Lower Tiers SM Sub-Zero Used Discussion + Resources

missangelic

missangelic

Soon you’ll see it, see it shinin’
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Contributor
Approved by zinnias
wishi.png

Image credit: Kouki Saitou for the Pokemon TCG - Dragon Majesty

SM SU Discussion Thread​


This thread is for Sun and Moon Sub-Zero Used (SM SU), which is the lowest unofficial tier on Smogon and below ZU. Back in 2017, SM SU had a cult following of speculation among lower tier players during the gen, and ZU gaining a ladder opened SU up to using the stats to create a formal tierlist. Although the tier became less popular after SS became the current generation, SM SU has seen a revival starting in 2022 through the SU Discord, where we scheduled roomtours, held a couple of tours, and expanded our resources. Now we finally have a thread to discuss the first "official" iteration of SU, share resources for the tier, and discuss metagame developments!

Altaria, Avalugg, Basculin, Beheeyem, Bouffalant, Bronzor, Chatot, Combusken, Cradily, Crustle, Drifblim, Dusclops, Electivire, Floatzel, Golem, Gourgeist-Super, Granbull, Kadabra, Kecleon, Lapras, Leafeon, Lickilicky, Lycanroc-Midnight, Mareanie, Marowak, Mawile, Meowstic-*, Mr. Mime, Muk, Pawniard, Pinsir, Poliwrath, Probopass, Purugly, Pyukumuku, Raichu, Rampardos, Rapidash, Regice, Rotom-Fan, Sandslash, Servine, Silvally (Normal), Silvally-Dark, Silvally-Dragon, Silvally-Fighting, Silvally-Ground, Silvally-Water, Simipour, Simisear, Swanna, Torterra, Toucannon, Volbeat
Pokemon/elements banned from SU: Damp Rock, Light Clay, Vigoroth
S Ranks

S​

:gourgeist:
Gourgeist-Large
:wishiwashi:
Wishiwashi

A Ranks

A+​

:fraxure:
Fraxure
:grimer-alola:
Alolan Grimer
:monferno:
Monferno
:silvally-poison:
Silvally-Poison
:simisage:
Simisage
:stunfisk:
Stunfisk

A​

:arbok:
Arbok
:duosion:
Duosion
:electabuzz:
Electabuzz
:frogadier:
Frogadier
:furfrou:
Furfrou
:huntail:
Huntail
:klang:
Klang
:swalot:
Swalot
:trevenant:
Trevenant
:zebstrika:
Zebstrika

A-​

:camerupt:
Camerupt
:electrode:
Electrode
:glaceon:
Glaceon
:grumpig:
Grumpig
:machoke:
Machoke
:meganium:
Meganium
:metang:
Metang
:shiinotic:
Shiinotic
:silvally-grass:
Silvally-Grass
:swoobat:
Swoobat
:vibrava:
Vibrava

B Ranks

B+​

:gabite:
Gabite
:gogoat:
Gogoat
:gourgeist:
Gourgeist-Small
:quilladin:
Quilladin
:scraggy:
Scraggy
:vullaby:
Vullaby

B​

:butterfree:
Butterfree
:cacturne:
Cacturne
:chimecho:
Chimecho
:dugtrio:
Dugtrio
:glalie:
Glalie
:golem-alola:
Alolan Golem
:gothitelle:
Gothitelle
:krokorok:
Krokorok
:mienfoo:
Mienfoo
:misdreavus:
Misdreavus
:oricorio:
Oricorio
:oricorio-pa
Oricorio-Pa'u
:persian:
Persian
:sawsbuck:
Sawsbuck
:silvally-electric:
Silvally-Electric
:silvally-fire:
Silvally-Fire
:silvally-rock:
Silvally-Rock
:solrock:
Solrock
:togetic:
Togetic

B-​

:dragonair:
Dragonair
:dunsparce:
Dunsparce
:dustox:
Dustox
:golduck:
Golduck
:hypno:
Hypno
:jumpluff:
Jumpluff
:lairon:
Lairon
:masquerain:
Masquerain
:murkrow:
Murkrow
:ninjask:
Ninjask
:pupitar:
Pupitar
:staryu:
Staryu
:whiscash:
Whiscash
:wigglytuff:
Wigglytuff


C Ranks

C+​

:bibarel:
Bibarel
:ditto:
Ditto
:dusknoir:
Dusknoir
:frillish:
Frillish
:lunatone:
Lunatone
:politoed:
Politoed
:seaking:
Seaking
:shuckle:
Shuckle
:silvally-psychic:
Silvally-Psychic
:walrein:
Walrein
:wormadam-trash:
Wormadam-Trash

C​

:ampharos:
Ampharos
:armaldo:
Armaldo
:bellossom:
Bellossom
:carbink:
Carbink
:corsola:
Corsola
:girafarig:
Girafarig
:gumshoos:
Gumshoos
:hakamo-o:
Hakamo-o
:illumise:
Illumise
:ivysaur:
Ivysaur
:leavanny:
Leavanny
:lopunny:
Lopunny
:luxray:
Luxray
:magmar:
Magmar
:pikachu:
Pikachu
:raticate:
Raticate
:regigigas:
Regigigas
:relicanth:
Relicanth
:silvally-flying:
Silvally-Flying
:whirlipede:
Whirlipede
:wormadam-sandy:
Wormadam-Sandy
:zweilous:
Zweilous

C-​

:fearow:
Fearow
:maractus:
Maractus
:natu:
Natu
:oranguru:
Oranguru
:phione:
Phione
Personal VR Tool
/challenge gen7zu @@@ -Altaria, -Avalugg, -Basculin, -Beheeyem, -Bouffalant, -Bronzor, -Chatot, -Combusken, -Cradily, -Crustle, -Dark Memory, -Dragon Memory, -Drifblim, -Dusclops, -Electivire, -Fighting Memory, -Floatzel, -Golem, +Golem-Alola, -Gourgeist-Super, -Granbull, -Ground Memory, -Kadabra, -Kecleon, -Komala, -Lapras, -Leafeon, -Lickilicky, -Lycanroc-Midnight, -Mareanie, -Marowak, -Mawile, -Meowstic, -Mr. Mime, -Muk, -Pawniard, -Pinsir, -Poliwrath, -Probopass, -Purugly, -Pyukumuku, -Raichu, -Rampardos, -Rapidash, -Regice, -Rotom-Fan, -Sandslash, -Servine, -Silvally, +Silvally-Bug, +Silvally-Electric, +Silvally-Fire, +Silvally-Flying, +Silvally-Grass, +Silvally-Ice, +Silvally-Poison, +Silvally-Psychic, +Silvally-Rock, -Simipour, -Simisear, -Swanna, -Torterra, -Toucannon, -Vigoroth, -Volbeat, -Water Memory, -Damp Rock, -Light Clay
Top Mons Balance by sleid
Double Poison Balance by sleid
Scraggy Balanced Offense by sleid
Demon Klang Hazard Stack by DoomBre1oom
SimiCanth HO SimiCanth HO by sleid
CM Grumpig BO by Crmpt
SD Sawsbuck Offense by DoomBre1oom
Forest's Curse HO by missangelic
Arbok + Fraxure HO by missangelic
SU Discord
Council: missangelic (SU leader), sleid, DoomBre1oom, Michael Jordan
 
Tier 0: 500 and above​
SpritePokemonActual SpeedBase SpeedEVsNatureIVsBoosts
:ninjask:Ninjask920160252Positive31+2
:huntail:Huntail89252252Positive31+4
:ninjask:Ninjask838160252Neutral31+2
:swoobat:Swoobat718114252Positive31+2
:ninjask:Ninjask690160252Positive31+1
:sawsbuck:Sawsbuck63495252Positive31+2
:ninjask:Ninjask628160252Neutral31+1
:leavanny:Levanny62292252Positive31+2
:golduck:Golduck59085252Positive31+2
:sawsbuck:Sawsbuck57895252Neutral31+2
:leavanny:Leavanny56692252Neutral31+2
:butterfree::lunatone:Butterfree, Lunatone52470252Positive31+2
:electabuzz:Electabuzz508105252Positive31+1
:dustox:Dustox50265252Positive31+2

Tier 1: 400 - 499​
SpritePokemonActual SpeedBase SpeedEVsNatureIVsBoosts
:furfrou:Furfrou499102252Positive31+1
:simisage:Simisage496101252Positive31+1
:slaking:Slaking492100252Positive31+1
:gourgeist:Gourgeist-Small48999252Positive31+1
:frogadier:Frogadier48397252Positive31+1
:ivysaur:Ivysaur48060252Positive31+2
:sawsbuck::silvally-bug::silvally-electric::silvally-fire::silvally-flying::silvally-grass::silvally-ice::silvally-poison::silvally-rock:Sawsbuck, Silvally-Bug, Silvally-Electric, Silvally-Fire, Silvally-Flying, Silvally-Grass, Silvally-Ice, Silvally-Poison, Silvally-Rock47595252Positive31+1
:oricorio::oricorio-pa'u:Oricorio, Oricorio-Pa'u46993252Positive31+1
:ninjask:Ninjask460160252Positive310
:ampharos::relicanth:Ampharos, Relicanth45855252Positive31+2
:slaking:Slaking448100252Neutral31+1
:huntail:Huntail44652252Positive31+2
:gourgeist:Gourgeist-Small44599252Neutral31+1
:golduck::misdreavus:Golduck, Misdreavus44285252Positive31+1
:electrode:Electrode438150252Positive310
:ivysaur:Ivysaur43860252Neutral31+2
:bellossom::klang:Bellossom, Klang43650252Positive31+2
:gabite:Gabite43382252Positive31+1
:monferno:Monferno43081252Positive31+1
:grumpig:Grumpig42680252Positive31+1
:ninjask:Ninjask419160252Neutral310
:ampharos::relicanth:Ampharos, Relicanth41855252Neutral31+2
:armaldo::golem-alola:Armaldo, Golem-Alola41445252Positive31+2
:krokorok:Krokorok40674252Positive31+1
:huntail:Huntail40652252Neutral31+2

Tier 2: 300 - 399​
SpritePokemonActual SpeedBase SpeedEVsNatureIVsBoosts
:bellossom::klang:Bellossom, Klang39850252Neutral31+2
:butterfree::dragonair:Butterfree, Dragonair39370252Positive31+1
:fraxure:Fraxure38467252Positive31+1
:armaldo::golem-alola:Armaldo, Golem-Alola37845252Neutral31+2
:dustox::glaceon::gothitelle::hakamo-o::mienfoo:Dustox, Glaceon, Gothitelle, Hakamo-o, Mienfoo37665252Positive31+1
:dugtrio:Dugtrio372120252Positive310
:zebstrika:Zebstrika364116252Positive310
:persian:Persian361115252Positive310
:whiscash:Whiscash36060252Positive31+1
:swoobat:Swoobat359114252Positive310
:dragonair:Dragonair35870252Neutral31+1
:jumpluff:Jumpluff350110252Positive310
:fraxure:Fraxure34967252Neutral31+1
:trevenant:Trevenant34856252Positive31+1
:dustox::glaceon::hakamo-o::mienfoo:Dustox, Glaceon, Hakamo-o, Mienfoo34365252Neutral31+1
:electabuzz:Electabuzz339105252Positive310
:furfrou:Furfrou333102252Positive310
:simisage:Simisage331101252Positive310
:slaking:Slaking328100252Positive310
:whiscash:Whiscash32860252Neutral31+1
:bellossom:Bellossom32750252Positive31+1
:gourgeist:Gourgeist-Small32699252Positive310
:frogadier::raticate:Frogadier, Raticate32297252Positive310
:scraggy:Scraggy32148252Positive31+1
:sawsbuck::silvally-bug::silvally-electric::silvally-fire::silvally-flying::silvally-grass::silvally-ice::silvally-poison::silvally-rock:Sawsbuck, Silvally-Bug, Silvally-Electric, Silvally-Fire, Silvally-Flying, Silvally-Grass, Silvally-Ice, Silvally-Poison, Silvally-Rock31795252Positive310
:trevenant:Trevenant31656252Neutral31+1
:oricorio::oricorio-pa'u:Oricorio, Oricorio-Pa'u31393252Positive310
:leavanny:Leavanny31192252Positive310
:golem-alola:Golem-Alola31045252Positive31+1
:lumineon:Lumineon30991252Positive310

Tier 3: 200 - 299​
SpritePokemonActual SpeedBase SpeedEVsNatureIVsBoosts
:slaking:Slaking299100252Neutral310
:bellossom:Bellossom29850252Neutral31+1
:golduck::misdreavus:Golduck, Misdreavus29585252Positive310
:scraggy:Scraggy29248252Neutral31+1
:sawsbuck:Sawsbuck28995252Neutral310
:gabite:Gabite28982252Positive310
:monferno:Monferno28781252Positive310
:arbok::glalie::grumpig:Arbok, Glalie, Grumpig28480252Positive310
:smeargle:Smeargle27375252Positive310
:krokorok:Krokorok27174252Positive310
:golduck:Golduck26985252Neutral310
:bibarel:Bibarel26571252Positive310
:butterfree::dragonair::lunatone:Butterfree, Dragonair, Lunatone26270252Positive310
:monferno:Monferno26181252Neutral310
:arbok:Arbok25980252Neutral310
:fraxure:Fraxure25667252Positive310
:dustox::glaceon::gothitelle::hakamo-o::mienfoo:Dustox, Glaceon, Gothitelle, Hakamo-o, Mienfoo25165252Positive310
:ivysaur::whiscash:Ivysaur, Whiscash24060252Positive310
:dragonair::lunatone:Dragonair, Lunatone23970252Neutral310
:fraxure:Fraxure23367252Neutral310
:trevenant:Trevenant23256252Positive310
:glaceon::hakamo-o::mienfoo:Glaceon, Hakamo-o, Mienfoo22965252Neutral310
:ampharos::cacturne::relicanth::swalot:Ampharos, Cacturne, Relicanth, Swalot21955252Positive310
:huntail:Huntail22352252Positive310
:ivysaur::whiscash:Ivysaur, Whiscash21960252Neutral310
:bellossom::klang::metang:Bellossom, Klang, Metang21850252Positive310
:scraggy:Scraggy21448252Positive310
:trevenant:Trevenant21156252Neutral310
:ampharos::cacturne::relicanth::swalot:Ampharos, Cacturne, Relicanth, Swalot20955252Neutral310
:armaldo::golem-alola::gumshoos:Armaldo, Golem-Alola, Gumshoos20745252Positive310
:illumise::misdreavus:Illumise, Misdreavus206850Neutral310
:huntail:Huntail20352252Neutral310
:gabite:Gabite200820Neutral310

Tier 4: 100 - 199​
SpritePokemonActual SpeedBase SpeedEVsNatureIVsBoosts
:bellossom::klang:Bellossom, Klang19950252Neutral310
:monferno:Monferno198810Neutral310
:meganium:Meganium196800Neutral310
:scraggy:Scraggy19548252Neutral310
:armaldo::golem-alola::gumshoos:Armaldo, Golem-Alola, Gumshoos18945252Neutral310
:camerupt:Camerupt17940252Neutral310
:politoed::solrock::vibrava:Politoed, Solrock, Vibrava176700Neutral310
:gourgeist:Gourgeist-Large174690Neutral310
:gogoat:Gogoat172680Neutral310
:chimecho::gothitelle:Chimecho, Gothitelle166650Neutral310
:vullaby:Vullaby156600Neutral310
:quilladin:Quilladin150570Neutral310
:trevenant:Trevenant148560Neutral310
:ampharos::cacturne::relicanth::swalot:Ampharos, Cacturne, Relicanth, Swalot146550Neutral310
:metang:Metang136500Neutral310
:scraggy:Scraggy132480Neutral310
:dunsparce::golem-alola::machoke:Dunsparce, Golem-Alola, Machoke126450Neutral310
:camerupt::togetic:Camerupt, Togetic116400Neutral310
:corsola:Corsola106350Neutral310
:stunfisk:Stunfisk100320Neutrall310

Tier 5: 99 and below​
SpritePokemonActual SpeedBase SpeedEVsNatureIVsBoosts
:duosion::shiinotic::wishiwashi:Duosion, Shiinotic, Wishiwashi96300Neutral310
:grimer-alola:Grimer-Alola86250Neutral310
:wishiwashi:Wishiwashi58300Negative00
:shuckle:Shuckle46150Neutral310
Utility Roles

Entry Hazards
Stealth Rock
:camerupt::dugtrio::gabite::golem-alola::metang::monferno::solrock::stunfisk: | :armaldo::bastiodon::bibarel::carbink::corsola::dunsparce::lairon::lunatone::pupitar::relicanth::shuckle::torkoal::wigglytuff::wormadam-sandy::wormadam-trash:
Spikes
:cacturne::glalie::quilladin: | :maractus::whirlipede:
Toxic Spikes
:frogadier: | :whirlipede:
Sticky Web
| :leavanny::masquerain::shuckle:

Hazard Removal/Prevention
Defog
:chimecho::oricorio::oricorio-pa'u::silvally-electric::silvally-fire::silvally-grass::silvally-poison::silvally-rock::swoobat::togetic::vibrava::vullaby: | :dustox::fearow::illumise::lumineon::ninjask::silvally-bug::silvally-flying::silvally-ice::silvally-psychic:
Rapid Spin
| :armaldo::staryu::torkoal:
Magic Bounce
| :natu:

Item Disruption
Knock Off (offensive)
:grimer-alola::krokorok::machoke::mienfoo::persian::scraggy: | :armaldo::leavanny::pikachu:
Knock Off (utility)
:chimecho::simisage::swoobat::vullaby: | :armaldo::ivysaur::leavanny::phione::regigigas::seaking::shuckle::wigglytuff:
Trick / Switcheroo
:arbok::chimecho::glalie::gothitelle::gourgeist::grumpig::misdreavus::swoobat::trevenant: | :dusknoir::girafarig::hypno::lopunny::oranguru:
Sticky Hold
:swalot:

Misc. Utility
Encore
:cacturne::machoke::monferno::swalot::togetic: | :golduck::illumise::jumpluff::lopunny::pikachu::politoed::shuckle::walrein:
Taunt
:chimecho::electrode::fraxure::frogadier::glalie::gothitelle::grumpig::krokorok::mienfoo::misdreavus::monferno::oricorio::oricorio-pa'u::persian::quilladin::scraggy::simisage::swoobat::vullaby: | :bibarel::hakamo-o::hypno::murkrow::oranguru:


Offensive Roles

Attackers
Physical Attackers
:arbok::cacturne::camerupt::dugtrio::fraxure::furfrou::gabite::glalie::gogoat::golem-alola::gourgeist::grimer-alola::huntail::klang::krokorok::machoke::meganium::metang::mienfoo::monferno::persian::quilladin::sawsbuck::scraggy::silvally-fire::silvally-grass::simisage::solrock::swalot::trevenant: | :armaldo::bibarel::dragonair::dunsparce::dusknoir::fearow::gumshoos::hakamo-o::hypno::jumpluff::lairon::leavanny::lopunny::murkrow::ninjask::pupitar::raticate::regigigas::relicanth::silvally-bug::silvally-flying::silvally-ice::silvally-psychic::slaking::whiscash::zweilous:
Special Attackers
:butterfree::cacturne::camerupt::chimecho::duosion::electabuzz::electrode::frogadier::glaceon::glalie::gothitelle::grumpig::huntail::meganium::misdreavus::monferno::oricorio::oricorio-pa'u::shiinotic::silvally-electric::silvally-fire::silvally-grass::simisage::stunfisk::swalot::swoobat::togetic::zebstrika: | :ampharos::bellossom::bibarel::carbink::dustox::girafarig::golduck::hypno::lumineon::maractus::masquerain::phione::pikachu::politoed::silvally-ice::walrein::whiscash::wigglytuff:
Mixed Attackers
:cacturne::camerupt::glalie::huntail::silvally-electric::silvally-fire::silvally-grass::simisage::swalot::wishiwashi: | :pikachu::silvally-flying::silvally-ice::silvally-psychic:

Choice Item Users
Choice Band
:fraxure::furfrou::golem-alola::monferno::trevenant: | :fearow::gumshoos::lairon::ninjask::raticate::relicanth::zweilous:
Choice Specs
:camerupt::electabuzz::electrode::frogadier::glaceon::grumpig::monferno::oricorio::oricorio-pa'u::swoobat::wishiwashi: | :magmar:
Choice Scarf
:arbok::electabuzz::furfrou::gabite::glaceon::glalie::golem-alola::gourgeist::grumpig::krokorok::mienfoo::misdreavus::monferno::sawsbuck::simisage: | :fearow::golduck::magmar::raticate:

Setup Users
Acid Armor / Iron Defense
:duosion: | :carbink:
Agility / Autotomize / Rock Polish
:camerupt::golem-alola::solrock: | :ampharos::armaldo::lairon::lunatone::relicanth:
Belly Drum
| :hypno::magmar:
Bulk Up
:gogoat::machoke::mienfoo::monferno::quilladin::scraggy: | :hakamo-o:
Calm Mind
:chimecho::duosion::gothitelle::grumpig::misdreavus::oricorio::oricorio-pa'u::swoobat: | :girafarig::golduck::hypno::lunatone::oranguru:
Competitive
:gothitelle: | :wigglytuff:
Curse
:grimer-alola::swalot: | :bibarel:
Dragon Dance
:fraxure::scraggy: | :dragonair::hakamo-o::pupitar::whiscash:
Hone Claws
:dugtrio::gabite:
Nasty Plot
:misdreavus::monferno::persian::simisage::togetic: | :girafarig::hypno::oranguru::pikachu:
Power-Up Punch
:swalot: | :dusknoir::regigigas:
Quiver Dance
:butterfree: | :bellossom::dustox::masquerain::wormadam-trash:
Swords Dance
:cacturne::fraxure::meganium::mienfoo::monferno::sawsbuck::silvally-electric::silvally-fire::silvally-grass::silvally-poison::silvally-rock: | :armaldo::bibarel::hakamo-o::jumpluff::leavanny::ninjask::raticate::silvally-bug::silvally-flying::silvally-ice::silvally-psychic:
Z-Celebrate/Forest's Curse/Trick-or-Treat
:glaceon::gourgeist::trevenant:
Misc.. Setup Users
:chimecho: (Cosmic Power), :huntail: (Shell Smash), :klang: (Shift Gear)

Priority Users
Aqua Jet
| :armaldo::bibarel:
Bullet Punch
:machoke::metang:
Extreme Speed
| :dragonair::pikachu:
Fake Out
:mienfoo::monferno::persian: | :lopunny::pikachu:
Ice Shard
:glalie:
Mach Punch
:monferno: | :magmar:
Shadow Sneak
:gourgeist::grimer-alola: | :dusknoir:
Sucker Punch
:arbok::cacturne::dugtrio::furfrou::huntail::girafarig::maractus::raticate::slaking: | :murkrow:
Vacuum Wave
:monferno:

Trapping
Infestation
:duosion::stunfisk::swalot: | :wormadam-trash:
Magnet Pull
:golem-alola:
Pursuit
:dugtrio::grimer-alola::krokorok::metang: | :gumshoos::raticate::slaking:


Hyper Offensive Roles
note: Damp Rock and Light Clay are both banned

Self-KO
Explosion
:camerupt::duosion::electrode::glalie::golem-alola::gourgeist::solrock: | :carbink:
Memento
:dugtrio::grimer-alola::misdreavus: | :dusknoir::jumpluff:

Sun
Sun Setters
:carbink::dugtrio::golem-alola::illumise::lopunny::persian::solrock::shuckle:
Sun Beneficaries
:sawsbuck: | :bellossom::ivysaur::leavanny::maractus:

Trick Room
Trick Room Setters
:chimecho::duosion::gourgeist::misdreavus::solrock::trevenant: | :carbink::dusknoir::oranguru:
Trick Room Beneficiaries
:cacturne::camerupt::duosion::trevenant::wishiwashi: | :gumshoos::oranguru:


Defensive Roles

Walls
Physical Walls
:chimecho::duosion::golem-alola::gourgeist:-Large::klang::machoke::metang::misdreavus::monferno::quilladin::shiinotic::solrock::stunfisk::swalot::togetic::vibrava::vullaby::wishiwashi: | :carbink::corsola::frillish::hakamo-o::ivysaur::pupitar::wormadam-sandy::wormadam-trash:
Special Walls
:duosion::golem-alola::grimer-alola::grumpig::klang::meganium::metang::monferno::quilladin::shiinotic::stunfisk::swalot::togetic::vibrava::wishiwashi: | :carbink::dustox::frillish::hakamo-o::ivysaur::politoed::pupitar::regigigas::seaking::wormadam-sandy::wormadam-trash::zweilous:
Mixed Walls
:duosion::golem-alola::klang::meganium::metang::monferno::quilladin::shiinotic::stunfisk::swalot::togetic::vibrava::wishiwashi: | :carbink::dustox::frillish::hakamo-o::ivysaur::pupitar::regigigas::zweilous:

Pivots
Parting Shot
:silvally-electric::silvally-fire::silvally-grass::silvally-poison::silvally-rock: | :silvally-bug::silvally-flying::silvally-ice::silvally-psychic:
U-turn (Fast/Offensive)
:frogadier::furfrou::mienfoo::monferno::oricorio::oricorio-pa'u::persian::silvally-electric:silvally-fire::silvally-grass::silvally-poison::silvally-rock::swoobat::wishiwashi: | :fearow::gumshoos::jumpluff::ninjask::raticate::silvally-bug::silvally-flying::silvally-ice::silvally-psychic:
U-turn (Slow/Defensive)
:silvally-electric::silvally-grass::silvally-poison::vibrava::vullaby::wishiwashi: | :dustox::illumise::lumineon::masquerain::natu::phione:
Volt Switch (Fast/Offensive)
:electabuzz::electrode::golem-alola::zebstrika: | :pikachu:
Volt Switch (Slow/Defensive)
:golem-alola::klang: | :ampharos::luxray:
Regenerator
:duosion::mienfoo: | :corsola:

Anti-Setup
Clear Smog
:grimer-alola:
Dragon Tail
:meganium: | :dragonair::hakamo-o::zweilous:
Haze
:politoed::seaking: | :murkrow:
Roar/Whirlwind
:camerupt::gabite::gogoat::golem-alola::grumpig::quilladin::silvally-poison::vullaby: | :dustox::hakamo-o::lairon::zweilous:
Imposter
:ditto:

Status
Burn
Will-O-Wisp
:camerupt::gourgeist::misdreavus::monferno::solrock::trevenant: | :dusknoir::frillish::magmar:
Lava Plume / Scald / Flame Body
:camerupt::stunfisk::wishiwashi: | :bibarel::corsola::frillish::golduck::magmar::lumineon::phione::politoed::seaking::staryu::whiscash:
Paralysis
Thunder Wave / Glare
:chimecho::duosion::electabuzz::electrode::furfrou::gothitelle::grumpig::klang::misdreavus::sawsbuck::shiinotic::silvally-electric::silvally-grass::silvally-poison::stunfisk::togetic: | :bibarel::dunsparce::illumise::lopunny::murkrow::regigigas::staryu::wigglytuff::zweilous:
Discharge / Body Slam / Static
:electabuzz::electrode::stunfisk: | :ampharos::dunsparce::pikachu:
Sleep
Sleep Powder
:butterfree: | :bellossom::ivysaur::jumpluff:
Spore
:shiinotic:
Hypnosis
:persian: | :hypno:
Yawn
:camerupt::chimecho::stunfisk::swalot::togetic: | :relicanth::walrein:
Poison
Toxic (common users)
:camerupt::chimecho::dugtrio::duosion::electabuzz::electrode::furfrou::gabite::golem-alola::gourgeist::grumpig::klang::krokorok::meganium::metang::mienfoo::monferno::solrock::stunfisk::swalot::vullaby::wishiwashi: | :corsola::dustox::illumise::lumineon::pupitar::seaking::staryu::walrein::wormadam-sandy::wormadam-trash:
Poison Touch
:grimer-alola:
Gunk Shot
:arbok::simisage::swalot:
Poison Fang
:grimer-alola::silvally-poison:
Poison Jab
:fraxure::grimer-alola::machoke::mienfoo::scraggy::trevenant:
Sludge Bomb
:shiinotic::stunfisk::swalot: | :bellossom::dustox::ivysaur:
Leech Seed
:gourgeist::meganium::quilladin::shiinotic::trevenant: | :ivysaur::jumpluff::maractus:
Absorbers
Magic Guard
:duosion:
Natural Cure
:trevenant: | :staryu:
Rest (common users)
:grimer-alola::klang::machoke::scraggy::swalot::wishiwashi: | :dragonair::hakamo-o::pupitar::seaking::zweilous:
Shed Skin
:arbok::scraggy: | :dragonair::pupitar:

Clerics
Aromatherapy/Heal Bell
:chimecho::gothitelle::grumpig::meganium::misdreavus::togetic: | :ampharos::jumpluff::lopunny::phione::wigglytuff:
Healing Wish
:chimecho: | :lopunny:
Wish
:chimecho: | :wigglytuff:
 
Last edited:
Sharing my thoughts on huntail, fraxure and swoobat before the council votes.

:huntail: Huntail :huntail: I mean this thing has to go. It just wins games and is a completely unhealthy presence in the meta. It can run either physical or special and it has barely any checks. Nothing can switch into this mon except very few, niche mons and it makes other mons in the meta just unviable.

:swoobat: Swoobat :Swoobat: this mon im more neutral towards. Sure it can sweep games but it doesnt do that as well as huntail does a lot of the time. Dont get me wrong its still a great mon but idt its as pressing as huntail. That being said, this mon has an insane speed tier and simple cm just wins games for you that you normally wouldn’t. I dont think its a healthy presence in the metagame so i think the bat has to go aswell.

:fraxure: Fraxure :fraxure: I can see how fraxure could be thought as a problem in the current meta, but i think the pros of this mon outweigh the cons. Sure dd can run away with some games but its also a metagame staple that imo increases diversity in the builder. I think thie mon is a fine presence in the meta compared to the two mons mentioned above but i could see it being broken in the future.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top