Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread

[Savouras]

What would be a decent alternative to usage-based tiering when evaluating the viability of a Pokemon when usage and player activity isn't high? this is mostly specific to smaller showdown servers with fakemon.

Well there still should be a some activity that u could get some info from aswell as Winratio from that little activity.
That way u could start with a base layout of how good and viable a pokemon is and based on the Winratio, the little usage and aswell as opinions from the active players u could shape some good viability rankings. Since u talkin about small servers then it shouldnt be too difficult to get into corversations with active players about each mon and where it should be i feel.

 

[abysshriek]

What do you guys think about Tera Steel Ceruledge? I doubt it'd be very good in the current meta considering you're still retaining that Ground weakness, but I'm wondering if there's any sets that could make it work?

 

[Savouras]

What do you guys think about Tera Steel Ceruledge? I doubt it'd be very good in the current meta considering you're still retaining that Ground weakness, but I'm wondering if there's any sets that could make it work?

Ehh it does sound kinda cool to be a steel immune to fire type atks but i dont think u benefit v much from it. Not only grounds as u mentioned still beat you so thngs like Chomp and Great tusk but u also now have a fighting weakness over immunity vs valiant, u still dont break garganacl especially with the extra dmg salt cure does to steels, doesnt benefit vs gambit trade against kowtwo cleave and the resistances steel provide if you think of it u kindof had already, fairy resist, steel resist vs make it rains, ice resist vs bax etc. It does mean Toxapex and Clodsire not going to be able to Toxic u that u can prevent naturally by Taunting them so this could maybe mean if using Steel u could do an SD no taunt set possibly but CC since u outspeed gambit and have that nice Mortal Spin immunity now vs offense.

 

[abysshriek]

Ehh it does sound kinda cool to be a steel immune to fire type atks but i dont think u benefit v much from it. Not only grounds as u mentioned still beat you so thngs like Chomp and Great tusk but u also now have a fighting weakness over immunity vs valiant, u still dont break garganacl especially with the extra dmg salt cure does to steels, doesnt benefit vs gambit trade against kowtwo cleave and the resistances steel provide if you think of it u kindof had already, fairy resist, steel resist vs make it rains, ice resist vs bax etc. It does mean Toxapex and Clodsire not going to be able to Toxic u that u can prevent naturally by Taunting them so this could maybe mean if using Steel u could do an SD no taunt set possibly but CC since u outspeed gambit and have that nice Mortal Spin immunity now vs offense.

Figured, but appreciate the insight! Totally forgot about Salt Cure's extra damage lol I need to keep that in mind, thank you o7

 

[Local Dog]

Why is Magnezone considered worse this gen? Are there just fewer top tier steels it can trap and beat in gen 9?

 

[Finchinator]

Why is Magnezone considered worse this gen? Are there just fewer top tier steels it can trap and beat in gen 9?

No Melmetal, Ferrothorn, or Skarmory, so yes. In general, we have fewer Steels than normal.

 

[pika pal]

Why is Magnezone considered worse this gen? Are there just fewer top tier steels it can trap and beat in gen 9?

Seems the most logical explanation, being the major OU Steels (B-ranks and up) are

• Gholdengo (untrappable, immune to Body Press)
• Kingambit (frequently Teras, both avoiding Trapping and removing the 4x Body Press Weakness to cut through its bulk)
• Corviknight (fair, though it has U-Turn so it's not totally blocked from pivoting compared to walling/healing/utility moves)
• Orthworm (its entire niche is a move that is to get it off the field anyway)
• Scizor (U-Turner, has Fighting Coverage, also just not very impressive right now)
• Iron Treads (Ground Coverage, even if using Balloon or such it's very uncommon due to Tusk

The Steel count is lower and Magnezone matches up poorly with the ones we have in a Trapper role. Most of its major trap targets are missing, pending DLC addition potential, and on top of that, a lot of the above Steels simply aren't hard enough to remove that trapping would be worth Magnezone's other shortcomings even if they worked (Gholdengo is really easy to overload, Kingambit probably wants to wait until 1 turn is enough for big progress from it due to Supreme Overlord, etc.)

 

[malomyotismon]

I've heard of a mythical ou set for swift swim golduck. Anyone know much about the set to give full details on nature,item ect?

 

[Finchinator]

I've heard of a mythical ou set for swift swim golduck. Anyone know much about the set to give full details on nature,item ect?

NP Surf Ice GK TeraWater, it hits decently hard in Rain and is very fast with SS of course. With the limited dex, it can be justified

 

[malomyotismon]

NP Surf Ice GK TeraWater, it hits decently hard in Rain and is very fast with SS of course. With the limited dex, it can be justified

Makes me wish we got ludicolo instead XD

 

[malomyotismon]

Why was Roaring Moon considered too much for gen 9 national dex but not SV OU? Personally I think it shouldn’t be a part of either metagame, but I’m just wondering why it was unstoppable in natdex specifically.

National Dex has access to z moves that have pushed Pokémon over the she via powering through their counters. With access to dragon dance, a fantastic stat spread which includes 119 speed and a move pool to back it up too, it's likely why it's gone.through I'm sure a nat Dex forum or the like will be able to say more.

 

[UnusualBoy]

Why was Roaring Moon considered too much for gen 9 national dex but not SV OU? Personally I think it shouldn’t be a part of either metagame, but I’m just wondering why it was unstoppable in natdex specifically.

I found this from back in the day when it was banned:

Roaring Moon
Roaring Moon was one of the first mons that stood out to the council on release, and it has carried its strong reputation since. Fantastic offensive stats, as well as a very solid Special Defense stat have lead to the mon being perhaps the most devastating sweeper in the entire game. Not only this, but it has had several variances in its sets that have made answering it borderline impossible. Whilst most users may have been using Tera Steel to get around Fairy types, other players had been using Tera Flying with Acrobatics + Booster Energy to get around checks like Great Tusk and force 50/50s around Iron Hands. There were also users of Tera Ground which got by the above counterplay and Fairy-types, although it was less effective at luring its intended targets. Substitute + Jaw Lock was also used in combination with Terastalization to lure in targets that would otherwise be able to beat it and use them as set-up fodder. Even regarding this, the simple combination of its STABs + coverage for Fairy-types paired with Booster Energy in Attack was far too powerful to be dealt with reliably, and as such, Roaring Moon is now banned.

It's kind of weird since it's basically the same things it does in OU but that happened like 1 week into the meta...

 

[Finchinator]

Why was Roaring Moon considered too much for gen 9 national dex but not SV OU? Personally I think it shouldn’t be a part of either metagame, but I’m just wondering why it was unstoppable in natdex specifically.

Yeah I saw this, it’s pretty confusing since it doesn’t mention Z-moves at all. I suppose the natdex council takes less bs than the OU council when it comes to unhealthy sweepers.

With all due respect, this is a silly comparison. The metagames are entirely different with so many more conflicting variables beyond Z moves.

It’s not ever a linear “more options to check or counter, so if it’s broken there, then it must be here” when you consider there are also more possible supporters, teammates, options, and so on as well. The metagames are not similar and drawing many parallels between the two always leads to trouble. Last generation is a great case study for that and this one is playing out to be similar. This generation thus far also makes the differences larger as we have Pokemon Home looming overhead without a concrete date.

Another thing worth noting is National Dex is not held to close to the same standard as OU as they’re not official or the flagship metagame. OU had to run a longer, multifaceted Tera test while National Dex’s was more black-and-white. OU runs recurring surveys to dictate suspects and small quantities of quickbans while National Dex was able to dispatch of over a dozen Pokemon within a very brief period.

Despite all of this, Roaring Moon was up for quickban vote multiple times early on, as a member of the first few Radars, and received no votes to be banned. It was hardly ever brought up in surveys despite thousands of people forming the sample of responses as well. I would argue Roaring Moon is starting to peak now as well, but it’s largely a beneficiary of circumstance thanks to Orthworm Shed Tail (far more problematic) or even Sun support.

I find it silly that people kneejerk to blaming the council when context isn’t considered and false equivalences are drawn. It would quite literally be an abuse of power for us to promptly act on Roaring Moon without community backing, especially when multiple other things have received greater support. Obviously this is subject to change in the future, but it’s not there currently.

If you think it should be banned, I implore you to share your thoughts in the metagame thread.

 

[malomyotismon]

Psychic terrain team was something I held off trying till now, but ultimately I'm a little unsure of the main mons involved outside of indeedee male and armourage with the later unsure the most optimal set. Anyone else able help with knowledge of this niche team build?

 

[1LDK]

Psychic terrain team was something I held off trying till now, but ultimately I'm a little unsure of the main mons involved outside of indeedee male and armourage with the later unsure the most optimal set. Anyone else able help with knowledge of this niche team build?

It is also mandatory to add Polteageist as another focus sash + stored power sweeper that benefits from terrain. And as for optional but recomended team members, Hatterne for her ability to deflect hazards, if rocks get up against you, you lost, so adding tusk besides that can be cool, the last mon can be something that appreciates no priority, I have seen Volcarona, Baxcalibur a lot, and the ocasional Cinderace too for added hazard support

 

[SetsuSetsuna]

Psychic terrain team was something I held off trying till now, but ultimately I'm a little unsure of the main mons involved outside of indeedee male and armourage with the later unsure the most optimal set. Anyone else able help with knowledge of this niche team build?

Hey. This is just a copy paste from an rfaq in OU room. But it helps a lot.

Teams in question:
Template https://pokepast.es/ed854811d61f813d
Cinderace + Baxcalibur https://pokepast.es/9198648d06e76b8e
Great Tusk + Volcarona https://pokepast.es/c137d950ce656343
Dragonite + Cloyster https://pokepast.es/3a43ab0fb40899bf

Feel free to ask any further questions you may have.

 

[`ShadowTwo]

Hello, do you know when the sample teams will be updated? With the latest Pokémon available and the evolution of the meta, the previous list seems a bit outdated to me.

 

[Ast0rga]

I've been getting this team on lots of opponents
Is this some popular RMT or team from somewhere
Cause might as well grab the pokepaste myself too

 

[SetsuSetsuna]

View attachment 504309
I've been getting this team on lots of opponents
Is this some popular RMT or team from somewhere
Cause might as well grab the pokepaste myself too

It should be this team. Its about 2 months old but was rather popular and had a few variants. Though the one here is rather weak to Specs Walling Wake. Its still a fine team.

 

[Savouras]

View attachment 504309
I've been getting this team on lots of opponents
Is this some popular RMT or team from somewhere
Cause might as well grab the pokepaste myself too

Thats mr MAVERICK SHOOTERS famous team, one of the best builders this generation. Its abit old tho strugglin against the now metagame defining pokemons so u should be able to cook some Ws vs these

 

[Cadence]

How should a new player get good quickly at competitive Pokemon?

 

[Red Raven]

How should a new player get good quickly at competitive Pokemon?

You don't. If you want to git gud, you need to be patient. You need to understand the metagame and that alone takes time. The viability rankings only gives you a general overview and you could put together pieces from it but it will rarely ever give you the full picture. You just have to play the tier until you get that understanding. Why this runs that, why it uses this items and so on and so forth

Or you could find someone to teach you

 

[awyp]

How should a new player get good quickly at competitive Pokemon?

Following / Using Sample Teams for given tier: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-sample-teams.3712513/
Practicing on the ladder for given tier
Signing up for Battling 101: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/apprentice-program-signups-sv-ou.3715591/

 

[YNM]

I have a question to get a better understanding of the current metagame, why does Sun Hatterene runs Nuzzle most of the time, when in almost every other strategy the CM 3 attacks set is usually the most used? Is it to allow Banded Moon and Specs Wake to sweep more easily?

 

[Finchinator]

I have a question to get a better understanding of the current metagame, why does Sun Hatterene runs Nuzzle most of the time, when in almost every other strategy the CM 3 attacks set is usually the most used? Is it to allow Banded Moon and Specs Wake to sweep more easily?

Teams don’t want to always lock into passive sequences and commit to a single win condition necessarily. Hatterene can function as a pivot with Eject Button and HWish on teams like Sun and HO, which allows for more positioning advantages while maintaining a field void of opposing entry hazards.