Send me on my way...please :(

willchr2004

Hey guys (and gals?), this is my new team. My last one looked cool, but running a togekiss, salamence and latias (now banned anyway) was just too much ice for me to handle. This time i hope my poke's will play to their weeknesses a bit better.

All changes this far are in blue

The Lead:

Azelf
azelf.png
@ Focus Sash

252spd/252sp.atk/4Atk
Nature: Naive
Ability: Levitate

stealth rock
psychic
fire blast
explosion

Standard, perhaps, but it works and its purpose, if nothing else, is to set up the rocks and explode and 80% of the time, thats what he does. Fire blast kisses goodbye to skam and foretress whilst psychic provides STAB and wide coverage. If needed, i can set up rocks and switch him out if there are other steel types who havent led (metagross, skam, foreress, magnezone) but usually he sets up the rocks and kills the other.

Attacking sweeper:

Scizor
212-f.png
@ life orb

252 Attack / 224 HP / 32 Speed?
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Technitian

Bullet Punch
Brick Break
Bug Bite
Sword Danse

This guy im a little unsure of. If he gets off a sword danse, there is very little that can kill him as a bullet punch is often enough to kill just about anything with tech and STAB boost. Only thing im uncertain of it its survivability which is often shakey. It fears neutral damage as if it were super effective at times so im wondering if I invest more in HP than in speed. Brick Break over super power as with 1 sword danse it kills those threats that super power wud do anyway and can help with dual screeners, especially blissey who is set up fodder to this guy due to toxic imunity. life orb over choice because I find the ability to chose and power increase is much needed to effectively sweep.

Sp.Attacker and Scizor switch in

Heatran
485.png
@ Choice Scalf

Speed 252 / Sp.Atk 252 / 4HP
Nature: Rash
Ability: Flash Fire

Fire Blast
Explosion
Earth Power
Dragon Pulse/HP Grass

Scizor will die it its hit with fire, end of, and it thus acts like a fire magnet if you will. Heatran is a great help to this as if I predict the fire move i recieve no damage and a 50% fire boost which on a scalf heatran is definately something to fear. I chose Dragon Pulse as my final move as HP Ice and Thunder are both covered in my later pokemon and it hits with some great neutral coverage. I love explosion, and thus i will not fear switching this bad boy in and taking down a troublesome pokemon so this for me is a staple.

Bulky Water and Heatran Cover

Vaporeon
134_vaporeon_1_m.png
@Leftovers

252 Def / 224 HP / 32Speed
Nature: Bold
Ability: Water Absorb

Wish
Protect
Roar
Surf

With ice coverage elsewhere I decided make this fella as bulky as possible and make him into a staller. His ability Water Absorb lets him take and water attacks aimed at Heatran and use them to its advantage. Protect is to aid with damage recovery via wish and to let toxic do its work. Wish also aids in letting scizor pull of its sword danses if the need arises. With a thunder weakness and the rare grass types covered by heatran my next counter comes into play:

Speedy Special Sweeper - electric absorb

Jolteon

jolteon.png
@ choice specs
252 Sp.Atk / 252 Speed / 4HP
Nature: Timid
Ability: volt absorb

Thunderbolt
HP Ice
Shadow Ball
Baton Pass

As the replacement for electivire, it does effectively the same job...just a bit better. HP ice helps scalftran with dragon types and pretty much guarentees me a kill on any of those due to speed and 4x. Baton pass is for scouting as no other move at this time seems viable. Shadow ball has more type coverage and is a strong attack in general. T-bolt...no brainer. This guy can switch into the thunder moves that this team is a little weak to and use it against the opposition. T-bolt should also 1HKO so with timid nature il be sure to breed a 31 IV Speed

Immediate power mixed attacker

Mix-Mense (as recommended)
373_salamence_1_m.png
@Life Orb
80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Nature: Rash
Ability: Intimidate

Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse
Brick Break/EQ/stone edge
Roost
Fire Blast

Thanks to the help of tab, i now have something that hits hard, and straight away. Great stats, lots of resistances and a roost to heal off stealth rock and other damages whilst minimising ice and thunder damage. Draco Meteor is a nice touch to a mixed attacker as brick break will be unaffected by the drop in Sp.Atk. Not sure on moves tho as the drop in sp.atk will still be fealt so perhaps a dragon pulse would be more appropriate. Moves is something im definately not sure of in this set so any help would be much appreciated.

Thats all folks! Let me know what you think: insult, comment, suggest replacements, whatever. Any help appreciated.

Peace,
 
Immediately, i notice that a lead Aerodactyl would tear through most of your team. Maybe change out your Electivire for a strong tank, like Mixed Tyranitar?
Oh, it's spelled "Dance", not "Danse"...
 
Hi. You've got a pretty good start for a team here, but there's a few problems with it that need fixing.

First of all, I'd probably go with a CB Scizor over SD, which should make it a lot easier for you to wear down teams by using U-turn, as well as giving you a more reliable check for Salamence. I don't really see SD Scizor fitting into this team too well, as you don't have many ways of dealing with its main counters.

Vaporen is ok, but you may want to try out Roar over Toxic. Vaporeon will be forcing plenty of switches, and being able to rack up Stealth Rock damage on pokemon like Salamence is pretty useful, and Roar still lets you deal with pretty much everything Toxic does.

Electivire is the main problem with this team imo, as it's simply not good enough in OU. While it may get great type coverage, it's not strong enough to do any real damage or sweep with regularity. I'd suggest going with something more standard like SD Lucario, which will give you a much more dangerous sweeper, and an easier way to finish off games. If you go with a Lucario, I'd use Stone Edge over Crunch, as you're currently going to struggle against stall teams, and Stone Edge SD Lucario is great at beating the most common types of these.

Finally, I don't really think Togekiss fits into the team too well. You'd be much better off going with something that helps to round off your teams resistences, as well as helping out with the stall problem I mentioned previously. Your team is currently lacking ways to hit things hard right off the bat, as well as a good switch in to fighting attacks. A Mixed Salamence with Draco Meteor/Fire Blast/Brick Break/Roost would solve both of those problems perfectly. Salamence isn't as bulky as Togekiss, but it does give you Intimidate, which is incredibly useful in helping you switch around threats, and it should go a long way towards helping you break defensive teams.

Good luck.
 
salamence is something iv always wanted but never found use for. If you think salamence fits the cut then thats good enough for me! Any excuse to use such a power house. Ok, with regards to electivire: I dont actuall like him much, its just my team is a bit weak to thunder so hes a nice way on capitalising on this. I have a T-Tar which i can use: payback, EQ, Stone Edge, Rest @chesto. Il probably have to move the moves around somewhat tho but his amount of weaknesses is just so large and they are such common moves, and sand storm will give me nothing but problems.

Changes:

Togekiss for Mix Mence,

correct spelling of 'danse' lol

Scizor with CB and new move set: BP, U-turn, super Power, ??

Who to switch Electivre for? Perferably something that covers Thunder and ice?

------
EV spreads Ok?
 
If you are going to use Togekiss, this EV spread might work better:

252 HP/240 DEF/16 SPE, Calm Nature

The main difference from the normal set is that Togekiss has more defensive Evs. People seem to forget that Togekiss has a 95 base defense and just make it as specially bulky as possible. Why? What is the point in that? Togekiss is not Blisseylite—it can't wall special attacks all day and expect to survive. People wouldn't use special attacks on Togekiss anyway if they have the choice, plus Togekiss can't wall boltbeam or get switched in as often due to Stealth Rock. I threw some in there to maximize the defenses according to X-Act's applet to maximize longevity.

Compared to a normal 252/4/252 Sdef Togekiss, which has 374 HP/227 Def/361 SDef, this has 374/286/297.

Multiplying HP by each of the defenses leaves me with 84898, 135014 for the original and 106964, 111078. These numbers mean that my Togekiss has 25% more defense while only losing 17% of its Special Defense bulk. Hopefully I did this math right. If you spot an error, please let me know.
 
how can it only lose 17% Sp.Def if it has a Sp.Def nature and 160 in Sp.Def and then u remove all nature and EV boosts? Surely the percentage drop would be far more? I agree that a boost in Def is important but not speed as thunder wave which it usually gets off, allows me to focus more on Sp.Atk?
 
nice advice for togekiss... shame i have to go through breeding for those IVs to get it again!! Oh the pain!

Still not sure as to what will replace electivire cos i need those ice and thunder moves whilst i also need resistances to ice and electric! Its doing my head in, i cant think of anythin!
 
ok screw it. Im thinking of just taking SD Luke. He can take ice and thunder moves ok i guess. so:

mence for togekiss
scizor CB
Electivire for SD Luke

...but with this im still weak to aerodactyl and ice/electirc? :(
 
You'll almost never see an Aero outside of the lead position, and you can easily beat a lead Aero with Vaporeon if need be. Ice shouldn't be a problem with Heatran, Vaporeon and Scizor. The lack of an electric resist is the only legitimate issue there. but Jolteon is the only electric type this team should really have to worry about offensively, as Heatran makes a pretty good Rotom check.
 
willchr2004 said:
salamence is something iv always wanted but never found use for. If you think salamence fits the cut then thats good enough for me! Any excuse to use such a power house. Ok, with regards to electivire: I dont actuall like him much, its just my team is a bit weak to thunder so hes a nice way on capitalising on this. I have a T-Tar which i can use: payback, EQ, Stone Edge, Rest @chesto. Il probably have to move the moves around somewhat tho but his amount of weaknesses is just so large and they are such common moves, and sand storm will give me nothing but problems.

Changes:

Togekiss for Mix Mence,

correct spelling of 'danse' lol

Scizor with CB and new move set: BP, U-turn, super Power, ??

Who to switch Electivre for? Perferably something that covers Thunder and ice?

------
EV spreads Ok?
Click to expand...

First off Salamence is definately worth trying, DD and Mixmence are both extremely powerful if played correctly.

Second off how does electivre cover ice? I would say use Jolteon as it is immune to electric attacks and can actually hurt something with a choice specs thunderbolt, with amazing speed to back it up. Electivre is really a soft option, while you will see "its super effective" alot, its power is so low you may as well see "well ya tried but no thanks".
 
hmm. Jolteon sounds nice to meee as its a more viable attacking option. I already have an offensive and jolteon handles special very nicely. Immunity to electric is nice too as it coveres the role of electivire nicely whilst actualy being able to killl stuff immediately. Nice speed, good special. Im thinking choice, HP ice, HP grass, T-bolt, shodow bolt, which overall gives me some much needed added type coverage :)

I had a thought tho. Perhaps I could baton pass onto scizor some how? If i boost his attack with SD twice, he is near unstopable with his priority bullet punch, or with perhaps a ninjask which wud boost speed and attack, he could sweep with brick break and bug bite? Plan, or not
 
willchr2004 said:
hmm. Jolteon sounds nice to meee as its a more viable attacking option. I already have an offensive and jolteon handles special very nicely. Immunity to electric is nice too as it coveres the role of electivire nicely whilst actualy being able to killl stuff immediately. Nice speed, good special. Im thinking choice, HP ice, HP grass, T-bolt, shodow bolt, which overall gives me some much needed added type coverage :)

I had a thought tho. Perhaps I could baton pass onto scizor some how? If i boost his attack with SD twice, he is near unstopable with his priority bullet punch, or with perhaps a ninjask which wud boost speed and attack, he could sweep with brick break and bug bite? Plan, or not
Click to expand...


Scizor can use SD itself, and you would need to see what HP works better for your team for Jolteon.
 
hmm, HP ice? Maybe to help scizor out seeing as i rele dont want to choice it, i should invest in HP instead of speed as iv been looking through various threads and not many people seem to use scizor with 252 on speed

made changes im willing to make, let me know what you think people! thanks a bunch so far, iv had some great advice
 
Ok charge beam is useless on a choice specs attacker really, as you will be most likely be using Jolteon as a hit and run pokemon. Baton pass is like U-turn without damage. You send out Jolteon and Baton Pass the first time it is out. That way you know the opponents response to Jolteon. For instance if they like to send in Flygon, it gets downed the next time it swithces in by HP ice. Just an example, but its certainly more useful then charge beam.

Also I would recomend using new Mixmence over Classic Mixmence for more raw destructive power.
 
true that. I forgot i was running choice. Is there nothing else i can replace baton with? It just seems a little waisted...if only it cud learn u-turn :(
 
willchr2004 said:
true that. I forgot i was running choice. Is there nothing else i can replace baton with? It just seems a little waisted...if only it cud learn u-turn :(
Click to expand...

Unfortunately Jolteon's movepool is rather shallow, you could try signal beam, but that doesn't really accomplish much with shadow ball in the same set, also I edited the previous post and dont feel like repeating myself so take a look.
 
I tested out the set and found that it was really effective but lacked the defensive pokemon to take the hit for the more frail and powerful ones. Someone suggested i switch vaporeon for swampert, but even with that change its still a little lacking in defence. Anyone got any idea as to what i can do to take some of the more powerful and fast pkemon's attacks?
 
Well hi =],
You have a good team there but there are a few problems and il try to help as much as i can =P..

Well first of all i think ur better of running Taunt in on of the slots for Azelf.Id put it over Psychic because i really think its not of much importance.Taunt lets you shut down a majority of leads and can even prevent rocks being put up throughout the whole match which will help ur Salamence wonderfully.I suggest running Flamethrower over Fire blast because the risk of missing really isnt worth it IMO.But that all deppends on ur choice =P.

Heatran seems fine.Id suggest stick with D-pulese it helps much more.More on swampert being a threat later lol.

I do suggest get a CB on ur Scizor because SD does need some support which ur team lacks.CBscizor is one of those "no brainers" that can fit in on any team.I think itl help you much more than ur current set.

Vaporeon seems okay as well.But i do suggest run toxic over roar because it allows u to stall out a good amount of pokes.But roar is also a pretty good option.Stick to whichever one suits you best.

As for jolteon put the 4 Evs in Def.Yah i kno it wont do wonders but still increasing that horrible Defense as much as possible will always help =P.And Hp ice is a horrible choice for Specsjolt Tbh.The only thing it can accomplish is kill gliscor as the standard mence gets ohk0ed after SR dammage from T-bolt.So id suggest use this vacant moveslot for Hp-grass which Heatran cant spare a slot for.HP grass also lets u take care pokes like Donphan and Hippowdon.

As for Salamence id suggest running this set
Salamence @ Life orb
Intimidate
16 Atk/240 S.Atk/252 spe
Draco Meteor
Outrage
Fireblast/Flamethrower
Earthquake

This set helps you combat stall better which u do have some issues with.If u run taunt on Azelf it should stop SR being put up a reasonable amount of times so yah try it out =P.

Well hope i helped =]
 
Yes. My salamence has been changes, sorry, i forgot to put that in. My salamence is infact the exact set you posted ha. Roar is rele nice on vaporeon but i also feel the need for toxic but i dont know which slot to fil as roar has been rele useful, especially if theres a salamence stairing me down that wants to take more damage from stelth rock. I will switch taunt for psychic as fire blast thus far, most opposing leads have been steel.

Another change to my vap is that im gonna get rid of all seed EV and put it into HP as not once has my vap gone first anyway and it seems like a waisted opportunity to add more bulk if I dont decide to fill the gap with swampert.

Consider this change to scizor: keep LO (one sword dance and it messes up the world...i just cant see that kinda power coming from CB) I have made scizor max attack and then put the rest into defenses HP and special. I was thinking of changing one of his moves to Baton Pass which can be passed onto mence, seeing as it resists fire, who can proceed to sweep with outrage or EQ. Scizor is strong with the investments in defensive side and can thus take a hit well enough to pass it on. If the need comes, vaporeon can pass on a wish to keep it alive. Plan? Or change for CB?
 
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