ORAS NU Rookie Sweep

remember16

remember16

Hey all. I'm rather new to competitive battling and have been lurking around Showdown for a couple of weeks now. I have a relatively decent win rate there but still don't get a good grasp about what makes a player great or not, so now I wanted to get more insightful advice about one of the team I assembled.


[URL="http://pokemondb.net/pokedex/kadabra"][/URL]
[URL="http://pokemondb.net/pokedex/torkoal"][/URL]

Team intro
I build this team with the sweeping in mind. I have a lot of experience being swept by a lot of scarfed threats and I wanted to be able to counter that. The Pokemon I choose to build around for that is Ninjask, of which the details will be explained below. There's some changes I did before this, where Kadabra's position previously held by Krokorok. It does gimmicky stuff but very limited aside from that task, so I put Kadabra in to be able to hit wider range of opponent.

Kadabra (F) @ Sticky Barb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 88 Def / 168 SpA / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
- Psychic
- Trick
- Psycho Shift
- Energy Ball

The deal with this Kadabra is take advantage of Magic Guard. She held Sticky Barb, which won't hurt her but will give continuous damage to opponent who touched her, or using Trick to give them that. Unlike Toxic, there's no immunity aside from fellow Magic Guard user. I used this trick previously with Krokorok who held Poison Barb and knows Fling. But then I decided Sticky Barb+Magic Guard is a better combo, not to mention Kadabra has wider offensive range. With Energy Ball, I don't have to be too worried about water+ground or rock+ground typing. I previously put Dazzling Gleam in there, but I figure I have enough counter against Dark and Fighting, so I replaced it. Psycho shift is there mainly so I can protect my physical dealer from burn or any other status and bounced them back. There's also defense investment so my Kadabra could stand at least one priority hit such as (unboosted) Shadow Sneak and Aqua Jet before counter attack.


Noctowl (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Defog
- Whirlwind
- Psycho Shift
- Air Slash

Noctowl is a technician in the team, doing stuff that Noctowl regularly does. Defog is important, because my last resort offense, Ninjask, desperately dependent on clean entry. Whirlwind is a move that works well with Psycho Shift, to be a recipient and redistributing status, as well as removing special boost threat such as Quiver Dance and Calm Mind. Unfortunately I can't find a place for roost, so the recovery have to depend on leftovers. She does minimal offense, running Air Slash as her only arsenal, but this Noctowl has won me a lot of match and towering over the likes of Mismagius, Vivilon, Liligant, Weezing, Quagsire, Ludicolo and Uxie


Ninjask (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aerial Ace
- Swords Dance
- X-Scissor
- Protect

This is my main sweeper. Max speed and attack. The set is common Ninjask set. Basically what she does is arrive cleanly on the field, then either using Protect first for speed boost or Swords Dance. She could live almost any first hit because of Focus Sash to get at least one Swords Dance. And proceed to hit hard and being faster than any scarfed user. There's a few thing to keep in mind though. I have to eliminate anything that this Ninjask couldn't handle first, Stealth Rocks, Focus Sash holder, defensive tanks, especially common Unaware Quagsire, continuous attack such as Rock Blast and priority moves.


Torkoal (F) @ Iron Ball
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Def / 24 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Gyro Ball

Torkoal is like physical defense version of Noctowl in the team. They do stuff that's not a direct damage, mostly at least. Rapid Spin is there to ensure I have a back up for Noctowl duty. Stealth Rock is there so my Ninjask could sweep without being worried about Focus Sash. I choose Lava Plume because I prefer burn over raw damage. And I take the slowest Torkoal by nature plus Iron Ball to do a lot of damage with Gyro Ball. It could KO Regirock by around 3 hits. And almost OHKOing Archeops. Also, with Torkoal around I have a save switch in against Scyther, that regularly destroys me before.


Slaking (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Truant
EVs: 252 Atk / 32 Def / 224 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Giga Impact
- Focus Punch
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch

Slaking is here mostly to deal the first hit and soften the enemy, so they can be finished by Zangoose or Ninjask. Max attack EV, with Giga Impact as his main STAB move, it will hit hard even while being burn. Next, I used to gave him Body Slam in the slot so if I get the paralyze hax, it would help me while in truant mode, but then I figured that's not what Slaking's supposed to be doing or concerned about, so I replaced it with Focus Punch because Slaking forced a lot of switch so I can get a free focusing turn. Earthquake is for coverage, and the last move is Sucker Punch. I used to run Pursuit instead of Sucker Punch, for the same reason as Focus Punch, and it worked well several time I tried it. But my concern is not having any priority move in the team, especially if Slaking is paralyzed. What do you think, which is better? Finally, I gave her Rocky Helmet so that this slaking can still be useful even while in truant mode.


Zangoose (F) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Toxic Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Retaliate
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- X-Scissor

Zangoose is there to hit and run, acting between Slaking and Ninjask. Because it supposed to hit variety of typing I gave him expert belt. I rather not gave him Toxic Orb or Choice Item because this pokemon supposed to be flexible to move or stay between the turns. It hits hard with the right attack even without any Toxic Boost or Swords Dance, and if I can predict a Toxic coming my way, I could switch into Zangoose and get a free attack boost+Expert Belt. My concern is that this Zangoose, even with max speed still not fast enough to do his job. Not to mention her frailty, she wouldn't last long. And there's also typing problem, having two of my physical hitter have the same weakness is unpleasant. That's why I'm considering replacing him with scarfed Pinsir, with almost the exact same move set except Earthquake for Retaliate. Not only it solve the typing problem, but Mold Breaker also enable me to best the Rotoms which I always have trouble against. Although on the other hand, this will give huge weakness against rock attacks and Stealth Rock. What do you think?


Threat List

Two of my Pokemon who are usually dealing with status and stats boost, Noctowl and Torkoal are weak to rock. A sight of Crustle must be dealt immediately before it starts wrecking with Shell Smash. There's also Golurk, Hariyama, and eviolite using fighting type such as Guts Machoke or Gurdurr. Basically anything with fighting type attack, on top of being bulky. And Kabutops under the rain. In that situation I don't have an answer except maybe giving Focus Sash to Kadabra. And a Prankster Pokemon have evidently gave trouble and even manage to put down this team in the past.


(By the way, what should I do if I want to put some of my post as spoiler?)
 
Hey, remember16. Welcome to Smogon! I have some suggestions for your team, but first, visit this page and look at the hide tag section if you want to learn about using spoiler tags on the forums.

Now, here are my suggestions for your team. They're pretty lengthy, but they should be useful for you. I certainly hope so, anyway. I'll put a really brief summary of my suggestions at the end of the post for quick reference, and the more in depth reasoning here in the middle.

Noctowl really needs to find room for Roost on that set so it can stay healthy to Defog and take special attacks for you. You need Air Slash so it isn't Taunt bait, so that leaves Whirlwind and Psycho Shift. I can see benefits to both of them, so I'll leave it up to your discretion, but I think you should definitely replace one of them with Roost. Also, if powerful fighting types like Sawk and Hariyama are causing you too much trouble, you could try using Pelipper over Noctowl as a Defogger to give yourself a safe switch-in to them, but that leaves you weaker to special attackers.

Another reason I'm putting importance on keeping Noctowl healthy is because I think Torkoal should be replaced. Doubling up on hazard removal is a bit unecessary, and your team has a heavy weakness to Rock types. I'd recommend using Quagsire in place of Torkoal. It deals with things like Crustle, Gurdurr, Kabutops, Scyther and Golurk that have been giving you trouble and has great type synergy with Noctowl and Ninjask, plus you can keep a physical wall in that team slot. Don't try and use it as a switch-in to heavier hitting Fighting types like Sawk, though.

Since replacing Torkoal would leave your team without Stealth Rock, I'd recommend using Mesprit in place of Kadabra. Mesprit helps to patch up your team's weakness to strong Fighting type attacks and will let you keep using Stealth Rock and powerful Psychic attacks without Torkoal and Kadabra on the team, plus you can still use Energy Ball on it (though Signal Beam might be more useful to deal with things like Malamar and Shiftry if necessary). I also highly recommend running Healing Wish on it, I'll get to why later because it has to do with another change.

Zangoose and Slaking have the same switch-ins, and having one of them break the opponent's team open for the other can be very helpful. However, I think there's a lot of room for improvement with this core.

First of all, you're using Zangoose as a strong, flexible hit-and-run physical attacker, and you don't want Toxic Orb to put it on a timer. In that case, I recommend using Tauros instead. Tauros is faster and more powerful than a Zangoose without Toxic Boost thanks to Sheer Force Life Orb, and has excellent coverage. It will work very well in this hit and run type of role.

That said, I don't think you need to get rid of Zangoose entirely. I'd recommend using a Toxic Orb Zangoose over Slaking here. Slaking is usually a liability for a team, and its not just because there are turns where it isn't doing damage. Truant turns give the opponent free switches and turns to use set up moves, and it can easily cost you the game. Zangoose can deal a constant barrage of heavy damage to the opponent and make it much easier for Tauros or Ninjask to come in during the late game and clean up. This is also where Healing Wish Mesprit can be very useful, as you can reset the Toxic Orb timer on Zangoose and do it all over again.

Here's a summary of suggested changes for quick reference:
Mesprit/Noctowl/Ninjask/Quagsire/Tauros/Zangoose

Hazard lead Mesprit w/ Healing Wish
Noctowl needs Roost, could be replaced with Pelipper based on what you need to check more
Zangoose needs Toxic Orb
Quagsire blanket checks most of the stuff that was giving you trouble

I hope I was able to help you out. Good luck with your team!
 
Hey there, first off welcome to Smogon!

I'd like to rate your team and suggest changes to improve it, but I don't feel I can do so without doing a complete overhaul or changing your team's goals. With that in mind I've included a couple resources that might be of help to you below.

I notice that your team lacks a lot of defensive synergy and checks to common Pokemon, I've gone ahead and wrote up some points I always try to achieve when building a team in the NU metagame , be sure to check them out if you're struggling to build a solid team.

Also, a lot of the sets on your team seem either far too niche or simply suboptimal, in my opinion. If you're curious what a Pokemon in NU commonly runs, our C&C team works hard to output analyses for our metagame that you can find here: http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/formats/nu/


High Priority
  • Fighting-type resist*
  • Flying-type resist*
  • Ground-type resist or immunity
  • Normal-type resist*
  • Water-type resist
*if the resist you choose isn't a hard counter to the most common Pokemon of this type, I'd reccomend adding at least one more resistance to it.

Medium Priority
  • Check to +1/+1 Malamar
  • Check to CM Psychic-types
  • Check to Klinklang
  • Electric-type immunity
  • Fire-type resist
Low Priority
  • If 2/3 of your team is weak to Stealth Rock, I would always prioritize a Defog or Rapid Spin user.
  • Choice Scarf user or Pokemon that deal with all threats base 105 Speed and above (examples below)
-Archeops
-Liepard
-Pyroar
-Scyther
-Swellow
-Tauros​
​
 
Last edited:
Jim E. Russler said:
Hey, remember16. Welcome to Smogon! I have some suggestions for your team, but first, visit this page and look at the hide tag section if you want to learn about using spoiler tags on the forums.

Now, here are my suggestions for your team. They're pretty lengthy, but they should be useful for you. I certainly hope so, anyway. I'll put a really brief summary of my suggestions at the end of the post for quick reference, and the more in depth reasoning here in the middle.

Noctowl really needs to find room for Roost on that set so it can stay healthy to Defog and take special attacks for you. You need Air Slash so it isn't Taunt bait, so that leaves Whirlwind and Psycho Shift. I can see benefits to both of them, so I'll leave it up to your discretion, but I think you should definitely replace one of them with Roost. Also, if powerful fighting types like Sawk and Hariyama are causing you too much trouble, you could try using Pelipper over Noctowl as a Defogger to give yourself a safe switch-in to them, but that leaves you weaker to special attackers.

Another reason I'm putting importance on keeping Noctowl healthy is because I think Torkoal should be replaced. Doubling up on hazard removal is a bit unecessary, and your team has a heavy weakness to Rock types. I'd recommend using Quagsire in place of Torkoal. It deals with things like Crustle, Gurdurr, Kabutops, Scyther and Golurk that have been giving you trouble and has great type synergy with Noctowl and Ninjask, plus you can keep a physical wall in that team slot. Don't try and use it as a switch-in to heavier hitting Fighting types like Sawk, though.

Since replacing Torkoal would leave your team without Stealth Rock, I'd recommend using Mesprit in place of Kadabra. Mesprit helps to patch up your team's weakness to strong Fighting type attacks and will let you keep using Stealth Rock and powerful Psychic attacks without Torkoal and Kadabra on the team, plus you can still use Energy Ball on it (though Signal Beam might be more useful to deal with things like Malamar and Shiftry if necessary). I also highly recommend running Healing Wish on it, I'll get to why later because it has to do with another change.

Zangoose and Slaking have the same switch-ins, and having one of them break the opponent's team open for the other can be very helpful. However, I think there's a lot of room for improvement with this core.

First of all, you're using Zangoose as a strong, flexible hit-and-run physical attacker, and you don't want Toxic Orb to put it on a timer. In that case, I recommend using Tauros instead. Tauros is faster and more powerful than a Zangoose without Toxic Boost thanks to Sheer Force Life Orb, and has excellent coverage. It will work very well in this hit and run type of role.

That said, I don't think you need to get rid of Zangoose entirely. I'd recommend using a Toxic Orb Zangoose over Slaking here. Slaking is usually a liability for a team, and its not just because there are turns where it isn't doing damage. Truant turns give the opponent free switches and turns to use set up moves, and it can easily cost you the game. Zangoose can deal a constant barrage of heavy damage to the opponent and make it much easier for Tauros or Ninjask to come in during the late game and clean up. This is also where Healing Wish Mesprit can be very useful, as you can reset the Toxic Orb timer on Zangoose and do it all over again.

Here's a summary of suggested changes for quick reference:
Mesprit/Noctowl/Ninjask/Quagsire/Tauros/Zangoose

Hazard lead Mesprit w/ Healing Wish
Noctowl needs Roost, could be replaced with Pelipper based on what you need to check more
Zangoose needs Toxic Orb
Quagsire blanket checks most of the stuff that was giving you trouble

I hope I was able to help you out. Good luck with your team!
Click to expand...

Hello Jim, thanks for your input, it's quite enlightening. A few things about your suggestion;

-Indeed, so often when I battled I wish I have some reliable chunk of recovery for Noctowl. I do realize, that, if I wanted to make some changes about this problem, I probably have to substitute Kadabra with something else. Why? Because as of now, losing Psycho Shift and Whirlwind is a suicide. To change that, I have to make my team not so vulnerable to status or having another pokemon dealing with troublesome stats boost. The 2 way I think that I can do is; 1) Replacing Kadabra with a pokemon with Heal Bell/Wish or 2) Giving my attacker Lum Berry or changing them with Guts pokemon (Luxray can be great, albeit it has it's own shortcomings). I was thinking of using fairy types, maybe Audino or Eviolite Clefairy, they resist and can counter attack fighting types, but because they would be so busy healing they leave almost no room for offense. Your recommendation Mesprit is a good idea I think. And about Noctowl's moveset, by a process of elimination Psycho Shift is the least important, so maybe I'll sub that

-The reason I use two hazard remover is related to the problem above. I have given My Noctowl too much burden, shielding special attack, dealing with status, and because Whirlwind is a low priority move she would have to take at least one hit, further decreasing her HP in the process. Not long after I posted this thread I played with this team and I realize another problem; Pyroar. Noctowl can handle it, no problem, but if Noctowl down, no one else can withstand the hit. Torkoal 2HKO by Hyper Voice. Quagsire wont help much in that regard, but at least it's one pokemon less that concerned about Stealth Rock. And Quagsire also give me a good option against Volt Switcher. I never use Mesprit, but looking at its stats maybe it would be bulky enough to counter strong special hits, helping Noctowl

-Yeah, I aware of Slaking's deficiency, actually I used to dislike Slaking in Gen 3 but decided to try it for now :D. One of the reason I didn't give Zangoose Choice item is because Truant is a headache enough by itself. Giving her Choice Scarf, for example, would make my team predictable and battered all over the place because of all the switches, so Expert Belt is the best item I could give Zangoose that wouldn't restraint nor cutting her screen time. Maybe that's the problem; With Slaking I should be thinking how to build team around him, not use him to complete the team. I have an experience being swept by Combusken because of Truant

-I agree, I have to change my physical attacker. I tried Throh before writing this actually, and adding Granbull to my waiting list, but Tauros is a great suggestion. Actually, speaking about physical attacker, what do you think about Poliwrath instead of Quagsire? With Water Absorb, physical bulk and varied attacking option it's somewhat tempting. Although that will give me problem against electric type
 
Kiyo said:
Hey there, first off welcome to Smogon!

I'd like to rate your team and suggest changes to improve it, but I don't feel I can do so without doing a complete overhaul or changing your team's goals. With that in mind I've included a couple resources that might be of help to you below.

I notice that your team lacks a lot of defensive synergy and checks to common Pokemon, I've gone ahead and wrote up some points I always try to achieve when building a team in the NU metagame , be sure to check them out if you're struggling to build a solid team.

Also, a lot of the sets on your team seem either far too niche or simply suboptimal, in my opinion. If you're curious what a Pokemon in NU commonly runs, our C&C team works hard to output analyses for our metagame that you can find here: http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/formats/nu/


High Priority
  • Fighting-type resist*
  • Flying-type resist*
  • Ground-type resist or immunity
  • Normal-type resist*
  • Water-type resist
*if the resist you choose isn't a hard counter to the most common Pokemon of this type, I'd reccomend adding at least one more resistance to it.

Medium Priority
  • Check to +1/+1 Malamar
  • Check to CM Psychic-types
  • Check to Klinklang
  • Electric-type immunity
  • Fire-type resist
Low Priority
  • If 2/3 of your team is weak to Stealth Rock, I would always prioritize a Defog or Rapid Spin user.
  • Choice Scarf user or Pokemon that deal with all threats base 105 Speed and above (examples below)
-Archeops
-Liepard
-Pyroar
-Scyther
-Swellow
-Tauros​
​
Click to expand...

Hi Kiyo, thanks for the input, your checklist are very helpful. As I said in the OP, I'm somewhat a noob in metagame, so I wouldn't mind hearing from more experienced player why my team didn't work or the changes they'd do if they're in my position. And yeah, I'm a person who likes to experiment with gimmicky things. It's my personal enjoyment although it probably wouldn't work effectively every time :D
 
remember16 said:
Actually, speaking about physical attacker, what do you think about Poliwrath instead of Quagsire? With Water Absorb, physical bulk and varied attacking option it's somewhat tempting. Although that will give me problem against electric type
Click to expand...

Yeah, Poliwrath is a great Pokemon and it would handle a lot of the things that were giving you trouble as well. I wouldn't want to use it on this particular team though, since having 3 electric weaknesses is a problem, especially with no electric immune Pokemon to make up for it. Quagsire's type synergy with your team is a lot more appealing.

When you talked about Torkoal, you also said part of the reason he was there is because Scyther was a big problem for your team. Poliwrath has trouble against Scyther, but Quagsire can often handle it (Choice Band Scyther 3HKOS it).
 
Jim E. Russler said:
Yeah, Poliwrath is a great Pokemon and it would handle a lot of the things that were giving you trouble as well. I wouldn't want to use it on this particular team though, since having 3 electric weaknesses is a problem, especially with no electric immune Pokemon to make up for it. Quagsire's type synergy with your team is a lot more appealing.

When you talked about Torkoal, you also said part of the reason he was there is because Scyther was a big problem for your team. Poliwrath has trouble against Scyther, but Quagsire can often handle it (Choice Band Scyther 3HKOS it).
Click to expand...

You're right. If I want to put Poliwrath I have to change even more things, not really fixing anything. Besides Scyther problem, ground typing give me an option against incoming Volt Switch. I said before I was rather new to competitive battling and having presumption about Slaking's bulk in the game playthrough, I was quite surprised by how much damage she would get if I don't give her SpD EV in competitive :D
 
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