the team.

This lead me to consider Celebi over Alakazam.

With this, I realised I have 2 parts of a Grass-Fire-Water defensive core, but Rotom-H is plain too weak to common attacks to be part of that core. This is where Heatran comes into the picture.

With Heatran in the team, there ought to be someone to set-up Stealth Rock for his to abuse. It is a pain trying to look for someone that shares no weakness, but Nidoqueen eventually fits in the gap left by Mamoswine perfectly.

With advice from Tomahawk9, Vaporeon replaced Slowbro.

So, meet the team:

Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 112 Atk / 216 SpA / 180 Spe
Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SpD)
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Outrage

Justification: While the set on-site aims to work purely as a wall-breaker, this set aims to double as a late-game cleaner. Instead of fully investing in Spe, I decided to only give him 180 Spe to reach a value of 281, enough to outspeed Neutral base 90s, Spec Hydreigon and all variants of Heatran. 112 Atk EVs was used to always OHKO come variants of Dragonite through Muti-scale, and Chansey with SR. The rest is dumped into SpA to maximise the power of Draco Meteor and Fire Blast, the latter always OHKO-ing 200/252 Scizor in the rain with SR.

Threats Covered:

Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit
- Superpower

Justification: This is basically the set on-site, except with 8 EV into Spe so that I can outspeed Jellicent and switch out with U-turn it before it can burn me. Scizor is a crucial member of my team because it allows me to keep up my momentum. U-turn deserves a special mention in my team because it allows me to switch to Celebi or Nidoqueen to absorb statuses, who can from there set-up all they need.

Threats Covered:

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Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Psychic
- Slack Off
- Fire Blast

Justification: The reason I chose Slowbro over other Bulky-Waters is primarily due to Fire Blast. I don’t know how many Ferrothorns I have KO-ed with a surprise Fire Blast. Scald and Slack Off are a given considering how Slowbro can be used as a secondary check to DDancers. Regenerator is just an added bonus to allow more chance to apply the burn. The reason why I chose Psychic over Ice Beam is mainly because Scald already handles most of the problems that Ice Beams solve and Thunder Wave is counter intuitive because of Scald.

Threats Covered:

With advice from Tomahawk9, this Slowbro is replaced with:

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 12 HP / 238 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Protect
- Wish

Nidoqueen @ Leftovers
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic Spikes
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam

Justification: As my team is defensive overall, Toxic Spikes is deadly to both me and by opponent. Stealth Rock is a must to abuse Heatran to the maximum, which means I have to forsake Sheer Force, and by extension, Earth Power, since Earthquake is much stronger. Impish is used over Relaxed to outspeed anything slower than 188 Spe, notably Breloom, Metagross and Techni-top. Ice Beam is still used over Ice Punch due to how whatever it needs to hit with it generally has a lower SpD than Def.

Threats Covered:

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 152 SpD / 108 Spe
Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Protect
- Roar
Justification: With SR and Toxic Spikes support from Nidoqueen, SpD Heatran becomes an absolute monster, almost capable of stalling out and entire team. Also, this is my answer to bulky DD-nite, who thinks he has perfect coverage with Dragon Claw and Fire Punch. Other Flash Fire users are a problem; hence I chose to use Earth Power over Status moves. This Heatran is especially good against Balloon-less Heatrans, being able to tank an Earth Power and OHKO-ing back.

Threats Covered:

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Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Recover
Justification: The final member of the Grass-Fire –Water Defensive core. In favour of more powerful sweepers, Celebi is often forgotten as one of the best users of Calm Mind. Even at +6, Reuniclus will never be able to deal more than 50% to Celebi, allowing Celebi to easily wait for that Giga Drain crit to take down Reuniclus. 36 Spe EVs allows it to outspeed Tyrannitar, allowing it to heal before getting hit by the Godzilla wannabe, where Celebi eventually retaliates with a +6 Giga Drain.

Changed to more offensive variant due to trouble more often than not as a result of imperfect coverage.

Celebi @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 232 HP / 240 SpA / 36 Spd
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Perish Song
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Recover

Threats Covered:

 

[AnyaAlstreim]

Threatlist

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Taken from PK's RMT :)

Breloom: It can generally be KO-ed easily unless it comes in on SlowbroLime"]Vaporeon[/COLOR], in which case I e Spore with something, and breaking its Sub with Scizor. In the scenario where it lacks Sub, Nidoqueen can easily tank his entire movepool. in in the case he does, Salamence will tank him.

Blissey: Under the unlikely scenario that both Scizor and Salamence are dead, Heatran and Nidoqueen can easily outstall her with Toxic Spikes

Bronzong: Salamence is a direct counter to it. Under the scenario that it switches into Draco Meteor, ISlowbroays take it downCOLOR="lime"]Vaporeon to wear it out[/COLOR].

Celebi: Scizor can easily OHKO it with a CB U-turn. In the case where it runs Hp-Fire, Salamene can easily tank any move that is thrown his way, and eventually taking Celebi down with a super effective Fire Blast or a STAB Outrage.

Conkeldurr: This is tricky. My team does not have a specific counter to it. However, assuming it does not run 0 Spe IV, It cannot touch Slowbro and Slowbro can hit it super effectively with Psychic. Alternatively, Salamence can hit it really hard with Draco Meteor.

Deoxys-S: It's in Ubers now so I can just ignore it.

Excadrill: It's in Ubers now so I can just ignore it.

Ferrothorn: Salamence OHKOs with Fire Blast. Heatran does the same with Lava Plume. - ( red - refers to deleted reference to Slowbro). Scizor hits it really hard with Superpower. Nidoqueen sets-up alongside it. Celebi sets-up on it and kills it with HP-Fire

Forretress: Basically Ferrothorn with less SpD but with Rapid Spin and Toxic Spikes. This means that setting up with Nidoqueen or hitting it with Superpower are no longer options, but the rest of my team can take care of it.

Gengar: Heatran can tank a Focus Blast and kill it with Lava Plume. Scizor deals massive damage with any move. Celebi sets-up in his face and watch Shadow Ball dealing more pathetic damage.

Gliscor: The only fixed counter I have are Nidoqueen and Salamence, but Slowbro can also double as a counter to is assuming it does not carry Fling.

Gyarados: Celebi tanks any varSlowbroiant without BCOLOR="Lime"]Vaporeon[/COLOR] tanks anything so long as it gets a Scald burn and -. Offensive DD variants that attempts to sweep are nullified by repeatedly switching between Vaporeon/Celebi and Salamence.

Haxorus: Depending on what set it runs, I can either choose to kill it straight away with Bullet Punch or attempt a burn with Vaporeon.

Heatran: Air Balloon is a pain. With it gone, Salamence and my own Heatran can easily take it down. Also, it is helpless against Vaporeon unless it carries Toxic.

Hydreigon: Choiced variants are easily walled by Heatran. Expert Belt variants can be quite threatening. If I managed to tank the Draco Meteor, Nidoqueen can 2HKO it with Ice Beam.

Infernape: It cannot do anything to Salamence who OHKO's with Earthquake. Special variants are stopped by Heatran who OHKO's with Earth Power. All variants are walled by Vaporeon unless it carries Thunderpunch.

Jellicent: Celebi sets-up in his face and proceeds to sweeping his team. When Toxic Spikes are out, Heatran will wall it around.

Jirachi: Specially defensive ones can be really annoying if they start spamming Body Slam. If I managed to force it to yellow health, I can switch to Salamence as it Wishes and finish it with Earthquake.

Kingdra: Kingdra will never be able to muscle its way through Slowbro, who Scalds it and whittle it down with Psychic. Chesto-Rest variants are more dangerous, but Heatran can easily switch in on a predicted Outrage and Roar it away.

Kyurem: Heatran can tank anything thrown at it. Scizor can Bullet Punch it to oblivion. Salamence outspeeds and OHKO's with Draco Meteor.

Landorus: -Vaporeon can easily wall it. Scizor can take it down with its powerful Bullet Punch.

Latias: Latias falls to Scizor if it does not have HP-Fire. And even if it does, Heatran walls it all day.

Latios: Scizor can often take it down with Bullet Punch or Pursuit. If I am sure it does not carry Surf, Heatran can easily wall it.

Magnezone: More often than not, Scizor will be spamming U-turn. If it does gets trapped, then Scizor will have to die. Cannot do anything to Heatran even if it does carry HP-Ground, and Heatran easily kills it with Lava Plume or Earth Power.

Mew: Physical variants are suppressed by Intimidate. Special variants are more of a pain. Either way, Scizor easily kills both unless it carries Fire Blast. Either way, it will get walled by Vaporeon. Assuming it carries both Fire Blast and Shadow Ball, it gets walled by Heatran. Overall, a lot of scouting it required.

Ninetales: Food for Heatran. Heatran barely takes more than 50% from HP-Ground and kills it with Earth Power. Alternatively, Salamence resists whatever it has and kills it with Earthquake.

Politoed: Any variant is set-up bait for Celebi, unless it uses Spec Ice Beam. However, more often than not, against Politoed, I will be leading with Scizor, so Celebi won't be risking that Ice Beam

Reuniclus: Trick Room variants are a bit problematic. However, Heatran can easily burn away 3 turns of it, at which point, I switch to Scizor and kills it with Pursuit or U-turn. CM variants lose to Celebi.

Rotom-W: Celebi is one of his best counters. Salamence won't mind a Choice Spec or Scarf and will still kill it with Draco Meteor.

Salamence: DD variants without Draco Meteor are easily handled with Vaporeon. Against Mixmence, Nidoqueen can tank a Draco Meteor, and KO it back with a Ie Beam. If Nidoqueen is dead, I will have to sack something to Draco Meteor and then kill it with my own Draco Meteor.

Scizor: Salamence is a good counter. Scizor fails to KO Vaporeon and is easily stalled out by Vaporeon. Same applies to Heatran.

Scrafty: DD variants are killed by Scizor. Bulk Up variants are disposed with Draco Meteor.

Sigilyph: Set-up bait for Celebi. Scizor still hits very hard after a CP.

Skarmory: Half my team is immune to Spikes, and half of it carries special fire attacks.

Slowbro: Set-up bait for Celebi. Draco Meteor OHKO's and U-turn hurts.

Starmie: I bait the Ice Beam and goes to Scizor, tanking the Hydro Pump and KO-ing it with U-turn. I am more concerned with Rapid Spin, since I have no spin-blocker.

Terrakion: Scizor revenge kills with Bullet Punch. Celebi and Vaporeon kills variants without X-scissor. Vaporeon additionally can burn it, making it useless.

Thundurus: It's in Ubers now so I can just ignore it.

Tornadus: Choiced variants are stopped by Heatran or one of my Psychic-types. Either way, Vaporeon can tank it and hit it back hard with a Rain-boosted Scald. Scizor can easily dispose it with Bullet Punch.

Tyranitar: Assuming it has no Babiri Berry, Scizor will easily kill with with Bullet Punch. Otherwise, Nidoqueen hits very hard with Earthquake.

Victini: Hard to switch into. But after he uses V-create, he can easily be outsped and killed.

Virizion: Celebi has a type advantage during CM wars. SD variant with HP-Ice over Leaf Blade is walled by Vaporeon. SD variant with Leaf Blade is dangerous. Either way, Scizor beats it with any skill.

Volcarona: Heatran walls it, even if it carries HP-Ground. If he is below 50% health, I can just Roar him off and laugh.

 

[Tomahawk]

Cool team. There were three things I noticed: the first is how redundant Slowbro is on your team. Pretty much all things it beats which other bulky Waters don't are already handled. One of Slowbro's biggest advantages is taking on Fighting-types, but with Nidoqueen, physically defensive Celebi, and Intimidate Salamence, and Scizor for Terrakion, no Fighting-type can ever give you trouble even with Slowbro gone. Second, Starmie, and other powerful special Water-types such as Politoed in the rain can trouble you. Life Orb Starmie with Hydro Pump / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam 2HKOes everything on your team, so nothing can really switch in reliably. Scizor, Nidoqueen, and Heatran are OHKOed by Hydro Pump, Salamence is OHKOed by Ice Beam, Slowbro is 2HKOed by Thunderbolt and can't harm Starmie, and Celebi is 2HKOed by Ice Beam. Basically, you have to sac something and bring in Celebi every time it comes in. Finally, your team is kinda weak to residual damage: Salamence takes Life Orb, Stealth Rock and potential sand damage, and Scizor takes Stealth Rock and possible Spikes damage every time it U-turns. Nidoqueen and Heatran are important wallls for your team, but without recovery that can be hard.

What I suggest to fix this all, is replacing Slowbro with a Vaporeon. Vaporeon can handle things such as Life Orb Starmie easily, as with the right spread Vaporeon isn't even 2HKOed by Life Orb Thunderbolt thanks to Protect. Vaporeon also provides your team with Wish support, which is very useful for Salamence, Scizor, Nidoqueen, and Heatran. The exact set is:

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Vaporeon @ Leftovers | Water Absorb
Bold | 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Wish / Protect / Scald / Toxic

As for some smaller changes, consider Perish Song > Hidden Power Fire on Celebi. There are several reasons for this. First of all, when faced with a Calm Mind Reuniclus with Life Orb and Psyshock, your Celebi loses. +6 Giga Drain only does about 20% to a +6 Reuniclus, so a crit will not mean you'll take it down. On the other hand, a +6 LO Psyshock from Reuniclus 2HKOes your Celebi about half of the time. With Perish Song, you take down Reuniclus easily. Perish Song also helps against SubDD Gyarados, as while Vaporeon can take down nearly all Gyarados sets, that one gives it trouble. Celebi on the other hand can beat that set with Perish Song. With Waterfall and Bounce as its two attacking moves, you can switch to Celebi rather riskfree. If Gyarados doesn't Bounce on the switchin, you can Perish Song safely as Bounce has a charge turn, and you force it out. If it does Bounce, you can switch to Vaporeon and Wish, or to Heatran and back to Celebi on the Waterfall.

Also, I recommend that you drop the Speed EVs on Heatran, which are kind of a waste, and put them all in Special Defense for a 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD spread. Those Speed EVs outspeed Adamant 252 Spe Scizor, but first of all they are rather rare and don't always carry either Superpower or Brick Break, and even if they do you have a solid check in Nidoqueen or even Salamence.

 

[AnyaAlstreim]

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Cool team. There were three things I noticed: the first is how redundant Slowbro is on your team. Pretty much all things it beats which other bulky Waters don't are already handled. One of Slowbro's biggest advantages is taking on Fighting-types, but with Nidoqueen, physically defensive Celebi, and Intimidate Salamence, and Scizor for Terrakion, no Fighting-type can ever give you trouble even with Slowbro gone. Second, Starmie, and other powerful special Water-types such as Politoed in the rain can trouble you. Life Orb Starmie with Hydro Pump / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam 2HKOes everything on your team, so nothing can really switch in reliably. Scizor, Nidoqueen, and Heatran are OHKOed by Hydro Pump, Salamence is OHKOed by Ice Beam, Slowbro is 2HKOed by Thunderbolt and can't harm Starmie, and Celebi is 2HKOed by Ice Beam. Basically, you have to sac something and bring in Celebi every time it comes in. Finally, your team is kinda weak to residual damage: Salamence takes Life Orb, Stealth Rock and potential sand damage, and Scizor takes Stealth Rock and possible Spikes damage every time it U-turns. Nidoqueen and Heatran are important wallls for your team, but without recovery that can be hard.

What I suggest to fix this all, is replacing Slowbro with a Vaporeon. Vaporeon can handle things such as Life Orb Starmie easily, as with the right spread Vaporeon isn't even 2HKOed by Life Orb Thunderbolt thanks to Protect. Vaporeon also provides your team with Wish support, which is very useful for Salamence, Scizor, Nidoqueen, and Heatran. The exact set is:

Hide

Vaporeon @ Leftovers | Water Absorb
Bold | 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Wish / Protect / Scald / Toxic

As for some smaller changes, consider Perish Song > Hidden Power Fire on Celebi. There are several reasons for this. First of all, when faced with a Calm Mind Reuniclus with Life Orb and Psyshock, your Celebi loses. +6 Giga Drain only does about 20% to a +6 Reuniclus, so a crit will not mean you'll take it down. On the other hand, a +6 LO Psyshock from Reuniclus 2HKOes your Celebi about half of the time. With Perish Song, you take down Reuniclus easily. Perish Song also helps against SubDD Gyarados, as while Vaporeon can take down nearly all Gyarados sets, that one gives it trouble. Celebi on the other hand can beat that set with Perish Song. With Waterfall and Bounce as its two attacking moves, you can switch to Celebi rather riskfree. If Gyarados doesn't Bounce on the switchin, you can Perish Song safely as Bounce has a charge turn, and you force it out. If it does Bounce, you can switch to Vaporeon and Wish, or to Heatran and back to Celebi on the Waterfall.

Also, I recommend that you drop the Speed EVs on Heatran, which are kind of a waste, and put them all in Special Defense for a 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD spread. Those Speed EVs outspeed Adamant 252 Spe Scizor, but first of all they are rather rare and don't always carry either Superpower or Brick Break, and even if they do you have a solid check in Nidoqueen or even Salamence.

The primary reason I carry HP-Fire is due to how common Scizors and Ferrothorns come in on Celebi. I spend a lot of time getting my +3/4, I don't want to lose it just like that. I know what you mean by Perish Song is really good, but I have no idea where to put it.

For Heatran, I decided to give it a total of 108 EVs to outspeed the plethora of Sleep Powder users, and as a result, the additional 52 EVs were put into SpD to make it tankier.

 

[AnyaAlstreim]

Changes made, updating Threat List.
Changes in Lime

 

[Lord Wallace]

Awesome team dude,I'm glad to see that someone else is using Nidoqueen.
I see a slight problem with other team's entry hazards. Salamence and Scizor will hate Stealth Rocks and Vaporeon and Celebi wont appreciate TSpikes. Vaporeon doesn't seem to be doing much on the team besides passing Wishes,so I recommend that you replace Vaporeon with offensive Starmie.
Right now most of your team is pretty darn slow,and Starmie offers swift offensive power along with Rapid Spin. He also has a better movepool than Vappy,namely his access to Thunderbolt(which is pretty useful since once Salamence is gone,Gyarados gives you issues).
Toxic also completely shuts Vaporeon down,while Starmie isn't due to Natural Cure.

However,if you're dead set on using Vaporeon then use Heal Bell> Calm Mind on Celebi. You wont get the chance to set up all that often anyway thanks to a plethora of weaknesses,while Heal Bell can potentially save you if Scizor gets burned,Mence paralyzed,or Vaporeon is poisoned.

Jellicent is another good option thanks to it's ability to spinblock,something this team would greatly appreciate. Unfortunately it is still shit on by Toxic and functions pretty similarly to Vaporeon,however,Jelli has access to a secondary STAB that can help you with Starmie,Gengar and Alakazam plus access to Will o Wisp.

Also,since you're using Wish on Vaporeon,give it some more HP EVs.

 

[AnyaAlstreim]

Awesome team dude,I'm glad to see that someone else is using Nidoqueen.
I see a slight problem with other team's entry hazards. Salamence and Scizor will hate Stealth Rocks and Vaporeon and Celebi wont appreciate TSpikes. Vaporeon doesn't seem to be doing much on the team besides passing Wishes,so I recommend that you replace Vaporeon with offensive Starmie.
Right now most of your team is pretty darn slow,and Starmie offers swift offensive power along with Rapid Spin. He also has a better movepool than Vappy,namely his access to Thunderbolt(which is pretty useful since once Salamence is gone,Gyarados gives you issues).
Toxic also completely shuts Vaporeon down,while Starmie isn't due to Natural Cure.

However,if you're dead set on using Vaporeon then use Heal Bell> Calm Mind on Celebi. You wont get the chance to set up all that often anyway thanks to a plethora of weaknesses,while Heal Bell can potentially save you if Scizor gets burned,Mence paralyzed,or Vaporeon is poisoned.

Jellicent is another good option thanks to it's ability to spinblock,something this team would greatly appreciate. Unfortunately it is still shit on by Toxic and functions pretty similarly to Vaporeon,however,Jelli has access to a secondary STAB that can help you with Starmie,Gengar and Alakazam plus access to Will o Wisp.

Also,since you're using Wish on Vaporeon,give it some more HP EVs.

For Celebi, note that I have switched to a more offensive variant and Calm Mind is gone. Vaporeon is more of a defensive pivot than a Wish-passer, since Heatran can tank enough more often than not. I also realised the problem with the team being slow, but I am not sure what to take out since each and every member plays a somewhat crucial role.