SS OU RMT: SS OU Bulky Offense, peaked roughly 1590 (what can be finetuned here?)

[Deku Bomber]

Trying to adapt a team I was quite fond of and brought over from late gen 7.

Team:


Gaston (Landorus-Therian) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 12 Def / 244 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Defog

Lando-T is my scarfer, ground and electric immunity, intimidate pivot, occasional sweeper, and emergency defogger. I've been wondering about a non-choiced set but then Nidoking is almost forfeit on preview.


Kos (Dragapult) (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hex
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Ball
- U-turn

Ahh, Kos... or some say Dragapult. Had the boots set here before with Wisp over Sball. It's a very fun set but I desperately needed breaking power. 2hits a number of important targets, spinblocks Excadrill, an answer Chomp and Hydreigon barring scarf variants, helps the choiced Lele matchup, can pivot with U-turn, and importantly is a much-needed answer to Sub users. Hex benefits from Tspikes support on Pex.


Quelaag (Heatran) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 244 HP / 132 SpA / 132 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt

SpDef trapper Tran. I REALLY want toxic over rocks here, and I'm on the fence about her spread or if I should run a modest set. A pretty solid answer to Mandi, metal birds, Melm assuming storm hits, opposing Tran though that can be a coin flip, obviously Ferro, and more.


ExDeath (Ferrothorn) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Knock Off
- Power Whip
- Spikes
- Leech Seed

Ferro is my favorite competitive Pokemon. Knock, Hazards, Seed, passive damage via barbs, and a damage move in Pwhip to handle Fini and friends a bit easier, and also kills Pert. I was iffy about Power Whip over Stealth Rock or twave in that slot so Tran is free to run Toxic.

0 speed is my personal tech against the rare Trick Room team.


Kagami (Toxapex) (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic Spikes
- Haze
- Recover

Pex has some serious 4MSS. Tspikes can be hit or miss, though they actually hurt Fini due to hazards having priority over abilities. Walls Rilla without High Horsepower, is an emergency stop to Kartana among other things, stalls Lucha's SD barring tpunch, though it requires proper prediction on when to switch in. Baits Slow family, random burns cripple physical setup sweepers with some luck. What else is there to say, it's Pex.


Navi (Clefable) (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 198 Def / 60 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled
- Moonblast
- Thunder

Probably the star of the team, no pun intended. Surprisingly bulky to everything short of STAB steel moves. Doesn't need her life orb too badly, given how often I switch her in on Knock. I chose thunder over tbolt even though I HATE low accuracy because she just has the bulk and the recovery to afford a miss or 3. +6 Clef vs Clef is a bizarrely common occurrence and I prefer Thunder if I'm fishing for a para.

Major threat list:

Nidoking. I absolutely hate this thing. He's way too strong and has coverage for almost literally everything on the 4 attack set. Tran can't even outspeed him without going timid. All but guaranteed to lose at least 1 mon to this.

Hawlucha. If I see terrain and Lucha I need to think on my feet and switch in Pex or Clef as this stupid bird comes in to either haze or kill him outright with moonblast as he SDs. +2 Acrobatics with Unburden activated is obnoxiously powerful.

Opposing Heatran. More annoying than threatening. I somehow always seem to lose Tran vs Tran matchups, my biggest reason for considering a more aggressive EV spread.

Tapu Lele. I hate this Magic Pot looking thing so much. But recently I've gotten better at dealing with him given a lot of Lele are choiced and this can be taken advantage of.

Well, that's it. I wanted to do a proper RMT as things can get confusing on the Discord. I'll leave the Paste below. Unfortunately I have no replays saved right now, maybe in a future edit. What you guys think? Good or meh?

Paste: https://pokepast.es/53c017f9f54ec94d

Alternative sets I'm on the fence about: https://pokepast.es/73c9669e7a0fa9b1

 

[VTaxi]

If you want Toxic over Stealth Rocks on Heatran, then why not move rocks over to Ferrothorn?

ExDeath (Ferrothorn) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Knock Off
- Power Whip
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
On Clef, Flamethrower/Fire Blast imo may be more beneficial since Ferrothorn can just compelety ruin your sweep and cause some problems.

Navi (Clefable) (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 198 Def / 60 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower/Fire Blast
Otherwise, this is a really good team :)

 

[Deku Bomber]

Thanks for the suggestion VTaxi

Bump for visibility.

(Also... how do I add sprites?)

 

[A Welcome Guest]

just do :ss/pokemon: or :pokemon:
Like

 

[Deku Bomber]

just do :ss/pokemon: or :pokemon:
Like

Thanks.

 

[Deku Bomber]

Bump one last time for visibility.

 

[tysgod]

Hi, your team has poor speed control except for your Dragapult and your Landorus-T and I think you could use a cleanup sweeper or a main wallbreaker. i suggest using a subroost Kyurem , since it pairs pretty well with Toxapex , Heatran , Ferrothorn , and Clefable . The trick is to find a mon to replace. Below I will have the set below and you can choose which one to replace.



Kyurem @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Icicle Spear
- Substitute
- Roost

This Kyurem is pretty special. Heavy-Duty Boots for hazard immunity, and a interesting EV spread. some in HP for bulk, 200 in SpA for stronger hits, and max speed to outspeed mons. Freeze-Dry to beat water types, Icicle Spear for special walls. Substitue is to cower behind a doll and roost to recover if your doll dies.

 

[Deku Bomber]

Hi, your team has poor speed control except for your Dragapult and your Landorus-T and I think you could use a cleanup sweeper or a main wallbreaker. i suggest using a subroost Kyurem , since it pairs pretty well with Toxapex , Heatran , Ferrothorn , and Clefable . The trick is to find a mon to replace. Below I will have the set below and you can choose which one to replace.



Kyurem @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Icicle Spear
- Substitute
- Roost

This Kyurem is pretty special. Heavy-Duty Boots for hazard immunity, and a interesting EV spread. some in HP for bulk, 200 in SpA for stronger hits, and max speed to outspeed mons. Freeze-Dry to beat water types, Icicle Spear for special walls. Substitue is to cower behind a doll and roost to recover if your doll dies.

My Clef also has thunder for easier para fishing as a kind of speed control, albeit luck-based.

My issue with that particular Kyurem is that being even weaker against opposing Heatran is not something I wanna be. If I were to even consider Kyurem (he's a good mon thanks to all his new toys this gen honestly) I think I'd go scarf with Earth Power. He needs a way to deal with Tran.

 

[VTaxi]

Honestly, in my eyes, this team is already fairly balanced, and can deal with Heatran pretty well already.
If you really hate Heatran that much, then I can formally suggest a NP Roost Hydreigon.

Hydreigon @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Flamethrower
- Nasty Plot
- Roost
But again, this is already a very balanced team and has a lot of mons that can already handle Heatran.

 

[Deku Bomber]

Honestly, in my eyes, this team is already fairly balanced, and can deal with Heatran pretty well already.
If you really hate Heatran that much, then I can formally suggest a NP Roost Hydreigon.

Hydreigon @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Flamethrower
- Nasty Plot
- Roost
But again, this is already a very balanced team and has a lot of mons that can already handle Heatran.

A third fighting weakness is really pushing it. I think you're right that I have just enough counterplay to Tran (Lando/Tran cores are annoying still). But Tran vs Tran is often a 50/50. I do think Hydrei is good as I used it over Pult briefly, but it's hard to slot in without gimping my team pretty severely.

 

[A Welcome Guest]

Hydreigon @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Flamethrower
- Nasty Plot
- Roost

Why no STAB move lmao

 

[VTaxi]

Why no STAB move lmao

Having STAB/no STAB heavily depends on the user. In my opinion, having Dark Pulse / Earth Power leaves Hydreigon not being able to touch SpDef Mandibuzz, even at +6.

+6 252 SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz: 189-222 (44.5 - 52.3%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO

Having Dark Pulse / Flamethrower (which imo isnt as great) will get walled by Ttar.

+6 252 SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Umbreon: 167-197 (42.3 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+6 252 SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 122-144 (30.1 - 35.6%) -- 32.3% chance to 3HKO

Having Earth Power / Flamethrower can help this team deal with Corviknight.

+6 252 SpA Hydreigon Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Corviknight: 788-928 (197 - 232%) -- guaranteed OHKO

tl;dr
Depends on user/team, Flamethrower for Ferro/Corv, Earth Power for Heatran, Dark Pulse for STAB
In my opinion, I really like the coverage provided by Earth Power/Flamethrower.

 

[Animesh_]

Hey Deku Bomber! Sorry for the delay on the rate. I've been testing the team and I know it's a little difficult to use Toxic Spikes since Heavy Duty Boots are everywhere and the tier has a lot of Defoggers, but with proper prediction and offensive pressure, the team can be very threatening. I had a lot of fun with the team while testing it, however, I think there are a few issues that need to be addressed. First of all, the team is very weak to opposing Specs Dragapult, as it usually carries Flamethrower for Ferrrothorn and can spam Shadow Ball against the rest of the team. The team also struggles against Offensive teams, as Dragapult is the only fast Pokemon and Landorus-T doesn't like being locked into Earthquake. Opposing Heatran, Nidoking, Tapu Lele, Hydreigon, and SubRoost Kyurem are also hard to play against. Finally, it is also worth mentioning that Zamazenta-C, though being suspect tested, is also very deadly for the team. With all this in mind I'll get into it:

Major Changes:

->Choice Band Rillaboom fits in the team better because it can pressure Offensive teams with Grassy Glide. It gives speed control and not only supports the team with passive recovery via Grassy Terrain, but also weakens Earthquake aimed at Heatran and Toxapex, and can also lure Mandibuzz, Corviknight, and Skarmory for Heatran to take advantage of. Rillaboom also checks the aforementioned threats, namely Tapu Lele and Nidoking. Overall, it has a good synergy with the team. Adamant nature is better, so I used that, but you can always change it to Jolly to speed tie with opposing Rillaboom. I used Superpower in the set instead of Wood Hammer for opposing Ferrothorn, Heatran, and because Zamazenta-C is in the tier for now, and Grassy Glide gets the job done most of the time, but it won't OHKO opposing Clefable like Wood Hammer does, so keep that in mind.

Minor Changes:

Like I said before, Dragapult is very hard to play against, so I changed the Clefable set to Specially Defensive. Because of this, Clefable can comfortably switch into Choice Specs Dragapult's Shadow Ball and can also pressure Hydreigon and SubRoost Kyurem. It is also worth mentioning that Clefable can check Tapu Koko and Tornadus-T with this set, so Heatran won't be pressured much. Flamethrower can be used in place of Thunder to pressure opposing Ferrothorn and hit Zamazenta-C super effectively on the switch, but then Clefable is walled by opposing Heatran. Leftovers can also be used instead of Life Orb as it provides passive recovery and can help bluffing a defensive set.

Now that I removed Ferrothorn and made Clefable Specially Defensive, the team was weak against Zeraora and Dragonite, so I changed the Choice Scarf set to Defensive Defogger. It eases the Zeraora and Dragonite match-up, and can help against Offensive Garchomp, Excadrill, and Zamazenta-C, lowering their attack with Intimidate, as Toxapex can get overwhelmed if it's checking multiple threats at once. Defog is not the best thing to use with Toxic Spikes, but can help in a pinch. I used Toxic to poison opposing Landorus-T and other Flying-Type Pokemon, as Toxic Spikes cannot poison them, but Knock Off can also be used to remove Boots from opposing team. Another good option would be to use Leftovers for passive recovery, but then you won't be able to punish Physical Attackers or U-Turn users.

The EV spread you used does not KO opposing Heatran, and also lacks bulk. I changed it to stardard set with some extra Speed to speed creep opposing Heatran and uninvested base 90s, while the Sp.Def allowes it to comfortably trap and KO opposing Toxapex, as it can absorb the T-Spikes and annoy the team. Heatran is very valuable for the team, so you shouldn't be risking it against opposing Heatran unless in the case of emergency. I was thinking of using toxic too, but then the team would lack a Defogger because Landorus-T will be too pressured to set and remove Hazards all by itself. You can still spread Poison with Landorus-T and Toxic Spikes anyway.

Heatran is still a threat for the team, so I changed the item to Shed Shell, as it prevents Toxapex from being trapped by opposing Heatran, giving you some breathing room against it. Between Recover, Regenerator, and Grassy Terrain, Toxapex should be healthy enough to check Scarf Kartana and Urshifu-R, along with other threats, so Black Sludge is not a necessity.

(Optional change) You can give it Heavy Duty Boots to ignore Entry Hazards and can run this set, as it allows Dragapult to switch moves and spread status for a late game sweep for both Clefable and itself. However, this set lacks the immediate power that Choice Specs provides and mostly relies on status because Hex is weak without it. You said you already tried it, so you can stick with the Specs set, but feel free to switch between them, as both are great.


Final Team:
(Click the spirits for importables.)

I hope you like the suggestions and it proves effective for you. There are still a few threatening Pokemon you have to play carefully around such as Tapu Lele, Nidoking, Hawlucha, and opposing Heatran, but as I mentioned before, Rillaboom checks the former two and Hawlucha can be checked by Landorus-T and Toxapex. As for Heatran, between Knock Off, Superpower, and Shed Shell Toxapex, you can outplay it with proper predictions. Also, be careful with Rillaboom, as opposing Pokemon can recover from Grassy Terrain. Choice Band Kartana is troublesome too, but you can Scout the move with Toxapex and can make appropriate plays from there. I didn't mentioned Specs Kyurem because nothing walls it anyway, and you can always pressure it with Rocks up and Dragapult. If you have any questions regarding the team, just let me know. Forgive me for any mistakes because it's been some time since I have rated a team. Have fun with the team and good luck for your future endeavours.

 

[Deku Bomber]

Hey Deku Bomber! Sorry for the delay on the rate. I've been testing the team and I know it's a little difficult to use Toxic Spikes since Heavy Duty Boots are everywhere and the tier has a lot of Defoggers, but with proper prediction and offensive pressure, the team can be very threatening. I had a lot of fun with the team while testing it, however, I think there are a few issues that need to be addressed. First of all, the team is very weak to opposing Specs Dragapult, as it usually carries Flamethrower for Ferrrothorn and can spam Shadow Ball against the rest of the team. The team also struggles against Offensive teams, as Dragapult is the only fast Pokemon and Landorus-T doesn't like being locked into Earthquake. Opposing Heatran, Nidoking, Tapu Lele, Hydreigon, and SubRoost Kyurem are also hard to play against. Finally, it is also worth mentioning that Zamazenta-C, though being suspect tested, is also very deadly for the team. With all this in mind I'll get into it:

Major Changes:

->Choice Band Rillaboom fits in the team better because it can pressure Offensive teams with Grassy Glide. It gives speed control and not only supports the team with passive recovery via Grassy Terrain, but also weakens Earthquake aimed at Heatran and Toxapex, and can also lure Mandibuzz, Corviknight, and Skarmory for Heatran to take advantage of. Rillaboom also checks the aforementioned threats, namely Tapu Lele and Nidoking. Overall, it has a good synergy with the team. Adamant nature is better, so I used that, but you can always change it to Jolly to speed tie with opposing Rillaboom. I used Superpower in the set instead of Wood Hammer for opposing Ferrothorn, Heatran, and because Zamazenta-C is in the tier for now, and Grassy Glide gets the job done most of the time, but it won't OHKO opposing Clefable like Wood Hammer does, so keep that in mind.

Minor Changes:

Like I said before, Dragapult is very hard to play against, so I changed the Clefable set to Specially Defensive. Because of this, Clefable can comfortably switch into Choice Specs Dragapult's Shadow Ball and can also pressure Hydreigon and SubRoost Kyurem. It is also worth mentioning that Clefable can check Tapu Koko and Tornadus-T with this set, so Heatran won't be pressured much. Flamethrower can be used in place of Thunder to pressure opposing Ferrothorn and hit Zamazenta-C super effectively on the switch, but then Clefable is walled by opposing Heatran. Leftovers can also be used instead of Life Orb as it provides passive recovery and can help bluffing a defensive set.

Now that I removed Ferrothorn and made Clefable Specially Defensive, the team was weak against Zeraora and Dragonite, so I changed the Choice Scarf set to Defensive Defogger. It eases the Zeraora and Dragonite match-up, and can help against Offensive Garchomp, Excadrill, and Zamazenta-C, lowering their attack with Intimidate, as Toxapex can get overwhelmed if it's checking multiple threats at once. Defog is not the best thing to use with Toxic Spikes, but can help in a pinch. I used Toxic to poison opposing Landorus-T and other Flying-Type Pokemon, as Toxic Spikes cannot poison them, but Knock Off can also be used to remove Boots from opposing team. Another good option would be to use Leftovers for passive recovery, but then you won't be able to punish Physical Attackers or U-Turn users.

The EV spread you used does not KO opposing Heatran, and also lacks bulk. I changed it to stardard set with some extra Speed to speed creep opposing Heatran and uninvested base 90s, while the Sp.Def allowes it to comfortably trap and KO opposing Toxapex, as it can absorb the T-Spikes and annoy the team. Heatran is very valuable for the team, so you shouldn't be risking it against opposing Heatran unless in the case of emergency. I was thinking of using toxic too, but then the team would lack a Defogger because Landorus-T will be too pressured to set and remove Hazards all by itself. You can still spread Poison with Landorus-T and Toxic Spikes anyway.

Heatran is still a threat for the team, so I changed the item to Shed Shell, as it prevents Toxapex from being trapped by opposing Heatran, giving you some breathing room against it. Between Recover, Regenerator, and Grassy Terrain, Toxapex should be healthy enough to check Scarf Kartana and Urshifu-R, along with other threats, so Black Sludge is not a necessity.

(Optional change) You can give it Heavy Duty Boots to ignore Entry Hazards and can run this set, as it allows Dragapult to switch moves and spread status for a late game sweep for both Clefable and itself. However, this set lacks the immediate power that Choice Specs provides and mostly relies on status because Hex is weak without it. You said you already tried it, so you can stick with the Specs set, but feel free to switch between them, as both are great.


Final Team:
(Click the spirits for importables.)

I hope you like the suggestions and it proves effective for you. There are still a few threatening Pokemon you have to play carefully around such as Tapu Lele, Nidoking, Hawlucha, and opposing Heatran, but as I mentioned before, Rillaboom checks the former two and Hawlucha can be checked by Landorus-T and Toxapex. As for Heatran, between Knock Off, Superpower, and Shed Shell Toxapex, you can outplay it with proper predictions. Also, be careful with Rillaboom, as opposing Pokemon can recover from Grassy Terrain. Choice Band Kartana is troublesome too, but you can Scout the move with Toxapex and can make appropriate plays from there. I didn't mentioned Specs Kyurem because nothing walls it anyway, and you can always pressure it with Rocks up and Dragapult. If you have any questions regarding the team, just let me know. Forgive me for any mistakes because it's been some time since I have rated a team. Have fun with the team and good luck for your future endeavours.

Appreciate the very in-depth look. I might test these changes, at least the Clef and Tran spreads if nothing else. I think you might be right about Pult running the boots set too, as I started testing that and it's been putting in work. Rilla has been on my mind, and makes sense paired with Tran and defensive Lando. Ferro is my favorite competitive Pokemon though, so I'm a little reluctant to drop him.

On the subject of threats: Nidoking is still awful, but he's been a rare sight lately and I'm not sure why. Zamazenta has just been kinda.... there. I'm not sure if I've felt threatened or not by him while laddering, he just kind of exists. Hawlucha can sweep my entire team if I let him SD. So I've been switching into Pex or Clef as soon as I see terrain on a Lucha team. Pex can haze and Clef can kill him outright, but he's still a threat. Lele is usually choiced, and I can play around that, but he still hits like a nuke. Opposing Tran tanking my EP with 10% health left makes me think you might be right about the set. Corvi and Mandi are easily abused by Heatran and are setup fodder for Clef. I just need to keep those two alive.

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[vNatFly]

Hi, your team has poor speed control except for your Dragapult and your Landorus-T and I think you could use a cleanup sweeper or a main wallbreaker. i suggest using a subroost Kyurem , since it pairs pretty well with Toxapex , Heatran , Ferrothorn , and Clefable . The trick is to find a mon to replace. Below I will have the set below and you can choose which one to replace.



Kyurem @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Icicle Spear
- Substitute
- Roost

This Kyurem is pretty special. Heavy-Duty Boots for hazard immunity, and a interesting EV spread. some in HP for bulk, 200 in SpA for stronger hits, and max speed to outspeed mons. Freeze-Dry to beat water types, Icicle Spear for special walls. Substitue is to cower behind a doll and roost to recover if your doll dies.

lol why would u add a kyurem for speed control? its not even 100 base speed, also u said it urself; he has a scarf lando and pult. thats enough speed control. also, isnt that kyurem spread from sm ou?

 

[A Welcome Guest]

lol why would u add a kyurem for speed control? its not even 100 base speed, also u said it urself; he has a scarf lando and pult. thats enough speed control. also, isnt that kyurem spread from sm ou?

I agree with the part saying that Kyurem is not very good speed control, but that isn't the spread for SM OU Kyurem. In that tier, Kyurem uses either Metronome or Icium Z as its item and it actually runs 4 Special Defense EVs alongside 56 HP to survive Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast. Also in Gen 7, it doesn't even learn Icicle Spear or Freeze Dry, so it'd have to run the classice Ice Beam + Earth Power combo.

 

[16BR]

add zeraora, dragapult, kyurem, rillaboom, sd chomp/lando to the threat list. weavile and bisharp are dangerous too altho pex and ferro can kind of keep them in control. i like animesh’s changes but still gotta be careful of rillaboom

 

[Crunchman]

heatran should be male, as eruption is only obtainable on male heatran (and thus having a female gives away the information that its not eruption)

 

[Deku Bomber]

add zeraora, dragapult, kyurem, rillaboom, sd chomp/lando to the threat list. weavile and bisharp are dangerous too altho pex and ferro can kind of keep them in control. i like animesh’s changes but still gotta be careful of rillaboom

None of these are anywhere near as threatening as Nido or Tran, besides maybe Chomp in my experiences. I kinda just need to predict Rilla and U-turn wears him down fast. Can't do much to pult besides knock. Wood hammer does 1shot Clef though. Kyurem is a problem if I've lost Ferro but Ferro does check him.