RMT - The Unexpected

[wildfire393]

Hello Smogon. This is a team that I have been tinkering with for a while, and I can't quite seem to get it right. My latest iteration seems to be the most consistent, but I'd like to see what you all think.

Heatran (M) @ Wide Lens
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP/18 SAtk/240 SDef
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Magma Storm
- Will-o-wisp
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power

My special blend Lead-Tran. Magma Storm might seem like a questionable choice, until you realize what it does to Focus Sash leads. Things like Suicide Azelf get entirely wrecked by this. Yes, they get Rocks up, but they then die immediately. There's a slight chance they live the first hit with a low percentage, especially if they've invested a little in HP, but in that case you just get rocks up as their Psychic/Explosion/Fireblast does nothing to you and they die to the residual damage.
Will-o-Wisp takes care of any sort of physical attacker lead. With Heatran's bulkiness, he can live an EQ from a burned Swampert or Tyranitar and proceed to set up Rocks on the second turn, or simply switch to something else that will absorb the EQ and proceed to set up or KO.
Stealth Rocks are always a boon to have on a team, no other explanation is really required for that. Against something that's very likely to switch out, like Bronzong, these come up for free. Otherwise you can usually find time to get them up at some point.
Earth Power is so that Fire and Rock types can take a hefty hit from Heatran as well, and can be used to bait and kill opposing Scarftrans.
His Bulkyness also allows him to live a Skymin Earth Power at full HP and OHKO back with Magma Storm.
Wide Lens is to increase the accuracy of Magma Storm and Will-o-Wisp, reducing the number of misses.
Team Support: Stealth rocks, obviously. Number 1 go-to guy to absorb Fire and Ice attacks, as well as Psychic, Dark, Dragon, Poison, and Grass. Even without attack EVs, Magma Storm provides a hugely powerful special attack, capable of putting a decent dent in things like Rotom Formes.
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Togekiss (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk/106 Spd/152 SAtk
Naughty nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- ExtremeSpeed
- Aura Sphere
- Flamethrower
- Roost
MixKiss, another special blend. ExtremeSpeed is fantastic at picking off fragile sweepers, making this my go-to revenge killer. After seeing ExtremeSpeed, the opponent usually switches in a Steel or Rock physical wall, which usually means Aura Sphere or Flamethrower lands me ANOTHER KO. This also frequently opens up the way for another of my Physical Sweepers to Sweep.
Roost keeps Togekiss alive with Life Orb, Stealth Rock, attacks, and Sandstorm wearing down its HP, but I find I don't often have time to use it. Perhaps Focus Punch would be better suited for this slot?
Team Support: Revenge Kills Fragile Sweepers, removes Physical Walls. Absorbs Ground and Ghost type attacks, as well as being a decent option for Flying Type attacks.
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Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 216 HP/18 Atk/132 Def/144 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Taunt
- Waterfall

Standard Issue BulkyDos. Still screws people up, as Taunt can deal with many of DDGyara's standard counters. One of the most potent members of the team, and indeed, of the entire metagame, he is frequently capable of sweeping half or more of opposing teams on its own.
Team Support: Primary sweeping option for the team. Absorbs Ground attacks, as well as being a decent option for Fire, Water, Fighting and Steel attacks. Intimidate does a good job of shutting down Physical attackers.
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Flygon (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 40 HP/252 Atk/216 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Crunch

Support/Sweep Flygon. Early game, U-Turn can be used to Scout for Switche. Late game, a Choiced STAB Earthquake or Outrage off of 100 Base attack can sweep quite a few things. Crunch is the team's best option against things like Rotom Formes.
Team Support: U-Turn scouting support is helpful. Number one go-to guy to absorb Electric attacks aimed at Vaporeon or Gyarados, as well as being a good Rock Resist and a decent Fire resist. And, of course, he can absorb Ground attacks, though there is no lack of that on this team.
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Rotom-h @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 36 HP/252 Spd/222 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Discharge
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Trick

Anti-Sweeper Rotom. Discharge takes down Gyardos. HP Ice Takes down Salamence. Speed is enough that he outspeeds either of these after a DD. Overheat is for Scizor and Lucario. Electric typing allows him to resist Bullet Punch and Ghost typing eliminates ExtremeSpeed as an option, allowing him to early force out or KO all of these threats.
Trick allows Rotom to cripple Blissey or other walls. Usually Blissey, as the annoying pink blob just loves to switch in to this guy.
Team Support - Cripples walls with Trick, stops sweepers that Togekiss cannot. Absorbs Fighting, Normal, and Ground attacks, as well as Electric, Flying, and Steel fairly easily.
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Vaporeon (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Def/5 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Surf
- Wish
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]

SpecsPoreon. Great at absorbing attacks, and can dish out incredibly powerful blows in response. Between Surf, Ice Beam, and HP Electric, there are few things that can switch in without taking a huge chunk of damage. Wish provides a way to heal up other members of the team, who lack their own recovery. Though, due to specs, it is not a great option for self-healing, as you would have to skip an attack to get it.
I'd be most willing to change this member of the team, if there are any better suggestions for this slot.
Team Support: Best Water Absorber, good at taking Ice, Steel, and Fire hits. Wish can heal up the rest of the team.
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Threat List:
Heatran - My Heatran absorbs his Fire attacks and forces him out, and can bait him into an Earth Power. Vaporeon, Gyarados, and Flygon can all also resist his fire attacks and hit him back Super-effectively.
Scizor - Heatran Double Resists Bullet Punch, Gyarados, Vaporeon, and Rotom-h Resist Bullet Punch. If that alone doesn't neuter his sweeping potential, Heatran and Rotom pack 2X Super Effective Fire Moves. Gyarados's intimidate and Heatran's Will-o-Wisp also neuter his offensive potential. Togekiss will not be OHKO'd by a +2 BP and can KO back with Flamethrower.
Salamence - Gyarados can come in with the Intimidate and hit with super effective Stone Edge. Rotom-H outspeeds even with 1 Dragon Dance and should OHKO any non-Yache version with HP Ice. Vaporeon is bulky enough not to be OHKO'd by a +1 Dragon claw, and easily OHKOs back. Togekiss can revenge kill if he's down to about 60% from Rocks/Orb/Sandstorm.
Zapdos - Flygon is immune to Thunderbolt and resists Heat Wave, meaning unless Zapdos packs HP Ice, he's a good counter. Heatran can come in on a Heat Wave and deal a huge amount back with Magma Storm. Togekiss can 2HKO with ExtremeSpeed if he switches into Rocks.
Blissey - Rotom's Trick cripples her, and she's all to quick to switch into him despite this. Togekiss can 2HKO with ExtremeSpeed if she switches into rocks. Gyarados will absolutely ruin Blisseys who do not run Tbolt, as her other options get Taunted and she then gets set up on.
Gyarados - Rotom obviously wrecks him, as he can come in and outspeeds Gyara after 1 DD and OHKOs with Discharge. Vaporeon again takes little from his attacks and can OHKO back with HP Electric. Togekiss can revenge kill if he's down to about 60% from Rocks/Orb/Sandstorm.
Lucario - Rotom is the best answer here, resisting Bullet Punch, being immune to ExtremeSpeed/Aura Sphere/Close Combat, outspeeding the potential Crunch/Dark Pulse, and OHKOing with Overheat. Gyarados intimidates and deals a large chunk with Waterfall. Togekiss and Heatran won't die to his Priority moves and can KO with their Fire moves, but he's likely to take a chunk out of them with Close Cobat.
Gengar - Nothing specifically counters Gengar, but he's not exactly the most sturdy of opponents. He scares of Gyara, but once he's slept something (or misses a hypnosis), any strong hit takes him down, particularly Flygon's Crunch.
Ttar - Togekiss tends to lure him in once ExtremeSpeed rears its head. At this point, Aura Sphere can deal a huge amount to him, and Togekiss outspeeds all but Jolly Versions. Versions without a large HP inversment can be OHKO'd with rocks. Vaporeon will do a lot more than he'd expect, which can catch Ttar offguard and potentially score KOs if he was looking for an easy switch-in on Vaporeon. Flygon resists his Rock STAB attacks and deals a huge amount to him with U-Turn and Earthquake. Heatran can burn him and deals a decent amount with Earth Power.
Skymin - Hopefully not a threat much longer. Heatran lives an Earth Power at full HP and OHKOs back with Magma Storm. Rotom outspeeds and can KO with Overheat or HP Ice. Togekiss revenge kills with ExtremeSpeed if he's taken some damage.
Metagross - Rotom resists Meteor Mash and is immune to EQ, and easily KOs with Overheat. Togekiss deals a good chunk with Flamethrower, and Heatran can ruin his offensive potential with Will-o-Wisp or just destroy him with Magma Storm, as well as 2X resisting Meteor Mash, but EQ will destroy him. Flygon's EQ will deal a sizeable chunk to him.

And that's the top 11 from October, so I'll stop the list there. If there are any threats you feel I should address, please list them.

 

[panamaxis]

I've played against this team so take that into account when listening to my advice. Dragonbreath is a really bad option on Flygon. It gave me so many safe switches and with only a 30% chance to paralyse its not worth it. Change Dragonbreath into Outrage and Crunch into fire blast or fire punch. Leftovers / Shuca Berry on your Heatran, wide lends isn't worth it IMO. (although i really like that idea to screw up sashers).

Looks okay otherwise.

 

[wildfire393]

I've played against this team so take that into account when listening to my advice. Dragonbreath is a really bad option on Flygon. It gave me so many safe switches and with only a 30% chance to paralyse its not worth it. Change Dragonbreath into Outrage and Crunch into fire blast or fire punch. Leftovers / Shuca Berry on your Heatran, wide lends isn't worth it IMO. (although i really like that idea to screw up sashers).

Looks okay otherwise.

Yeah, Dragonbreath didn't turn out as good as I'd hoped it would be. I've seen 8 consecutive hits without a Paralyze before. Crunch I haven't used often, but I like to have it as an option against Rotoms and Celebi and such.
Wide Lens has proved useful for me. Shuca Berry doesn't seem all that good, as, with Will-o-Wisp support and its investment in Special Defense EVs, it can live many Earthquakes and Earth Powers (though with little left). If they're going to be 2HKOs anyways, reducing the damage of the first hit doesn't make a huge difference. Leftovers also don't seem like the best option, as I don't think they would prolong his life noticeably. I'd rather be able to rely on Mag Storm and Will-o-Wisp when I need them.
But yeah, definitely modifying Flygon.

 

[wildfire393]

24 Hour Bump.

Please, I would very much like to hear what people's thoughts are on this, as I have spent much time tuning this team.

 

[wildfire393]

Not really a rate, but you can put Starmie in your threat list. It takes out every member except rotom. Not sure how common sweeper starmie is in shoddy but its common on wifi.

This is actually true, I saw myself have some trouble with a Starmie recently. Fortunately, dedicated sweeper, non-choiced Starmies are rare. Rapid spin builds only run one of Ice Beam or Thunderbolt, meaning that some member of my team walls and counters any specific version (Vaporeon if it doesn't run Tbolt, Flygon does a decent job if it doesn't run Ice Beam (and should OHKO with Crunch)). Choice versions can be walled with good prediction (Vaporeon on anything but Tbolt, Flygon on Tbolt). Togekiss can fairly easily revenge kill with ExtremeSpeed, especially if Rocks/Life Orb/Sandstorm have taken their toll (it will do 68-80% to a 4 HP/0 Def Neutral Natured Starmie). And Rotom is present as a counter as well. If I see this as a persistent problem, I might try switching Vaporeon for something with an Electric Resist/Immunity, but I'm not sure what, as I would like to keep my Water and Ice resists in that slot (and the only thing I can think of that resists all three is Lanturn).

 

[Ninjadead]

I can assure you extremespeed doesnt OHKO starmie, in my experiance anyway.I dont run choice on mine, either sash or expert belt, so if you face one dont under estimate itI suggest maybe an Electrive? Handles Gyara too.

 

[paramylodon]

So you're were the 1% of heatran that don't use overheat, fire blast, flamethrower, or lava plume comes from.
I do really like the idea, however; getting rid of focus sashers without using sandstorm.
I'm not sure how many of the azelfs run a lot of hp evs to survive the first turn, but if it is a moderate percent I'd consider a slightly heavier Sp.Attk investment.

You have on stealth rock resist, and two stealth rock weak pokemon, while lacking any spinner. Does this ever bother you?

 

[wildfire393]

I can assure you extremespeed doesnt OHKO starmie, in my experiance anyway.I dont run choice on mine, either sash or expert belt, so if you face one dont under estimate itI suggest maybe an Electrive? Handles Gyara too.

Note that I said that ExtremeSpeed will not OHKO starmie, I listed the damage calculation. However, with residual damage, it can make a decent revenge killer.
Electivire is someone I've tried out (in what is currently Flygon's spot) but he just didn't seem to quite get the job done.

So you're were the 1% of heatran that don't use overheat, fire blast, flamethrower, or lava plume comes from.
I do really like the idea, however; getting rid of focus sashers without using sandstorm.
I'm not sure how many of the azelfs run a lot of hp evs to survive the first turn, but if it is a moderate percent I'd consider a slightly heavier Sp.Attk investment.

You have on stealth rock resist, and two stealth rock weak pokemon, while lacking any spinner. Does this ever bother you?

Azelf HP EVs are rare, they generally run max SpA and Speed with the remaining 4 in Attack for Explosion. The great part about not KOing Azelf with Magma Storm (which happens on rare occasions) is that he is then trapped in, and the standard Azelf Set can do barely anything to Heatran as I simply set up Rocks and let Magma Storm's residual finish him off.

Stealth Rock is something that I've troubled over in the past. I used to have Claydol in Vaporeon's slot (Rapid Spin/Explosion/Earthquake/Zen Headbutt) and it did decently, but too many serious threats would just set up on him and leave me in trouble (especially things like Scizor who would resist Explosion and not take all that much from EQ). It also left my team a little Ice weak, which Vaporeon is there to hopefully remedy. The other problem with Spinners is that Rotom Formes are very common these days, so often I wouldn't get a chance to spin most of the time. I'd rather have a powerful special attacker with the rare possibility of team healing and a great set of resistances (SpecsVappy w/ Wish) than a mediocre physical attacker with the rare possibility of removing rocks and a not-so-good set of resistances (Claydol). Additionally, while rocks give me a slight agitation, Spikes only hit two members of my team and Toxic Spikes only hit 1, meaning Spinning isn't as strong of a requirement to have a decent game against Stall.

 

[dizzleman22_main!]

HEY!! :) i'l be happy to rate your team. First of all i think that the lead tran idea is great, aside from the fact that a lot of leads run taunt, which could somewhat screw you up as relying on a 70 accuracy move against an azelf that taunted you and is happily setting up, SR, Thunder Wave, etc, is not a good situation to be in. Starmie can take down every member but Rotom, but i think that Vaporeon is a solid counter to Starmie as Tbolt will do <50% and i believe HP electric can solidly 2KO it, except bulyk variants. It all looks good, so just make sure you're having fun and be successful :D.

 

[wildfire393]

HEY!! :) i'l be happy to rate your team. First of all i think that the lead tran idea is great, aside from the fact that a lot of leads run taunt, which could somewhat screw you up as relying on a 70 accuracy move against an azelf that taunted you and is happily setting up, SR, Thunder Wave, etc, is not a good situation to be in. Starmie can take down every member but Rotom, but i think that Vaporeon is a solid counter to Starmie as Tbolt will do <50% and i believe HP electric can solidly 2KO it, except bulyk variants. It all looks good, so just make sure you're having fun and be successful :D.

If Azelf taunts Heatran the first turn, 77% of the time, he ends up dead without having laid rocks. Azelf Taunting is actually the number one thing I like to see on the first turn, as it means that my team now no longer has to worry about switch-in damage.
No, the move I do dislike seeing on the first turn is Trick. Taking away Wide Lens seems to subtract MASSIVELY from Magma Storm's accuracy (seriously, I've rarely missed the first turn Mag Storm with lens, like 1 out of 10 games, but I've missed it after being tricked something like half the time). Then, if my attack misses, they get to either set up rocks or send in their own heatran to pick up flash fire and force me out.

Regarding Starmie, Max Attack Positive Nature Life Orb starmie deals 65-75% to Vaporeon with a Tbolt, and 4HP/0 Defense Starmie takes minimum 99.62% in return from Vaporeon's HP Electric. So I'm alright if I can swtich into his Surf or for revenge killing, but if I've taken much of any damage or he predicts the switch (or even Ice Beams) this can fail.