SP Shared Power - Survey at post 418

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

maushold is v strong right? Still playable? Like pads witg tech sharpness adap nO guard mold breaker and you gET a late/mid game sweeper

 

[Billybobman]

maushold is v strong right? Still playable? Like pads witg tech sharpness adap nO guard mold breaker and you gET a late/mid game sweeper

Mold Breaker is banned, but the viability ranking has Maushold at "high" so I'd imagine it's still good. Not sure if it wants super luck or merciless or something to help break through Stamina.

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

We have to fit the mold, Then. Yeah super luck is a strong option

 

[quagsirefan888]

I think Guard Dog is placed too low on the VR, Intimidate seems really good and actively punishing the use of the ability in addition to preventing setup sweepers from getting phazed is really helpful.

 

[KaenSoul]

Tiering Survey, please only answer it if you have played the tier recently!
https://forms.gle/ZX2u5KGbtTSqrcoR6

It will be open until Sunday.

 

[Darek]

Played a good amount today with this team to good success and have a few thoughts:


One of Drought/Protosynthesis needs to go. In a metagame where pretty much every other Speed-boosting ability is banned it makes little sense that Proto Speed is still abusable since it basically gives you a free +1 Speed Boost and can be accomplished using exceptionally powerful mons. Counterplay also feels pretty limited; I've played games against Webs where Protosynthesis procs before Webs, still raising Speed, before Sticky Web comes into effect, rendering it mostly ineffective. Priority can easily be stopped as well by slapping Indeedee onto a team to which there isn't much stopping a Proto Speed mon with a trillion damage multipliers from just mowing down the opponent.

I don't think banning specific mons solves this issue either; you can see on this team that Groudon basically does nothing besides set hazards, and even if Flutter Mane/Walking Wake were to go, every Protosynthesis user is strong enough where a team isn't heavily burdened by running one.

Conversely I find threats like Zacian and Basculegion to be pretty balanced. In a metagame where there's already a million and a half ways to stack damage multipliers, I don't find Intrepid Sword, or Adaptability + Last Respects to be anything outlandish, despite being very strong.

I do think Sturdy needs to go though. Frankly there's basically no counterplay to Sturdy + Bootspam for offensive teams unless you just play much better than the opponent and manage to stay ahead in sacks.

 

[Catzzadilla]

Woohoo! Shared Power is back! I've waited all year for this!

Here's a team I put together this summer (pre-DLC) with synergy that I love so much! It could certainly be optimized, but at least this is a start!


It combines Moxie, Skill Link, Compoundeyes, Adaptability, Sharpness and Technician, and the users have moves that take those abilities into account. I recommend leading with Cloyster, but Maushold and Vivillon also work. I haven't checked how DLC1 could optimize this, but I do know is supposed to be coming back in DLC2 so at least that'll be flexibility for Skill Link. Have fun! :)

 

[Cuddly]

Numel

I assume Numel is banned because of Simple, but why ban it instead of Simple? You got all 3 priority blocking abilities banned but not the single users of them like Bruxish. Also same story with Slowbro-G and Quick Draw.

To avoid double posting:
Here is a bit of a Meme pair

Espathra @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Opportunist
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- U-turn
- Roost
- Dazzling Gleam
- Lumina Crash


Tauros-Paldea-Blaze (M) @ Mirror Herb
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swagger
- Flame Charge
- Close Combat
- Raging Bull

Espathra is the only Pokemon with Opportunist, but sadly does not get swagger, which is a bit ironic considering what its based on. Thankfully because of this meta any Pokemon can have Opportunist. This has actually big implications as if you send Espathra out first, your opponent will always be at risk setting up. Dragonite dragon dancing will simply be matched by what ever you have on the field. In a way it's similar presence to Ditto normally does.
But in addition, if you use Mirror Herb, the boost is doubled. So you get +2 Atk and +2 Speed if the opponent dragon dances. With this set, you use Swagger on the opponent to ideally get 2 Sword Dance boosts in 1 turn, while also confusing the target as well. This is 1 time only, but even if you do need to abort the mission, you still have Opprotunist to endlessly boost up with Swagger.

 

[CvdK]

Am I crazy or does galvanise straight up not work? none of my Pokemon's normal moves turn electric.

 

[KaenSoul]

Am I crazy or does galvanise straight up not work? none of my Pokemon's normal moves turn electric.

Did you send out Golem before trying to use a normal move? Do you have a replay of it not working?

 

[KaenSoul]

We will share the results of the whole survey this sunday after is closed, but because of the huge support for action against a few factors we decided to act on them now so the discussion can focus on other things. Mainly, would like to know more what people think the best action against sun will be. But either way:

Sturdy and Zacian are now banned!
(or will be after the next PS update)

 

[Iynhe]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-1982056096
During this battle (turn 7) rapid spin didn't spun away SR from my side.
I had no problems in the past with this same team, so I'm confused. Sheer Force should not care about Spin. Same for the fact that I was already at +6, on the wiki it says nothing. And apparently my opponent didn't have covert cloak.

------

Other than that, Steam Engine is the funniest ability in the meta. Try it.

 

[ponchlake]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-1982056096
During this battle (turn 7) rapid spin didn't spun away SR from my side.
I had no problems in the past with this same team, so I'm confused. Sheer Force should not care about Spin. Same for the fact that I was already at +6, on the wiki it says nothing. And apparently my opponent didn't have covert cloak.

------

Other than that, Steam Engine is the funniest ability in the meta. Try it.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-1982117012-u0rwkqcj91o2leryq9afqd4cg7gpim4pw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9almostanyability-1982119345-10fqi16om157itip55zvff8260fqhxnpw

I just tested it out with Kaen, and Sheer Force just blocks Rapid Spin it looks like. We tested in AAA and SP and had the same results

 

[Railroader17]

Why are these two allowed to co-exist in this Meta?

Or more specifically, why are Fluffy and Flash Fire allowed to co-exist!?!

Sure Fluffy only works on moves that make contact, but it still does far too good a job of stifling offensive teams in conjunction with Ice Scales. Sure it has a severe draw back in comparison to Fur Coat in that it's weal to fire.... until Heatran / Chandalure / Arcanine come in and grant Flash Fire, thus rendering that draw back invalid. So you essentially just have Fur Coat again which was banned for a reason, just at the cost of an easily splashable ability that you were probably going to put on your team anyways (especially to make the highly probable Wo-Chien on your team even less risky to use). Oh and don't forget Levitate to render Earthquake completely useless so now offensive counter play is extremely limited outside of either swapping to a special attacker (for Frosmoth & Ting-Lu to invalidate) or having to rely on Crit spam to have a chance.

At least special attackers have Chi-Yu to help them fight against the Frosmoth & Ting-Lu combo, but physical attackers don't have that (at least not yet, assuming enough of the playerbase wants Chien-Pao back).

So if we have to choose between Fluffy and Flash Fire, ban Fluffy, Flash Fire at least has other defensive utilities outside of stonewalling a majority of physical attacks. Fluffy just constrains teambuilding.

 

[ponchlake]

Or more specifically, why are Fluffy and Flash Fire allowed to co-exist!?!

Fluffy is still legal because there are a lot offensive counterplay to it physically speaking. Also, I don't think I've seen Fluffy used in tandem with Flash Fire all that much, but someone is welcome to correct me on its viability or popularity this ladder cycle.

The obvious answer is using non-contact moves like Stone Edge (No Guard teams), Last Respects, or Glacial Lance among others. Aside from that Long Reach from Decidueye and Punching Glove exist, both of which are viable and good on physical spam teams. Multi-hit teams also shred Fluffy cores due to most of their attacks not making contact (exceptions include Maushold). Stamina does heavily check those types of teams, but they also happen to lose to high-crit variants of multi-hit teams. Other than that it's possible to simply just muscle pass Fluffy cores by stacking powerful offensive abilities like Adaptability, Supreme Overlord, and Guts among others like you see on Pixilate or priority spam teams.

 

[Yveltal for PU]

Why are these two allowed to co-exist in this Meta?

Or more specifically, why are Fluffy and Flash Fire allowed to co-exist!?!

Sure Fluffy only works on moves that make contact, but it still does far too good a job of stifling offensive teams in conjunction with Ice Scales. Sure it has a severe draw back in comparison to Fur Coat in that it's weal to fire.... until Heatran / Chandalure / Arcanine come in and grant Flash Fire, thus rendering that draw back invalid. So you essentially just have Fur Coat again which was banned for a reason, just at the cost of an easily splashable ability that you were probably going to put on your team anyways (especially to make the highly probable Wo-Chien on your team even less risky to use). Oh and don't forget Levitate to render Earthquake completely useless so now offensive counter play is extremely limited outside of either swapping to a special attacker (for Frosmoth & Ting-Lu to invalidate) or having to rely on Crit spam to have a chance.

At least special attackers have Chi-Yu to help them fight against the Frosmoth & Ting-Lu combo, but physical attackers don't have that (at least not yet, assuming enough of the playerbase wants Chien-Pao back).

So if we have to choose between Fluffy and Flash Fire, ban Fluffy, Flash Fire at least has other defensive utilities outside of stonewalling a majority of physical attacks. Fluffy just constrains teambuilding.

Contact only (so moves like Ivy Cudgel, EQ, Stone Edge, Spirit Shackle, Last Respects, Icicle Spear, Rock Blast, etc. simply do not the care) means it can be countered by Punching Gloves and Long Reach, and imo it's healthy to incentivize some physically offensive teams to not use 100% boosting abilities.
Almost forcing a flash fire/wbb slot is also pretty huge whereas Fur Coat does not force you to use flash fire. That's a whole 6th of your team ensuring you dont instalose if your opponent carries 1 move type, which greatly lowers what you could do otherwise. If not for FF/WBB, this could be other abilities a defensive team could use but maybe doesn't have a lot of space for like Pressure or Oblivious.
Removing Fluffy would also, imo, remove defensive teams.

 

[The Great Kiwibeast]

Am I crazy or does galvanise straight up not work? none of my Pokemon's normal moves turn electric.

Air lock doesn’t work either

 

[CookieGlob]

no brain mag team i cooked up at 3 am

-----

main core is stamina + . this thing is so fake i love it lmao. did u know that stamina activates on any attacking move????

im really not good at this game but someone better than me can probably pilot this team or build off this core and win. this is my take on it

further thoughts

lebron james

queengambit (Magearna) @ Leftovers
Ability: Soul-Heart
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 204 HP / 162 Def / 142 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Stored Power
- Calm Mind
- Shift Gear

142 timid to outspeed +1 at +2 cause why not lmao. can go less spe for more bulk like even full pdef

tera could be any defensive type here. u get a free turn with flying into groudon so i did that

you try your best

dies of 65 spe (Frosmoth) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Ice Scales
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz
- Ice Beam
- Tera Blast/Giga Drain
- Quiver Dance

this dude has gone on record of 1 sweep ever but ice scales is waaay too good to pass up for setup. prob a better tera type could help but idk what thatd be. electric maybe??

the guy from chess

the guy from chess (Mudsdale) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Body Press
- Iron Defense/Lash Out
- Stealth Rock/Rest/Lash Out

rocks are low-key awkward asf here but this team has negative counterplay to sturdy teams otherwise

lash out is an idea for defog gira who walls u otherwise

tera type can be anything defensive, fairy might even be a good idea but fighting is also an idea

i am never seeing the gates of heaven

*smiles back* (Chi-Yu) @ Light Clay
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ruination/Overheat
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Memento

screens support +memento to really make a mon unkillable. this is an affront to god. this is not how chi-yu was meant to be used. but how funny is it that u live non-banded groudon precipice blades because of reflect???

ruination for fat mons but overheat's fine

u could probably use any other screens mon here but beads of ruin lets u decimate teams with

taunt stallbreaker

ue,. u.. uee (Ogerpon-Wellspring) (F) @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ivy Cudgel
- Wood Hammer/Horn Leech
- Swords Dance
- Taunt

honestly any taunt setup mon works here. gets u past haze which this team would crumple to otherwise

could be cornerstone b/c dies in 1 hit to anything boosted but i like denying rain. likes the immunity sometimes but kinda rare

horn leech is an option for more recovery but wood hammer hits hard asf and cudgel usually gets the job done anyways

look at how they slimed my goat

big wheel (Cyclizar) (M) @ Sitrus Berry/Heavy Duty Boots
Ability: Shed Skin
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Knock Off/Rapid Spin
- Rapid Spin/Rest
- Shed Tail

no regen is super ok tbh. this team really appreciates shed skin for status/corrosion and obv shed tail. webs and spikes can always be annoying too so rapid spin's dope

team is ruined by trick/haze/sturdy but u have some counterplay to that. opportunist is also a pain but it depends on the rest of the team

other team member options consist of soundproof for roar (tho i think u should always pack taunt anyways), wbb or shell armor for sniper/opportunist teams (+ style points into urshifu)

 

[KaenSoul]

Air lock doesn’t work either

Cloud Nine/Air Lock work, they just dont show the visual information:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-1982717935-n5lmy1km6xy6ksplkr6079p3nxtud9lpw
As you can see, the sandstorm didn't deal damage.

 

[ShinyPawmot]

Fluffy is still legal because there are a lot offensive counterplay to it physically speaking. Also, I don't think I've seen Fluffy used in tandem with Flash Fire all that much, but someone is welcome to correct me on its viability or popularity this ladder cycle.

The obvious answer is using non-contact moves like Stone Edge (No Guard teams), Last Respects, or Glacial Lance among others. Aside from that Long Reach from Decidueye and Punching Glove exist, both of which are viable and good on physical spam teams. Multi-hit teams also shred Fluffy cores due to most of their attacks not making contact (exceptions include Maushold). Stamina does heavily check those types of teams, but they also happen to lose to high-crit variants of multi-hit teams. Other than that it's possible to simply just muscle pass Fluffy cores by stacking powerful offensive abilities like Adaptability, Supreme Overlord, and Guts among others like you see on Pixilate or priority spam teams.

Worse, well baked body exists

 

[Railroader17]

Worse, well baked body exists

But that requires using Dachsbun, which is ok for a defensive team, but pretty passive.

And TBH I also forgot Dachsbun TBH.

 

[Iynhe]

Sheer Force just blocks Rapid Spin it looks like. We tested in AAA and SP and had the same results.

oh. HAHAHA
Got bamboozled by game mechanics.

Worse, well baked body exists

I do agree but, like Electric Surge makes you play Pincurchin (extra fun going ESurge + Drought tho), WBB makes you play Dachsbun.
Having 5-ish mons that are actually good is sadly not a 1200+ move.

 

[Cuddly]

oh. HAHAHA
Got bamboozled by game mechanics.



I do agree but, like Electric Surge makes you play Pincurchin (extra fun going ESurge + Drought tho), WBB makes you play Dachsbun.
Having 5-ish mons that are actually good is sadly not a 1200+ move.

Using 1 bad Pokemon is fine so long as their ability is great.
Espathra without Speed Boost is pretty bad, but Oppritunist is still a great ability for an entire team.

 

[Sahvyt]

Why are these two allowed to co-exist in this Meta?

Or more specifically, why are Fluffy and Flash Fire allowed to co-exist!?!

Sure Fluffy only works on moves that make contact, but it still does far too good a job of stifling offensive teams in conjunction with Ice Scales. Sure it has a severe draw back in comparison to Fur Coat in that it's weal to fire.... until Heatran / Chandalure / Arcanine come in and grant Flash Fire, thus rendering that draw back invalid. So you essentially just have Fur Coat again which was banned for a reason, just at the cost of an easily splashable ability that you were probably going to put on your team anyways (especially to make the highly probable Wo-Chien on your team even less risky to use). Oh and don't forget Levitate to render Earthquake completely useless so now offensive counter play is extremely limited outside of either swapping to a special attacker (for Frosmoth & Ting-Lu to invalidate) or having to rely on Crit spam to have a chance.

At least special attackers have Chi-Yu to help them fight against the Frosmoth & Ting-Lu combo, but physical attackers don't have that (at least not yet, assuming enough of the playerbase wants Chien-Pao back).

So if we have to choose between Fluffy and Flash Fire, ban Fluffy, Flash Fire at least has other defensive utilities outside of stonewalling a majority of physical attacks. Fluffy just constrains teambuilding.

Question: Do Fur Coat and Fluffy stack? Because if so i could see Houndstone/Persian-A/Ting-Lu/Frosmoth being insanely broken.

 

[ponchlake]

Question: Do Fur Coat and Fluffy stack? Because if so i could see Houndstone/Persian-A/Ting-Lu/Frosmoth being insanely broken.

Fur Coat is banned