yeah i just figured that out, didn't have the om selected in the teambuilder lmfao
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SP Shared Power - Survey at post 418
- Thread starter KaenSoul
- Start date
Survey Results!
You can look at all the answers here:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1...joqkf_9FW4H3_9zO59I1kYfav6GuAcw/viewanalytics
Honestly, didn't expect that many answers, thanks to everyone who participated!
So now, lets take a look:
While there seems to be some support for action on Tera, is not a strong support as neither quick ban nor suspect did get that many votes, so for the time being we will be living with it, can't wait to see how the new Tera type coming on DLC2 may affect our perception of it, but I do think Tera is mostly fine in the tier.
Only a small amount of people didn't want any kind of action on it, that's why we decided to vote on it much sooner, not much that can be said at this point, it had great stats and a decent ability like many mons, but the Speed tier was too much for something this strong, and Pixilate Quick Attack could deal with most Pokémon faster than Zacian.
While Last Respects is obviously what set this thing apart from most, we can't forget we had to deal with another user last year during the Houndstone suspect test, and it was agreed upon to be balanced for the tier, and even now it doesn't receive many complaints, therefore we will look at Basculegion as a whole. And it has plenty of tools beyond LR, including Flip Turn to work as an offensive pivot, Aqua Jet to revenge kill, and passes the powerful ability Adaptability. Opinions on this one seem quite divided.
Not a lot of people seem to have problems with Espathra, it may be that they haven't had the chance to face it or that they didn't see it as a problem. With Speed Boost banned you don't see Espathra doing typical Espathra things is this tier, instead is used to give fat teams an easier time against set up, it makes walls less passive and punishes any bad timed set up move.
Got similar numbers to Basculegion, so is hard to tell what people actually think of it, it gives a unique and strong ability in Supreme Overlord and is a great wall breaker, but it is quite dependent on Sucker Punch and Tera to not get mauled by offensive teams, yet that doesn't stop it from being a top tier thread.
Sturdy got the most support and so overwhelming that it was the main reason I decided to have an early vote on it and Zacian. Most should know why it was so hated but in simple words, it was very centralizing, when paired with HDB your only real option were multi hit moves.
Opinions on which one should be banned were quite divided, but it is clear one or the other has to go. Does Serene Grace enable uncompetitive strategies, or is Shaymin-Sky that put them over the edge? If you had the bad luck to face an Air Slash team you also had the bad luck to get flinched 20 turns in a row.
Doesn't seem to have too much support for a ban, but it has some, stall always seem like a complicated topic here as is one nerf away from being unviable and a buff away from being broken, for the time being I think is better to focus on solving the HO problems the tier has, as slower teams should become easier to handle as there is less need to worry about crazy offensive stuff.
This one got little support for action, but it got more than during its suspect last year, but I believe we have enough counterplay to fluffy, even more than last time.
More people support action on Extreme Speed itself than in Dragonite, and by now it should be clear why, if it wasn't because of the popularity of the proto + psychic surge teams there would not be much that could be done to stop any of the Extreme Speed users in the tier like Lucario, Arcanine and Regieleki.
Sun is the dominating playstyle currently and opinions on it seem quite divided with none of the options having a real lead over the other with different of 2-5 votes between the top options, we have been discussing among the council and action on any of the donors or abusers doesn't seem like the way to go, as we need it to stop increasing the speed of allies for it to be balanced, so action will most likely be on Protosynthesis as it has the less collateral damage, despite making 8 (soon to be 10) Pokémon illegal, banning Drought would just make them unviable and would also make other Sun based strategies unviable, while also having a high chance of making Drizzle broken, depending on how the discussion on this topic goes we could try a different route, but for the time being Protosynthesis will be the target.
Lastly, as far as unbans go, none really got much support, Chien-Pao seems like the most realistic among the top options, Armor Tail seems mostly like a last resort option to stop Extreme Speed cleaners, but it would also make all forms of priority unreliable so we better don't get to that point. Regenerator also got some votes, but not many still, I can only imagine that unbanning Regenerator would put a prize over my head.
A small disclaimer, this was my opinion, I imagine the rest of the council has their own, you can ask them what they think. We are currently voting, expect some bans announced soon.
Based on complaints I have seen around, the following elements will be added to the watchlist:
Stamina/Mudsdale
Psychic Surge
Gale Wings
Electric Surge/Pincurchin/Quark Drive
If anyone wants to add something, just remember that I'm quite easy to convince.
You can look at all the answers here:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1...joqkf_9FW4H3_9zO59I1kYfav6GuAcw/viewanalytics
Honestly, didn't expect that many answers, thanks to everyone who participated!
So now, lets take a look:
While there seems to be some support for action on Tera, is not a strong support as neither quick ban nor suspect did get that many votes, so for the time being we will be living with it, can't wait to see how the new Tera type coming on DLC2 may affect our perception of it, but I do think Tera is mostly fine in the tier.
Only a small amount of people didn't want any kind of action on it, that's why we decided to vote on it much sooner, not much that can be said at this point, it had great stats and a decent ability like many mons, but the Speed tier was too much for something this strong, and Pixilate Quick Attack could deal with most Pokémon faster than Zacian.
While Last Respects is obviously what set this thing apart from most, we can't forget we had to deal with another user last year during the Houndstone suspect test, and it was agreed upon to be balanced for the tier, and even now it doesn't receive many complaints, therefore we will look at Basculegion as a whole. And it has plenty of tools beyond LR, including Flip Turn to work as an offensive pivot, Aqua Jet to revenge kill, and passes the powerful ability Adaptability. Opinions on this one seem quite divided.
Not a lot of people seem to have problems with Espathra, it may be that they haven't had the chance to face it or that they didn't see it as a problem. With Speed Boost banned you don't see Espathra doing typical Espathra things is this tier, instead is used to give fat teams an easier time against set up, it makes walls less passive and punishes any bad timed set up move.
Got similar numbers to Basculegion, so is hard to tell what people actually think of it, it gives a unique and strong ability in Supreme Overlord and is a great wall breaker, but it is quite dependent on Sucker Punch and Tera to not get mauled by offensive teams, yet that doesn't stop it from being a top tier thread.
Sturdy got the most support and so overwhelming that it was the main reason I decided to have an early vote on it and Zacian. Most should know why it was so hated but in simple words, it was very centralizing, when paired with HDB your only real option were multi hit moves.
Opinions on which one should be banned were quite divided, but it is clear one or the other has to go. Does Serene Grace enable uncompetitive strategies, or is Shaymin-Sky that put them over the edge? If you had the bad luck to face an Air Slash team you also had the bad luck to get flinched 20 turns in a row.
Doesn't seem to have too much support for a ban, but it has some, stall always seem like a complicated topic here as is one nerf away from being unviable and a buff away from being broken, for the time being I think is better to focus on solving the HO problems the tier has, as slower teams should become easier to handle as there is less need to worry about crazy offensive stuff.
This one got little support for action, but it got more than during its suspect last year, but I believe we have enough counterplay to fluffy, even more than last time.
More people support action on Extreme Speed itself than in Dragonite, and by now it should be clear why, if it wasn't because of the popularity of the proto + psychic surge teams there would not be much that could be done to stop any of the Extreme Speed users in the tier like Lucario, Arcanine and Regieleki.
Sun is the dominating playstyle currently and opinions on it seem quite divided with none of the options having a real lead over the other with different of 2-5 votes between the top options, we have been discussing among the council and action on any of the donors or abusers doesn't seem like the way to go, as we need it to stop increasing the speed of allies for it to be balanced, so action will most likely be on Protosynthesis as it has the less collateral damage, despite making 8 (soon to be 10) Pokémon illegal, banning Drought would just make them unviable and would also make other Sun based strategies unviable, while also having a high chance of making Drizzle broken, depending on how the discussion on this topic goes we could try a different route, but for the time being Protosynthesis will be the target.
Lastly, as far as unbans go, none really got much support, Chien-Pao seems like the most realistic among the top options, Armor Tail seems mostly like a last resort option to stop Extreme Speed cleaners, but it would also make all forms of priority unreliable so we better don't get to that point. Regenerator also got some votes, but not many still, I can only imagine that unbanning Regenerator would put a prize over my head.
A small disclaimer, this was my opinion, I imagine the rest of the council has their own, you can ask them what they think. We are currently voting, expect some bans announced soon.
Based on complaints I have seen around, the following elements will be added to the watchlist:
Stamina/Mudsdale Psychic Surge Gale Wings Electric Surge/Pincurchin/Quark DriveIf anyone wants to add something, just remember that I'm quite easy to convince.
Last edited:
ponchlake
cult of personality cult leader
They stack
As One (Calyrex-Ice)
The Combination Of Unnerve And Chilling Neigh, Which Grants A +1 Boost To Attack Upon A KO
Supreme Overlord
A Pokemon's Moves Gain A 10% Boost For Each Pokemon Fainted, Maximum 5 Allies
So Essentially This Allows ANY Physical Attacker To Snowball Out Of Control Very Quickly, With Or Without Any Other abilities. It Can Become Even More Problematic With Abilities Such As Guts And Moxie To Boost Attack By 1.5x With Status or By 2 Stages Combined With Chilling Neigh. The Combination Of Unnerve And Chilling Neigh, Which Grants A +1 Boost To Attack Upon A KO
Supreme Overlord
A Pokemon's Moves Gain A 10% Boost For Each Pokemon Fainted, Maximum 5 Allies
Urshifu @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Unseen Fist
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Wicked Blow
- U-turn
- Ice Punch
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Unseen Fist
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Surging Strikes
- Close Combat
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Spinner
Basculegion @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Last Respects
- Wave Crash
- Liquidation
- Flip Turn
Regieleki @ Flame Orb
Ability: Transistor
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Facade
- Tera Blast
- Protect
The Regieleki Set Assumes You Have Galvanize And Guts Active, While The Other 3 Can Be Thrown Onto Any Team, Especially Basculegion
And That's Not All!
For Special Attackers, A Combination Of Flare Boost And Soul Heart And/Or Spectrier Can Be Used In Place Of Chilling Neigh To Replicate The Same Thing! Chi-Yu,Walking Wake, Flutter Main, And More Can All Be Used As Abusers To This Combination! TLDR:
The Combination Of Supreme Overlord+Chilling Neigh/Moxie Or Soul Heart/Grim Neigh Is Quite Overpowered, And At Least Supreme Overlord Should Be Banned.
RE Fluffy: IMO Disappointing, but not unexpected (based on reactions to my other post on Fluffy) that most don't see it as actionable yet, I still don't think it's healthy for the tier, but no point arguing that given that I'm in the extreme minority on that topic.Survey Results!
You can look at all the answers here:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1...joqkf_9FW4H3_9zO59I1kYfav6GuAcw/viewanalytics
Honestly, didn't expect that many answers, thanks to everyone who participated!
So now, lets take a look:
View attachment 568154
While there seems to be some support for action on Tera, is not a strong support as neither quick ban nor suspect did get that many votes, so for the time being we will be living with it, can't wait to see how the new Tera type coming on DLC2 may affect our perception of it, but I do think Tera is mostly fine in the tier.
View attachment 568156
Only a small amount of people didn't want any kind of action on it, that's why we decided to vote on it much sooner, not much that can be said at this point, it had great stats and a decent ability like many mons, but the Speed tier was too much for something this strong, and Pixilate Quick Attack could deal with most Pokémon faster than Zacian.
View attachment 568157
While Last Respects is obviously what set this thing apart from most, we can't forget we had to deal with another user last year during the Houndstone suspect test, and it was agreed upon to be balanced for the tier, and even now it doesn't receive many complaints, therefore we will look at Basculegion as a whole. And it has plenty of tools beyond LR, including Flip Turn to work as an offensive pivot, Aqua Jet to revenge kill, and passes the powerful ability Adaptability. Opinions on this one seem quite divided.
View attachment 568158
Not a lot of people seem to have problems with Espathra, it may be that they haven't had the chance to face it or that they didn't see it as a problem. With Speed Boost banned you don't see Espathra doing typical Espathra things is this tier, instead is used to give fat teams an easier time against set up, it makes walls less passive and punishes any bad timed set up move.
View attachment 568159
Got similar numbers to Basculegion, so is hard to tell what people actually think of it, it gives a unique and strong ability in Supreme Overlord and is a great wall breaker, but it is quite dependent on Sucker Punch and Tera to not get mauled by offensive teams, yet that doesn't stop it from being a top tier thread.
View attachment 568160
Sturdy got the most support and so overwhelming that it was the main reason I decided to have an early vote on it and Zacian. Most should know why it was so hated but in simple words, it was very centralizing, when paired with HDB your only real option were multi hit moves.
View attachment 568161
Opinions on which one should be banned were quite divided, but it is clear one or the other has to go. Does Serene Grace enable uncompetitive strategies, or is Shaymin-Sky that put them over the edge? If you had the bad luck to face an Air Slash team you also had the bad luck to get flinched 20 turns in a row.
View attachment 568162
Doesn't seem to have too much support for a ban, but it has some, stall always seem like a complicated topic here as is one nerf away from being unviable and a buff away from being broken, for the time being I think is better to focus on solving the HO problems the tier has, as slower teams should become easier to handle as there is less need to worry about crazy offensive stuff.
View attachment 568163
This one got little support for action, but it got more than during its suspect last year, but I believe we have enough counterplay to fluffy, even more than last time.
View attachment 568164
More people support action on Extreme Speed itself than in Dragonite, and by now it should be clear why, if it wasn't because of the popularity of the proto + psychic surge teams there would not be much that could be done to stop any of the Extreme Speed users in the tier like Lucario, Arcanine and Regieleki.
View attachment 568165
Sun is the dominating playstyle currently and opinions on it seem quite divided with none of the options having a real lead over the other with different of 2-5 votes between the top options, we have been discussing among the council and action on any of the donors or abusers doesn't seem like the way to go, as we need it to stop increasing the speed of allies for it to be balanced, so action will most likely be on Protosynthesis as it has the less collateral damage, despite making 8 (soon to be 10) Pokémon illegal, banning Drought would just make them unviable and would also make other Sun based strategies unviable, while also having a high chance of making Drizzle broken, depending on how the discussion on this topic goes we could try a different route, but for the time being Protosynthesis will be the target.
View attachment 568166
Lastly, as far as unbans go, none really got much support, Chien-Pao seems like the most realistic among the top options, Armor Tail seems mostly like a last resort option to stop Extreme Speed cleaners, but it would also make all forms of priority unreliable so we better don't get to that point. Regenerator also got some votes, but not many stills, I can only imagine that unbanning Regenerator would put a prize over my head.
A small disclaimer, this was my opinion, I imagine the rest of the council has their own, you can ask them what they think. We are currently voting, expect some bans announced soon.
Based on complaints I have seen around, the following elements will be added to the watchlist:
If anyone wants to add something, just remember that I'm quite easy to convince.
I do think at the very least that Chien-Pao should be freed to help combat the power of Fluffy if it's not going away anytime soon, as well as helping to check Wo-Chien in the same vein.
So in my opinion after playing the tier for a bit there are a couple things that are insane and some of them don't make sense.Survey Results!
You can look at all the answers here:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1...joqkf_9FW4H3_9zO59I1kYfav6GuAcw/viewanalytics
Honestly, didn't expect that many answers, thanks to everyone who participated!
So now, lets take a look:
View attachment 568154
While there seems to be some support for action on Tera, is not a strong support as neither quick ban nor suspect did get that many votes, so for the time being we will be living with it, can't wait to see how the new Tera type coming on DLC2 may affect our perception of it, but I do think Tera is mostly fine in the tier.
View attachment 568156
Only a small amount of people didn't want any kind of action on it, that's why we decided to vote on it much sooner, not much that can be said at this point, it had great stats and a decent ability like many mons, but the Speed tier was too much for something this strong, and Pixilate Quick Attack could deal with most Pokémon faster than Zacian.
View attachment 568157
While Last Respects is obviously what set this thing apart from most, we can't forget we had to deal with another user last year during the Houndstone suspect test, and it was agreed upon to be balanced for the tier, and even now it doesn't receive many complaints, therefore we will look at Basculegion as a whole. And it has plenty of tools beyond LR, including Flip Turn to work as an offensive pivot, Aqua Jet to revenge kill, and passes the powerful ability Adaptability. Opinions on this one seem quite divided.
View attachment 568158
Not a lot of people seem to have problems with Espathra, it may be that they haven't had the chance to face it or that they didn't see it as a problem. With Speed Boost banned you don't see Espathra doing typical Espathra things is this tier, instead is used to give fat teams an easier time against set up, it makes walls less passive and punishes any bad timed set up move.
View attachment 568159
Got similar numbers to Basculegion, so is hard to tell what people actually think of it, it gives a unique and strong ability in Supreme Overlord and is a great wall breaker, but it is quite dependent on Sucker Punch and Tera to not get mauled by offensive teams, yet that doesn't stop it from being a top tier thread.
View attachment 568160
Sturdy got the most support and so overwhelming that it was the main reason I decided to have an early vote on it and Zacian. Most should know why it was so hated but in simple words, it was very centralizing, when paired with HDB your only real option were multi hit moves.
View attachment 568161
Opinions on which one should be banned were quite divided, but it is clear one or the other has to go. Does Serene Grace enable uncompetitive strategies, or is Shaymin-Sky that put them over the edge? If you had the bad luck to face an Air Slash team you also had the bad luck to get flinched 20 turns in a row.
View attachment 568162
Doesn't seem to have too much support for a ban, but it has some, stall always seem like a complicated topic here as is one nerf away from being unviable and a buff away from being broken, for the time being I think is better to focus on solving the HO problems the tier has, as slower teams should become easier to handle as there is less need to worry about crazy offensive stuff.
View attachment 568163
This one got little support for action, but it got more than during its suspect last year, but I believe we have enough counterplay to fluffy, even more than last time.
View attachment 568164
More people support action on Extreme Speed itself than in Dragonite, and by now it should be clear why, if it wasn't because of the popularity of the proto + psychic surge teams there would not be much that could be done to stop any of the Extreme Speed users in the tier like Lucario, Arcanine and Regieleki.
View attachment 568165
Sun is the dominating playstyle currently and opinions on it seem quite divided with none of the options having a real lead over the other with different of 2-5 votes between the top options, we have been discussing among the council and action on any of the donors or abusers doesn't seem like the way to go, as we need it to stop increasing the speed of allies for it to be balanced, so action will most likely be on Protosynthesis as it has the less collateral damage, despite making 8 (soon to be 10) Pokémon illegal, banning Drought would just make them unviable and would also make other Sun based strategies unviable, while also having a high chance of making Drizzle broken, depending on how the discussion on this topic goes we could try a different route, but for the time being Protosynthesis will be the target.
View attachment 568166
Lastly, as far as unbans go, none really got much support, Chien-Pao seems like the most realistic among the top options, Armor Tail seems mostly like a last resort option to stop Extreme Speed cleaners, but it would also make all forms of priority unreliable so we better don't get to that point. Regenerator also got some votes, but not many still, I can only imagine that unbanning Regenerator would put a prize over my head.
A small disclaimer, this was my opinion, I imagine the rest of the council has their own, you can ask them what they think. We are currently voting, expect some bans announced soon.
Based on complaints I have seen around, the following elements will be added to the watchlist:
If anyone wants to add something, just remember that I'm quite easy to convince.
1) Protosynthesis/Quark Drive are able to exist while Quick feet/Weather speed boosting abilities are banned. That needs to be addressed either allow all, or ban all. The ladder is almost all weather/electric terrain spam. Banning drought/electric surge could fix the issue outright.
2) Fluffy + Flash Fire is ridiculous, in addition to Stamina (which I believe is balanced). This is basically like having Fur Coat since most physical moves make contact and you're removing the fire weakness. Ice Scales is broken but so is Beads of Ruin and that's allowed.
3) How is Chi-yu allowed and not Chien-Pao. Special wall breakers have always been harder to deal with than physical wall breakers. This one just confuses me, especially since Zacian was allowed for a while.
4) Broken priority moves (aka E-speed and Gale wings) Offensive teams are pretty much forced to run psychic terrain to deal with these, and in some cases gale wings can use tailwind and continue the shenanigans. I see Psychic surge was added to the watchlist, but that's more of a biproduct of offensive team that are speed boosting via weather/terrain needing to beat priority spamming teams.
*Side note: Shaymin-Sky with gale wings is ridiculous, just play against it without psychic terrain or e-speed and see*
The ladder especially closer to the top feels like you're playing 4 archetypes:
Sun w/ psychic terrain or Quark Drive
Fluffy + Flash Fire + Ice Scale stall
Priority Spam (E-speed/Gale Wings)
Harvest + Cheek Pouch Stall
I would just like to see a few of the issues addressed, not all. Thanks
We are addressing Protosynthesis now, is getting banned, but we are waiting on the final council member to vote before announcing results as we need their vote to decide the fate of a different subject. We didn't ban it before because we needed opinions from the public to decide what to do, as it is not an easy decision, as the ability is attached to 8-10 different Pokémon. About Quark Drive, is a bit different, as it requires you to use Pincurchin, and is incompatible with Psychic Surge, meaning that these teams have one mon less and can't do anything to stop priority.
You may be surprised by the little support action Fluffy got in the survey, but is easily explained, as there are many ways around Fluffy, between strong non-contact moves (Stone Edge, Bullet Seed, Glacial Lance, Aqua Cutter, Dragon Darts, Petal Blizzard, Triple Arrows, etc.), Decidueye (Longh Reach) and Punching Gloves. Also, you may be overestimating Beads of Ruin, it is strong, but physical attackers have many abilities that are just as strong or even stronger, like Guts, Toxic Boost, Sharpness, Tough Claws, Strong Jaw, etc., on top of many that also work for special attackers like Supreme Overlord, Adaptability, and others. A good physical oriented team can easily ignore Fluffy.
Chien-Pao was banned for being a very strong mon on top of having a good ability, it has access to priority, a stab that ignores Fluffy (Icicle Crash) and a great speed tier.
Extreme Speed is getting banned, but we can discuss Gale Wings now, if there is enough support it may receive action next time.
Hope this helped.
Thanks this does help a lot. The only thing I have to say about fluffy, is that team building is suboptimal because you have to worry about e-speed and run psychic terrain to ignore strong priority spammers, so I guess after the bans we will see.
Voting is over.
Basculegion (both), Extreme Speed, Protosynthesis and Shaymin-Sky are now banned!
We will also unban Arecus Bug, Dragon, Ice, Psychic and Fire!
Explanations on the bans can be found here.
Now, about Arceus, we may look at the remaining forms later if the ones being free now end being ok, Bug and Ice are weak to SR on top of being vulnerable to all hazards, Fire also has the problem of Flash Fire being very popular, Psychic isn't a strong type currently and the tier has been able to handle Mewtwo just fine, Dragon is comparable to plenty of the legal dragon-types like Palkia-Origin and Eternatus, but it doesn't have a secondary STAB, so it should have a much harder time breaking pass Fairies. They will all be in the watch list at first.
Kris you wont believe this.
| KaenSoul | Ponchlake | Gimlaf | Clefable | |
| Basculegion | Ban | Ban | Ban | Ban |
| Espathra | Ban | Abstain | Abstain | Do Not Ban |
| Kingambit | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban |
| Ice Scales | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban |
| Fluffy | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban | Do Not Ban |
| Extreme Speed | Ban | Ban | Ban | Do Not Ban |
| Protosynthesis | Ban | Ban | Ban | Abstain |
| Shaymin-Sky/Serene Grace | Ban Shaymin-Sky | Ban Shaymin-Sky | Ban Shaymin-Sky | Ban Serene Grace |
| Chien-Pao | Unban | Keep Banned | Keep Banned | Abstain |
Basculegion (both), Extreme Speed, Protosynthesis and Shaymin-Sky are now banned!
We will also unban Arecus Bug, Dragon, Ice, Psychic and Fire!
Explanations on the bans can be found here.
Now, about Arceus, we may look at the remaining forms later if the ones being free now end being ok, Bug and Ice are weak to SR on top of being vulnerable to all hazards, Fire also has the problem of Flash Fire being very popular, Psychic isn't a strong type currently and the tier has been able to handle Mewtwo just fine, Dragon is comparable to plenty of the legal dragon-types like Palkia-Origin and Eternatus, but it doesn't have a secondary STAB, so it should have a much harder time breaking pass Fairies. They will all be in the watch list at first.
Kris you wont believe this.
Got rank 1 just now with this team. Here are my thoughts on the meta game rn:
Something has to be done about dragonite asap it's by far the most broken thing in the meta basically 0 counters.
Idk if E-speed is broken enough on other mons for it to be banned. the only thing I've seen it on is regieleki but havent lost against that yet, also arcenine might just fill the roll of dnite if it gets banned but tbh idk if kills all the meta threats like dnite does.
Proto+drought is also rlly broken especially with fluttermane. Its kinda hard to ban protosynth tho bc it basically removes 8 mons from the meta which kinda sucks so I would advocate for a drought ban over photosynthesis.
so all in all ban dragonite, prob ban flutter or drought and see if e-speed is still broken after that.
Here is the team if you want the easiest rank 1 of your life, Lead Groudon then swap around till you activate al ur abilities and go ham with dragonite.
https://pokepast.es/92f4639de044d1ef
Something has to be done about dragonite asap it's by far the most broken thing in the meta basically 0 counters.
Idk if E-speed is broken enough on other mons for it to be banned. the only thing I've seen it on is regieleki but havent lost against that yet, also arcenine might just fill the roll of dnite if it gets banned but tbh idk if kills all the meta threats like dnite does.
Proto+drought is also rlly broken especially with fluttermane. Its kinda hard to ban protosynth tho bc it basically removes 8 mons from the meta which kinda sucks so I would advocate for a drought ban over photosynthesis.
so all in all ban dragonite, prob ban flutter or drought and see if e-speed is still broken after that.
Here is the team if you want the easiest rank 1 of your life, Lead Groudon then swap around till you activate al ur abilities and go ham with dragonite.
https://pokepast.es/92f4639de044d1ef
Attachments
Read the post above yours.
And yes, we do believe other espeed users are just as broken, not much change when you give Arcanine or Lucario the CB instead, Lucario can also SD which means it can boost and become Fairy when used with Protean, unlike nite that if it wanted to use a set-up move it would become Dragon. They all can also use Tera Normal + Scrappy for a similar result.
Lmao, Appears I thought it was broken for the wrong reason
also just run shell armor and make this truly unstoppable
Disappointed but not surprised about FluffScales staying legal. Happy that Basculegion is gone.
But I am incredibly disappointed with Chien-Pao staying banned. It's probably the single best answer to Fluffy short of just banning the ability itself or banning Flash Fire / Well Baked Body (but if your willing to scrap 2 other fine abilities to preserve Fluffy, then you have a major problem with the meta itself and not just Fluffy).
E-terrain is fine since it can't stack with Psychic Terrain, so you are still vulnerable to every form of priority
Oh dear god I never thought of this.
Soul-Heart + Chilling Neigh (+2 Sp. Atk per kill), Supreme Overlord (1.5× both offenses if last one standing), Adaptability (STAB=1.5×->2×), Flare Boost (1.5× Sp.Atk when Burned), Beads of Ruin (equivalent to 1.33× Sp. Atk)
Can someone run some calcs with this?
Keep in mind +2 stat boost has diminishing returns. Going from +2 to +4 is ultimately a x1.5 as 2x1.5 = 3 (which is how much +4 boosts).
With that said just use a calculator. Type in the search bar of your computer and type calculator. It really isn’t that hard.
Chilling Neigh raises attack, you'd need Spectrier's Grim Neigh for +2 SpA per kill.
Can we all agree to ban magearna?
To start off, lets get the facts straight, magearna is a UBER-TIERED with 80/95/115/130/115/65 with a Steel/Fairy typing by far one-of if not the best defensive type only being weak to ground and fire, with a mid-good movepool (depending on the person)
You may be wondering "why ban magearna?" or "how is magearna bannable?" and answering this question is pretty easy
1. The amount of counters to magearna teams is nearly none, you can't even make a team without questioning how it counters magearna, most of the time its gonna be another magearna team which isn't even guaranteed to actually counter other magearna teamsTo start off, lets get the facts straight, magearna is a UBER-TIERED with 80/95/115/130/115/65 with a Steel/Fairy typing by far one-of if not the best defensive type only being weak to ground and fire, with a mid-good movepool (depending on the person)
You may be wondering "why ban magearna?" or "how is magearna bannable?" and answering this question is pretty easy
Proof:
[Gen 9] Shared Power replay: wrtosread vs. angl3r - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)
2. the amount of skill you put in to actually win with magearna teams is absolutely braindead. its essentially switch in whoever you want until you have every pokemon on your team but magearna that has been in the battle then switch into magearna then sweep with orthworm's substitute and perhaps you think i'm lying, if so, watch the video
Proof:
[Gen 9] Shared Power replay: wrtosread vs. angl3r - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)
Well that's really all i needed to talk about, its hard to beat and too easy to use
Attachments
If you add Shell Armor you give up on another important thing, all the abilities there are important for the strategy to work.
You should be able to predict when is coming, as it needs all 5 abilities first before setting up, unlike other tiers were the Shed Tail user can come at any moment, this give you a big opportunity window to prepare, and easy way out is to just set up before they do, also you need some anti set up options in general as there are many ways to turn any mon in the game into an unstoppable in theory monster, Taunt, phasing, statuses, etc., everyone with a good team has more than one crazy wincon by virtue of the format, so either get on your wincon first or on your chosen answer.
Magearna didn’t get any petitions in the survey, we may look into it if it gets crazy with the meta changes, but at least these kinds of teams should be look at by what is enabling your sweeper, not the sweeper you chose, as almost anything can be that.
This might be the best team for giving the
to Maushold teams IMO.A sacrifice for the Maus, but valuable nontheless. Pickpocket allows Weavile to take Maushold's extremely common Protective Pads, opening it up to bullshit from the rest of the squad.
Tablets of Ruin are very powerful against Maushold due to Population Bomb being physical, and from what I can tell, it calculates the ×.75 multiplier AFTER Guts (which is becoming more common in my experience). Ingrain and Leech Seed with Big Root actually outheals both with leftovers, just do NOT click Ingrain if you're expecting or facing a Maushold since Encore makes you setup fodder.
Stamina.
In combination with Pickpocket from Weavile, a Maushold (or really any physical attacker) hitting this thing is losing a shitton of health. Spikes help break sashes on things like Lycanrock-Midnight, and Scale Shot + Stamina from Mudsdale makes this thing extremely threatening when combined with its high HP.
Fluffy reduces Population Bomb damage and makes everything overall a lot tankier, in exchange for doubling the team's Fire weakness. This, however, is rarely a problem, since Fire coverage (and Fire-types in general) are actually quite rare. Also, 384 speed under Scarf with Last Respects is sort of unfair.
"CREATURE, OF CHEESE... MY GRATITUDE UPON THEE FOR MY SWITCH-IN. BUT THE CRIMES, THY KIND HAVE COMMITED UPON THIS METAGAME? ARE NOT! FORGOTTEN. AND THY PUNISHMENT... IS STALL!"
This stupid dog is the tankiest motherfucker this side of Galar since Ferrothorn in Gen 5. Dauntless Shield immediately gives +1 Defense upon entering the field, and Stamina bolsters it with every hit. At +6 Defense, Zamazenta has a mind-boggling 1.2K Defense, not even factoring in Fluffy and Tablets of Ruin. This combined with chip from Rocky Helmet and Population Bomb being resisted by Steel results in Maushold's dreams and ambitions being crushed and your screen being entirely covered in text.
Decided I would do an overview of my team because for one i enjoy doing them and two I do think this team is fairly easy to pilot so this could give new players a strong team to start with!
https://pokepast.es/91d44fe9a3af45db
Golem-Alola @ Focus Sash
Ability: Galvanize
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Counter
- Body Slam
- Explosion
You are either leading calyrex-ice or this thing, most of the time this, and depending on what you are facing you click rocks or counter, a lot of them time you can trade for rocks and then kill their lead with explosion or counter because of the 4x weakness to ground.
Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Defog
- Facade
- Poison Jab/Ice Punch/Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
Conkeldurr just does conk things, you could use defog if caly ice could be a win condition, but if a single layer of tspikes is up, leave it so caly ice can get the guts boost. Tera electric for more power on facade, but a defensive tera could be used, probably like poison or steel.
Calyrex-Ice @ Weakness Policy
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
Tera Type: Psychic/Ice/Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Glacial Lance
- Zen Headbutt
- Close Combat
- Agility
I LOVE this mon on this team. Lead this if mudsdale or groudon looks to be the lead and click agility on their rocks. then just click whatever. You will like never tera this, but if you do Either a defensive type or fighting will work.
Kingambit @ Leftovers
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Low Kick
Kingambit. Need I say more?
Crawdaunt @ Flame Orb
Ability: Adaptability
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
I dunno about crawdaunt yet. its my current adaptability setter and can do some damage before eleki comes out, but don't be hesitant to sack this unless you need the priority. If Crawdaunt isn't working just use scarf white-striped basculin with the standard basculegion set.
Regieleki @ Flame Orb
Ability: Transistor
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Facade
- Tera Blast
- Protect
The star of this team. Most games will end with this thing sweeping because its faster than pretty much anything that isn't scarf. Tera on ground types to kill them, but most of the time click facade. sub can be used if you predict a switch to a priority using pokemon.
https://pokepast.es/91d44fe9a3af45db
Golem-Alola @ Focus Sash
Ability: Galvanize
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Counter
- Body Slam
- Explosion
You are either leading calyrex-ice or this thing, most of the time this, and depending on what you are facing you click rocks or counter, a lot of them time you can trade for rocks and then kill their lead with explosion or counter because of the 4x weakness to ground.
Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Defog
- Facade
- Poison Jab/Ice Punch/Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
Conkeldurr just does conk things, you could use defog if caly ice could be a win condition, but if a single layer of tspikes is up, leave it so caly ice can get the guts boost. Tera electric for more power on facade, but a defensive tera could be used, probably like poison or steel.
Calyrex-Ice @ Weakness Policy
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
Tera Type: Psychic/Ice/Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Glacial Lance
- Zen Headbutt
- Close Combat
- Agility
I LOVE this mon on this team. Lead this if mudsdale or groudon looks to be the lead and click agility on their rocks. then just click whatever. You will like never tera this, but if you do Either a defensive type or fighting will work.
Kingambit @ Leftovers
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Low Kick
Kingambit. Need I say more?
Crawdaunt @ Flame Orb
Ability: Adaptability
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
I dunno about crawdaunt yet. its my current adaptability setter and can do some damage before eleki comes out, but don't be hesitant to sack this unless you need the priority. If Crawdaunt isn't working just use scarf white-striped basculin with the standard basculegion set.
Regieleki @ Flame Orb
Ability: Transistor
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Facade
- Tera Blast
- Protect
The star of this team. Most games will end with this thing sweeping because its faster than pretty much anything that isn't scarf. Tera on ground types to kill them, but most of the time click facade. sub can be used if you predict a switch to a priority using pokemon.
My bit on Magearna Stored Power Teams:
My Team
I know the sets on this team are really bad (The Drednaw makes me want to vomit, and I made it) but they all have some purpose.
Anyways, when playing with this team, I have noticed that the team is extremely easy to counter, and is not completely brain dead like someone above suggested. It requires a lot of pivoting, that is easily punishable, and most of the team is just not very good.
It gets shut down by Opportunist, Taunt, Etc.
It is also not that easy to play because it is weak to opposing setup sweepers, and Orthworm is very unreliable when it comes to getting Shed Tail off, Infiltrator exists, and position matters too much.
There is also a lack of hazard control, and Dark types exist, which are immune to Stored Power.
My Team
I know the sets on this team are really bad (The Drednaw makes me want to vomit, and I made it) but they all have some purpose.
Anyways, when playing with this team, I have noticed that the team is extremely easy to counter, and is not completely brain dead like someone above suggested. It requires a lot of pivoting, that is easily punishable, and most of the team is just not very good.
It gets shut down by Opportunist, Taunt, Etc.
It is also not that easy to play because it is weak to opposing setup sweepers, and Orthworm is very unreliable when it comes to getting Shed Tail off, Infiltrator exists, and position matters too much.
There is also a lack of hazard control, and Dark types exist, which are immune to Stored Power.