"Some Pun Related to Sun" ~inspired by Stone_Cold and Alice~

[blue cheez]

Hi guys!
I'm working on a team for my college's animecon's Gym Leader challenge.
My theme is "sunny day." (Last year's was grass monotype, so I've been moving up in the world xD)

Anyway, since this is a IRL pokemon game. My only condition is that stall should be avoided at all costs, even if it means making sacrifices.

Overall, I'm happy with my team. Sort of. I have way too much trouble vs traditional sun threats, and am trying to figure out ways around it.

Thought Process:


I decided to try out pre-made teams to learn about the weather metagame so that I'm not just guessing in the dark.

My team's framework is inspired off of the "Sun Means Fun" team:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104110

Ultimately this was my favorite and most successful sun team that I tried.
But, this team also kind of hit a wall. Heatran and dragons were a huge problem. And overall it was just very hard to switch around the momentum of a match.
Venusaur could never find a good opportunity to switch in.




With that in mind I found the O-so-popular team:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3462908

Now, I'm not going to lie, this team isn't exactly my favorite type of playstyle. (toxic stalling till your counters literally run out of PP)
But, there were some ideas that I borrowed.

Namely, lilligant. Yes, she get's to a slower start than venusaur. But more importantly, she doesn't die as easily and can more easily swing the momentum of the match.

I'll go into the thought process more on the individual spreads, so let's talk there!

Ninetales @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SAtk / 136 Spd
Modest Nature
- Roar
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

Dragons are a pain. I need roar to mindgame dragons into not setting up on turn1.

• I love the sunnyday+solarbeam setup, and love OHKO'ing unprepared cloysters, but honestly the dragon threat is too big of a problem.
  
• Will-O-wisp is here for predicting ttar switch. Not really for dragons. Every dragon carries a lum berry these days, it usually feels like a waste of time to even try.
  
• Idk enough to be able to say if flamethrower is a better option then fireblast.
  
• As for hidden power [fighting]...I hate this skill. But I need it to pop Heatrans air balloon or else I just die.

Foretress (Forretress) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball

Why Forretress?
He's mediocre but does his job better than everyone else.
Tentacruel gets wrecked by earthquakes, and can't find good switch-in opportunities. Donphan is crippled to death in rain, and really limits my options when politoad switches into my ninetales (he can either use toxic or ice beam to hurt volcarona/lilli/sawsbuck. I've thought about using hitmontop instead to deal with ttar better, but then its significantly harder to handle outrages.

• Rapid Spin is necessary for Volcarona.
• Stealth Rocks necessary for breaking sash's for sweep
• Spikes for noobs. If I was smarter I'd switch it for voltturn
• Gyro Ball to put things that set up on me in kill range (salamence for instance)

Ev's are specially defensive because I like to use Forretress as a pivot against water types. (Sawsbuck and lilligant are risky counters because of icebeam changeups)

Sawsbuck @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Nature Power
- Horn Leech
- Swords Dance

Why Sawsbuck?

He's a god in the sun.
Getting a swords dance up changes the momentum of the game completely.
I've switched Double-Edge with Jump Kick multiple times. The only reason for this would be to be able to hit heatran with an air balloon. But honestly it's just not worth sacrificing Sawsbucks most powerful attack.
Honestly, this set is pretty standard and I'm pretty happy with it.
Maybe I should take some speed EVs out to get better bulk to get up a swords dance?

Lilligant @ Leftovers
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 72 Def / 252 SAtk / 184 SDef
Modest Nature
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Giga Drain
- Sleep Powder
- Quiver Dance

I'm somewhat happy with lilligant. She does her job better than venusaur. The big reason why this is is because she can function without sun. Venusaur's fun immediately ends as soon as politoad/ttar come in. So even if I get a lucky growth off, they send in politoed, switch to a wall, and I've taken 20% life orb damage and am forced to switch out.

Usually I can get her out under sun. Then I use a sleep powder to get up a quiver dance, and now it's not as big of a deal if I lose weather.

Volcarona @ Leftovers
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 144 HP / 84 Def / 120 SAtk / 160 Spd
Bold Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Morning Sun

Standard Volcarona set. I'm happy with it. She's beautiful.
Weirdly, she's my response to a lot of fighting types I have trouble with.
I usually just stall out until a lucky contact burn occurs and quiver dance up.
She's also my response to heatran. Which sounds stupid. And it is stupid.
Because toxic variants just murder me. But nontoxic sets can usually be quivered against with moderate success. I usually just scare it out by quiverdancing enough.
I have been tempted to switch bug buzz with hidden power fighting, just to deal with heatran.

Latios @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4HP / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fire
- Trick

This is my default panic button slot. When things aren't going well, I resort to using Draco Meteor. It gets me out of a lot of binds. And I can usually get in a nice Draco Meteor to deal some damage during the stall-war switchfest.

This slot origionally had darmanitan. But then I realized I never really used/needed Flare Blitz, and only used him for rock slide/superpower/uturn.
Sigh...Maybe I should put darmanitan back. Having scarf superpower really, really helped vs heatran.
I also played around with using Conkeldurr and some other fighting types, but it merely scares out ttar and heatran and continues the endless weatherwar.

This slot then was switched to Hydreagon, thanks to Alice/StoneCold. But honestly, I needed the speed and power rather than the type coverage. More importantly, focus blast couldn't OHKO heatran, so it felt kinda useless.







Threats/Problem:

• Fire attacks. I have no good typing against fire in the sun.
  
• Heatran!!!! Sawsbuck OHKO's but can't switch in
  
• Dragons! If a dragon comes in on forretress. I have to switch out while he sets up a dragon dance, and risk dying to a fire attack. If I don't immediately switch, he can get a second dragon dance up, which outspeeds and KOs my entire team. Also, roar feels dumb because I get rocked if he uses eq.
  
• Weak to stall, teams. They are SO hard to break because of how much Lilligant AND Volcarona hate toxic.

I'm considering switching lilligant with heatran, and foretress with another rapidspinner, but I'm not sure yet.


Thanks for reading everyone!
Any help is appreciated.

 

[Souf]

Hello blue cheez,
Since your team is weak to fire type moves and Heatran, and you are considering switching Lilligant with another Pokemon, I think you should consider switching Gastrodon for Lilligant to deal with those problems. With Earthquake, you can remove Heatran with ease and wall all fire type moves. Toxic for status'ing threats that need "stalling out." and Recover for a solid healing move. Ice beam can help with Dragons, also.

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Sassy
252 HP | 252 Sp Def | 4 Sp Atk
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Recover

Hope it helps! Good luck!

 

[BTzz]

Hey, cool sun team, but like a lot of sun teams, Heatran is a huge threat to your team. Heatran completely walls 4/6 of your team (6/6 if it's a specially defensive variant with Air Balloon as they don't care much about Ninetale's Hidden Power Fighting). Sure you could put it to sleep with Lilligant, but if your opponent is smart, they'll just sac their most dispensable Poke. Another problem is you have nothing to take a sun (and possibly Blaze) boosted Fire attack (Latios will get worn down quickly and Ninetales hates eating Earth Power). I'm also concerned with Forretress' ability to reliably spin away hazards for this team as Jellicent can easily switch in. Using a Choice Band Snorlax would patch up a lot of issues with the team. Snorlax is a great switch into Heatran, Chandelure, Latios and Volcaronca, all huge threats to your team. Snorlax also gives you a Pursuit trapper, meaning you can efficiently deal with Ghost-types which allows Forretress an easier time spinning for Volcarona and Ninetales. I would use Snorlax over Sawsbuck as your physical powerhouse, you won't really miss Sawsbuck's speed as you have Lilligant and Latios as an effective revenge killing duo. Now that you have a reliable switch into stong special attacks, Forretress can take on more of a role of a physical wall. I suggest an EV Spread of 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 SpD Relaxed. This would greatly help your team with switching into physical threats such as Terrakion and Landorus. Finally, you could use some insurance against Volcarona as Snorlax can't OHKO it, possibly getting burned by Flame Body in the process. Since you have Latios to revenge kill Volcarona, a simple change of Hidden Power Rock on Lilligant would suffice. You have no shortage of Fire-type attacks on you team and Hidden Power Rock would not only help with Volcarona, but with hitting Dragons such as Dragonite and Salamence.

Snorlax | Thick Fat | Choice Band
Adamant | 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Return | Pursuit | Fire Punch | Earthquake

Good luck with the team!

 

[Pocket]

Solid sun team, blue cheez! I find Scarf Latios on this team perplexing, since you already have an amazing revenge killer for dragons and Volcarona in LO Sawsbuck. I guess I can see Latios doing work against offensive rain teams, but if we were to address any of your problems, I would start from replacing Latios, which seems redundant.

One option is replacing Latios for Dugtrio. Dugtrio easily dispatches Heatran for this team, letting Lilligant and Volcarona to rip loose. Dugtrio makes combating Sand teams with Tyranitar a very easy task as well. It can also set up Stealth Rock for this team, easing a spot on Forretress for Volt Switch over SR.

Dugtrio

Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Earthquake
- Reversal
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge / Toxic

Another option is replacing Latios for Heatran. This will give you protection from opposing Heatrans and other Fire-type assaults, as well as soaking up Outrage and Draco Meteor for the teams in addition to Forretress. Even more, it can serve as the team's back-up Sunny Day user, bringing up Sun as soon as Politoed switches in to change the weather.

Heatran

Heatran @ Air Balloon / Life Orb
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Sunny Day
- Magma Storm / Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Taunt / Hidden Power Ice / SolarBeam

Sunny Day, Fire STAB, and Earth Power are staple. Taunt allows Heatran to dispatch Blissey / Chansey caught in Magma Storm, which helps pave way for Volcarona / Lilligant sweep. You may opt for Hidden Power Ice, however, to deal with Dragons (although Sawsbuck does a good job checking them already). Thanks to Magma Storm negating Leftovers recovery with its residual damage, Heatran can actually 2HKO Blissey and Chansey with LO Magma Storm after Rocks, but Air Balloon is always nice to provide extra insurance against Dugtrio, Landorus, Gliscor, and Heatran. SolarBeam is amazing for dispatching other weather inducers, such as Tyranitar and Politoed, who would drop in to switch weather on Heatran, only for it to put the Sun back up and SolarBeam them.

If you do go with Heatran instead of Dugtrio, though, Volcarona should replace Morning Sun for Hidden Power Ground to easily dispatch Heatran for the team. I would go with Max SpA / Max Spe with Modest Nature to drastically increase its chance in scoring an OHKO on the most specially defensive Heatran after a Quiver Dance. If you want to stick with Morning Sun, though, you would want to stick with Dugtrio.

Also, Stone Cold's Lilligant has 184 Speed EVs not Special Defense. This Speed EVs allows Lilligant to be faster than Scarf Terrakion.

Best of success and fun to your team!

 

[Aberrant17]

If stall is giving you trouble, I'd recommend some form of clerical/healing support. Moves like Wish, Heal Bell, and Aromatherapy work wonders, with the latter being a common move among most Grass-types. Lilligant herself makes an excellent cleric, and I run one on my own sun team. Here's the set I use:

Lilligant @ Leftovers (I run Lum Berry so she can act as a status absorber)
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Giga Drain (I use Petal Dance to compensate for the lack of SpA investment)
- Aromatherapy
- Sleep Powder
- Healing Wish

Healing Wish is especially useful for giving Life Orb sweepers and Flare Blitz users (if you ever decide to put Darmy back on the team). Also, keep in mind that the switch in will take entry hazard damage before receiving the healing effects, so keep that in mind if you have Rocks and/or Spikes on your side of the field.

Lastly, on the subject of Heatran. Infernape is a good option as a check to the molten mass of metal, as well as most Ttar (can't safely switch in, though). And as I mentioned earlier, variants carrying Life Orb or Flare Blitz will appreciate the healing support Lilligant can provide.

Hope that helps. ;)

 

[finestcrab71]

like pocket suggested, i believe that you should also run a heatran, albeit a different one

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature ( + spatt, - att
- Nitro charge
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Dragon pulse

 

[Legend Leader]

The only problems that I see are:
A.) A weakness to Landorus
B.) An over-reliance on Sun
C.) Getting smacked by Magnezone (to be explained)

The only thing that a Landorus can't hit Super-Effectively is Forretress. However, Forretress is OHKOd by Magnezone's HP Fire. After taking care of that, a Tyranitar and Gliscor semi-Core will take care of the rest. With Landorus as a sweeper, Gliscor and Tyranitar are able to wall your entire team. I know this because I've faced this team before with the exact team that I am describing. I know it seems very situational, but the Pokemon that I am using as part of my demonstration are very common. You would probably benefit very well from a Mamoswine. Life Orb- EQ, Stone Edge, Icicle Crash, and Ice Shard. You can then take care of most of the Pokemon that I mentioned with relative ease. I, personally, would kick Sawsbuck for it. Sawsbuck is eh. It is very easily walled in the case that there is no Sun up. And with no way to trap opposing Weather effectively, you're going to have a lot of trouble. ESPECIALLY with Rain.