So, which of us is the real puppet? (OU RMT)

Gen 6, you've been so difficult. Coming from gen 4, I'm used to much lower power-levels. There were only a hand full of pokemon that could be called threats so as long as your team could answer those you were mostly fine. Power creep after power creep; however, and it seems the number of threats has increased. In a way, yes, this has diversified the game, allowing people to make teams with a wider range of threats, but... I suppose that didn't really apply to me. I always liked playing the odd teams. People would say my choices would lose my team momentum or that it simply wasn't a good idea, but I could see the potential of my pokemon. Now, in gen 6, it's an absolute storm of power. Against BP, Stall, Bulky Offense, and DeoSharp HO teams, it feels like a single misstep can lead to defeat. It's more difficult for me, as a self-proclaimed low-tier hero to make the teams I want to make, but I feel it's close. After a decent amount of testing and building I've found something I can work with, but have reached the limits of my team-building skills alone. Please support me and my team!



It all started with these two. A puppet and his master.
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I had decided to make a bunch of teams one day, just to experiment with as many ideas as possible, and this combination stood out. Their monstrous attack stats and the respective roles they played uniquely meshed together and I was able to pressure many team with just these two alone. They are the beginngs of this team and hopefully they will see it to the end.


Then a woman came between them.
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Y'know what a couple bulky guys with big stats don't enjoy? Status. Y'know what pokemon without recovery enjoy? Wishpassing. Sylveon helps cover some weaknesses(dragon, fighting, and dark) and performs roles key to these two's success. Her Hyper Voice is also a decent weapon that works well to keep her afloat.



The Puppet could not win her heart without a voice, but she was always more interested in the puppet than the performer behind it. In his advances to the woman to win her heart he earned the contempt of another suitor.
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Hazards, they're annoying, especially for a Kyurem-B and Banette. Sylveon doesn't exactly counter-act them and finds them a hindrance when trying to quickly support her team. Latios keeps up the pressure while also effectively removing hazards. It was, honestly, a Latias for a short time, but Bisharp quickly made her too difficult to use effectively, making an hp-fighting Latios the best choice.


One day, the Puppet's master challenged the suitor to a duel for the young woman's love. Hearing of this, her father arrived to watch over this duel and agrees to give her hand to the winner.
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Sylveon has decent bulk, but can not take all the brunt by herself. Landorus-T does well to cripple Physical Sweepers and take most of their attacks. Stealth Rocks and U-turn are also valuable abilities for supporting the team by pivoting and making switches more painful, especially for the fearsome flying types who take more damage from it.



The duel begins and they are an even match, but none could predict what would happen next. A great disaster, spreading fire throughout the city, traps the two men absorbed in a fierce passion. The father has her daughter escape as she carries the puppet with her and is killed as he attempts to end the duel. The woman is now alone, but the puppet is finally free and has her to himself. It could be said that the puppet, having captivated the woman in the first place, orchestrated their demise, but who can say? It is a puppet, right?
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Finally, Heatran helps solidify the team, correcting some weaknesses in typing while having its weaknesses already covered. By adding a Choice Scarf it becomes a strong edition, aiding in taking down pokemon that out-speed Latios and helps keep the overall speed of the team higher.


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While Latios was very strong, it couldn't stop everything and had some redundancy with Kyurem-Black. Zapdos can take on almost everything that gave this team trouble while continuing to defog.


Liek if u crai evry tiem QQ

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Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Terravolt
Nature: Mild
252SpA/4SpD/252Spe
-Fusion Bolt
-Ice Beam
-Earth Power
-Roost

Cube has been, honestly, one of my favorite pokemon to use. His stats are ridiculous when you can abuse them, but he's held back by his typing and slightly restricted by his move-pool. After playing with the Life Orb enough the loss of life really made Cube susceptible to revenge kills and put extra stress on Sylveon. I had to go with Roost. At the same time I realized Mega Banette can handle the only Special Wall capable of stopping a Cube, namely Chansey, and moved to a more normal, Specially-oriented mixed LO set. It's obvious enough to say this guy punches holes through stall teams, especially when paired with a Mega Banette, and destroys the walls of balanced teams.


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Banette @ Banettite
Ability: Insomnia/Prankster
Nature: Adamant
252HP/252Atk/4SpD
-Knock Off
-Will-O-Wisp
-Taunt
-Destiny Bond

I get a lot of crap from OU Chat on PS about using Mega Banette, but it has been working wonders for me. With Knock Off and Taunt Banette disassembles the core of BP, leaving the rest of the team to clean up. Stall won't enjoy those two moves either as their items and support moves are stolen from them, making them all bait for the Puppet's Master. With Will-O-Wisp and Destiny Bond Banette becomes a revenge killer and set-up sweeper's worst nightmare. All in all, Banette's functions are perfect for giving a Wall Breaker the opportunity to break down the paltry defenses awaiting them. A few extra benefits are things like blocking rapid spin and scouting for moves, but I see these as just icing on the cake for this fairly impressive Anti-Support. Without Protect, the hardest part of using Mega-Banette is getting him to Mega Evolve. Usually a wall or fighting type act as great switch ins.


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Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
Nature: Bold
244HP/252Def/12Spe
-Hyper Voice
-Heal Bell
-Wish
-Protect

If I called Mega Banette an Anti-Support, then Sylveon is obviously the support. Burns and Paralyze can cripple this team, but with Sylveon they are slightly less worrisome. There are other Clerics in the tier and beyond, but I chose Sylveon for her mix of wishpass and Offensive pressure with Hyper Voice along with the benfits of her typing, with the only negative thus far being two steel weaknesses being covered with later additions. It can be difficult to keep her in with all of the fairy hate out there and fast taunters, but I can't imagine this team without something to protect them all, particularly with a fine, feminine touch.


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Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Bold
248HP/244Def/16Spe
-Thunderbolt
-Heat Wave
-Defog
-Roost

With the new changes to the team, Zapdos is the well-suited Physical Wall for the team. The extremely necessary hazard removal, the counter power it has to OU's top threats, and instant recovery make this legend last. Common counters to defog, namely Bisharp and Defiant Thundurus, don't make Zapdos so much as flinch. Pokemon that would treat Zapdos as set up bait either get revenge killed or destiny bonded by Lando-T and Mega-nette respectively.


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Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Jolly
252Atk/4Def/252Spe
-Earthquake
-Knock Off
-U-turn
-Stone Edge

The team's revenger, turner, and intimidate spammer. Providing revenge kills is great, but so many pokemon can do that. Lando-T is the revenge-killer for this team because it maintains the debilitating, disruptive nature of the team. Intimidates and Knock Offs aren't fun for any team and U-turn gives the team much needed momentum. Edgequake is great because the only pokemon ever seen in OU that resist it are incredibly rare. Thus you'll rarely be in a position where you can't deal a hefty amount of damage off of his 100+ BP coverage moves, 80+ BP Support moves, and 145 Base Attack.


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Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Nature: Calm
252HP/4SpA/252SpD
-Lava Plume
-Taunt
-Stealth Rocks
-Protect

Now a Special Wall, Heatran supplies support through moves and typing that rounds up the team. Heatran has an easier time laying rocks than its predecessor and has the moves to scout, stall, and pressure the opposition. Stealth Rocks makes easier kills for the entire team and lures out defoggers who make easy switches for the rest of the team. Lava Plume provides good pressure and burn for any non-fire physical threats that feel like switching into the magma incarnate. Taunt increases the team's effectiveness versus stall, assisting in the match up versus Clefable and Sylveon. Protect scouts out moves and gives you leftovers recovery.
 
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S Rank
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Aegislash - Heatran can simply switch in and throw out lava plumes against any of Aegislash's sets bar Weakness Policy which is easily revenge killed by Lando-T.
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Bisharp - Zapdos is the best answer to bisharp. Outspeeding, surviving its hits and KO'ing after Life Orb recoil.
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Charizard (Mega-X) - Lando-T can come in on ZardX, weaken it with intimidate, and usually survive its STAB and KO'ing back with EQ. Lando-T won't even take a hit versus bulky varients. Non-EQ ZardX are also easy switch ins for Heatran.
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Charizard (Mega-Y) - Sadly, ZardY requires either a great prediction switch into Lando-T or a revenge kill. M-Banette can destiny bond if it has already mega-evolved.
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Deoxys-D - Banette Mega-Evolves and uses Knock Off. If Red Card hope for a good switch(Cube or Lando-T preferred), otherwise Taunt if not already taunted in which case Knock Off for the kill.
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Deoxys-S - Pretty much the same strategy against lead varients as with Deo-D. Revenge Killer varients are checked by Banette as well.
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Landorus -
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Thundurus

A+ Rank
Azumarill
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Excadrill
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Garchomp
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Greninja
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Gyarados (Mega)
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Keldeo
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Kyurem-B
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Mawile (Mega)
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Pinsir (Mega)
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Scizor (Mega)
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Talonflame
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Tyranitar (Mega)
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Venusaur (Mega)

A Rank
Clefable
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Dragonite
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Ferrothorn
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Gengar
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Heatran
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Hippowdon
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Landorus-T
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Latios
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Manaphy
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Mandibuzz
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Rotom-W
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Terrakion
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Tyranitar
A- Rank
Chansey
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Garchomp (Mega)
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Gyarados
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Latias
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Mamoswine
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Politoed
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Scizor
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Skarmory
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Zapdos

B+ Rank
Breloom
Conkeldurr
Diggersby
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Gardevoir (Mega)
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Gliscor
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Kabutops
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Manectric (Mega)
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Medicham (Mega)
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Raikou
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Scolipede
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Slowbro

B Rank
Chesnaught
Heracross (Mega)
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Kingdra
448.png
Lucario
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Mew
195.png
Quagsire
245.png
Suicune
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Sylveon
B- Rank
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Absol (Mega)
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Alakazam
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Alakazam (Mega)
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Amoonguss
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Blastoise (Mega)
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Crawdaunt
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Gothitelle
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Rhyperior
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Staraptor
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Thundurus-T
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Victini
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Volcarona
 
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Hey HeliosEchi, I'm here to rate your team. Honestly Mega Banette is a mega that is rarely seen so I was intrigued to see how you used it. The team looks pretty solid but you have a huge Azumarill weakness as nothing can reliably swap into it and do damage back. Bisharp also is a pain for the team as don't have much wanting to swap in and at +2 Heatran gets demolished by a Sucker Punch. I suggest changing Latios to Zapdos in order to have a Defogger not afraid of Bisharp and something that can reliably KO both Bisharp and Azumarill. 248 HP is so that you take less damage from hazards upon the switch in, 16 Speed allows you to out speed Adamant Bisharp, and 244 Def are so you can handle things like Talonflame, Azumarill, Bisharp, and Mega Pinsir among other threats. Thunderbolt is the STAB of choice and Heat Wave gives coverage over Steel types like Bisharp and Ferrothorn. Roost is to increase your longevity and Defog is for hazard control.

Heatran really isn't that good of a Choice Scarf user right now. Everything it was trained to kill earlier in the gen is banned or not played anymore. Try running the SDef Leftovers set over the Choice Scarf to gain a Stealth Rock setter that doesn't lose to common Defog users. Lava Plume is pretty much the only move that is mandatory on Defensive Heatran due to it's high burn chance and it's perfect accuracy. Stealth Rock allows you some entry hazards and takes the pressure off of Landorus-Therian, freeing him up for another role. Toxic allows you to hit Pokemon on the swap like Rotom-Wash or Keldeo who commonly swap into Heatran thinking he can do nothing in return. The last slot is more of preference as Roar is good for phazing and Protect is an excellent move for scouting or Toxic stalling.

Now that you have changed Heatran from a scarf set to a rock setter set you want something who is fast and yet still hits hard. I recommend making Landorus-Therian your Choice Scarf user in order to have a solid revenge killer and check to most physical threats. Earthquake is the preferred STAB and Stone Edge is the best coverage move available to him. U-turn gives the team momentum and can allow you to gain the advantage by forcing unfavorable match ups for your opponent while Knock Off is a utility move that is used to beat stall mainly. Pretty much all I saw, good luck with the team and don't hesitate to ask me for help again.
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Protect / Roar

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spd
Bold Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Roost
- Defog

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
 
Hey HeliosEchi, I'm here to rate your team. Honestly Mega Banette is a mega that is rarely seen so I was intrigued to see how you used it. The team looks pretty solid but you have a huge Azumarill weakness as nothing can reliably swap into it and do damage back. Bisharp also is a pain for the team as don't have much wanting to swap in and at +2 Heatran gets demolished by a Sucker Punch. I suggest changing Latios to Zapdos in order to have a Defogger not afraid of Bisharp and something that can reliably KO both Bisharp and Azumarill. 248 HP is so that you take less damage from hazards upon the switch in, 16 Speed allows you to out speed Adamant Bisharp, and 244 Def are so you can handle things like Talonflame, Azumarill, Bisharp, and Mega Pinsir among other threats. Thunderbolt is the STAB of choice and Heat Wave gives coverage over Steel types like Bisharp and Ferrothorn. Roost is to increase your longevity and Defog is for hazard control.

Heatran really isn't that good of a Choice Scarf user right now. Everything it was trained to kill earlier in the gen is banned or not played anymore. Try running the SDef Leftovers set over the Choice Scarf to gain a Stealth Rock setter that doesn't lose to common Defog users. Lava Plume is pretty much the only move that is mandatory on Defensive Heatran due to it's high burn chance and it's perfect accuracy. Stealth Rock allows you some entry hazards and takes the pressure off of Landorus-Therian, freeing him up for another role. Toxic allows you to hit Pokemon on the swap like Rotom-Wash or Keldeo who commonly swap into Heatran thinking he can do nothing in return. The last slot is more of preference as Roar is good for phazing and Protect is an excellent move for scouting or Toxic stalling.

Now that you have changed Heatran from a scarf set to a rock setter set you want something who is fast and yet still hits hard. I recommend making Landorus-Therian your Choice Scarf user in order to have a solid revenge killer and check to most physical threats. Earthquake is the preferred STAB and Stone Edge is the best coverage move available to him. U-turn gives the team momentum and can allow you to gain the advantage by forcing unfavorable match ups for your opponent while Knock Off is a utility move that is used to beat stall mainly. Pretty much all I saw, good luck with the team and don't hesitate to ask me for help again.
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Protect / Roar

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spd
Bold Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Roost
- Defog

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge

Thank you kindly, Nog, for your wonderful rate. These were all ideas that had come to mind briefly and were likely put aside for some poor reason or another, but you have cemented beautifully. I have tried and tested these sets and after getting used to the changes I feel the team performs better overall. Keldeo is troublesome, but not unbeatable. I've also made some changes to the team thanks to the off-forum advice of TFL which has made the team a bit broader and less redundant in how it treats its threats. I hope this is not only the beginning of more rates for this team, but of this team becoming a threat to the entire meta.
 
Hmm... All I got is this: Change Lando-T to lando-i, with U-turn, EP, Sludge Bomb, Focus Blast. Probably LO. The other option is choice band and just ride a sand force, but the idea is it gives you another bisharp check. Lando-t just gives bisharp more power whereas lando-i forces that sucker punch or switch mentality. Obviously zapdos is a start but you really have no good answer to him at the moment outside of hoping to be in on lando-t or faster and in with Kyub as you don't even have a sub set.
 
Sup HelsEch, I finally got around to doing this XD. First thing I see that needs changed is that the 4 EVs in HP that Kyurem-B has need to be moved to either Def or SDef to reduce SR damage. I'd say your biggest threat right now is Bisharp, who can kill Zapdos after just 1% of residual damage, and then proceed to sweep (if Banette hasn't Mega Evolved). To help with this, I would recommend changing Scarf Landorus-T to Scarf Terrakion. Terrakion handles the exact same threats that Landorus-T does, but it can take a Sucker Punch and OHKO Bisharp.
Set:
Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab/X-Scissor
 
The vibe I'm getting from a lot of these rates is to change the Scarfer. I'm still deliberating on how to make this change, but I should come to a proper decision here soon and edit it into the RMT.
 
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