Gen 5 Sky Drop implementation and possible ban, opinions wanted

ascriptmaster

ascriptmaster

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Earlier this week a Gen 1 thread made a decision on whether or not Fly and Dig should be banned from Gen 1 in favor of cartridge adherence. (See it here http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ion-and-possible-ban-opinions-wanted.3527640/)

Basically, should the same thing be done with Sky Drop? The Sky Drop glitch in Gen 5 prevents an opposing Pokemon from moving if Sky Drop and Gravity are used in unison, usually keeping them stuck until the user switches or is knocked out (or in obscure situations, when the user completes another two-turn move).
 
to me, the whole point of a bug is that it's not at all what was intended, and therefore it's not a big deal to fix

now, i know that with gamefreak's haphazard approach (aegis a special attacker? didnt see that coming) many things could be 'not at all what was intended' but still cartridge pure. however, i think that this does fall under the category of a bug that's just really, really not what was meant to happen at all, because it happens until the user switches out, not just until Sky Drop ends (which would make sense).

you can have unintended consequences by 2 things intersecting that work logically, which might be game-breaking or w/e but are fine. but these two don't intersect to form something logical, they intersect to form something the game doesn't understand how to handle, defaulting in a situation that makes no sense. therefore i view it as a bug, and why not fix bugs if you can?
 
tehy said:
why not fix bugs if you can?
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yeah i dont get it either

unban dig and fly and fix the mechanic instead..but if consistency is the goal this is an obvious ban instead rather than a fix. also acid rain in gen 4
 
Acid Rain can be avoided if both players are using Diamond and Pearl or the game host doesn't Pursuit (it has to be the host for the glitch to activate).

Implement and ban from Doubles (it's impossible to pull off in Singles because Gravity has to be used on the same turn Sky Drop is initiated). Alternatively, ban Sky Drop + Gravity on the same team.
 
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Isa said:
unban dig and fly and fix the mechanic instead..but if consistency is the goal this is an obvious ban instead rather than a fix. also acid rain in gen 4
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Consistency should be the goal
Karxrida said:
Acid Rain can be avoided by playing on Diamond and Pearl (don't know what happens if it's DP vs Pt/HGSS).
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But if you do that, Hypnosis has 70% accuracy, Blizzard under Hail and Thunder under Rain have 30% chance to go through Protect, there is no Gira-O Rotom-A Skymin, and there's a few other differences as well.
 
froggy25 said:
But if you do that, Hypnosis has 70% accuracy, Blizzard under Hail and Thunder under Rain have 30% chance to go through Protect, there is no Gira-O Rotom-A Skymin, and there's a few other differences as well.
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I forgot about Rotom-A and co.(it's late), but if you and your opponent aren't running them then it shouldn't be that big of an issue.

Alternatively, just don't host.
 
if you cant be the game host then the imbalance of pokemon is ruined and we can't have that. banning one player but not the other from using a move is blatantly ridiculous as i hope you understand.
 
If you're playing in-game you're probably not going to bring Pursuit anyway just to avoid the glitch. Besides, I don't see why it would be unreasonable to have someone who's not carrying it on their team to host the game. It's not like it's mandatory or something.
 
As I said on another thread
froggy25 said:
While I'm against implementing game-breaking glitches, glitches that lets both players continue to play (even if one is basically invincible) should be implemented imho.
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Acid Rain is a game-breaking glitch, as it makes the game barely playable, and softlocks the game if either player has a Castform in their team.
 
Karxrida said:
Acid Rain can be avoided if both players are using Diamond and Pearl or the game host doesn't Pursuit (it has to be the host for the glitch to activate).

Implement and ban from Doubles (it's impossible to pull off in Singles because Gravity has to be used on the same turn Sky Drop is initiated). Alternatively, ban Sky Drop + Gravity on the same team.
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if you play on just DP then you get different glitches tho, there's quite a few glitches on DPPHGSS series that only work when you have certain combinations of cartridges, but there doesn't exist a combination that allows you to avoid all glitches simultenously.

Sky Drop ban should be in place for whenever it's possible for it to break the game imo, always use the actual mechanics rather than trying to change the game to your liking.
froggy25 said:
As I said on another thread

Acid Rain is a game-breaking glitch, as it makes the game barely playable, and softlocks the game if either player has a Castform in their team.
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then ban castform, and actually implement the mechanics as is. I think the correct mechanics are more important than banning a pokemon noone uses.

i think this is a good point to realise the combination of cartridge versions used really does affect significant things [bugs, mechanic changes, etc] surely though games should be played on 2 HG/SS carts as they're the final release of the generation?
 
23:03:30 Ascriptmaster: I'll, um
23:03:39 Ascriptmaster: post a thread about it in Ruins of Alph
23:04:24 Marty: since it only applies to Doubles, I'm not sure anyone there cares
23:06:07 Ascriptmaster: oh
23:06:11 Ascriptmaster: so no thread?
23:07:32 Marty: well, if you want to post one go right ahead
23:08:07 Marty: as long as no one brings up Acid Rain
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How did I know?!

No one is proposing implementing Acid Rain at this time, mostly because I haven't researched it properly and don't really plan on it any time soon. I've been told Pokémon Lab had it implemented, but just porting that over without checking its accuracy would be pretty irresponsible.

This thread is about Gen 5 Doubles/Triples and Sky Drop + Gravity mechanics; please stay on topic!
 
Marty said:
How did I know?!

No one is proposing implementing Acid Rain at this time, mostly because I haven't researched it properly and don't really plan on it any time soon. I've been told Pokémon Lab had it implemented, but just porting that over without checking its accuracy would be pretty irresponsible.

This thread is about Gen 5 Doubles/Triples and Sky Drop + Gravity mechanics; please stay on topic!
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how do I download pokemon lab? :O

e: done that already
 
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if it's a problem w/ the game itself (i didn't realise this for oh-so-long), it should definitely just be banned; screwing w/ game mechanics just seems really unnecessary. also, disaster area, i think that's exactly what galbia was implying in his post. nintendo decided to take the ban course for this glitch, really no reason we shouldn't (i still am not sure as to whether this is a game or sim bug, there are clear options either way tho imo)

edit: those two lines were unrelated just pointing something out :)
 
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Kingler12345 said:
also, disaster area, i think that's exactly what galbia was implying in his post. nintendo decided to take the ban course for this glitch, really no reason we shouldn't (i still am not sure as to whether this is a game or sim bug, there are clear options either way tho imo)
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Disaster Area said:
program them in, ban them in formats where the glitch is possible [ban sky drop rather than gravity]
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e: I also said
Disaster Area said:
Sky Drop ban should be in place for whenever it's possible for it to break the game imo, always use the actual mechanics rather than trying to change the game to your liking.
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