Setup Smash [OU RMT]

Maci12

This is the team I have been testing for the past few weeks, and with these exact movesets I went 24 wins - 2 Losses. If there's anything that I can improve on/change in my team please tell me.

As you can probably surmise from the title, most of the pokemon are heavy hitters and all but the lead have a setup to maximize their potential.

MY TEAM
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CHANGES IN BOLD

LEAD
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Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 80 HP/252 Atk/176 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Iron Head
- Trick
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Punch

Classic Lead Jirachi. Trick first move to screw with setup and other leads, then Stealth Rock. After the trick turn, most leads switch to Heatran, or a similar fire type, at which point I switch to Kingdra who has a 4x resistance to fire. EVs for attack are to maximize Iron Head damage in case Jirachi is up against a lead like Froslass. Fire Punch is the most recent addition to this set because it enables Jirachi to take down Steels who otherwise Wall'd the set.
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ANNOYER
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Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP/220 Def/36 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
-- Thunder Wave
-- Grass Knot
-- Recover
-- Leech Seed

Celebi is the teams newest addition, a pokemon to fill the spot of Lucario on the team. Celebi adds good balance to the team, because up until now, Infernape has been the only true Gyrados counter on the team, and Gyrados can OHKO Infernape without any boosts. With Thunder Wave, Gyrados (and other DD users) loose a key aspect of the ability: speed, and thus many pokemon can kill them after that. Grass Knot provides neutral STAB damage to Gyrados, however Celebi's main purpose is to paralyze it. Leech Seed is on the set to bring down walls, Recover is so that Celebi can keep kicking for a while.

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SUB - MINDER
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Mismagius (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 48 HP/220 Spd/240 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Substitute

In OU, I can't even describe how much of a beast Mismagius is. I switch into a Special Attacker or a Ground Pokemon, and then Sub. They usually can't break the Sub on the first turn, and so I start Calm Minding. 10/26 times I used this set, I was able to Calm Mind to Max SpA and SpD, and Super Effective Special attacks did nothing to my Sub. Once there I just Shadow Ball and HP Fighting respectively. Mismagius is among my favorites on my team.

The EVs and nature are important. 48 HP allows Mismagius to sub 5 times (with leftovers), 220 Speed with a Timid nature allows Mismagius to outspeed the the 1212304087236 things with 100 base speed and a +speed nature, so she gets off the sub and calm minds.

Another thing that's good about Mismagius is that I can switch into her from Trick Jirachi if it is a Ground attacker because of Levitate forcing them to switch.

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CURSELAX

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Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 172 HP/170 Def/168 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Curse
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Rest

A new addition to the set, at the loss of Miltank. Snorlax is, and has always been a beast at Cursing. Also, because of much higher SpD than Miltank coupled with Thick Fat, he can set up Cursing on much larger array of Pokemon. I debated between Crunch and Body Slam because I like Body Slam's STAB and chance of Paralysis, however Ghosts with Levitate would wall this set 100% otherwise, and I would have to switch out =/. So far he has been tested 6 times, and in every battle he has taken out at least 2 pokemon (most was 5 pokemon before Machamp took out).

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SUB-DRAGON DANCER
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Kingdra (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 112/252 Atk/144
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Waterfall
- Substitute

Kingdra is my powerhouse and possibly the pokemon I use best on this set. With a 4x resistence to Water and Fire, and only one weakness (Dragon), Kingdra can set up a Substitute/Dragon Dance Chain on pretty much every pokemon in OU. After two DDs, there are very few things that survive a hit from STAB Waterfall or STAB Outrage. Also
Kingdra with the given EVs outspeeds all of its Dragon counters in OU after a single DD, while bulking up its Sub. By far my favorite Pokemon.

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SCARFNAPE
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Infernape (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 24 Atk/232 Spd/252 SAtk
Rash nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
- Overheat
- Close Combat
- Thunder Punch
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Scarfnape is a great addition to my team. With high SpA (Nature and EVs), he comes in quickly and can both destroy and scout. On a Salamence with 1 DD, he comes in and HP Ice OHKOs. With the choice between Overheat and Fireblast I chose Overheat because of more power and higher accuracy. Scarfnape is not made for longevity, it's switch in and out so more power was preferred. With the EVs given Overheat first round does 52% to Starmie, which was always appreciated, because I simply had to put in Lucario and Extreme Speed OHKO it. I switched U-Turn for Thunder Punch for greater type coverage, and the ability to get greater damage on many of its water counters, particularly Gyrados.


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THREATS

--Subseeders. I have no clue why since the majority of Subseeders get their ass kicked by Scarfnape, but generally by the time he switches in the seeder has Substituted, and to use Overheat and brak the sub, I lose SpA.
--Water Types. Water Types are not so much dangerous to me as I have no way to Super Effectively Damage them. However, Kingdra is a nice switch in on Water Types, because they generally carry no moves to Super Effectively damage him.
--Payback Machamp. For some reason, every time I see PaybackChamp, he clears 3 of my pokemon. I've comeback past that, but for some reason, it kicks my ass.
--Salamence/Calm Mind Latias. Circumstantially, Salamence and Calm Mind Latias are threats. If both Kingdra and Infernape are down, they walk all over my set.
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POKEMON TO LET GO

--Others - Depending on what I'm told here.

If you have any suggestions for my team please tell me =).
 
First I see an error. Lucario I'm guess wants 252 Spe and not 141. haha it's ok I do that sometimes to.

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- Looks great. only thing I suggest is maybe switching U-Turn for Grass Knot as a surprise factor against Swampert leads. This is only if you want to go out of the box and have a good surprise option.

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- Again great. As mentioned at the top I'm sure you just had a typing error. Try Crunch over Ice Punch. Though standard, it works. Plus everyone who you would be Ice Punching will be able to finish you off before you can touch them.
Salamence - Fire Blast/Earthquake
Zapdos - Most of the time faster Heat Wave
Flygon - Earthquake
There are more but my mind is blank haha.

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- I love how your using the surprise factor here. Good job
I suggest Scarf Gengar here though if you don't do what I suggest with Infernape later.

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- Snorlax does it's job better. The only downfall is that it has to use Rest but with it's better all around Bulk it's worth it.
Snorlax w/ Leftovers
nature: Careful
Ability: Thick Fat
Evs: 216 SpD/ 120 Def/ 172 HP
Moveset:
Curse
Earthquake
Crunch
Rest

Gets great coverage. 216 SpD is a jump point. 120 Defense is standard and rest were put into HP for some more bulk.

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- This shows how you are un creative with Ev Spreads. You copied right off of Smogon with the 24 SpA even though you don't have a special attack. Use this ev spread I came up with.
112 Hp/ 252 Atk/ 144 Spe
Lets you outrun latias/Gengar after DD and makes it so standard Starmies Thunderbolt/Ice Beam has a slight chance to break your sub.

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- Switch out U-Turn for Thunderpunch. Your team is horribly Gyarados weak. This takes care of that problem. If you switch Mismagiues to Scarfed Gengar then switch this to a Special Mixed Sweeper

Great team. I see a few things wrong though.

Gyarados rapes your team
Once Infernapes gone Salamence pushes through your whole team.
Life Orb Gengar can put a big dent in your team.
You have no good counter to Calm mind Latias although you can weaken it.


Overall great team.
 
Thanks for replying! Haha, I'll fix the typing error on Lucario, and on Kingdra I did that without thinking. The 24 SpA assumed you used Hydro Pump, and I chose an alternative so I'll fix that as well.

As for being both Gyrados weak and Mence + Latias weak, I have Kingdra. He's initially slower, but when I switch out Kingdra, I switch him onto a Fire/Water so he can set up on them without taking damage and so by the time those get out Kingdra is faster and stronger. However should both Kingdra and Nape fall, I'd get raped.

Life Orb Gengar HAS put a big dent in my team, as it outspeed Mismagius who can be key.

As for changing U-Turn Out on Nape and Jirachi, I agree, that ability hasn't done much for me on either, particularly on Jirachi, since by the time he finishes setting up, hes at 30% and the enemy has Scarf.

As for the Miltank/Snorlax switch, I'm on shaky ground. I like the paralysis from Body Slam, and the fact that it is STAB. Also, because of Scrappy I can Surprise Ghosts with Levitate, though with the Curselax set you offer, they already have something to fear.

Thanks for being the first to reply =)!
 
On Mismagius, use the EV spread 48 HP/ 240 SAtk/ 220 Speed. This spread takes the wasted EVs from running 252 Speed and puts them into Special Attack. With 252 Speed, Mismagius wasn't outrunning any threats because of its Speed being lowered by Hidden Power Ground. The new spread gives Mismagius just enough Speed to outrun +Speed-natured base 100s.
 
Hey Maci12.

I've seen your team now, and i examined it closely. So far, the team looks good. however, you do have some threats that can absolutely wreck you. no problem, we'll try to fix it =)

So i'm sure you heard this from the other people, Gyarados is a major problem for your team. Your only answer to Gyarados is Infernape, which isn't really reliable since it's so frail, and it can't come in on Gyarados easily aswell. Gyarados can easily come into Jirachi and Lucario with relative ease, and it can start to set up from there. BulkyGyarados also taunts Snorlax, making it almost useless. After 1 Dragon Dance it OHKOs Mismagius with Waterfall.

Now we have to fix this problem. Since you said Lucario is the weakest link, i suggest that you replace Lucario with Celebi. Celebi is a reliable check to Gyarados since it can cripple it with Thunder Wave, and then Grass Knot it to doom. Ice Fang won't do to much aswell since Celebi is very bulky, and Ice Fang has such a low Base Power. So the set i suggest is here:

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Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Curse
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe
Moveset:
~ Thunder Wave
~ Grass Knot
~ Recover
~ Stealth Rock / Leech Seed

Okay, so simply, you can switch this in on Gyarados, and Thunder Wave it. Then Grass Knot and Recover when neccesary. Pretty straight forward. You should use Stealth Rock now, i'll explain later why. You could also use Leech Seed. Leech Seed something like Blissey and switch out, which'll help your other team members.

Another problem you might encounter is Salamence. Now this 1 is a lot harder to counter effectively, since you need to know the set first. Infernape does revenge kill it, however. I suggest you use a Jolly Jirachi with max Speed in order to at least tie with +1 Jolly/Naive Salamences. Next, use Ice Punch over Stealth Rock and Fire Punch over Grass Knot. You don't need to kill off Swampert, since you can Trick it and it's doomed, but if i were you i would save the Trick for Salamences. Fire Punch for Scizor and Lucario, which can't hurt you a lot since you outspeed both and they cannot really hurt you a lot with Bullet Punch and Extremespeed.

Note: Just to make sure Grass Knot is not a good option, it fails to OHKO Swampert. (212 Atk vs 216 Def & 401 HP (80 Base Power): 224 - 268 (55.86% - 66.83%))
I hope i helped a bit =)
 
Thank you very much, that's a big help to me, and I noticed that Grass Knot wasn't effective against Swampert when tried =). The reason I like Jirachi as the SR is because after the Trick, most leads switch out, giving Jirachi an free turn to setup. However Grass Knot is history, and Fire Punch gives greater type coverage.

Thanks again!
 
Hmm, i've seen your team, Maci.
Just a few minor suggestions:
Countering Latias/Salamence
I feel that you need another Ice Beam/Punch on your team.
I don't think that HP Ice is enough to counter them.
Either that, or you keep Kingdra in your hand until really really sure that you wanna risk killing Lati/Sala.
Maybe sacrifice Iron Head on Jirachi for Ice Punch.
Payback Machamp
Try having a Sweeper on your team that doesn't need boosting to carry out it's duties.
I understand that you have the Choice Scarf Infernape, but do you want to risk losing the battle just because you don't have a counter?
Try using a Starmie somewhere.Again, i don't know who on your team you could try replacing.
That's my thoughts on your team.
Overall, that team of yours is MEAN, it's just perfect.
Do you have problems with Baton Pass Teams?
 
For Snorlax may I suggest Return/Body Slam and Fire Punch? With those you get STAB and you dont get walled by Rotom and Gengar. The only thing that walls you that I can think of is Heatran, and he wont be doing much with resisted Fire Blast. Oh and other Steel's get slapped with Fire Punch. Oh, just realized you would then get walled by Rocks, but Nape, Celebi, and Jirachi all capitalize on that. Hope this helps.
 
HP Ice actually OHKOs Mence and Latias who aren't EVd for SpD, and because of Scarfnape being incredibly fast, he outspeeds them with a few Dragon Dances under their belt.

Actually, oddly enough Snorlax destroys PaybackChamp because Curse makes it slower (it might even start slower), and better equipped to deal with it.

Actually I have HUGE ease with Baton Pass Teams, especially ones where the Lead is the Passer. Jirachi's Trick really screws with Smeargle, and once any one of my pokemon has a slight set up, the Baton Pass Team gets wrecked.

I would consider Starmie, but like you said I wouldn't know who to cut to replace her since everyone has a special niche in the team.
 
Maci12, like i said, relying on Infernape to revenge kill Salamence and/or Latias is pretty gimmicky. As a Choice Scarfer he's pretty frail, and he won't survive that long. You're better of giving Jirachi the job of Revenge Killing with Ice Punch and Fire Punch. But it's your team, just trying to help out =)
 
Maci12 said:
HP Ice actually OHKOs Mence and Latias who aren't EVd for SpD, and because of Scarfnape being incredibly fast, he outspeeds them with a few Dragon Dances under their belt.

Actually, oddly enough Snorlax destroys PaybackChamp because Curse makes it slower (it might even start slower), and better equipped to deal with it.

Actually I have HUGE ease with Baton Pass Teams, especially ones where the Lead is the Passer. Jirachi's Trick really screws with Smeargle, and once any one of my pokemon has a slight set up, the Baton Pass Team gets wrecked.

I would consider Starmie, but like you said I wouldn't know who to cut to replace her since everyone has a special niche in the team.
Click to expand...

Come to think of it, Infernape makes a good Latias Killer, along with Salamence.
As i mentioned earlier, you might want to get rid of Iron Head on Jirachi for Ice Punch. Iron Head doesn't do much other than Stab, and having a counter to the 2 dragons once your Infernape goes down is really handy.

And regarding Baton Pass teams.
You would might want something like Taunt or Bullet Punch to deal with Ninjask.
Baton Pass teams =/= Baton Pass Chains
2 Common things to be careful of would be Gliscor and Ninjask.
Especially Ninjask.
Even if you swap in Jirachi(Assuming that it is still alive, and assuming that Ninjask is not the lead pokemon) successfully on the 2nd Turn, the resultant Speed Boosts when passed before Trick, can still be enough to kill your entire team.
Case in point:
Ninjask +2 Speed, Baton pass to an Electivire.Electivire wrecks havoc, especially if something manages to take that Infernape out of the picture.
There are certain Baton Pass teams, also, that pass on to a Bulky bulky receiver. Like Metagross, Dragonite, Tyranitar.etc You might want to look out for these.
 
Generally when I have met Ninjask, he is the first target to start the passing, and after I trick him he is stuck on statting up, and that forces a switch, and he also is useless as a baton passer later. But for Baton Passers after the lead, if their passing speed, I generally have to use Infernape to Overheat kill (not to many Passers are Water).

However, regarding the Taunt/Bullet Punch abilities, I am trying to work in a priority move somewhere on the team, but for Taunt, I wouldn't know where to put it since the majoirty of my Pokemon need Setups and 2 Abilities for Coverage, and many of them need the fourth spot for support options.
 
Chileno, I know that leaving Nape to do my Dragon Work is risky at best, but so far I haven't ever lost to a dragon with him, +1 DD Mence, because he outsped them, and he's SpA EVd.

And on the subject of Jirachi, he uses Trick the First Move, so he loses speed, making him a lackluster Revenge Killer, and also I would lose a way to effectively stop walls such as Blissey and Lax on Jirachi. Iron Head + Serene Grace = No setup, and Blissey takes HEAVY damage from it.

I could potentially give up Fire Punch for Ice Punch (I want to keep SR for the reasons I stated in a prior post), what do you think about that?
 
It looks like a pretty solid team :). I've run the same Jirachi lead, and have had far more success with body slam over fire punch, allowing him to paraflinch. However, I've noticed that without Fire Punch and Infernape, steels wall your team to kingdom come. Perhaps a Magnezone, or Dugtrio (to kill them off with EQ, but Magnezone is probably better)?
 
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