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damaGrande

Hola chicas, this team has been fun to use on Showdown so I wanted some opinions on how to improve it, especially since my meta knowledge is based only on playing Showdown. The building process started by wanting to try some bulky birds. Here goes:
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gloves (Yveltal) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Dark Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Gentle Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Oblivion Wing
- Protect
- Snarl
Provides most of my offensive pressure even though it's invested to be bulky and take a super-effective hit well. I love the option to go special or physical with sucker punch. Snarl helps with Kyogre and Xern and in setting up weakness policy, and for spread damage.
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sacredsocks (Ho-Oh) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Atk / 152 Def / 44 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Substitute
- Recover
This is taken from a team Jon Hu used in January, I just played with the EVs a bit. Another mon I wouldn't mind trading for a better one since it walls well but doesn't provide much offensive pressure (Groudon, Xerneas), and Yveltal usually does everything this Ho-oh does better. Also running into a lot of rock slide.


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venusocks (Mawile-Mega) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Play Rough
- Protect
Helps against dragons and Xerneas. Gets a boost from dark aura on Sucker Punch. Does well when I set up T-wave. Tough choice to bring her if I see a Groudon though...


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lostsocks (Rotom-Wash) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 12 Def / 160 SpA / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Hydro Pump
- Light Screen
Overall solid team member in terms of taking hits from most restricted mons and thundurus, helps set up T-wave and light screen often makes him (and my birds) tough to deal with. However, like with Ho-oh, Groudon can't do much to him but he can't do much to Groudon either...

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croissocks (Liepard) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Foul Play
- Fake Out
- Encore
- Thunder Wave
Fake out for Kang, foul play gets boosted from dark aura, encore is so annoying I feel guilty using it, and T-wave for speed control. I really like Liepard.


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whimsocks (Whimsicott) @ Mental Herb
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Swagger
- Encore
- Tailwind
- Safeguard

Mainly only bring him if I see a Smeargle in order to set up safeguard and then have the added option of swaggering my own mon. This is the mon I'd be most willing to part with because I usually prefer Liepard, but this is a more sure answer to Smeargle I thought. And I hate Smeargles.
 
okay so the team looks pretty cool, but there are a few pokemon that i'm a bit shaky on.

now your top 4 matchups are pretty cool, as you can see here:

Primal Groudon: 1 answer (Ho-oh)
Primal Kyogre: 1 answer (Rotom-W)
Xerneas: 2 answers (Mega Mawile, Ho-oh)
Smeargle: 2 answers (Whimsicott, Liepard) (though neither have taunt, which is kind of an issue)

now the one pokemon that stands out to me is Rotom-W. while sure it does check rotom-w it really doesn't do much outside of that and you can use other primal kyogre answers like thundurus, ferrothorn or amoonguss, all of which provide a niche that your team will appreciate. thundurus has prankster to help with moves like thunder wave and taunt, ferrothorn as an added steel typing which provides another xerneas check, while amoonguss provides a trick room check in after you as well as redirection and access to spore.
whimsicott feels quite redundant especially when liepard does mostly the same thing while also having swagger and foul play to help yveltal out. i recommend a landorus-t over whimsicott to have a reliable physical primal groudon answer, since ho-oh doesn't enjoy those very much. it also provides intimidate support for your other teammates to come in on attacks easier. it can also ohko kang and severly dent opposing pokemon with explosion.
the rest of the team looks good, there are only some set optimizations that can be made.
you can run try tailwind over substitute on ho-oh to provide another form of speed control for your team which is apreciated. if you choose to do this, you can try 172 speed on mawile to outrun mega rayquaza in tailwind which would be a huge benefit for your team.
you can try swagger over encore on liepard to annoy most opposing pokemon and to help foul play do as much damage as possible.

(note: brave bird from ho-oh does a considerable amount to groudon, so dont worry about that)

this rate was in a rush so if i made mistakes please forgive me. if you need any sets feel free to ask. hope i helped with the team. :)
 
I have a little time while on break so I figured I'd expand a bit on what GAG said. This team sort of fits the bill of a Dark Spam team, so I'm going to try to sort of build on that idea.

Pokemon Changes

Landorus-T over Rotom Wash

I completely agree with GAG on this change. Rotom-W struggles a lot in the format due to the Primal Weathers. He's a good check against Kyogre, but other then that, he's dead weight. With an addition of Landorus, you gain another intimidate option that can be shuffled in to lower Physical Groudon's sting. He also provides an answer to Groudon should he carry Rock Slide, which your team is very weak to.

landorus-therian.gif

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 156 Atk / 92 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
- Superpower

This is Draconid997's Landorus spread. I can't remember what he is EV'd to survive (I'll update this when I do) but with a Jolly Nature and this speed investment he outspeeds the max speed Primals by one point.

Salamence over Mawile

This one is more down to preference. Mawile is a very good Pokémon, but he struggles outside of Trick Room, and against Groudon. To help with both of these matchups, I would recommend you switch him out for Salamence. Salamence can wall Special Groudon while spamming Hyper Voice for huge damage.

salamence-mega.gif

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EV's: 4 HP/252 Sp. Atk/252 Spe
Naive Nature/Timid Nature
-Draco Meteor
-Hyper Voice
-Double-Edge/Fire Blast
-Protect

This is a pretty standard spread for Salamence. If you want to use Fire Blast to OHKO Ferrothorn, I would use a Timid Nature for obvious reasons.

Thundurus over Whimsicott

While Whimsicott is an OK Pokémon in the format, I find Thundurus to be a better answer against Smeargle, since he carries Taunt but isn't complete taunt bait. The set I'm suggesting will also be a solid check to most Kyogre.

thundurus.gif

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 36 HP / 220 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wild Charge
- Taunt / Swagger
- Thunder Wave
- Protect

Physical Thundurus is something us VGC raters have been playing around with for a little while now. It has the ability to OHKO most Kyogre, which can net you a few surprise KOs. Besides that he provides another form of speed control, which this team is lacking.

Set Changes
I'm going to try to go through these quick, because I don't have much time left before I have to get back to work.

717.gif

Yveltal @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Dark Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 196 HP / 12 Def / 68 SpA / 68 SpD / 164 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Snarl
- Dark Pulse
- Protect​

252+ Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 196 HP / 12 Def Yveltal: 192-227 (84.9 - 100.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 196 HP / 68 SpD Yveltal in Heavy Rain: 190-225 (84 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Zap Plate Raichu Volt Tackle vs. 196 HP / 12 Def Yveltal: 198-234 (87.6 - 103.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 196 HP / 68 SpD Yveltal: 187-221 (82.7 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Landorus-T Rock Slide vs. 196 HP / 12 Def Yveltal: 78-92 (34.5 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Primal Groudon Rock Slide vs. 196 HP / 12 Def Yveltal: 92-110 (40.7 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Outspeeds smeargle
This is Draconid997's Yveltal spread. The move changes are optional, but I've always preferred Dark Pulse for the extra STAB over Oblivion Wing.


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Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Atk / 152 Def / 44 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Tailwind
- Recover

I also agree with GAG on this change. Your team is lacking Speed control as it stands now. If you feel uncomfortable with going without substitute you could also put Tailwind on Salamence or Yveltal.

Other Options
Here are a few other changes worth considering for this team.

Groudon over Ho-Oh

This is another change you might consider if you're already thinking about switching out Ho-Oh. Groudon will add a Primal to your team, allowing you to get some weather control. Groudon can take Rock Slides, which as it stands your team is somewhat vulnerable to. This set is really just a placeholder until I can dig up a better one.

groudon-primal.gif

Primal-Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Level: 50
EVs: 12 HP/236 Atk/4 Def/4 Sp. Def/252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Precipice Blades
-Fire Punch/Overheat
-Rock Slide
-Protect

This spread (Suggested by Draconid997) survives an Adamant Landorus-T Earthquake.


This is all I have for now. I will definitely come back and update this with a few more thoughts when I get off. If you have any questions feel free to ask me. Good luck with your team :)
​
 
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GradeAGarchomp said:
okay so the team looks pretty cool, but there are a few pokemon that i'm a bit shaky on.

now your top 4 matchups are pretty cool, as you can see here:

Primal Groudon: 1 answer (Ho-oh)
Primal Kyogre: 1 answer (Rotom-W)
Xerneas: 2 answers (Mega Mawile, Ho-oh)
Smeargle: 2 answers (Whimsicott, Liepard) (though neither have taunt, which is kind of an issue)

now the one pokemon that stands out to me is Rotom-W. while sure it does check rotom-w it really doesn't do much outside of that and you can use other primal kyogre answers like thundurus, ferrothorn or amoonguss, all of which provide a niche that your team will appreciate. thundurus has prankster to help with moves like thunder wave and taunt, ferrothorn as an added steel typing which provides another xerneas check, while amoonguss provides a trick room check in after you as well as redirection and access to spore.
whimsicott feels quite redundant especially when liepard does mostly the same thing while also having swagger and foul play to help yveltal out. i recommend a landorus-t over whimsicott to have a reliable physical primal groudon answer, since ho-oh doesn't enjoy those very much. it also provides intimidate support for your other teammates to come in on attacks easier. it can also ohko kang and severly dent opposing pokemon with explosion.
the rest of the team looks good, there are only some set optimizations that can be made.
you can run try tailwind over substitute on ho-oh to provide another form of speed control for your team which is apreciated. if you choose to do this, you can try 172 speed on mawile to outrun mega rayquaza in tailwind which would be a huge benefit for your team.
you can try swagger over encore on liepard to annoy most opposing pokemon and to help foul play do as much damage as possible.

(note: brave bird from ho-oh does a considerable amount to groudon, so dont worry about that)

this rate was in a rush so if i made mistakes please forgive me. if you need any sets feel free to ask. hope i helped with the team. :)
Click to expand...
GradeAGarchomp said:
okay so the team looks pretty cool, but there are a few pokemon that i'm a bit shaky on.

now your top 4 matchups are pretty cool, as you can see here:

Primal Groudon: 1 answer (Ho-oh)
Primal Kyogre: 1 answer (Rotom-W)
Xerneas: 2 answers (Mega Mawile, Ho-oh)
Smeargle: 2 answers (Whimsicott, Liepard) (though neither have taunt, which is kind of an issue)

now the one pokemon that stands out to me is Rotom-W. while sure it does check rotom-w it really doesn't do much outside of that and you can use other primal kyogre answers like thundurus, ferrothorn or amoonguss, all of which provide a niche that your team will appreciate. thundurus has prankster to help with moves like thunder wave and taunt, ferrothorn as an added steel typing which provides another xerneas check, while amoonguss provides a trick room check in after you as well as redirection and access to spore.
whimsicott feels quite redundant especially when liepard does mostly the same thing while also having swagger and foul play to help yveltal out. i recommend a landorus-t over whimsicott to have a reliable physical primal groudon answer, since ho-oh doesn't enjoy those very much. it also provides intimidate support for your other teammates to come in on attacks easier. it can also ohko kang and severly dent opposing pokemon with explosion.
the rest of the team looks good, there are only some set optimizations that can be made.
you can run try tailwind over substitute on ho-oh to provide another form of speed control for your team which is apreciated. if you choose to do this, you can try 172 speed on mawile to outrun mega rayquaza in tailwind which would be a huge benefit for your team.
you can try swagger over encore on liepard to annoy most opposing pokemon and to help foul play do as much damage as possible.

(note: brave bird from ho-oh does a considerable amount to groudon, so dont worry about that)

this rate was in a rush so if i made mistakes please forgive me. if you need any sets feel free to ask. hope i helped with the team. :)
Click to expand...

Awesome, thanks a ton. First, Lando sounds like just the guy I've been looking for so I feel like you just found a keystone I was desperately in need of. I've never run an explosion Lando before but I like the idea so I'll try to incorporate it in my set. As for Thundo over Rotom that makes sense too, I think I just picked Rotom due to old OU habits.
Tailwind on Ho-oh sounds good too, but with two t-wavers already I wonder if that is overkill on speed control (bar PDon/Lando), or do you think I could replace t-wave with swagger on my Liepard instead of encore? BTW, swagger on my Liepard definitely makes a lot of sense with FP, thanks. I'm just reluctant to part with encore, and I dont know if it's just because I've been lucky with it or what, but I love that it punishes protect, fake out, and geomancy so harshly, but let me know if I'm overrating it as a move
 
iPRODiGY VGC said:
I have a little time while on break so I figured I'd expand a bit on what GAG said. This team sort of fits the bill of a Dark Spam team, so I'm going to try to sort of build on that idea.

Pokemon Changes

Landorus-T over Rotom Wash

I completely agree with GAG on this change. Rotom-W struggles a lot in the format due to the Primal Weathers. He's a good check against Kyogre, but other then that, he's dead weight. With an addition of Landorus, you gain another intimidate option that can be shuffled in to lower Physical Groudon's sting. He also provides an answer to Groudon should he carry Rock Slide, which your team is very weak to.

landorus-therian.gif

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 156 Atk / 92 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
- Superpower

This is Draconid997's Landorus spread. I can't remember what he is EV'd to survive (I'll update this when I do) but with a Jolly Nature and this speed investment he outspeeds the max speed Primals by one point.

Salamence over Mawile

This one is more down to preference. Mawile is a very good Pokémon, but he struggles outside of Trick Room, and against Groudon. To help with both of these matchups, I would recommend you switch him out for Salamence. Salamence can wall Special Groudon while spamming Hyper Voice for huge damage.

salamence-mega.gif

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EV's: 4 HP/252 Sp. Atk/252 Spe
Naive Nature/Timid Nature
-Draco Meteor
-Hyper Voice
-Double-Edge/Fire Blast
-Protect

This is a pretty standard spread for Salamence. If you want to use Fire Blast to OHKO Ferrothorn, I would use a Timid Nature for obvious reasons.

Thundurus over Whimsicott

While Whimsicott is an OK Pokémon in the format, I find Thundurus to be a better answer against Smeargle, since he carries Taunt but isn't complete taunt bait. The set I'm suggesting will also be a solid check to most Kyogre.

thundurus.gif

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 36 HP / 220 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wild Charge
- Taunt / Swagger
- Thunder Wave
- Protect

Physical Thundurus is something us VGC raters have been playing around with for a little while now. It has the ability to OHKO most Kyogre, which can net you a few surprise KOs. Besides that he provides another form of speed control, which this team is lacking.

Set Changes
I'm going to try to go through these quick, because I don't have much time left before I have to get back to work.

717.gif

Yveltal @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Dark Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 196 HP / 12 Def / 68 SpA / 68 SpD / 164 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Snarl
- Dark Pulse
- Protect​

This is Draconid997's Yveltal spread. I actually can't remember what it's EV'd to survive, but I'll ask him and edit this once I do. The move changes are optional, but I've always preferred Dark Pulse for the extra STAB over Oblivion Wing.

This is all I have for now. I will definitely come back and update this with a few more thoughts when I get off. If you have any questions feel free to ask me. Good luck with your team :)
​
Click to expand...
Thanks for the help, definitely appreciated and I'm in no hurry, so no worry. I'll definitely take your and GAG's advice and go with the two genies over Rotom and Whims, and I really like your idea of using physical Thundo because it deals with the legendary birds and POgre so well. Also I admit I'm reluctant to part with oblivion wing for type coverage and because I just love the HP boost on the bulky bird, but I'll try it out and see how I like it.
Your suggestion for Salamence over Maw is interesting because it made me realize I'll now have 4 flying types, and 5 if I switched to Salamence. That almost makes me want to consider switching my Ho-oh for MQuaza, but that might be getting ahead of myself for now. I'll start with the genies and try dark pulse out, and once I get those sets down I'll try Salamence. Thanks for including the sets btw
 
damaGrande said:
Thanks for the help, definitely appreciated and I'm in no hurry, so no worry. I'll definitely take your and GAG's advice and go with the two genies over Rotom and Whims, and I really like your idea of using physical Thundo because it deals with the legendary birds and POgre so well. Also I admit I'm reluctant to part with oblivion wing for type coverage and because I just love the HP boost on the bulky bird, but I'll try it out and see how I like it.
Your suggestion for Salamence over Maw is interesting because it made me realize I'll now have 4 flying types, and 5 if I switched to Salamence. That almost makes me want to consider switching my Ho-oh for MQuaza, but that might be getting ahead of myself for now. I'll start with the genies and try dark pulse out, and once I get those sets down I'll try Salamence. Thanks for including the sets btw
Click to expand...
My idea was to intimidate shuffle so that you could take Rock slides better. Another option would be to switch Ho-Oh out for Groudon. He still walls Xerneas and helps patch up your Rock Slide weakness.
 
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