Seismitoad (QC 1/3)

Chronic Smash

Chronic Smash

QC: TheCanadianWifier



seismitoad.gif


The Search is so very long we let fade open, there's a ray of hope beyond despair.

Overview
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+ Great Typing in Water / Ground making it only have one weakness.
+ Great ability in Water Absorb.
+ Walls common physical attackers like Feraligatr.
+ As it has great bulk, you can use it Physically Defensive or Specially Defensive.
- Common Pokemon it would normally wall like Pyroar and Typhlosion carry HP Grass.
- Lacks reliable recovery outside Leftovers.

Set: Defensive
########
name: Defensive
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Toxic / Knock Off
move 3: Scald
move 4: Earthquake / Earth Power
ability: Water Absorb
item: Leftovers
evs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SpD or 200 HP / 252 SpD / 56 Def
nature: Relaxed / Sassy

Moves
========
- Stealth Rock to give hazard support to your sweepers
- Toxic can be used to spread status
- Knock Off is used because of it's fantastic utility. It's great against Eviolite users such as Ferroseed and Togetic, and it's also good for taking on Choice users and Life Orb users, as those get Knocked Off, and it weakens the power of the Pokemon that got knocked off.
- Scald is great for spreading burns and crippling Physical sweepers.
- Earthquake is the best STAB option as Seismitoad has pretty respectable attacking stats, not amazing, but not completely terrible. It's mainly used to hit stuff like Dragalge, the rare AV Muk, it also hits Jynx for a shit load of damage, because Jynx has god awful Physical defense
- Earth Power has nice utility against Intimidate users like Qwilfish, and stuff like Pawniard for more damage, as Earthquake at -1 doesn't do much damage against Physically defensive Qwilfish. And it hits Gatr a little harder as Gatr has lower Special defense than Physical Defense so Earth Power hits it harder.

Set Details
========
- We run Leftovers as Seismitoad has no reliable recovery besides Leftovers.
- 200 HP EVs equal to a Leftovers number, we max out Physical bulk and the remaining EVs get put into Special Defense so we can optimize our bulk.
- We run Relaxed nature because losing out on bulk for Seismitoad is no good, no bueno. And unless you run it with Swift Swim losing out on Speed isn't really all that bad.
- You can opt to go for Special Defensive Toad with 200 HP / 252 SpD / 56 Def to increase the ability to take Special hits a lot better while retaining some Physical bulk.
- You can go Sassy if you plan on making it Specially Defensive, Sassy doesn't cut any bulk, it lowers your speed but it doesn't really matter all that much, and it can check Fire spam pretty well.

Usage Tips
========
- Sesimitoad is great to send out against stuff like non-banded Sawk as it can take a Close Combat with relative ease and KO or leave a huge mark.
- Keep it away from Freeze-Dry users like Cryogonal or Articuno as they can just eat Sesimitoad alive.
- Try to scout whether a Special or Mixed attacker will have HP Grass or not, if they don't, Seismitoad is safe to come in.
- Sending it out against Choice locked users like Pyroar or Typhlosion locked into Flamethrower or Fire Blast.

Team Options
========
- Fire types: Fire pokes such as Typhlosion, Magmortar, Pyroar make great partners to Seismitoad as they resist both Grass and Freeze-Dry while Seismitoad can come in on opposing Water types thanks to Water Absorb, and has the ability to switch into Rock types and Ground types with relative ease.
- Grass resists, and Bouffalant: Grounded Poison-type Pokemon, such as Dragalge and Garbodor can absorb the Toxic Spikes that the opponent sets up, as Seismitoad doesn't like being poisoned at all, as it puts him in a bit of a clock. Bouffalant deserves a mention, because of his wonderful ability in Sap Sipper, as he can get an attack boost as it can lure all the incoming Grass-moves. Also Grass-types like the very popular Vileplume deserve mention, as they form the SeismiPlume core, which is almost unbreakable, and it can also absorb Toxic Spikes as Vileplume is half Poison-type. Ferroseed can also be good with Seismitoad to form a hazard stacking core, Seismitoad gets up Rocks, Ferroseed gets up spikes, and you got a solid core there.
- Clerics / Wish Passers: As Seismitoad is quite propense to being statused and has no reliable recovery outside of Leftovers. Pokemon such as the ever-so-annoying Audino and Lickilicky make great partners as they can Heal Bell to aide your Seismitoad and your team in case they get statused and Wish to replenish Seismitoad's HP by a lot as those two have great HP stats.
Rain Dance
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name: Rain Dance
move 1: Rain Dance / Stealth Rock
move 2: Surf / Scald
move 3: Earth Power
move 4: Sludge Bomb
ability: Swift Swim
item: Damp Rock / Leftovers
evs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
nature: Modest

Moves
========
- Stealth Rock is an option on Seismitoad if you want to start with it and set up rocks at the beginning of the game, but if you run another Hazard setter I'd stick to Rain Dance if I were you.
- Surf is used for the rain boost as one of the two main STAB moves.
- Scald can also be used if you want to do great damage and spread burns at the same time. Depends if the RNG is generous with you. :P
- Earth Power as your other obligatory STAB, if you're not running Earth Power and EQ along with Scald, imo don't run Seismitoad.
- Rain Dance in case unnecessary weather comes up, or in case your Rain runs out and your main Rain inducer is dead.
- Sludge Bomb is an option to hit stuff like Sceptile and Grass types not named Vileplume or Ferroseed.

Set Details
========
- 252 SAtk and 252 Spe to maximize our sweeping potential
- Damp Rock if you're setting up the Rain for the team
- 252 Spe after Swift Swim outspeed the entire unboosted, even Timid Accelgor.
- Use Leftovers if you wanna have some sort of recovery, or if you dislike Life Orb, which is understandable.

Usage Tips
========
- I recommend switching Seismitoad in, when Rain is up as it can destroy anything weak to a rain boosted Surf or Scald.
- It kind of depends on Rain to be as fast as he is in Rain, and to do sky high damage with Surf with Rain up.
- I don't suggest setting up like right away, make sure stuff like Mantine and Ferroseed are weakened or dead by the time you get up rain and get the sweep, otherwise your sweep will be cut short. If you see them dead, you can start setting up and sweep

Team Options
========
- Hazard setters: If you intend on using this Seismitoad set, you better have hazard setters, like Crustle for instance. Crustle can set up the hazards to support Seismitoad on getting kills it normally could not.
- Weather inducers (in case you don't run Damp Rock and run Life Orb): Weather setters include Uxie, support Liepard with Damp Rock can help Seismitoad to get going early-mid game, since Drizzle is banned, your best best is using Rain Dance+ Damp Rock.
- Other Swift Swim abusers: Ludicolo, Gorebyss do a great job in supporting Seismitoad as they all take advantage of the Rain that is set up by Seismitoad itself, or by the main weather inducer.

Other Options
########
- A choice specs set could be useful, as it has decent special movepool but that's better suited to faster, more powerful offensive pokes
- An Assault Vest set might sound cool, but Seismitoad cannot afford losing Toxic and Stealth Rock (cough* BT cough*)
- Offensive Stealth Rock with Stealth Rock / Hydro Pump / Earth Power and either Grass Knot or Sludge Wave can do, with Max SAtk and Spe and Modest Nature with Life Orb is an option.
- SubToxic

Checks & Counters
########
**Grass-types**: Grass types do a magnificent job at countering Seismitoad, although they have to watch out for burns. Sceptile comes into mind, it can come in on Seismitoad and set up a Substitute, while Seismitoad can do nothing about it, which can make Seismi a bit of a sitting toad (pun intended).
**Hazard stacking**: Seismitoad is propense to all 3 hazards, and since it has no reliable recovery besides Leftovers, it's pretty easy to wear down, espcially if you have a full field of hazards (although a good player wouldn't allow that).
**Status**: Seismitoad is also very propense to being statused, meaning that Seismitoad will be losing HP more quickly than a bullet train (if you catch my meaning). Poison and Burn damage will eventually take it's toll, which means you either have to play it very carefully or you need to put a cleric on your team.
**Ferroseed**: While being one of his best partners, he's also one of his worst enemies. Ferroseed completely checks the Rain Dance set, as it doesn't get 2HKOed by neither Earth Power nor Earthquake, and it can retaliate with a powerful grass attack, it can Leech Seed and recover it's HP or wear Seismitoad down with it's Life Orb.
 
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I'd make mention of an offensive set, as it's able to beat most common rock setters and prevent hazards. zeb posted about it when shiftry was in the tier, but I still think it's worth a mention, maybe at the bottom?

something like:

Seismitoad @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Modest / Timid
- Stealth Rock
- Hydro Pump
- Earth Power
- Grass Knot / Sludge Wave
 
TheCanadianWifier said:
I'd make mention of an offensive set, as it's able to beat most common rock setters and prevent hazards. zeb posted about it when shiftry was in the tier, but I still think it's worth a mention, maybe at the bottom?

something like:

Seismitoad @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Modest / Timid
- Stealth Rock
- Hydro Pump
- Earth Power
- Grass Knot / Sludge Wave
Click to expand...

Ill post it in the the bottom.
 
There isn't a lot here that I see wrong the main thing I see is that TheCanadianWifier and XenoBlade911 sludge bomb is a lot better than wave because of the extra poison chance in exchange for 5 power unless wave gets some kind of ko on a mon that bomb doesn't. Mention substitute somewhere as seismitoad even with clerics fucking hates toxic.
 
Seismitoad said:
There isn't a lot here that I see wrong the main thing I see is that TheCanadianWifier and XenoBlade911 sludge bomb is a lot better than wave because of the extra poison chance in exchange for 5 power unless wave gets some kind of ko on a mon that bomb doesn't. Mention substitute somewhere as seismitoad even with clerics fucking hates toxic.
Click to expand...

Stealth Rock and Dual STAB is required and that's what clerics are for anyway, not like you could do too much damage to them.
 
the rain dance set should have sludge bomb instead of grass knot so you can get past lilligant and sceptile. grass knot is sort of unreliable and you already hit water-types pretty hard with earth power
 
Your current HP EVs gives 400 HP, which is divisible by 8. A Leftovers number is a multiple of 8 + 1. What you need is 200 HP EVs to give you 401 HP.
 
add offensive SR as a main set definitely. Toad has great offensive STABs and decent coverage so it can pose an offensive threat after setting up SR. I don't quite agree with LO; I've always run Leftovers on offensive Toad to avoid cutting into its bulk. The rest of QC can feel free to disagree on this though.

For the Rain set, mention Stealth Rock in Moves because toad is one of the few SR setters that can also make use of rain in rain teams. You could also mention Timid somewhere to outspeed all Ludicolo and KO after some residual damage, but don't slash it

All toads hate Toxic Spikes so you could mention a grounded Poison-type under team options
 
You should also at least list down the reasons why Earthquake is used on the utility set instead of Earth Power (harder hits on Dragalge, Jynx, and most Fire-types). That said, Earth Power can still see a mention in 'Moves' as a stronger attack to use against Feraligatr.
 
I don't think you need to mention "mediocre Speed" in the Overview because it's not really that important and Seismitoad is actually rather fast for a defensive mon. I'd also add in its 4x weakness to Grass is pretty annoying for it since it pretty much always loses momentum vs Grass-types and is easy to bait in with HP Grass.

I'd also mention in Set Details for defensive that its EVs are really customizable: you can do defensive, specially defensive, mixed, etc.

Mention Earth Power in Moves for defensive as well for Pawniard and Qwilfish.
 
I'm going to let other people QC this, mostly because Seismitoad is popular so I know they will, but your formatting needs fixed.

First, there shouldn't be a line break under any section. It should just be:

Overview
########
+ Great Typing in Water / Ground making it only have one weakness.
+ blah blah etc.

This is true for every section, including ones with ==== rather than ####

Sets shouldn't be numbered, and they also shouldn't be named differently above the pound signs and below it. Example:

Set 1: Stealth Rock Lead
########
name: Standard

Should be:

Standard
########
name: Standard

(though it should probably be named Defensive)

EVs shouldn't be this or that. What I mean is:

evs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SDef or 200 HP / 252 SDef / 60 Def
nature: Relaxed / Sassy

Should be one or the other, not either or. I'd probably go with physically defensive, and then mention a specially defensive spread with Sassy nature in Set Details.

Team Options shouldn't be formatted with the **Category** like Checks/Counters is. Just make them points like you would in Set Comments or Usage Tips.

The Rain set also needs to have the same name above and below, and I'd just call it Swift Swim.

Checks and Counters should only have the **Category** and not the dash before it like you have right now:

-**Grass-types**:
should be
**Grass-types**:

Also, when you add the offensive set, Leftovers is better than Life Orb on it, and it needs Timid to outrun Adamant Shiftry and bone it with Sludge Bomb.
 
evs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SDef or 200 HP / 252 SDef / 56 Def
nature: Relaxed / Sassy

I'd just cut it down to the physically def spread with Relaxed, and mention a special def spread in set details. mention how it allows it to check fire spam better, etc

Other than that, this is really well done
when the above is implemented, consider it [QC 1/3]
 
TheCanadianWifier said:
evs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SDef or 200 HP / 252 SDef / 56 Def
nature: Relaxed / Sassy

I'd just cut it down to the physically def spread with Relaxed, and mention a special def spread in set details. mention how it allows it to check fire spam better, etc

Other than that, this is really well done
when the above is implemented, consider it [QC 1/3]
Click to expand...
XenoBlade911: first and foremost, do this.

Overview:
  • Cut the following
+ Great bulk in 105 / 75 / 75.
+ It could do decent as a Swift Swim sweeper.
+ Respectable offensive presence.
- Somewhat limited physical movepool.
- 4x weakness to Freeze-Dry means Cryogonal poops on him.​
  • All of these are fairly trivial points that either don't matter or are really easy to see by glancing at the top of the analysis. Instead, just mention that it has good mixed bulk and can function both offensively and defensively. For cons, you can mention that many Pokemon that it normally walls like to run HP Grass.
Set (Standard):
  • Just name it Defensive.
  • Be sure to make TCW's change.
  • Make Toxic / Knock Off the fourth move.
  • SDef -> SpD
Moves (Standard):
  • Change the order that you mention the moves to reflect the change in set order.
  • Mention that Knock Off is used for its utility rather than its power. You make it sound like it is only used for Eviolite Pokemon, but it's important to mention that it can help Seismitoad take on Choiced/Life Orb attackers.
Set Details (Standard):
  • Just mention Sassy nature when you mention the SpDef spread. You already explain why Relaxed is good, so I'm sure they'll understand why Sassy is good as well.
  • Mention that you can use a Bold or Calm nature with Earth Power.
Usage Tips (Standard):
  • I don't understand the point about non-Choiced Sawk. You don't use Seismitoad to check it and should only really use Seismitoad for that if you don't have anything better to take the hit. Plus, most Sawk are Choiced anyways.
  • The last point goes hand-in-hand with the one before it, so you can cut that.
  • Talk about finding the right time to set up Stealth Rock; Seismitoad checks a lot of stuff, and having it take unnecessary damage from powerful attackers is rarely worth getting up Stealth Rock early.
Team Options (Standard):
  • Cut the point on spinblockers. Seismitoad is plenty bulky enough to set up Stealth Rock more than once in a match.
  • Cut the point on phazers. Sure, it's nice to have, but they aren't particularly useful alongside Seismitoad over any other defensive Stealth Rock user.
  • Merge Bouffalant, Grass-types, and grounded Poison-types into one point about Grass resists. You can mention that grounded Poison-types are especially useful for absorbing Toxic Spikes.
  • Mention Flying and Normal resists. These are important to fit on any team, and as they are most commonly Stealth Rock setters, it's important to find other ones to use alongside Seismitoad. You can mention Rotom, Ferroseed, and Klinklang.
Set (Swift Swim):
  • Rename to Rain Dance.
  • I've always used Rain Dance Seismitoad as an independent late-game cleaner. I'm sure it works fine on dedicated rain teams, but I'd like to see Stealth Rock and Damp Rock mentioned in Moves and Set Details respectively with a note that they're better options on rain teams.
  • Speaking of which, Life Orb should be slashed before Leftovers.
  • Change Surf / Scald to Hydro Pump and mention Scald in moves alongside Rain Dance for a more supportive role.
Moves (Swift Swim):
  • Don't talk about how cool it would be if Seismitoad got Ice Beam. Analyses aren't for theorymonning.
Set Details (Swift Swim):
  • Talk about Life Orb here.
  • Don't bother mentioning Ludicolo when talking about the option to run Timid. Ludicolo is almost always Modest, and Seismitoad is naturally faster.
Usage Tips (Swift Swim):
  • This needs to be revamped to reflect that Rain Dance Seismitoad is a late game cleaner. Talk about when to bring it in (when its checks and counters are sufficiently weakened or removed).
Team Options (Rain Dance):
  • Merge the second and third point and just say that if you're using Seismitoad on a rain team, other things that function well on rain are nice.
  • Mention things that can lure or weaken Seismitoad's checks and counters. Life Orb Mesprit is a good choice because it wrecks Ferroseed and specially defensive Water-types like Mantine and opposing Seismitoad. It also has Healing Wish to give Seismitoad a second chance at sweeping.
Other Options:
  • Offensive Stealth Rock Seismitoad is usually better off with Leftovers because it still has good bulk and typing to check shit.
Checks and Counters:
  • Cut Freeze-Dry. It was already mentioned earlier in the analysis, and Freeze-Dry users would check Seismitoad pretty well even without the move because they have good special bulk and reliable recovery.
  • Mention defensive checks to the Rain Dance set. I guess you can just call it Water Resists and mention Ferroseed, specially defensive Seismitoad, Mantine, etc.
 
XenoBlade911 are you still working on this? Did you implement Hollywoods check? If you implement a check please reply to the thread saying implemented so QC knows to check back.
 
Yeah, I'm still working on it. I'm sorry if I didn't reply for a while, I've been really busy with school, but I'm almost done with the changes! I hope school doesn't hog my time. :(
 
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imo mention Freeze-Dry users in C&C , Cryogonal, Lapras and Articuno can eat Seismitoad's hits up and strike back and OHKO it with Freeze Dry
 
Why would he mention Lapras when nobody use that? And 'eat up'? Most Articuno will hate taking a Toxic on the switch + taking Stealth Rock damage and Cryogonal won't enjoy taking a Knock Off or a Toxic either. Sure they will force it out, but that doesn't really stop Seismitoad from doing its job and from crippling them on the switch =/ Also you act like Seismitoad will stay on these lol..

also XenoBlade911, remove the Earth Power slash from the Tank set. It is situational and it does less than Earthquake against Feraligatr.. you should probably run some calcs next time.

That Rain Dance set is also bad lol, what are these items and these moves doing there >:(


Rain Dance Sweeper
########
name: Rain Dance Sweeper
move 1: Rain Dance
move 2: Hydro Pump
move 3: Earth Power
move 4: Stealth Rock / Sludge Bomb
ability: Swift Swim
item: Life Orb
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Modest

With Timid mention in Set Detail to outspeed potential Timid Ludicolo and Adamant Kabutops in and outside of rain. Timid also allows Seismitoad to outspeed certain threats outside of rain too such as Modest Mesprit and Samurott.

Please work on the skeleton's formatting, at the moment it's really hard to read =/

Update the whole thing and tag me when you are done.
 
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