Sandstorm + Trick room mixed team

Stenbuck

Hello, I've just gotten back to Pokemon after a long absence (I last played at the start of D/P, when Garchomp was still just a good OU). Been getting used to the game again, and would like to hear some opinions on a team that has been working well for me so far. It is fairly standard (maybe even boring) stuff and most of the movesets were straight up lifted from Smogon analyses, as I'm not yet ready to innovate too much (still don't know the types of many new gen pokes, forget some important abilities and moves some can carry etc). So read on if you have spare time.

Anyway, as the title says, it's a Sandstorm team (hate if you want) that has place in it for some decent Trick Room usage - however, Trick Room here is not the main focus of the team, but rather a support move to help out if the opposing team is too focused on outspeeding everything (eg Most Heavy offense teams), so it definetly doesn't need to be up all the time. I tried to cover most fronts at least a little bit, and use a good mix of walls and sweepers. So, without further ado:

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Hippowdon (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sandstream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Slack off
- Roar

Standard as standard can be, this Hippowdon is the heart of this team and has become one of my favorite pokes ever. I use him to setup stealth rock, physical wall, phaze and generally annoy my opponent into death. He's amazing almost all opposing physical leads (especially tyranitars who think they can Ice punch him to death), and Roar allows me to see what he'll use to check Hippo and distribute some SR damage on the second turn (if I'm not afraid of his lead that is), and obviously phaze Sub and Boost users (eg SubSD garchomp) safely due to his bulk.

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Ferrothorn (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spe)
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed

Another amazing wall, he's also the poke I switch in to if I see a big threat to Hippo from the get go (e.g. a Hydro Pump/Scald user). Since he'll switch to a fire or fighting user about 99% of the time, I often get to have a free Thunder Wave on one of his sweepers or, if I fear a switch to a ground poke (or Conkeldurr - I'll get to him later), a free spikes layer. He's also my best way to deal with Rain Dance users as I do not have an electric move on my team, unfortunately. Leech seed is there to stop an opposing wall from outstalling me, pretty much.

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Bronzong (N) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Atk / 80 Def / 92 SpD
IVs: 2 Spe
Sassy Nature (+SpD, -Spe)
- Trick Room
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- HP Ice

A poke I'm very on the fence about. This is one of the few sets I didn't straight up lift from Smogon - instead of using the offensive trick room set, I simply took the tank one and replaced SR for Trick Room. The reason for this is that I wanted a bronzong more on the bulky side and with HP ice for almost the sole reason of keeping Excadrill, Garchomp and company in check; however, this could also lead me to get screwed by boosts, obviously. I might change this one to the offensive trick room one eventually, but thus far this guy has been working OK. He's great for setting up Trick Room safely, which helps him out, helps Ferrothorn out, helps Hippo in most cases, and helps this next guy immensely...

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Reuniclus (F) @ Life orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
IVs: 0 Spe
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spe)
- Trick Room
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic

"Wtf noob", you might be saying, "why have 2 trick room users?". The reason is simply that I don't feel safe having it either only on Bronzong or only on Reuniclus, as 1) I use them to check different pokes and 2) One of them could always need to be sacrificed and then the other would be screwed. Switching to Reuniclus after some checks to Bronzong are sent out and Trick room is already set is always sweet.

This guy came into the team as a replacement for Terrakion and as an answer for goddamn fighting types, especially Conkeldurr, that were giving many problems to early iterations of this team. I'm liking him a lot thus far, due to his great coverage with those 3 offensive moves and a fairly good bulk, and the fact that he outslows many, many pokes - in fact, I remember reading in his analysis that only 0 spe ferrothorn outslows him (as mine does).

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Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Satk / 4 SpD/ 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Overheat
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- HP Ice

I love this guy. People will use Fire moves on Ferrothorn so fast it is not even funny, and if they decide to go for a neutral (for ferrothorn) Ground move, Air balloon has me covered. I'm only afraid of switching Ferro -> Heatran if I fear fighting moves, and there's Bronzong + Reuniclus for the Special ones and Hippo + Reuniclus for the Physical ones. I use both Overheat and Flamethrower for when I'm unsure whether he'll stay or swap a vulnerable poke and to what he'll switch, as Flamethrower allows me to keep heatran in the field if out comes something the other moves cover and he can survive. With good prediction, these 3 types work wonders on tons upon tons of pokes, and often catches people offguard for some reason (e.g. I switch Heatran in to kill Ferrothorn, knowing he has a Garchomp -> Dead garchomp).

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Excadrill (M) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin

I started this SS team because I wanted to try out this new Physical sweeper everyone was talking about. Strangely enough, he's the one I'm least comfortable with on the team right now. I don't know, maybe I just suck (at using him or in general), but I find that he is far too frail for my liking. Even when I predict nicely and can get a free swords dance off one of his pokes, his check to Excadrill will always make me switch out because he dies to strong breezes. I've had him be OHKO by a Power Whip from a Ferrothorn, I shit you not. Rapid spin is a move that my team needs, but I find I don't have to courage to use it (even when I know he'll switch) very often because I'm afraid he might die and leave me without a physical sweeper.

That's not to say this mole's bad, not that. He's won me a few games after I killed the opponent's checks for him, and he's definetly a beast when set up. However, Drizzle/Rain Dance and Drought pwn him hard, forcing a switch to Hippo if I want to use him, and people will often have bulky pokes that check him anyway (see my own team). I don't want to rely on Garchomp for this role, but I'm very open for suggestions regarding this guy.

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Well, that's it for the pokes themselves.

So far, the biggest problems my team has had were Rain dance teams (obviously - rain owns almost everyone here) and Conkeldurr. Not fighting types in general, just Conkeldurr. I've killed myself thunder waving him at least once, and nearly lost matches solely because of him a handful of times, so Reuniclus pretty much has to stay.

Aside from that, I've been having a fair amount of success - my losses are usually due to my own incompetence, not some gaping flaw on the team that I can see. You might say "but rain dance is like the 2nd most prevalent team these days after sandstorm" - and you'd be right. So I'm open to suggestions on how to deal with it, because so far I'm pretty much reliant on Ferrothorn and careful switching back to Hippo to beat them, aside from using types secondary to water and prediction to finish some of the rain dance pokes.

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Thank you for having the patience to read such an unnoriginal team, and if you can also spare some constructive criticism, that'd be great :D.
 
I see a Gengar problem. Bronzong is your best Pokemon that can take two LO Shadow Balls. Gengar can easily Substitute on Hippowdon, Reuniclus, Ferrothorn, etc. Unless you want to stay in and take a hit. Substituting repititively can also waste your Trick Room turns. It's a threatening Pokemon to face against with this team. There's nothing you can actually replace in this team to fix that problem. I would suggest moving all your Bronzong's Atk EVs to SpDef to fix this problem. If you do so, then a LO Shadow Ball from Gengar will do 34.91% - 41.12%.

Now, I don't really see how this is an effective "Trick Room" team. Most of your slow Pokemon fail to do anything, while you've given Heatran max speed and you have an Excadrill with Sand Rush in the Sandstorm. So there's no use of having Trick Room in this team. It's probably better not trying to make this into a Trick Room team.

Not making it into a Trick Room team would probably make this team a lot more effective. Instead of giving Bronzong Trick Room, give it Stealth Rocks. Now replace Hippowdon with CB Tyranitar so you can actually counter Reuniclus, stop Jellicents from sweeping your team, etc. Here's the set:

Tyranitar @ Choice Band -- Sand Stream
Nature: Adamant - EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
- Pursuit
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Superpower

Now, you're also weak to Rotom-W that inflict WoW's as well. So replacing the fragile Reuniclus with LO with a CM Leftovers Reuniclus will help you a lot. Here's the set:

Reuniclus @ Leftovers -- Magic Guard
Nature: Bold - EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
- Psychic
- Recover
- Calm Mind
- Focus Blast

This should help improve your team by a lot.
 
Hi, Stenbuck. I have a few suggestions for this team.

Heh, I've used a team nearly identical to this one, with the exact Trick Roomers and weather.
Anyways, back to the rate.

The first thing that slapped me in the face was T-wave on Ferrothorn. Why would you want things to be slower than you if you're running a TR team? I reccomend that you replace Thunder Wave for Gyro Ball as an extra STAB that does a great deal of damage to fast Pokemon.

As for your comment about having more than 1 TR setters, having 2 or even 3 is the way to go. If your team is dependant on TR, you need a good amount of Pokemon to set it up under different circumstances.

Sand Rush on Excadrill... no, especially since its in a TR setting. Although it can be arguable to have a few Pokemon that can work outside of TR. I've had Garchomp instead of Excadrill, it eases your fighting type weakness and it has given me overall better results when I run out of TR. (Not to mention the Sand Veil hax).

Your team doesn't seem to really utilize TR. Heatran with a Timid nature and Exadrill with Sand Force are fast, and fast is slow in TR. I would revise the sweepers to be able to function in TR. Scizor can work arguably well with its slow speed and priority moves usable outside of TR.

Scizor @Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Hp/ 252 Atk/ 4 SpD
Nature: Brave
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-Turn
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit
- Superpower

Or maybe Tyranitar can be consisered:

Tyranitar @Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Hp/ 252 Atk/ 4 Def
Nature: Bold
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Superpower
- Pursuit

You can also just keep in Heatran and Excadrill, just make sure you make them slow.

Reuniclus should have Recovery. I would drop Shadow Ball to make room for it so its survivability is improved, since its a vital Trick Roomer, it needs to last as long as possible. Also, replace LO with Leftovers to aid its survival.

I would get rid of Flamethrower and Overheat on Heatran and use Fire Blast and Roar. Fire Blast is powerful and is in between Flamethrower and Overheat. Roar is for phazing, since your team lacks one.

It's rather tempting for me to suggest that you just get rid of Trick Room altogether, but TR is the main purpose of this team, afterall.

EDIT: Whoops, disregard my comments for Heatran and Roar. Hippowdon can phaze, my sincere apologies.
 
@Eternal

Hmm, thanks for the comments. That's some nice insight, and it makes sense. However, I have considered most of these points before, and since most of it seems to stem from Trick Room, let me first apologize for being misleading and clarify: while I did put that it was a trick room team in the title and it runs the skill on 2 pokes, it is not by a long stretch the main focus of the team. Many matches I don't need to use it at all - I only use it when the situation calls for it. The point about Excadrill and Heatran - I simply don't use them when Trick Room is up. It's only 4 turns effective anyway, and most of the pokes who can use it are resilient enough that they can stall and wear the opponent down while it's active. So it's more of a situational thing.

I have also run Stealth Rock on bronzong before and I don't think I ever used the move once. Most teams these days don't carry rapid spinners, and when they do, I often just use Hippo anyway to set them up again. As for your suggestion of using Tyranitar, I'd rather not - I've killed tyranitars with Reuniclus itself before (99% of the time they anticipate a switch when they see him so I just Focus Miss and hope it doesn't, well, miss - reuniclus can take at least one pursuit at full health in my experience, but the ttars may have been poorly built). Besides, without Hippo, I'd have no phazer, and Tyranitar has such a poor typing for the current metagame that I feel safer with Hippo. Might give him a shot one of these days though, so thanks for the advice.

As for Jellicent, while it is certainly an annoying pokemon, I've killed it a handful of times before - Reuniclus himself, while vulnerable, can usually deal with him using Shadow Ball, and Ferrothorn can usually outstall him if he can get a Thunder Wave/Leech Seed - if he isn't burned yet, even better as he can power whip for good damage.

Gengar - I've also met gengar before a few times. Maybe the opponents played him poorly, but I find that phazing him with Hippo, or that having trick room set up + shadow ball, reuniclus can kill him before he's killed himself. Besides, he's so frail that simply hitting him with neutral attacks (eg Heatran) will often break his subs and himself.

CM Reuniclus is definetly something I might try agaiin. I've used it before with less success than Life Orb, but I might've simply played poorly. The thing about that set is that it leaves me without Shadow Ball for the ghosts, which is about the only move my team has which is super effective to them.

@Max212

Thanks for the advice as well. It seems it was rather stupid of me to have emphasized Trick Room too much on the original post; it's a new addition to the team and it's been giving me some results so I decided to highlight it, but once again, it's just a move I use against very fast, very offensive teams to help me get up some status moves up, help Hippo get slack off, allow me to use super effective moves before they're used on me, etc. Excadrill and Heatran simply don't get used when it is up - if the opponent can trap me in such a way that I absolutely need to use them and trick room is already set up and will also spell death for me, then - well played.

Thunder wave on ferrothorn is surprisingly good, actually. If I'm currently against a poke I TWaved, I simply don't use TR as it will be slow already (and keep in mind, my pokes are so slow I'm often outsped by paralyzed pokes if it's not Excadrill or Heatran, unless I'm remembering it wrong and paralysis is negative priority instead of speed reduction). The main point of it is this - once Ferro switches into Hippo's killer, I twave his current poke or his switch in, which will often times be some sort of sweeper, which will severely hamper it - unless it's Conkeldurr as I mentioned in the original post, which is why I'm very wary of using twave if I see it on the preview.

For Tyranitar - see above - he only compounds my weakness to fighting and rain users, besides being weak to the same things Hippo is weak to except Ice. Take my own team, for example - every poke has at least 1 move with at least 2x effectiveness vs Ttar, and I'm fairly sure most of them (maybe not Bronzong) could 1shot him even.
Scizor - now that's something I haven't thought of before, even though I've killed a bunch of it. Will definetly try to fit it into the team and see how it goes. It'll probably help draw fire moves onto heatran - however, if Heatran dies, I could see myself getting seriously boned as I'll have 2 pokes with a 4x weakness and 2 pokes with a 2x weakness to fire.

Anyway, thanks guys - I've gotta go now so I won't be able to edit the main post right now but I'll adjust the wording to make sure TR is seen more as an ancillary move instead of the team's focus when I have time.
 
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