Ha alrighty. I'll take a look into it then. Thank you !!
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Format Discussion Scarlet/Violet Random Battle Sets
- Thread starter A Cake Wearing A Hat
- Start date
Is there any place where i can find the list of FFA sets? Wondering what that deo speed cosmic power set is supposed to be
Would tera steel dusknoir be better than tera fighting on Bulky Attacker? I've found that a few matchups (specifically non i-def corvi) become MUCH better with a defensive tera. It helps dusknoirs defensive role much more than the one-off attack of focus punch
I think very rarely are people going to tera dusknoir for the extra damage, as it's simply not worth it over a tera on another pokemon. It alleviates situations like this
I'd rather an extremely niche option to deal with one pokemon than a fighting tera that is all around unused
I think very rarely are people going to tera dusknoir for the extra damage, as it's simply not worth it over a tera on another pokemon. It alleviates situations like this
I'd rather an extremely niche option to deal with one pokemon than a fighting tera that is all around unused
I think very rarely are people going to tera dusknoir for the extra damage, as it's simply not worth it over a tera on another pokemon. It alleviates situations like this
My guess is that fighting tera is also possible to use to defensively react to incoming dark type damage?
Fighting is actually an entirely valid defensive option on SubPunch and it's in fact part of the intent of the set as a whole: being able to Tera Fighting and sub on a Dark-type can instantly put momentum on your side. Fighting is actually one of the better Tera Types for a Ghost, even defensively, due to this.
HERE:
https://github.com/smogon/pokemon-showdown/blob/master/data/random-battles/gen9ffa/sets.json
It's in a different folder to gen 9 rands' sets, which are linked here:
In RandomBattles all pokemon are given neutral natures.
My azelf had a jolly nature (+Spe, -SpA) - this isn't a visual error with the calcs, I didn't notice anything wrong with the stats
Copperajah has a +Atk -Spe nature here, it only attacked once
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9randombattle-2539279663-fo1j6fs02dplkf96u4h2xgv6nmi7gtppw
Replay for proof,
It was also missing 4 hp evs? I'm just not sure what's going on here
Is the missing hp evs for spikes? It had an hp value of 349 but plenty of other mons have even hp values.
yeah thats smart, thank you! i was really confused about that one
i did the math and the roll with copperajah can be done with/without the boosting nature, so it probably was a visual error with my calc
yeah it's an issue with the calcs, the numbers contradict each other (85ev neutral is 101 speed, +atk -spe is much slower)
Sorry for the false alarm
I can confirm that Pokemon never have boosting natures under any circumstances in Gen 9 Random Battle.
Thoughts on giving Miraidon Taunt (as an alternative to substitute) on Fast Bulky Setup sets?
Although it worsens its matchup into faster threats and does not prevent direct damage, it stuffs would-be Specs switchins (Fat) even harder by preventing encore, taunt, trick, and haze on top of what Substitute blocks.I
t also has the benefit of stopping opponents from attempting to counter-setup on its face, namely spdef-boosting sets like Crit-Me-Nots, Calm Mind users, and QD users. (This includes sleep-based QD users like Vivillon and Bellossom!)
I was also thinking of suggesting the following sets. I mostly just want to try them out.
Although it worsens its matchup into faster threats and does not prevent direct damage, it stuffs would-be Specs switchins (Fat) even harder by preventing encore, taunt, trick, and haze on top of what Substitute blocks.I
t also has the benefit of stopping opponents from attempting to counter-setup on its face, namely spdef-boosting sets like Crit-Me-Nots, Calm Mind users, and QD users. (This includes sleep-based QD users like Vivillon and Bellossom!)
I was also thinking of suggesting the following sets. I mostly just want to try them out.
- (Setup Sweeper) Miraidon @ Life Orb, Agility - Electro Drift - Draco Meteor - Dragon Pulse / Overheat / Dazzling Gleam / Taunt: An alternative to the Fast Bulky Setup set that is, theoretically, better suited to cleaning up frailer teams in a similar vein to Ampharos. Unlike Ampahros, however, it trades some bulk for a higher base speed that can address scarfers along with a Dragon typing as secondary STAB for Electric resists.
- Dazzling Gleam would let it abuse Tera Fairy against Dragons neutral to Dragon or intending to tera, Mach Punch, Sucker Punch, or Ice Shard; Overheat would let it abuse Tera Fire against fairies and Ice Shard.
- Dragon Pulse allows Miraidon to target Electric resists and immunities, especially other Dragons, without sacrificing its Special Attack.
- Taunt lets it set up against would-be checks that believe that they can outlast non-Taunt/Specs Miraidon, especially Grass-types.
- Life Orb is required to ensure breaking power: its typing and bulk are not sufficient to abuse Weakness Policy; all other options do not give Miraidon the oomph it needs to secure kills.
- (Bulky Setup / Fast Bulky Setup / Setup Sweeper) Iron Crown @ Weakness Policy / Leftovers / Life Oeb / Booster Energy, Agility - Psyshock - Two of (Tachyon Cutter, Focus Blast, Calm Mind): Already historically viable in OU and comparable to other setup Psychics (especially Metagross/Dusk Mane), Agility Iron Crown would serve as a more aggressive alternative to Calm Mind.
- Psyshock is required STAB to not falter to special walls, although Psychic could be argued for if the BP difference is significant for a faster-paced set (I disagree).
- Tachyon Cutter and Focus Blast have already shown success as powerful offensive anti-sash/anti-Sturdy STAB and coverage against Darks/Steels,respectively.
- Calm Mind could be argued for a double dance set, baiting typical Bulky Setup checks into effectively providing Setup opportunities with Tera or a free Weakness Policy boost.
- The item distribution would depend on the role:
- Weakness Policy is the main item across all roles, serving as a special version of the other Steel/Psychic weakness policy sweepers. This item does not need Calm Mind at all.
- Leftovers is fine if folding Agility into the current Bulky Setup set is preferred, though the double dance set would benefit from the extra turns of healing given by the longer setup time and the resulting sweep attempt.
- Life Orb boosts damage output but would likely require forcing Bulky Setup if not desired.
- Booster Energy improves damage output, trading a lack of recoil for only being a one-time use; its inclusion is partially a symptom of Fast Bulky Setup's item generation. (Tera typings would be identical to the current Bulky Setup set.)
- (Tera Blast User) Ramnarok @ Assault Vest, Polar Flare - Inferno - Blizzard - Tera Blast Ground:This set is similar to the AV set because both sets' main CAP equivalents are similar.
- Tera Blast serves to better hit Electrics and Fires that Thunder cannot adequately address, including: Hemogoblin, Mollux, Krilowatt (as Radiant form), non-Surf Plasmanta, Shox, Lanturn, and AV Pachirisu.
- Although losing Thunder sucks, being able to roll between the two moves would make Ramnarok's checks less sturdy without enabling it too effectively - Thunder is still scoutable through the use of bulky Water-types, for example.
- Thunder can alternate with Blizzard if losing Thunder is of concern, although it sucks to be unable to tell whether your electrics, fires, or waters truly check Ramnarok, a Pokemon that can frequently be as patient and ambiguous as its user wants until it is too late.
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-This isn't really how sets are generated. We don't get to pick and choose which moves get enforced over others in most cases. As such, we can't do "miraidon but it always has Draco Meteor and only sometimes also gets Dragon Pulse alongside it" or "Iron Crown but it always gets Psyshock and only sometimes gets Tachyon Cutter". You can learn more about this by reading the explainer thread.
-We have tried Agility Weakness Policy Iron Crown and it was bad in rands.
-Because of how common CAP pokemon are in CAP rands, we can only have one Tera Blast user among the CAP roster to make sure caps don't hog all the tera blast slots. That is currently Jumbao. It should probably stay as Jumbao.
Re: Taunt on FBS Miraidon:
- Not an issue. As per set generation, FBS enforces one setup move and two attacks. With no other limitations involved, This means that the fimal slot that would be free to choose between Substitute or Taunt.
- After validating the roles, this set is best as Setup Sweeper. This enforces Agility and only one of Electro Drift or Draco Meteor. Movepool culling will be required to guarantee both:
- Without hardcodes, all but one of the optional moves would necessitate removal; Dazzling Gleam or Taunt would be my preferred remaining moves.
- With hardcodes, Electro Drift can be enforced on Miraidon through
moveEnforcementCheckersto allow for an additional move. This would only allow Overheat to return to the movepool - Dragon Pulse would always conflict with Draco Meteor unless, undesirably, new precedent is set to make both moves compatible specifically for Miraidon. This is acceptable as Dragon Pulse's only purpose is to be a consistent damage option against frail electric-resistant/immune targets. - In conclusion, I would prefer to hardcode both Electro Drift and Draco Meteor under
moveEnforcementCheckersand to remove Dragon Pulse from the movepool. Failing that, limiting the final movepool option to either Taunt or Overheat would also be acceptable.
- What factors likely led to its failure? This is out of curiosity - If activating Weakness Policy was the biggest issue, the other items could work:
- Booster Energy requires Fast Bulky Setup, where it would be the only available item choice.
- Life Orb requires Setup Sweeper.
- Leftovers requires Bulky Setup.
- In all cases, only one item would be usable without (undesirably) splitting Agility across multiple sets. Booster Energy or Life Orb would be preferred.
- To handle moveset issues:
- A
moveEnforcementCheckershardcode could be used to enforce Psyshock on 100% of sets. Another could also be used for Tachyon Cutter or Focus Blast. This does not affect other Iron Crown sets. - If Calm Mind were to be kept, a role-and-species-specific hardcode would be necessary to force Agility onto sets. Removing Calm Mind from the movepool may be preferable here.
- A
- Understandable. This is new information to me.
You're missing a step here by not taking into account individual stab typings' enforcement rules. Dragon and Electric both have STAB enforced without exception, so no extra code would be required for that.
Hardcodes are usually to be avoided as a general rule.
We don't know what the exact point of failure was with Crown. All we know is that it resulted in a significant winrate decrease.
Also, we'll probably be adding Taunt LO CM miraidon, thanks.
Somehow missed the fact that specific typings always have their STAB enforced.
All good re: the rest!
lemme take a gander at some potential changes:
Destiny Bond on Delibird
Delibird has a not horrible speed tier, especially with the +1 it often receives sometimes from a rapid spin, and its not doing much damage anyways. Getting up spikes and destiny bonding seems like the best value you can honestly get for a Delibird, maybe just drop brave bird from the fast support set? (not sure if this runs into any coding issues but on paper its not the worst idea)
Earthquake Hitmonchan
Has Earthquake Hitmonchan not been tried? I feel like this is a pretty obvious option to at least sometimes generate, hitting poisons which often wall Hitmonchan.
I think this has much more use-case then say poison jab, because earthquake, especially when boosted or tera ground, hits most fairies for good damage anyways, and the super effective damage is greatly appreciated into many Pokemon Hitmonchan is completely shut down by right now. (Fezandipiti, Okidogi, Pex I guess, many more come to mind)
Just Give Everything Iron Defense+Body Press
Like for example Torkoal is pretty cool right now, but a lot of the times the coverage moves it has (Solar Beam, Earthquake basically) feel really underwhelming, as many bulky waters which solar beam is supposed to hit can recover the damage back (thinking milotic) and earthquake is honestly never really used (at least I don't use it like at all basically)
But with I Defense Body Press, firstly the defensive typing becomes a lot better (most ground and rock moves become very manageable with a +2, and water is usually droughted out), so an opponent may not have a super effective move to hit torkoal
Also, lava plume helps even more with physical attackers, picking up burns and getting setup fodder for an iron defense
I think it should be considered at the very least, if feasibly codeable.
It'd also be interesting on a bunch of other mons- iron defense body press mudsdale and iron defense body press iron hands both sound interesting
and like if you were really cool you could do iron defense no retreat body press knock off falinks but I think that might get like 20% win rate
Meteor Beam more
Maybe with agility, this just seems like a pretty good alternative to CM (at +1 you're doing a lot of damage anyways, and Meteor Beam sets are consistently pretty good)
While it technically takes two turns to get in motion, a +2 speed Lunala is already pretty scary and you generally have the bulk to pull it off, especially if you have moonlight recovery (not sure if this would be good in practice though)
Also I think meteor beam iron moth sounds interesting but one this is lunatic speak and two at that point just do choice specs I guess
oh my god, meteor beam jirachi with grass knot aura sphere psychic stab I'm a genius
yeah I'm not thinking straight but one of these suggestions has to be fine
Destiny Bond on Delibird
Delibird has a not horrible speed tier, especially with the +1 it often receives sometimes from a rapid spin, and its not doing much damage anyways. Getting up spikes and destiny bonding seems like the best value you can honestly get for a Delibird, maybe just drop brave bird from the fast support set? (not sure if this runs into any coding issues but on paper its not the worst idea)
Earthquake Hitmonchan
Has Earthquake Hitmonchan not been tried? I feel like this is a pretty obvious option to at least sometimes generate, hitting poisons which often wall Hitmonchan.
I think this has much more use-case then say poison jab, because earthquake, especially when boosted or tera ground, hits most fairies for good damage anyways, and the super effective damage is greatly appreciated into many Pokemon Hitmonchan is completely shut down by right now. (Fezandipiti, Okidogi, Pex I guess, many more come to mind)
Just Give Everything Iron Defense+Body Press
Like for example Torkoal is pretty cool right now, but a lot of the times the coverage moves it has (Solar Beam, Earthquake basically) feel really underwhelming, as many bulky waters which solar beam is supposed to hit can recover the damage back (thinking milotic) and earthquake is honestly never really used (at least I don't use it like at all basically)
But with I Defense Body Press, firstly the defensive typing becomes a lot better (most ground and rock moves become very manageable with a +2, and water is usually droughted out), so an opponent may not have a super effective move to hit torkoal
Also, lava plume helps even more with physical attackers, picking up burns and getting setup fodder for an iron defense
I think it should be considered at the very least, if feasibly codeable.
It'd also be interesting on a bunch of other mons- iron defense body press mudsdale and iron defense body press iron hands both sound interesting
and like if you were really cool you could do iron defense no retreat body press knock off falinks but I think that might get like 20% win rate
Meteor Beam more
Maybe with agility, this just seems like a pretty good alternative to CM (at +1 you're doing a lot of damage anyways, and Meteor Beam sets are consistently pretty good)
While it technically takes two turns to get in motion, a +2 speed Lunala is already pretty scary and you generally have the bulk to pull it off, especially if you have moonlight recovery (not sure if this would be good in practice though)
Also I think meteor beam iron moth sounds interesting but one this is lunatic speak and two at that point just do choice specs I guess
oh my god, meteor beam jirachi with grass knot aura sphere psychic stab I'm a genius
yeah I'm not thinking straight but one of these suggestions has to be fine
Suggesting doom desire/future sight on assault vest jirachi.
AV Rachi is a forced moveset. It always has iron head, body slam, u-turn and drain punch. Drain punch here is the weakest link of the bunch really. It is rarely ever clicked, even in bad mus (as u-turn is usually favourable). The healing itself isn’t that amazing even with SE damage, especially without leftovers.
I suggest adding doom desire and/or future sight to jirachi as I believe its short-term bulk, strength and pivoting capability would suit the nature of these two moves.
AV Rachi is a forced moveset. It always has iron head, body slam, u-turn and drain punch. Drain punch here is the weakest link of the bunch really. It is rarely ever clicked, even in bad mus (as u-turn is usually favourable). The healing itself isn’t that amazing even with SE damage, especially without leftovers.
I suggest adding doom desire and/or future sight to jirachi as I believe its short-term bulk, strength and pivoting capability would suit the nature of these two moves.
Seconding this. If both moves were to be added, though, then a move incompatibility rule should be added in order to avoid generating both simultaneously (unless this is desirable? I think that losing any of its remaining options would suck.)
We tried both actually. It was bad.
Hi, sorry to bother you,
What is the website/software where you get this UI and data?
Showdex - an Auto-Updating Damage Calculator Built into Showdown!
Created by BOT Keith & analogcam
Inspired by all those times Pokeaim highlighted text to scroll sideways on the Damage Calc page lmao
Ever wonder if that Choice Band Toxapex can really OHKO your Dragapult with Knock Off? (there’s actually a 25% chance that it could) Or maybe you find yourself running out of time running calcs, so you end up making a game-throwing decision under pressure.
Then say no more fam, we got the sauce you’ve been looking for!
Introducing Showdex, a browser...
Created by BOT Keith & analogcam
Inspired by all those times Pokeaim highlighted text to scroll sideways on the Damage Calc page lmao
Ever wonder if that Choice Band Toxapex can really OHKO your Dragapult with Knock Off? (there’s actually a 25% chance that it could) Or maybe you find yourself running out of time running calcs, so you end up making a game-throwing decision under pressure.
Then say no more fam, we got the sauce you’ve been looking for!
Introducing Showdex, a browser...
team thought future sight sucked on it and wanted body slam and psynoise more often so we cut it