Metagame Shared Power [Leader's Choice]

[Clefable]

Priority Flinch Team — Now With Secret Anti-Psychic Terrain Tech Elitists DON'T Want You To Know

Everyone and their mother has been testing out Triage teams, so let's take a look at a Gale Wings squad! The game plan is simple: fire off Serene Grace Air Slashes at +1 priority and flinch the opponent to death. What could be more satisfying?


Click here for importable

With Gale Wings and Serene Grace, Air Slash and Hurricane become priority moves with a 60% chance to inflict a secondary effect. Pelipper provides rain for accurate Hurricanes and passive recovery through Heliolisk's Dry Skin, which helps our birds stay at 100% health. Togedemaru gives the team immunity to Electric moves and allows Heliolisk to spam Electrify, and Scarf Serene Grace lets Toge cosplay as Jirachi, flinching with Iron Head and Zing Zap.

Any team whose main strategy involves priority moves has to have a way to deal with Psy Terrain — that's where Steel Roller Celesteela comes in. The bamboo ultra beast is not only one of the best Lele walls, it also carries Steel Roller to remove terrain and spam Air Slash. Between Leech + Protect, Lefties, and rainy Dry Skin, it is remarkably easy to keep Celesteela at full to keep firing off Air Slashes and Rollering away terrain.

The team is definitely a very viable ladder pick. As a Priority team, it matches up well versus HO not carrying Psychic Terrain. Even though Triage out-prioritizes Air Slash, Celesteela with Lightning Rod support resists all Triage-boosted moves except Drain Punch, which is resisted by the rest of the birds. Versus bulkier playstyles, Togekiss is a great stallbreaker, and endless Rain Dish healing keeps the team healthy over long games.

Be sure to give this team a shot on ladder!

* * * * *

And now, a message from Council Member Mengy:

Hope you all have enjoyed the first week of Shared Power! Thank you to all who filled out the Shared Power Survey — I read all of your responses and shared them with the council. Expect a new post in the next few days regarding the state of the metagame!

 

[dumbbirb]

Priority Flinch Team — Now With Secret Anti-Psychic Terrain Tech Elitists DON'T Want You To Know

Everyone and their mother has been testing out Triage teams, so let's take a look at a Gale Wings squad! The game plan is simple: fire off Serene Grace Air Slashes at +1 priority and flinch the opponent to death. What could be more satisfying?


Click here for importable

With Gale Wings and Serene Grace, Air Slash and Hurricane become priority moves with a 60% chance to inflict a secondary effect. Pelipper provides rain for accurate Hurricanes and passive recovery through Heliolisk's Dry Skin, which helps our birds stay at 100% health. Togedemaru gives the team immunity to Electric moves and allows Heliolisk to spam Electrify, and Scarf Serene Grace lets Toge cosplay as Jirachi, flinching with Iron Head and Zing Zap.

Any team whose main strategy involves priority moves has to have a way to deal with Psy Terrain — that's where Steel Roller Celesteela comes in. The bamboo ultra beast is not only one of the best Lele walls, it also carries Steel Roller to remove terrain and spam Air Slash. Between Leech + Protect, Lefties, and rainy Dry Skin, it is remarkably easy to keep Celesteela at full to keep firing off Air Slashes and Rollering away terrain.

The team is definitely a very viable ladder pick. As a Priority team, it matches up well versus HO not carrying Psychic Terrain. Even though Triage out-prioritizes Air Slash, Celesteela with Lightning Rod support resists all Triage-boosted moves except Drain Punch, which is resisted by the rest of the birds. Versus bulkier playstyles, Togekiss is a great stallbreaker, and endless Rain Dish healing keeps the team healthy over long games.

Be sure to give this team a shot on ladder!

* * * * *

And now, a message from Council Member Mengy:

Hope you all have enjoyed the first week of Shared Power! Thank you to all who filled out the Shared Power Survey — I read all of your responses and shared them with the council. Expect a new post in the next few days regarding the state of the metagame!

i was doing gale wings before it was cool :) https://pokepast.es/06019cbc166c7d95 (you can find the og team post on page 27 or 26) aslo thise seams cheap i like it

 

[PokaPK]

Yeah, so Flare Boost + Quick Feet needs a complex ban. I can't be the only one on this train.

 

[zelda333]

Sounds like triage may be considered ban worthy, so I'd like to share this team that I got top 10 on the ladder with. Every mon on this team is basically setting up for Kommo-o sweep. Prankster taunt on Kommo-o will be faster than enemy Toxapex prankster haze, allowing you to beat it while set up. Scrappy allows it to hit ghosts like Dragapault that could otherwise come in to revenge kill it for free. Long reach makes sure that basically everything dies at +6 even if your opponent has a Bewear. While Fini can change psychic terrain, I honestly don't recommend it. If you see an opposing Lele, DO NOT EVER send out Comfey. Rather, just try to win with CM Fini straight up with screen support. This is usually doable if Fini does not get crit. This is not a team that can win the terrain war since it requires setup to win. Anyways, have fun.

Import

Comfey @ Leftovers
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Draining Kiss
- U-turn
- Calm Mind
- Synthesis

Klefki @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Reflect
- Light Screen

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Surf
- Calm Mind
- Taunt

Kommo-o @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Taunt
- Belly Drum

Pangoro @ Leftovers
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Darkest Lariat
- Poison Jab
- Bulk Up

Decidueye @ Leftovers
Ability: Long Reach
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Defog
- Haze
- Synthesis

 

[The_Red_Breloom]

Yeah, Triage really should be banned. There isnt really any good counters to it besides stall, and a metagame that's stall only is a bad one.

Yeah, so Flare Boost + Quick Feet needs a complex ban. I can't be the only one on this train.

Your not the only one, I just think Flare Boost just needs to be banned. Its just a special guts, and if guts is banned why isnt flare boost.

 

[Heavyweapons Mann]

There aren’t as many special attack boosting abilities to stack with Flare Boost. You could stack Guts with HustleGuard, and that isn’t even taking into account the other abilities that are shared.

 

[The_Red_Breloom]

There aren’t as many special attack boosting abilities to stack with Flare Boost. You could stack Guts with HustleGuard, and that isn’t even taking into account the other abilities that are shared.

While that is true, you also have to understand that just those 2 abilities alone are pretty good. and when stack them with grim neigh, beast boost, and psy terrain to counter triage teams, it's a devastating combo.

 

[gigajew2]

https://pokepast.es/2cbfa33925fcdb69

Pretty silly team I came up with as a concept, but it actually came together quite nicely.

Heliolisk has dry skin which makes the team as defensive in rain as the most dedicated stall in regular metagames, as well as having stab volt switch and thunder, weather ball, and a ghost immunity.

Tapu Fini makes this team hold its own against terrain and status abusers, shuts down beast boost shenanigans, and also has a killer draining kiss and hydro pump in addition to great bulk aided by dry skin.

Basculin gives adaptability which pushes the raw power of this team to pretty insane levels, and it itself has an absurdly strong flip turn (351 base power with all boosts), letting it grab kills pretty much for free against anything that isnt immune. aqua jet falls only slightly behind in power.

Scizor gives the team technician, defog, some physical bulk aided by typing and rain, and a strong slow u-turn. bullet punch too.

Pelipper sets rain and manages to be both infuriatingly tough to kill and hard hitting even if the only abilities it has picked up are adaptability and dry skin.

Barbaracle gives tough claws to basculin and scizor, sets rocks, and itself has a damn strong liquidation which with shell smash is a decent win condition

Its a team that has a broken concept, and checks many boxes like having a lot of switching moves, hazard control, weather/ terrain control, priority, and bulk around the board.
The most glaring flaw is the electric weakness, but the most popular electric type move is rising voltage which is shut down by the terrain.
The other problem, if you consider it a problem, is that rain isnt always up. In particular, you do not get dry skin healing at the end of the last turn of rain. Its admittedly weak both in a prediction sense and defensive sense when the rain turns are running low.
Also fr if people just ran one of the 3 abilities that make you immune to water I wouldnt be getting away with this stuff
Still though, its a solid core idea, and there are many variations I’ve made with this team, centered on heliolisk+pelipper. basculin is tradeable for crawdaunt. scizor can be subbed for roserade in grassy terrain teams or mr mime for trick room. tapu fini can be given up for cloyster in a more ballzy offense team. and barbaracle can be given up for bullet seed rillaboom on aforementioned cloyster team, or scale shot dual wingbeat dragonite, or bone rush lightning rod marowak which goes well with trick room, or sturdy shell smash rock blast crustle, or even frosmoth.
I really think there is a lot of potential for this team, since drizzle+dry skin is just so ridiculous imo

 

[digitalson]

Ok its time I make a post about this

I think fluffy+ice scales as well as drizzle+dry skin should be restricted (as in for both pairs you aren't allowed to use both on the same team)

I was expecting the stalemates to end once regenerator was banned but as it turns out that wasn't the case, as I have witnessed stalemates against both of these combinations

fluffy+ice scales (and typically +flash fire as well) allow for teams to take half damage from most attacks, which causes a lot of frailer mons to survive hits and bulky mons to be pretty hard to kill, now im aware what a hyper offense team looks like in SP which is why im only suggesting banning both used on the same team rather than both of them entirely

Drizzle+dry skin (+rain dish+hydration) allow for teams to have up to 25% passive regen per turn, stacking dry skin, rain dish, and lefties regen (granted not every mon runs lefties), when coupled with hydration rest as well as the other benifits of rain (including mitigating the downside of fluffy with no need for flash fire), rain stall has shown to be a pretty powerful force in SP

the worst part out of all of this, you can run fluffy+ice scales alongside rain stall no problem

 

[Dat way?]

scarf and also are you using the team i named ooof? (if so i made a team other peaple use wich is a first wich makes me feel like i did something)

I lost to your team on the ladder but I was thinking how scary it would be with Staraptor.

 

[Skankovich]

Ok its time I make a post about this

I think fluffy+ice scales as well as drizzle+dry skin should be restricted (as in for both pairs you aren't allowed to use both on the same team)

I was expecting the stalemates to end once regenerator was banned but as it turns out that wasn't the case, as I have witnessed stalemates against both of these combinations

fluffy+ice scales (and typically +flash fire as well) allow for teams to take half damage from most attacks, which causes a lot of frailer mons to survive hits and bulky mons to be pretty hard to kill, now im aware what a hyper offense team looks like in SP which is why im only suggesting banning both used on the same team rather than both of them entirely

Drizzle+dry skin (+rain dish+hydration) allow for teams to have up to 25% passive regen per turn, stacking dry skin, rain dish, and lefties regen (granted not every mon runs lefties), when coupled with hydration rest as well as the other benifits of rain (including mitigating the downside of fluffy with no need for flash fire), rain stall has shown to be a pretty powerful force in SP

the worst part out of all of this, you can run fluffy+ice scales alongside rain stall no problem

We really need to stop going on this mission to obliterate any form of defensive counterplay present in this meta. This is a meta where half the teams are stacking several 1.5x and 1.3x boosting abilities on one pokemon. It will become a HO rock paper scissor crapshoot without the presence of pokemon who can eat some of these hits.

Fluffy is easy to bypass/counteract with all of non-contact moves (hello Skill Link, probably the most common archetype in the meta), Decidueye or via stacking boosting abilities as 3/4 of the teams you face do; an Adaptability + Hustle boost alone counteracts the boost Fluffy gives. Ice Scales is trickier but similarly stacking boosting abilities helps and also set up moves help considerably with no Unaware around. Rain mechanics really just give some regen, status immunity and access to recovery for mons that don't get it, which I actually think is healthy to open up the pool of mons that are usable defensively. It still needs support from other abilities so that it can actually eat the monstrously heavy hitters in this meta.

And fwiw, Rain teams aren't counteracting the Fluffy downside because you're also running Dry Skin, so fire attacks are still doing slightly more damage to everyone than usual through the rain.

 

[Geyro]

Imo the only problem is the ban of queenly majesty..
Now Triage team are too powerfull and remove a psychic terrain is too easy for a good Triage with other terrain
Drizzle dry skin
Fluffy ice scale
That's not a problem

 

[The_Red_Breloom]

Imo the only problem is the ban of queenly majesty..
Now Triage team are too powerfull and remove a psychic terrain is too easy for a good Triage with other terrain
Drizzle dry skin
Fluffy ice scale
That's not a problem

For the Drizzle + Dry Skin, your right that isn't that big of a problem. However when you also add hydration, fluffy, and ice scales, it becomes stupidly broken. the problem isn't Drizzle + Dry Skin, but its actually Drizzle + Hydration + Dry Skin.

 

[Peababy]

hi we should ban flare boost


Flare Boost + Quick Feet is, without a doubt, one of the strongest combos available as of right now. Drifblim, its only donor, sports three resistances to very common types (Normal, Fighting, Ground), so it's always at least somewhat useful and not that hard to switch in. Jolteon, the main Quick Feet donor, has decent synergy with Drifblim because Jolteon decently takes the Electric attacks Drifblim cannot, and Drifblim is able to cover Jolteon's Ground weakness.


Most Flare Feet teams, as I'll refer to them from now on, run the same 3-4 mon core of Jolteon, Drifblim, Spectrier and Tapu Lele. With Psychic Surge, priority is no longer an issue, and with Quick Feet, you're basically running Choice Scarf that deals 6% damage every turn, but lets you switch moves. Grim Neigh lets you easily snowball once you secure a KO, and the game is pretty much over once your opponent gets two Grim Neigh boosts.


The last two slots are the only real variation this type of team has, with choices such as Adaptability, No Guard, Transistor, Pixilate, Refrigerate, Beast Boost and Sheer Force on the table. All of them have their own strengths, giving your team stronger STABs, better coverage, or fancy tech like Zap Cannon to really make sure no one's outspeeding you.

"What about this Pokémon? What about this ability?"
Fine, let's go over some of them.


Without a damaging Rock-type move, Mudsdale is completely walled by Drifblim. Most sets are basically Rocks, Toxic, EQ and Body Press, and with a Flame Orb making Drifblim immune to other status, you need to switch out. Stamina won't be very useful against 4-5 Special attackers, so it doesn't get to do anything.


Your only chance of winning, and even then, it's getting outsped even after 2~3 QDs because of Quick Feet. Jolteon and Spectrier easily wear it down, and any physical attackers on their team can secure the KO if you cannot KO them back. Ice Scales is the only ability when it comes to increasing SpDef, but having to watch out for so many types (Fairy, Electric, Psychic, Ghost, Dark and Fighting, to name the main ones) and set-up sweepers (Spectrier's Nasty Plot, Lele's Calm Mind), you won't have much on the attacking side.


Another very common core, Rain Dish teams suffer against all the hard-hitting fast mons present in Flare Feet teams. It's not particularly hard to start snowballing on something (especially Pelipper), and then it's pretty much over. Even with constant recovery on your side (until Rain runs out anyway), the damage output on their team is too strong.


Regenerator is banned, but even if it weren't, you can't just keep switching around. You need to deal damage in order to win. Burn damage is so small, you'd need at least 17 turns per Pokémon for them to faint from burn damage. That is 102 turns. And besides, if Regenerator was not banned, there wouldn't be anything stopping Flare Feet teams from incorporating Regenerator into their teams themselves.


Corrosion + Merciless (or just Toxic Spikes lol) is maybe the only counterplay to Flare Boost (Quick Feet is still active), but Merciless is not very good against a lot of things. Even if they lose Flare Boost, you still need to outspeed Spectrier, Tapu Lele and Jolteon, and also knock them out. It's not a guaranteed win, and if they have a defogger (usually Drifblim) and your Toxic Spikes setter is gone, then your chances of winning are pretty much gone.


Misty Surge just means it's Terrain Wars. Once again, you need to deal damage in order to win, and if their Flame Orbs won't activate, then you won't be winning that match in 102 turns. Weezing is easily destroyed by Lele and Fini doesn't stand a chance against Jolteon.

tl;dr: The main core of Jolteon + Drifblim + Tapu Lele + Spectrier is overwhelming and overcentralizing, and it wouldn't be so strong if Flare Boost wasn't present. The extra flexibility between the last two slots also makes this type of team very hard to have a reliable response to, and most would-be checks and counters are brushed off easily by that exact core.

tl;dr for the tl;dr: this is dumb if you disagree youre dumb too lol

EDIT: dont any of you dare ask for calcs. its 1:30 right now and i wanna sleep. bye xx

 

[Raikaru]

hi we should ban flare boost


Flare Boost + Quick Feet is, without a doubt, one of the strongest combos available as of right now. Drifblim, its only donor, sports three resistances to very common types (Normal, Fighting, Ground), so it's always at least somewhat useful and not that hard to switch in. Jolteon, the main Quick Feet donor, has decent synergy with Drifblim because Jolteon decently takes the Electric attacks Drifblim cannot, and Drifblim is able to cover Jolteon's Ground weakness.


Most Flare Feet teams, as I'll refer to them from now on, run the same 3-4 mon core of Jolteon, Drifblim, Spectrier and Tapu Lele. With Psychic Surge, priority is no longer an issue, and with Quick Feet, you're basically running Choice Scarf that deals 6% damage every turn, but lets you switch moves. Grim Neigh lets you easily snowball once you secure a KO, and the game is pretty much over once your opponent gets two Grim Neigh boosts.


The last two slots are the only real variation this type of team has, with choices such as Adaptability, No Guard, Transistor, Pixilate, Refrigerate, Beast Boost and Sheer Force on the table. All of them have their own strengths, giving your team stronger STABs, better coverage, or fancy tech like Zap Cannon to really make sure no one's outspeeding you.

"What about this Pokémon? What about this ability?"
Fine, let's go over some of them.


Without a damaging Rock-type move, Mudsdale is completely walled by Drifblim. Most sets are basically Rocks, Toxic, EQ and Body Press, and with a Flame Orb making Drifblim immune to other status, you need to switch out. Stamina won't be very useful against 4-5 Special attackers, so it doesn't get to do anything.


Your only chance of winning, and even then, it's getting outsped even after 2~3 QDs because of Quick Feet. Jolteon and Spectrier easily wear it down, and any physical attackers on their team can secure the KO if you cannot KO them back. Ice Scales is the only ability when it comes to increasing SpDef, but having to watch out for so many types (Fairy, Electric, Psychic, Ghost, Dark and Fighting, to name the main ones) and set-up sweepers (Spectrier's Nasty Plot, Lele's Calm Mind), you won't have much on the attacking side.


Another very common core, Rain Dish teams suffer against all the hard-hitting fast mons present in Flare Feet teams. It's not particularly hard to start snowballing on something (especially Pelipper), and then it's pretty much over. Even with constant recovery on your side (until Rain runs out anyway), the damage output on their team is too strong.


Regenerator is banned, but even if it weren't, you can't just keep switching around. You need to deal damage in order to win. Burn damage is so small, you'd need at least 17 turns per Pokémon for them to faint from burn damage. That is 102 turns. And besides, if Regenerator was not banned, there wouldn't be anything stopping Flare Feet teams from incorporating Regenerator into their teams themselves.


Corrosion + Merciless (or just Toxic Spikes lol) is maybe the only counterplay to Flare Boost (Quick Feet is still active), but Merciless is not very good against a lot of things. Even if they lose Flare Boost, you still need to outspeed Spectrier, Tapu Lele and Jolteon, and also knock them out. It's not a guaranteed win, and if they have a defogger (usually Drifblim) and your Toxic Spikes setter is gone, then your chances of winning are pretty much gone.


Misty Surge just means it's Terrain Wars. Once again, you need to deal damage in order to win, and if their Flame Orbs won't activate, then you won't be winning that match in 102 turns. Weezing is easily destroyed by Lele and Fini doesn't stand a chance against Jolteon.

tl;dr: The main core of Jolteon + Drifblim + Tapu Lele + Spectrier is overwhelming and overcentralizing, and it wouldn't be so strong if Flare Boost wasn't present. The extra flexibility between the last two slots also makes this type of team very hard to have a reliable response to, and most would-be checks and counters are brushed off easily by that exact core.

tl;dr for the tl;dr: this is dumb if you disagree youre dumb too lol

EDIT: dont any of you dare ask for calcs. its 1:30 right now and i wanna sleep. bye xx

Why not just ban Flare Boost + Quick Feet then?

Also Blissey literally can beat almost any member of that team 1v1. Your best chance is Tapu Lele and that's a 3 hit KO with Flare Boost boosted Psychic Terrain boosted Psyshock. If Blissey has stamina on that team you're literally not killing it

 

[Mitchellenwebb]

Also Blissey literally can beat almost any member of that team 1v1. Your best chance is Tapu Lele and that's a 3 hit KO with Flare Boost boosted Psychic Terrain boosted Psyshock.

252 SpA Flare Boost Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey in Psychic Terrain: 462-544 (64.7 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Without Stamina, Blissey just gets 2HKOed. Even with Chansey, it's a roll heavily in Lele's favour:

252 SpA Flare Boost Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Psychic Terrain: 339-399 (48.1 - 56.6%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO

Or just run Modest and guarantee this 2HKO as well.

EDIT: Or keep Lele Timid, drop Psychic for Calm Mind, and 2HKO even Chansey with Stamina with a +2 Psyshock. Eh, nvm, you'll start to run out of Psychic Terrain turns.

EDIT EDIT: Oooh, looks like Adaptability + Flare Boost in Psychic Terrain is a guaranteed 2HKO on Stamina Chansey unless it clicks Soft-Boiled Turn 1. So, just give Lele Calm Mind to outplay on Turn 1.

 

[Peababy]

Why not just ban Flare Boost + Quick Feet then?

Also Blissey literally can beat almost any member of that team 1v1. Your best chance is Tapu Lele and that's a 3 hit KO with Flare Boost boosted Psychic Terrain boosted Psyshock. If Blissey has stamina on that team you're literally not killing it

Losing Quick Feet would make these teams slightly more manageable, but the problem still is Flare Boost. And besides, Beast Boost is a decent replacement that allows bulkier and slower mons to shine since they're not getting their bad Speed increased and you can run a better ability that benefits them.

Also, Blissey does nothing against Drifblim. Seismic Toss won't work on a Ghost-type and it's already burned so Toxic is useless. You'd need to run Ice Beam or Thunderbolt for it, but can you sacrifice those moveslots?

 

[Mitchellenwebb]

Also, Blissey does nothing against Drifblim. Seismic Toss won't work on a Ghost-type and it's already burned so Toxic is useless. You'd need to run Ice Beam or Thunderbolt for it, but can you sacrifice those moveslots?

Shadow Ball, which Blisseys run nowadays anyway to 1v1 Spectrier.

 

[dumbbirb]

hi we should ban flare boost


Flare Boost + Quick Feet is, without a doubt, one of the strongest combos available as of right now. Drifblim, its only donor, sports three resistances to very common types (Normal, Fighting, Ground), so it's always at least somewhat useful and not that hard to switch in. Jolteon, the main Quick Feet donor, has decent synergy with Drifblim because Jolteon decently takes the Electric attacks Drifblim cannot, and Drifblim is able to cover Jolteon's Ground weakness.


Most Flare Feet teams, as I'll refer to them from now on, run the same 3-4 mon core of Jolteon, Drifblim, Spectrier and Tapu Lele. With Psychic Surge, priority is no longer an issue, and with Quick Feet, you're basically running Choice Scarf that deals 6% damage every turn, but lets you switch moves. Grim Neigh lets you easily snowball once you secure a KO, and the game is pretty much over once your opponent gets two Grim Neigh boosts.


The last two slots are the only real variation this type of team has, with choices such as Adaptability, No Guard, Transistor, Pixilate, Refrigerate, Beast Boost and Sheer Force on the table. All of them have their own strengths, giving your team stronger STABs, better coverage, or fancy tech like Zap Cannon to really make sure no one's outspeeding you.

"What about this Pokémon? What about this ability?"
Fine, let's go over some of them.


Without a damaging Rock-type move, Mudsdale is completely walled by Drifblim. Most sets are basically Rocks, Toxic, EQ and Body Press, and with a Flame Orb making Drifblim immune to other status, you need to switch out. Stamina won't be very useful against 4-5 Special attackers, so it doesn't get to do anything.


Your only chance of winning, and even then, it's getting outsped even after 2~3 QDs because of Quick Feet. Jolteon and Spectrier easily wear it down, and any physical attackers on their team can secure the KO if you cannot KO them back. Ice Scales is the only ability when it comes to increasing SpDef, but having to watch out for so many types (Fairy, Electric, Psychic, Ghost, Dark and Fighting, to name the main ones) and set-up sweepers (Spectrier's Nasty Plot, Lele's Calm Mind), you won't have much on the attacking side.


Another very common core, Rain Dish teams suffer against all the hard-hitting fast mons present in Flare Feet teams. It's not particularly hard to start snowballing on something (especially Pelipper), and then it's pretty much over. Even with constant recovery on your side (until Rain runs out anyway), the damage output on their team is too strong.


Regenerator is banned, but even if it weren't, you can't just keep switching around. You need to deal damage in order to win. Burn damage is so small, you'd need at least 17 turns per Pokémon for them to faint from burn damage. That is 102 turns. And besides, if Regenerator was not banned, there wouldn't be anything stopping Flare Feet teams from incorporating Regenerator into their teams themselves.


Corrosion + Merciless (or just Toxic Spikes lol) is maybe the only counterplay to Flare Boost (Quick Feet is still active), but Merciless is not very good against a lot of things. Even if they lose Flare Boost, you still need to outspeed Spectrier, Tapu Lele and Jolteon, and also knock them out. It's not a guaranteed win, and if they have a defogger (usually Drifblim) and your Toxic Spikes setter is gone, then your chances of winning are pretty much gone.


Misty Surge just means it's Terrain Wars. Once again, you need to deal damage in order to win, and if their Flame Orbs won't activate, then you won't be winning that match in 102 turns. Weezing is easily destroyed by Lele and Fini doesn't stand a chance against Jolteon.

tl;dr: The main core of Jolteon + Drifblim + Tapu Lele + Spectrier is overwhelming and overcentralizing, and it wouldn't be so strong if Flare Boost wasn't present. The extra flexibility between the last two slots also makes this type of team very hard to have a reliable response to, and most would-be checks and counters are brushed off easily by that exact core.

tl;dr for the tl;dr: this is dumb if you disagree youre dumb too lol

EDIT: dont any of you dare ask for calcs. its 1:30 right now and i wanna sleep. bye xx

I have seen lots of marvel scale with fluffy and ice scales to make up for burns defense drop, it also seams to have replaced triage teams. (quick feet on its own infinity more manageable but flare boost still needs to be band cuz if guts is band so sold flare boost)

 

[Poké Legend]

Shadow Ball, which Blisseys run nowadays anyway to 1v1 Spectrier.

Don't know why you are trying. They're just going to make it seem broken no matter what.

Having a frosmoth on your team and something specially defensive (a stat investment rarely ran in this meta) practically shuts them down. Volt absorb cripples them.

Frosmoth is the reason that flare boost is allowed to begin with. Odds are they faced the same people on the ladder and got fustrated and do wish to adapt their team due to special attackers being relavent, there aren't that many people playing this other meta and flare boost is not widespread. Of course that's just an assumption, could be spot on, could not be.

Raindish has many forms and can easily beat/out recover them depending on what abilities you bring. If they have hydration then they have rest which is a 100% recovery move. So if they outdamage that then consider getting something that is specially invested. Otherwise the complaint is that regenerator should be unbanned. They're outsped by swift swim/chlorphyll as well.

As the other person said, get chansey or blissey and 2 pokemon will wall their whole team. Special attacker based teams are weak sauce without contrary....I don't see why stamina or mudsdale would be relevent to the topic.

Terrain wars are always a thing if the opponent has a terrain of their own.

 

[bp scrub]

252 SpA Flare Boost Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey in Psychic Terrain: 462-544 (64.7 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Without Stamina, Blissey just gets 2HKOed. Even with Chansey, it's a roll heavily in Lele's favour:

252 SpA Flare Boost Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Psychic Terrain: 339-399 (48.1 - 56.6%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO

except like realistically every single team that has Blissey/Chansey also has ice scales so cut all those numbers in half and its not looking so good for Lele anymore

There's also like nothing Drifblim or Spectrier can even do to Blissey

+6 252 SpA Sheer Force Flare Boost Spectrier Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ice Scales Blissey: 283-334 (39.6 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+6 252 SpA Sheer Force Flare Boost Spectrier Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ice Scales Eviolite Chansey: 235-277 (32.9 - 38.7%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO

All Blissey has to do is spam recovery against Spectrier or Drifblim and they'll eventually die from burn. Blissey doesn't even need Shadow Ball to beat them, unless Spectrier also has Taunt, but I've found it really really hard to slot that in- Shadow Ball + Protect are practically mandatory, you need Dark Pulse, and then if you run Taunt in the last slot, you don't have Nasty Plot which makes it hard/impossible to break through other bulky mons on Ice Scales teams.

 

[Mitchellenwebb]

except like realistically every single team that has Blissey/Chansey also has ice scales so cut all those numbers in half and its not looking so good for Lele anymore

Sure, but the point I was making was that "just run Blissey" is misleading. You are pretty much forced to run Ice Scales or you get mowed down by Tapu Lele's Psyshocks.

EDIT: I would like to point out that there is no reason you can't run a Physical attacker in one slot of your Flare Feet team, alongside Adaptability Porygon-Z. Something like:
(Sheer Force)

 

[Pigeons]

I don't have much to contribute on the Flare Boost + Quick Feet debate but overall I haven't found such teams especially overbearing. Defensively speaking Ice Scales and Blissey / Chansey are both fairly effective (though not foolproof) at limiting such teams, while the common Flare Boost comps I've seen don't fare well against Sturdy, Multiscale, or GrassSpam offense.

I didn't come here to post about Flare Boost though, instead I'd like to share the stall team I used to get to #1 on ladder in the post-Regenerator metagame.

Click here for team importable!

This team aims to take advantage of the fact that common offensive team compositions are extremely weak to Toxic Spikes, and relies on Pressure stalling and solid defensive synergy to take on balance builds. Even without Regenerator, Toxapex is a very solid pick both as a Toxic Spikes setter and as a defensive wall thanks to Haze. Merciless doesn't always come into play but can be quite useful I opted for an unconventional Corviknight set here that abandons utility in favour of maximizing its stalling potential with Toxic Spikes. This allows the team counterplay against threats that would otherwise sweep once they have been poisoned, which effectively negates teams that rely purely on offensive ability stacking to win. Mudsdale was mainly chosen to shut down most Skill Link builds, though I've found that Stamina also enhances the team's flexibility when it comes to pivoting on physical attackers. Frosmoth is pretty obligatory on stall and I don't think it needs explanation.

Kommo-o might seem like an odd choice over the more typical Bewear, but its unique defensive attributes make it worthwhile even if its ability is not as potent. Kommo-o is an extremely sturdy check to the everpresent Crawdaunt, as well as a solid answer to GrassSpam and Heatran. Iron Defense + Body Press allows Kommo-o to act as a potent wincon against both bulky and offensive teams, I've been thrilled with its performance and encourage other people to try it out as well. Sableye is the glue holding the whole team together, Prankster is essential for all of the defensive components to function and it provides a great deal of utility itself. Knock Off is very important for a team that relies on Toxic Spikes, Will-O-Wisp serves as a panic button against poison-immune physical attackers like Kartana, and Taunt lets it force incremental progress against opposing balance teams.

The biggest threat to this team is Kartana without a doubt, as it can't be poisoned and has the damage output needed to muscle past Toxapex when paired with multiple boosting abilities. Kommo-o is pretty reliable against Scarf or Band sets, Swords Dance sets are more challenging but Kommo-o can often force a trade and Sableye can burn it if all else fails. Overall this team has been extremely consistent and has counterplay vs pretty much everything the meta can throw at it, I'm going to start tinkering with other types of stall builds but I think this structure will remain the standard in terms of consistency. Even if you don't normally like using stall I encourage you to give this team a try!

 

[blackster0915]

I don't have much to contribute on the Flare Boost + Quick Feet debate but overall I haven't found such teams especially overbearing. Defensively speaking Ice Scales and Blissey / Chansey are both fairly effective (though not foolproof) at limiting such teams, while the common Flare Boost comps I've seen don't fare well against Sturdy, Multiscale, or GrassSpam offense.

I didn't come here to post about Flare Boost though, instead I'd like to share the stall team I used to get to #1 on ladder in the post-Regenerator metagame.

Click here for team importable!

This team aims to take advantage of the fact that common offensive team compositions are extremely weak to Toxic Spikes, and relies on Pressure stalling and solid defensive synergy to take on balance builds. Even without Regenerator, Toxapex is a very solid pick both as a Toxic Spikes setter and as a defensive wall thanks to Haze. Merciless doesn't always come into play but can be quite useful I opted for an unconventional Corviknight set here that abandons utility in favour of maximizing its stalling potential with Toxic Spikes. This allows the team counterplay against threats that would otherwise sweep once they have been poisoned, which effectively negates teams that rely purely on offensive ability stacking to win. Mudsdale was mainly chosen to shut down most Skill Link builds, though I've found that Stamina also enhances the team's flexibility when it comes to pivoting on physical attackers. Frosmoth is pretty obligatory on stall and I don't think it needs explanation.

Kommo-o might seem like an odd choice over the more typical Bewear, but its unique defensive attributes make it worthwhile even if its ability is not as potent. Kommo-o is an extremely sturdy check to the everpresent Crawdaunt, as well as a solid answer to GrassSpam and Heatran. Iron Defense + Body Press allows Kommo-o to act as a potent wincon against both bulky and offensive teams, I've been thrilled with its performance and encourage other people to try it out as well. Sableye is the glue holding the whole team together, Prankster is essential for all of the defensive components to function and it provides a great deal of utility itself. Knock Off is very important for a team that relies on Toxic Spikes, Will-O-Wisp serves as a panic button against poison-immune physical attackers like Kartana, and Taunt lets it force incremental progress against opposing balance teams.

The biggest threat to this team is Kartana without a doubt, as it can't be poisoned and has the damage output needed to muscle past Toxapex when paired with multiple boosting abilities. Kommo-o is pretty reliable against Scarf or Band sets, Swords Dance sets are more challenging but Kommo-o can often force a trade and Sableye can burn it if all else fails. Overall this team has been extremely consistent and has counterplay vs pretty much everything the meta can throw at it, I'm going to start tinkering with other types of stall builds but I think this structure will remain the standard in terms of consistency. Even if you don't normally like using stall I encourage you to give this team a try!

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1261280262-hx7l56r07e3vab4spwl8twsjkaasevmpw

Disgusting team

 

[drfrankenbaum]

I don't have much to contribute on the Flare Boost + Quick Feet debate but overall I haven't found such teams especially overbearing. Defensively speaking Ice Scales and Blissey / Chansey are both fairly effective (though not foolproof) at limiting such teams, while the common Flare Boost comps I've seen don't fare well against Sturdy, Multiscale, or GrassSpam offense.

I didn't come here to post about Flare Boost though, instead I'd like to share the stall team I used to get to #1 on ladder in the post-Regenerator metagame.

Click here for team importable!

This team aims to take advantage of the fact that common offensive team compositions are extremely weak to Toxic Spikes, and relies on Pressure stalling and solid defensive synergy to take on balance builds. Even without Regenerator, Toxapex is a very solid pick both as a Toxic Spikes setter and as a defensive wall thanks to Haze. Merciless doesn't always come into play but can be quite useful I opted for an unconventional Corviknight set here that abandons utility in favour of maximizing its stalling potential with Toxic Spikes. This allows the team counterplay against threats that would otherwise sweep once they have been poisoned, which effectively negates teams that rely purely on offensive ability stacking to win. Mudsdale was mainly chosen to shut down most Skill Link builds, though I've found that Stamina also enhances the team's flexibility when it comes to pivoting on physical attackers. Frosmoth is pretty obligatory on stall and I don't think it needs explanation.

Kommo-o might seem like an odd choice over the more typical Bewear, but its unique defensive attributes make it worthwhile even if its ability is not as potent. Kommo-o is an extremely sturdy check to the everpresent Crawdaunt, as well as a solid answer to GrassSpam and Heatran. Iron Defense + Body Press allows Kommo-o to act as a potent wincon against both bulky and offensive teams, I've been thrilled with its performance and encourage other people to try it out as well. Sableye is the glue holding the whole team together, Prankster is essential for all of the defensive components to function and it provides a great deal of utility itself. Knock Off is very important for a team that relies on Toxic Spikes, Will-O-Wisp serves as a panic button against poison-immune physical attackers like Kartana, and Taunt lets it force incremental progress against opposing balance teams.

The biggest threat to this team is Kartana without a doubt, as it can't be poisoned and has the damage output needed to muscle past Toxapex when paired with multiple boosting abilities. Kommo-o is pretty reliable against Scarf or Band sets, Swords Dance sets are more challenging but Kommo-o can often force a trade and Sableye can burn it if all else fails. Overall this team has been extremely consistent and has counterplay vs pretty much everything the meta can throw at it, I'm going to start tinkering with other types of stall builds but I think this structure will remain the standard in terms of consistency. Even if you don't normally like using stall I encourage you to give this team a try!

why soundproof over bulletproof?