small questions regarding some new things

harle1012000

Hi, new to smogon (well, at least 1st time poster, been lurking for ahile), but anyways, with the advent of D/P there's been alot of things that hav just confounded me. I tried to check the topics regarding D/P but at over 20 pages each it was hard to find just the right info I wanted. Even then I got contradictory statements. So I just wanted to ask a few small questions:

1. Do things like Light Clay etc. require the user to be out the whole time to keep the effect? For example if I have a Kingdra use Rain Dance while holding Damp Rock, does that Rain Dance effect last for 8 turns even if he switches out immediately?

2. Thinking about making a Trick Room team. I have Slowbro and Dusknoir on it so far (adding a No Armor Machamp too and maybe a Miltank or Clefable for support/utility), but I'm worried about what MS I should give them that still lets them tank effectively. Also, will Parasect be useful on a Trick Room team. Crappy typing might be balanced by fastest Sporer and Aromatherapist in the game.

3. What's a good counter to teams that abuse Weather Effects?

4. What's a good Heracross counter?

Alright guys, thnx in advance.
 
1. Not sure on that. Ask in the item research thread for clarification.

2. Parasect is still pretty weak, even if you get it some Trick Room support. For a similar but sturdier option, consider Tangrowth as it learns Sleep Powder. I'm not keen on Trick Room teams for 1 v 1, but try to make your team benefit, rather than rely on it.

3. Depends which weather it is. The question is a bit too general to answer completely.

4. Gliscor is the best Heracross counter. Weezing isn't bad either. Other than those two, prediction is the key to beating Heracross.
 
It's in the research thread ... you can switch out of your Light Clay/Damp Rock/etc holder and the effect will still last the extra turns.

Miltank is too fast for trick room imo, Blissey is still the superior choice. If you want spore, Breloom has it too and can still attack. He also happens along with Torterra to resist all of Tyranitar's moves and can hurt alot with Mach Punch.

Sand teams should be most common, given Tyranitar and Hippo. There's a discussion on sand somewhere here. I don't thin you'll see many Hail teams because of Abomasnow's problems, and trick room messes with Chlorophyll/Swift Swim abusers on sun/rain teams.
 
3. The best Sunny Day counter is a Golduck with Cloud Nine, a Water attack and Ice Beam. For Rain Dance, I recommend a Quagsire with Water Absorb. A Flygon or Gliscor are probably some of your best bets for Sandstorm. Hail has a lot of counters, but pretty much any defensible Pokémon with a Fire attack and an Electric attack would be helpful.

4. Heracross is GameFreak's joke on the Leftovers-abusing, counter-loving, switch-happy Smogon community. There are so few "counters" to it that it's not even funny. You can either include a Gliscor on every team you make, or you can try to design your team so that it's less based around switching by giving your Pokémon some disabling and other support moves that they can use. Destiny Bond's not a bad choice for getting rid of Heracross.
 
Golduck is far from being the best counter to Sunny Day users. Most of the effective Sunny Day users are Grass types and if they use their STAB moves (outside of Solarbeam) or Sleep Powder (which is usually the best idea before attempting to set up the sun) when Golduck comes in, he's screwed.

Grass types that use Sunny Day aren't just restricted to using it for a no charge Solarbeam now. Tangrowth can use Power Whip, using the sun simply for a speed boost. Leafeon can use it for status protection.

Same with Rain/Quagsire. Ludicolo, Manaphy and to a lesser extent Kingdra all slap him around quite badly.
 
I don't know how many weather-based teams you've built, but most Grass-types on Sunny Day team will be using Solarbeam as their Grass attack. I am perfectly aware of the new options available to them, but if they're not using Solarbeam then they're not making the most out of Sunny Day. If a Leafeon or Tangrowth comes out, you know not to bring out your Golduck. The Golduck is still a great asset against a Sunny Day team because it cancels out the boost Fire-types get and allows you a full-strength Water attack. It's not bad against most Sunny Day Grass-types, either, because even if they use Solarbeam on your switch, they have to charge, and next turn they don't get a Chlorophyll boost.

Also, if you think your opponent will be using Sleep Powder, wait a round to switch to Golduck. Prediction is always a factor. Don't we use Sleep Clause around here?

As for Quagsire: Again, it's not a perfect solution, but it's a valuable asset against a Rain Dance team.

By the way, Phuquoph, if you don't have better ideas, your criticism lacks teeth. What would you use instead?
 
Now there are decent Grass moves, sunny day users are no longer restricted to Solarbeam to hit hard. The advantage of Grass Knot/Power Whip/Energy Ball is that you can use them if Sunny Day isn't up, and it stops you from being a free Tyranitar/Hippowdon switch in. So, Solarbeam *isn't* a good move to use any more, because there are now alternatives to it for the first time.

Salamence/Fire types handle most Sunny Day users effectively, as long as you're smart enough to switch in something to take Sleep Powder first.

From experience I'd say Golduck is useful against Sunny Day users in Advance when there was no risk of a move outside Solarbeam that can damage it, but now that won't always be the case.
 
I think you're right about it not being as good a counter as it once was against a Sunny Day team, but if I knew I was going to be up against a Sunny Day team, I'd still probably bring one.

Let's assume for the moment that Golduck will be useless against your Grass opponents. It's still a great asset against your Fire opponents because almost all of them can (and will, on a Sunny Day team) carry Solarbeam in D/P. If you switch in on them with any other Water-, Rock- or Ground-type (other than Hippowdon or Tyranitar), WHAM! Solarbeam! Switch in with a fast Golduck and you have a free chance to Surf it.

If you want to cover your opponent's Grass-types that don't have Solarbeam, slap a Fire-type with Flash Fire on your team.
 
I'd use whatever team I was battling with at the time. I wouldn't expect to use one or even two Pokemon to beat the strategy of the entire opposing team. There is no specific counter to any weather team since they can have such a wide variety of Pokemon, each with different counters. You consider each one on an individual basis, rather than as a whole.
 
harle1012000 said:
3. What's a good counter to teams that abuse Weather Effects?
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The thing is, he didn't ask for advice on how to ignore weather effects. He asked for advice on how to counter them. I answered him to the best of my ability. If he was looking for snide superiority, he could have PMed one of us directly.

EDIT: In fact, I could have answered his/her question better. If you want a Pokémon that does well against all four kinds of weather, Golduck will give you the best shot overall. It won't help you that much against Rain Dance teams, but it'll be an asset against Sunny Day, Sandstorm and Hail teams. I'd give it Surf, Ice Beam, Cross Chop/Focus Blast (for Ice and Steel types) and maybe Calm Mind or some other support move.
 
Footnote said:
If he was looking for snide superiority, he could have PMed one of us directly.
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I thought I told you to knock it off. Do this again and it won't be a warning.
 
Good Lord man, lighten up.

I actually go through my teams and check how much they suffer from SandStream (since it's the most common weather condition) being activated. I even post the effects in my threat analysis. Hardly ignoring it.
 
Hey guys thanks for the responses. It really helped me out. I decided to avoid Trick Room mainly because I do want Miltank on my team and it would only hurt. The idea about the weather thing is VERY awesome though, and I'd love to find some way to abuse it later down the line. As for Herry, I guess I sorta expected it. I'm sticking with Dusknoir though, since I just like him better (personal preference and 2 immunities and 2 weaknesses is good IMO for a tank). Also, one last question:

I'm looking for a fast poke that can hit hard (basic sweeper really) and I'm stuck between CBvile and Scarf-raptor. CBvile has higher base speed so I can focus on using CB, but Scarf-raptor has that nifty Intimidate.

Heck, with Garchomp and Salamence running everywhere I'm thinking maybe even Ice Shard on a Mamoswine over these guys but his weaknesses (and the fact that Miltank and Machamp do everything else he does) sorta limits his use.

Anyways, thanks again guys and I appreciate all of your input.
 
Phuquoph said:
Good Lord man, lighten up.

I actually go through my teams and check how much they suffer from SandStream (since it's the most common weather condition) being activated. I even post the effects in my threat analysis. Hardly ignoring it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're right. It's a stress thing, and it really isn't your fault at all. I think you're right about not building your team around a strategy an opponent may or may not have. But maybe he's planning on battling in a small group that abuses weather effects, you know? So, I was trying to give some advice about that.

Sorry for taking a shot like that. You clearly know what you're doing and I wasn't implying that your advice was invalid in any way.
 
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