Scizor (Specially Defensive Choice Band)

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Ok, to the best of my knowledge, there hasn't bee a writeup on this for OU, and it works fairly well, so I guess I'll post the set.

I'm also aware that this set is extremely similar to the Ubers Choice Band set, but it's different enough, and in OU it works quite well too.

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http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/scizor

[SET]
name: Cautious Choice Band
move 1: U-turn
move 2: Bullet Punch
move 3: Pursuit
move 4: Superpower
item: Choice Band
nature: Careful
ability: Technician
evs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD

Why this set belongs on site:

- More special bulk than the usual CB Scizor allows it to survive attacks on its weaker defensive stat.

These calcs either show un-STAB'd SE attacks, or some of the strongest neutral attacks in OU. A few have calcs of return damage by Scizor's respective attack.

0 SpA Bold Celebi's HP Fire vs 248/252 Careful Scizor: 49% - 58.3%
... 8 Atk CB Scizor's U-Turn vs 252/220 Bold Celebi: 105% - 124.8%

252 SpA Timid (No Life Orb) Celebi's HP Fire vs 248 / 252 Careful Scizor: 61.8% - 73.5%

252 SpA Timid (w/Life Orb) Celebi's HP Fire vs 248 / 252 Careful Scizor: 79.3% - 94.5%

Timid LO Starmie's Hydro Pump vs 248/252 Careful Scizor: 51.9% - 61.2%
... 8 Atk CB Scizor's U-Turn vs 4/0 Timid Starmie: 124.4% - 147.3%

252 SpA Modest Choice Specs Rotom-W's Thunderbolt vs 248 / 252 Careful Scizor: 53.4% - 63%
... 8 Atk CB Scizor's Pursuit vs 0/0 Timid Rotom: 64.7% - 76.3% (without a switch) or 85.5% - 101.2% (with a switch)

These calcs are of more common attacks, with less power behind them. I'll add more later.

Jolly Choice Scarf Flygon's Earthquake vs 248/252 Careful Scizor: 39.7% - 47.2%
... 8 Atk CB Scizor's Bullet Punch vs 0/0 Jolly Flygon: 48.8% - 57.8% (2HKO after SR)

0 SpA (Wish Supporter) Vaporeon's Surf vs 248/252 Careful Scizor: 27.1% - 31.8%

0 SpA (Rapid Spinner) Starmie's Surf vs 248/252 Careful Scizor: 24.8% - 29.7%
... 8 Atk CB Scizor's U-Turn vs 252/4 Timid Starmie: 100% - 118.5%

0 SpA (Defensive) Rotom's Discharge vs 248/252 Careful Scizor: 22.2% - 26.2%
... 8 Atk CB Scizor's Pursuit vs 252/168 Bold Rotom: 40.1% - 47.4% (without switching) or 52.6% - 62.5% (with switching)

- Creates more momentum than the usual CB Scizor because it can switch into and survive more powerful attacks.

- Hits defensive stats of 343 Hp / 236 Def / 284 SpD, while still retaining an attack stat of 447 after factoring in the Choice Band, which makes him a well-rounded pivot-point for a balanced or offensive team.

- Can still act as a revenge killer and trapper thanks to CB Bullet Punch and Pursuit.

Set Comments:

- U-Turn should be considered the primary move on this set, since it allows Scizor to act as a scout and hit opponents hard. It increases momentum, allows you to make educated switch-ins, and it allows Scizor to escape if he's caught by a Magnezone.

- Bullet Punch follows since it's the very thing that made Scizor such a powerful force in OU this Gen. It allows Scizor to act as a revenge killer, and it gives the team priority to check things like DD Dragonite.

- Pursuit allows Scizor to hurt Pokemon like Rotom and Starmie when they switch, but it's much less powerful than on the normal CB Scizor, so you should consider carefully when to use it.

- Superpower hits certain Steel-types hard, but with Scizor's attack stat lowered, it's not nearly as powerful as it usually is (sometimes it won't even OHKO 252/252 Bold Blissey after SR damage).

Additional Comments:

- Entry hazzard support, especially Stealth Rock, is a must when using this Scizor, as the increased momentum it generates can be used to force even more switches than CB Scizor usually does. Stealth Rock also damages most of Scizor's counters worse than Spikes.

- Wish support, though not required, is helpful for keeping Scizor in the game. Vaporeon is a good choice for this.

- Scizor appreciates the removal of bulky Steel-types. LO Heatran is perfect for this. Heatran also appreciates Scizor's scouting abilities and the increased momentum of coming in after a U-Turn.

- Bulky Waters, though not as annoying as Steel-types, still pose a problem for this set. Shaymin is a good Bulky Water killer that works well with Scizor and appreciates the scouting and momentum it provides. Celebi is another good choice.

Teammates and Counters:

- Like most Choice Band users, Scizor works well with Pokemon that can draw in moves that Scizor resists, like Ice, Dark, and Dragon attacks.

- Appreciates physically bulky teammates who can sponge the physical attacks that target Scizor's weaker (with this spread) defensive stat. Gyarados, Swampert, Vaporeon, and Rotom-A are all good choices.

- Works best with heavy hitting teammates like LO Heatran, Shaymin, or Gyarados.

- Rapid Spinners are good friends to Scizor. Starmie is one of the better choices.

- Magnezone, Heatran, Zapdos, and Rotom-H stop Scizor cold if they predict correctly.
 
The CB set with SpD EVs is definitely great – something that's been used for quite some time. However, even though this is excellent and all, I believe it doesn't warrant its own analysis. Just like with other Scizor sets, a designated spread can be mentioned in AC without any difficulty.
 
I also agree with Setsuna. This is the exact same set as the standard Choice Band with an alternate EV spread. AC is the best place to mention this.
 
Alright, I can agree with that assessment. The only reason why I even posted this is because it plays a lot differently than the Standard CB set, but I suppose its playstyle can get a mention in AC as well.
 
So be it then.

Now, I'm not sure that the spread listed in the OP is the way to go about this, since no matter what Scizor needs the power to hit stuff like Gengar, Flygon, Mamoswine (etc) as hard as possible. For instance, the spread that I used to use was something similar to this: 176 HP / 230 Atk / 104 SpD which basically enables Scizor to take two consecutive Draco Meteor from CS Latias, never get KOed by LO Starmie's Hydro Pump after one turn of Stealth Rock, and take special hits generally better. On the other hand, with Adamant and 230 Atk EVs Scizor is still able to OHKO Gengar with Bullet Punch and U-turn continues being a very threatening weapon. This spread, though, isn't intended to turn Scizor into a special wall or something like that (even Ubers CB isn't thought to be like that) as opposed to what's been presented in the OP of this thread. In short, I think having the power to hurt certain Pokemon is extremely necessary, and the idea of having a fully defensive Scizor onsite doesn't really appeal to me, to be quite honest. Let's hear what my QC colleagues think about this.
 
I have to say Setsuna's set looks more useful. Choice Specs Rotom-A will 2HKO max SpD Scizor with Thunderbolt so it doesn't really seem like it needs that much investment. If you swing some of that bulk over to offense you can get a KO on Rotom-A if it has taken a little damage or always OHKO if they switch out. Same thing goes for Starmie.
 
Just a note, but Specs Latios does 84% - 98.8% with two Draco Meteors to Setsuna's spread, so it will still KO most of the time. Surf / Thunderbolt will always OHKO, with or without Rocks.
 
Just a note, but Specs Latios does 84% - 98.8% with two Draco Meteors to Setsuna's spread, so it will still KO most of the time. Surf / Thunderbolt will always OHKO, with or without Rocks.


And thats relevent how? This set is for 4th Gen OU, not Ubers or 5th Gen
 
Just wondering... why isn't that the actual spread onsite? It's not like CB Tyranitar where in order to get useful SDef on it you have to basically not invest in Attack- this one has 228 Atk and an Adamant nature, which is very, very close to max. Honestly, I'd be ok with just replacing the general Scizor spread on-site with Setsuna's, and mentioning max HP in AC.
 
I think CB Scizor really only needs 172 Attack EVs which is enough to OHKO Gengar after SR. I don't think he loses out on any KOs and 84 HP / 252 SpDef will give him some more special bulk.
 
Now that I think about it, would it be worth having a set that is similar to the "Ubers Trapper" set up for OU?? Roost is really useful on Scizor, especially since he's such a good check to so many Pokemon, you'd want him being able to heal up and take more beatings than he normally does.
 
Actually this set was really really good for countering Latias back then. Due to the metagame shifting in another direction after the (unneeded) Latias-Ban it lost some of its viability.
(This Sciz-Set + SDef-CB-Tar were countering every Latias-Set out there even Specs and could hold their own vs. various other things too.)

I think a mention in AC is appropriate by now.
 
Yeah Shrang, I was thinking about a spdef focused set with Roost. The only problem is that its basically set up fodder for EVERYTHING. I ended up running Toxic, which works decently, apart from Heatran and Skarmory.
 
I've used Specially Defensive Scizor in the past and definitely think it should have an AC mention, Setsuna's spread looks good to me too. As for an "Ubers Trapper" set in OU, I'm not so sure about it because I feel Scizor would be quite weak without the +2 attack boost that the Bulky SD Scizor provides. That would probably have to be tested though, since I've never used such a set in OU
 
I still want to know why Setsuna's spread shouldn't just be the main spread. The loss of 24 Attack EVs isn't a huge deal, and it makes sense to have defensive EVs that actually achieve something rather than just going "max hp herp derp".
 
Now that I think about it, would it be worth having a set that is similar to the "Ubers Trapper" set up for OU?? Roost is really useful on Scizor, especially since he's such a good check to so many Pokemon, you'd want him being able to heal up and take more beatings than he normally does.
Imho, I think that shrang is right. I have a spread that could work too.

name: Trapper
move 1: Pursuit
move 2: U-turn
move 3: Bullet Punch
move 4: Roost
item: Leftovers
nature: Adamant
evs: 220 HP / 56 Atk / 252 SpD
The spread allows Scizor to 2HKO Gengar with Bullet Punch (without Stealth Rock) as well as nearly OHKO the standard Starmie set with U-turn. The EVs optimize Scizor's Special Defense stat.

On the offensive:
U-turn vs. LO Starmie 96.2% - 113%
Pursuit vs. LO Starmie 73.3% - 86.3%
Bullet Punch vs. Sub + 3 Attacks Gengar 54.2% - 64.1%
Pursuit vs. Sub + 3 Attacks Gengar 95.4% - 113%

On the defensive:
LO Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 220/252 Scizor 58.9% - 69.2%
LO Starmie Thunderbolt vs. 220/252 Scizor 31.1% - 36.9%
Leftovers Gengar Hidden Power Fire vs. 220/252 Scizor 84.6% - 100.3%
Leftovers Gengar Focus Blast vs. 220/252 Scizor 35.6% - 42.3%
 
I'll go ahead and make the spread that I mentioned the primary option on Scizor's Choice Band set; the current one will be relegated to AC.

As for the other ideas that some of you have been discussing, I suggest you guys open a new thread and discuss it there.

Locking this now.
 
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