Sableye (Complete Stall) [QC 0/3]

Status
Not open for further replies.
Katakiri

Katakiri

Listen, Brendan...
is a Researcher Alumnus
A set that invokes such messages as; "That is bullshit!", "I hate you.", "The window was disabled due to one of the players closing the battle window.", and other flattering remarks from the Smogon Server.

The main Sableye analysis is currently in copy-editing so I'm giving this it's own thread.

QC Approvals:
302.png

[SET]
name: Complete Stall (Could use a better name)
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Recover
move 3: Taunt
move 4: Will-O-Wisp
item: Leftovers
ability: Prankster
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD

Why this deserves to be on-site

  • Due to priority Calm Mind, Will-O-Wisp, & Taunt, Sableye gains instant protection from all 3 move categories
  • The current Calm Mind set forgoes Taunt with an Attacking move, leaving it open to status, phazing, & other Calm Minding Pokemon
  • The standard Sableye set can't handle Special Attacks
  • This set is a bit of a hybrid between the two, sacrificing it's Offense move-slot for the ability to wall Special Attackers as well as it walls Physical Attackers
  • Once Fire-types, Guts, Magic Bounce/Guard opponents are dealt with, this set becomes entirely self-sufficient and can, rather easily, sweep wear through a team by itself (demonstrated in the example match at the bottom of the post)

Set Comments

  • Functions as both a Physical and Special Wall with no weaknesses
  • Priority Calm Mind to wall Special Attackers
  • Will-O-Wisp burns Physical Attackers
  • Taunt to protect against Status, Trick, & Set-up Sweepers
  • Will-O-Wisp is Sableye's only form of damage but it gets the job done albeit very slowly
  • Will-O-Wisp's sketchy accuracy is the biggest issue this set has
  • Recover allows Sableye to stall for days
  • Makes a good Spin-Blocker as it can wall Starmie after a Calm Mind and Burn Donphan
  • After all Fire-types, Guts, Magic Bounce, and Magic Guard opponents are removed, Sableye can wear through a team by itself

Additional Comments

  • Scouting is absolute key for Sableye's success. Knowing what items the opponent has is mandatory or Sableye may end up getting Tricked or burning off a Lum Berry leaving Sableye wide open for attack
  • This Pokemon is almost self-sufficient and with no weaknesses, it can fit on nearly any team with minimal support
  • Sableye forces constant switching so Stealth Rock & Spikes are very much appreciated and they also help break down Natural Cure Pokemon as they can freely switch in & out to stall-away Sableye's precious 24 Will-O-Wisp PP
  • Tyranitar makes a fantastic teammate as he can set up Stealth Rocks, Pursuit Magic Bouncers, take down Fire-types, and draw in Fighting-type moves, giving Sableye a chance to switch in for free.
  • Sandstorm damage cancels Leftovers recovery so Sableye does lose a few Leftovers-dependent Match-ups like CB Scizor & potentially LO Starmie
  • Fire-types are this sets biggest issue as Sableye can't do anything to them except PP stall Special Attackers, unless they Crit
  • Pokemon that make quick work of those Fire-types are ideal teammates for Sableye
  • Teammates that can spread Burns of their own make Sableye's job a lot easier
  • Toxic Spikes are all-around bad for Sableye no matter which side of the field they're on as Poison blocks Burn. Avoid using them and keep them off the battlefield altogether
  • Scizor can do up to 68% with Bullet Punch before Sableye can burn it
  • Poison Heal Gliscor & Breloom ruin Sableye's fun
  • Magic Guard is annoying but, no Magic Guard Pokemon can really do anything to Sableye either after a CM or 2 unless they Crit with Shadow Ball
  • Weather-less conditions are ideal as boosted Water or Fire moves destroy this set without at least 2 Calm Minds up
  • Crits!

252 SpAtk Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs 252 HP/129 +1 SpDef Sableye: 50.66% - 60.2% [2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)]
252 SpAtk Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs 252 HP/128 +2 SpDef Sableye: 38.49% - 45.39% [3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)]
252 SpAtk Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs 252 HP/128 +1 SpDef Sableye: 81.91% - 96.71% [2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)]
252 SpAtk Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs 252 HP/128 +2 SpDef Sableye: 61.18% - 72.37% [2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)]

252 Atk Choice Band Scizor Bullet Punch vs 252 HP/128 Def Sableye: 57.57% - 68.09% [2 hits to KO (with Leftovers) (2nd hit won't KO after Will-O-Wisp & Lefties)]
(Burned) 252 +1 Atk Dragonite Outrage vs 252 HP/128 Def Sableye: 58.55% - 69.41% [2 hits to KO (with Leftovers) (Can be stalled-out with Recover until Confusion kicks in)]

Example Match:
http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-dashawayer-vs-Katakiri--2012-02-12
It's lengthy but it gives a good impression of how Sableye plays in battle.
Sableye comes in on Turn 21 and stays in until Turn 84. Maximum playback speed is highly recommended.
(Spoiler: Sableye juggles Rotom-W, Scizor, (the dreaded Volt-Turn) AND SD Toxicroak while still coming out on top at 100% HP no less.)
 
This is a cool and interesting set. However, can it do anything against the likes of opposing Reuniclus? I think that you should mention Scizor or something similar in teammates because Reuniclus will have to enter a stall war with this set. Scizor is also a good scouter, so that's 2 things covered. But cool set!

EDIT: I was about to Luvdisc this thread, but the set looks so annoying that I decided not to. :P
 
I feel as though I already hate this set ._. Anywayz, since Fire types and Magic Bounce are both clearly illustrated issues, wouldn't Ttar make for an excellent partner? Luring Fighting attacks, trapping Xatu+Espeon and setting SR to wear down/check Fire types all sound like nice contributions. Plus it helps to disrupt stuff like Rain-boosted Starmies from plowing through you. Sure the residual damage of sand is kinda a pain, but I think it should get noted.
 
I agree that Tyranitar is a great partner, but that residual does make CB Scizor & LO Starmie counter Sableye which are the biggest reasons I'm on the fence about TTar. I'll add TTar to AC, but I'll make sure to note Starmie & Scizor as potential counters with him.

Like I said before, harsha, Magic Guard Pokemon tend to stalemate with Sableye, turning into more of a PP war until one of them switches out, which due to Calm Mind & Taunt's combined PP compared to Shadow Ball, Psychic, & Focus Blast, Sableye will usually come out on top in that situation but it will take forever. So they're not too big of a deal. Nothing to sweat over at least.
 
Actually Scarf Scizzor seems like a good partner. It can obviously deal with Reuniclus, while also trapping and killing Espeon, which could be a great problem otherwise. Scarf because Espy commonly carries HP Fire.
Scarf Scizor also cacthes by surprise the most common fire types in OU, aka Heatran and Infernape, dealing a butload of damage to both with Superpower, ohkoing them after some residual damage.
Finally if you really feel like supporting this set as much as you can, you can even give Aerial Ace to Scizor to OHKO unsuspecting Bulk Up Brelooms that see you as set-up fodder.

EDIT: Aerial Ace also always OHKOes Infernape after SR, in addition to Brelloom.
 
This looks like a great set to be a spin blocker. CM and Will-o-Wisp prevent all the issues that would otherwise force you out from Spinner's.

There is a nit pick I do have with this set and it is that it has the potential to be completely stopped in its tracks itself by a lot of pokemon. You identified this yourself with Heatran, Magic Guard, Magic Bounce, etc. but it is also against Substitute users. TBH I wouldn't feel comfotable having to always bank on a Focus Blast chance to win everytime. Stall is consistent and well this isn't.

IMO, no member or pokemon on a team should be in the position of being absolutely useless. You can use teammates to get around that but that puts unnecessary pressure on your team and you always have the potential to have complete dead weight on your team. Here is a good list on how this Sableye will be dead weight on your team:
Heatran: 19.6% 1/5 teams make this set useless (fear the Lava Plume)
Gliscor: 13.6%
Breloom: 8.3%
Infernape: 7.5%
Volcarona: 7.5%
Reuniclus: 6.8%
Conkledurr: 6.8%
Espeon: 6.1%
Ninetales: 6.1%
Alakazahm: 5.1%

I don't have the numbers but Acrobatics Tornadus beats this set as well being a faster Prankster).

The other big negative of this set is that it completely undermines Sableye's niche of countering Reuniclus and Zam (to an extent), flipping the tables on who truly counters what.
 
You could use unnerve ttar alongside it so that you don't need to deal with residual damage, but it's not particularily good...
 
Since this is a complete stall with calm mind, I think you should send all the ev's and the nature to def (bold). You need this Defensive bulk in order for sableye to become the real complete stall of a pokemon.

Conclusion:
-252 Def / 0 Sp.def
Nature Bold,Impish whatever just let it be + DEF :D
 
^ nope, otherwise it can't take special attacks off the get-go, which is pretty indispensable in scenarios with 'Zam and OTR Reuniclus. Will-O-Wisp mitigates somewhat subpar defenses as is, no need to invest so dramatically imo.
 
col49 said:
^ nope, otherwise it can't take special attacks off the get-go, which is pretty indispensable in scenarios with 'Zam and OTR Reuniclus. Will-O-Wisp mitigates somewhat subpar defenses as is, no need to invest so dramatically imo.
Click to expand...

Since Calm mind is under the prankster effect it can be used when alakazam or reuniclus is brought in. However, when Sableye faces a boosted attacker like lets a +2 lucario, CB Terrakion,etc...the def ev's would matter more than when facing an alakazam or reuniclus.
The Def Ev's are a necessity imo.
 
well you can use the same exact argument in special defenses, in the cases of pokes like CM Latias, Specs Latios, etc. However, considering Sableye's typing, which offers no real beneficial resists, he can come in most easily on Psychic types such as 'Zam and Reuniclus, who lack any moves bar Shadow Ball/Hiddden Power (who runs TBolt?) to hit back with. The main issue for Sableye imo is switching in, not how he deals with switch-ins. Plus, why would you bring in Sableye on CB Terrak? Even with max/max and Bold Stone Edge is a clean OHKO iirc
 
If your replay is any indication, this set is insane. My main concern is whether or not it can switch into Starmie reliably. Would it be more beneficial to invest fully in Special Defense to better switch into Starmie?
 
col49 said:
well you can use the same exact argument in special defenses, in the cases of pokes like CM Latias, Specs Latios, etc. However, considering Sableye's typing, which offers no real beneficial resists, he can come in most easily on Psychic types such as 'Zam and Reuniclus, who lack any moves bar Shadow Ball/Hiddden Power (who runs TBolt?) to hit back with. The main issue for Sableye imo is switching in, not how he deals with switch-ins. Plus, why would you bring in Sableye on CB Terrak? Even with max/max and Bold Stone Edge is a clean OHKO iirc
Click to expand...

No you cant. Sableye has CM which helps him a lot. Def evs help him survive many threats and take hits better so that he can set up a cm but no recover.
I didn't literally mean switch into terrakion. I meant sort of a prediction or a free switch in where he can w-o-w him. Def evs are definitely more useful.
 
About to test this set, because from the replay it seems almost too good to be true... However it seems Dugtrio support is required to take out Fires?
 
Something else to note is, that while this set seems good in theory, in practice it is much more difficult to pull of. Any special attacker that can 2hko you unboosted (meaning a lot) easily destroys you with a crit (which is not difficult, the match in the log was ~80 turns log). Also any strong attacker with priority, or just super strong, ohkoes or 2hkoes if WoW misses which happens 1 out of 4 times.

Maybe passing an Aqua Ring or Ingrain is an option, so that you can forfeit Recover and have room for Sub?
 
Good set, maybe slash toxic after WoW so it can bet volcarona? Flame dance volcarona beats this set otherwise
 
Okay, the EVs on Sableye gives Sableye the ability to beat Scizor but still take on OU's best Special Attackers. It was only a coincidence that it ended up being an even split between the two stats that accomplished that.


Yes, crits ruin this thing (I should know better than anyone) but, the same thing applies to every Sableye set. The entire concept of Prankster Sableye can be a gamble, from crits to simply WoW missing. But there's no denying that if luck's on your side, it works wonders. That's a reason I highly recommend SR and Spikes support. You want the battle to end as fast as possible and giving your opponent as few chances to Crit as possible. And because Sableye is going to be an ace in the hole for most team, the opposition will be considerably weakened by the time Sableye shows up.

To be fair, in that match, he was switching out to Scizor constantly every time I'd WoW so I was getting Burn damage only once every 2 or 3 turns. If I didn't miss that WoW on Rotom, Sableye wouldn't have had to stall for even half as long as it did.


You don't need Dugtrio to remove Fire-type. Landorus, Heatran, Starmie, they all do the job. Anything that can beat common Fire-types works perfectly as, again, Sableye has no weaknesses you need to cover so how you deal with Fire-types is entirely up to you. I just prefer Dugtrio since it removes Tyranitar as well so my Sunny Day Heatran can clear the skies for Sableye.

Same goes for Magic Bounce/Guard & Guts-mons. It's mostly just the preference of your team. Most teams should already be prepared for those Pokemon anyway, regardless of Sableye, so...yeah. That's one of the reasons I say Sableye can fit on most teams.


Toxic kinda defeats the point of the set, jonathanrp.
 
I only disagree with one thing you say. Every Sableye is not so prone to crits as this one, because this Sableye will attempt to set-up on special attackers, while the others won't.
The standard Sableye won't be taking as much special hits as this one, and crits from special hits are mostly the ones that will screw you, since crits don't negate burns, so physical attackers still have their attack halved.
 
You have a good point, but let's be honest. Everyone has that moment where they're stalling a burned sweeper and you know you can take one more hit before you have to recover and they crit you with that hit or they'll crit you with their last breath and the next pokemon they send in statuses you as you recover or just flat out KOs you as you taunt.

It doesn't happen often and certainly not as often as with CM & Special Attacks, but it definitely happens. It's a bad feel.
 
The only issue I have with this set is that it's too similar to the Main Prankster set. Calm Mind can easily be slashed with Night Shade / Foul Play or be an AC mention. Compared to the other sets on Sableye's analysis, this set just doesn't seem to play much differently.
 
The problem I have with this set is that it's seemingly inconsistent and gimmicky. If a special attacker hammers away at you, it probably will crit you eventually, and the fact that you have to rely on burn damage to kill things is a bit unsettling. You also have to rely on a 75% accurate Will-o-wisp to prevent strong physical attackers like CB Tyranitar from slaughtering you. It's a bit too slow to work in such a fast metagame methinks.

And yea, what Pocket said.
 
The Sableye analysis is about to be uploaded with Scorpio's comments on it, so this can be moved, I suppose. If not, Soft Reject.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top