I've come and gone from the pokemon competitive scene for a while, and never actually posted an RMT, but I really require help this time...
I've been battling on Shoddy for quite a while to pass time at work while I don't have any assignments assigned to me (I last played before Garchomp was banned), and have been trying to re-learn the meta. I've tried a few different teams to varying degrees of success, but this is the only one that actually brought me pretty far. I've tried Sandstorm, Rain, Offense... but none of them have met with as much success as this did...
However, there's just something about it that does not feel right... which is why I need some help.
Anyways,
MY AIM:
1. An offense-based balanced team that revolves around setting up behind screens, taking as little residual and direct damage as possible before starting to sweep to prevent being picked off by priority moves.
CHANGES:
Removed Honchkrow
Put in Mismagius
POKEMON I'VE TRIED: Gyarados, Dugtrio, Jolteon
Gyarados (over Honchkrow): Increases my weakness to electric moves even more and allows Jirachi to set up even easier, although it does chase away Weavile and Tyranitar.
Jolteon (over Azelf): Although he does sponge the problems of Thunder Wave plauging my team like mad, he can't do much back to the pokemon that DO use it (bar Togekiss). The lack of coverage of his moves and no access to Nasty Plot really hurts him. Fake Tears is a no-go, by the way; it just does not work the same.
This is the moveset I used:
Thunderbolt
Shadow Ball
HP Grass
filler (Tried Wish, Fake Tears, Substitute)
Dugtrio (over Honchkrow): Does what Honchkrow does better, but he's even MORE fragile than him, making switching in very difficult. Using Scizor's U-Turn in conjuction with him was awesome while it lasted, though.
MEMBERS:
IN-DEPTH:
Starmie@Leftovers
Natural Cure
Timid
76 HP/96 Def/138 SpA/200 Spe
~Grass Knot
~Psychic
~Rapid Spin
~Surf
Anti-Lead Rapid Spinner, Back-up Lategame Sweeper
+: Throughout the time that I was re-learning the meta, I never knew how important the lead pokemon was until then. The strategy is quite simple; attempt to KO their lead with either Psychic, Surf or Grass Knot and Rapid Spin away the rocks or spikes that they could have possibly set up. The moveset I gave my Starmie allows it to score a 2HKO (because of Focus Sash) most of the common leads that spring forth to face it. The speed EVs I gave it allows it to outspeed 252 +Nature Ape that might hope to attempt to KO me after they fake out or hope to damage me after I break their sash with surf.
-: Uncommon leads that resist all of my attacks or those that can take a hit and KO back immediately are a huge problem. Pokemon with Sucker Punch or Priority also prove a huge problem for Starmie; I've had problems with Weavile, Zapdos and Gyara (Although Grass Knot will 2-3HKO depending on how bulky it is). Also, if they somehow KO Starmie before I spin, I will have rocks to deal with without putting up any of them of my own.
NEW:
Jirachi@Leftovers
Serene Grace
Timid
252 HP/80 SpA/176 Spe
~Substitute
~Calm Mind
~Flash Cannon
~Thunderbolt
Bulky Special Sweeper
+: The standard sub CM Jirachi set seems to have the most success in making up for the huge Dark-type weakness my team has so far...
Scizor@Choice Band
Technician
Adamant
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
~Bullet Punch
~U-Turn
~Night Slash
~Superpower
Priority Sweeper, Scout
+: Scizor is a given; it's Bullet Punch is a killer, and I need the extra power without wasting a turn using Swords Dance so I decided to give it a Choice Band. Besides the standard rant about Scizor, the reason why I opted to use Night Slash over Pursuit (the only difference between this and the set off the analysis page) is because of Rotom-H; since he's the primer Scizor counter the next time he switches in I can KO with it, and even if they don't I can scout their main Scizor counter or attempt to find out which one of his pokemon would be the best switch in, since he decided to switch that into Scizor. Once I take out that pokemon or neuter it I can attempt a sweep with Bullet Punch.
-: Being bounded to Choice Band is one of the heaviest burderns put on my lobster-like grasshopper. If I mispredict and they end up switching into a resisted attack they get a free turn (which happens quite a lot if I opt to Bullet Punch first).
Gardevoir@Light Clay
Trace
Calm
252 HP/64 SpD/194 Spe
~Reflect
~Light Screen
~Will-o'-Wisp
~Thunderbolt
Dual Screen, Sweep Stopper
+: Kind of like the Pivot of my team, she comes in on hits that she can resist (like Gyarados or Salamence) or absorb (to pokemon like Heatran and Jolteon), and sets up the respective screen. I gave her enough speed EVs to outspeed an unboosted max speed Jolly T-tar (a common switch-in) to set up Reflect in the case that he does appear. After a WoW pursuit does little enough damage for her to safely switch out while I prepare Kingdra or Scizor to chase Tyranitar away. The dual screens are extremely useful to the way I play; I'm prone to making some mistakes and the dual screens are invaluable in helping Azelf and Kingdra set up their respective sweeps. Because of how useful the screens are...
-: ...I end up suffering once she's down, and that happens pretty often; on the occasion that I do not get spikes away she'll only manage to switch in about 2-3 times to set up some screens and then she goes down. WoW missing is a big bummer too, but one of the worst problems is her dying; because of Light Clay she has no form of recovery and she isn't really the bulkiest pokemon out there, especially while taking hits without the screens. I've been considering putting Wish over WoW, but then she'll fear pursuits and crunches like no other and if I put it over Thunderbolt instead she won't have any form of offense to chase away the pokemon she switches into. I've also considered using a wishpasser, but I have absoultely no idea who to replace...
Kingdra@Leftovers
Adamant
Swift Swim
252 HP/64 SpD/194 Spe
~Rain Dance
~Dragon Dance
~Waterfall
~Outrage
Bulky Sweeper, Resistance Maniac
+: With only one weakness (Dragon) and plenty of resistances, Kingdra can come in on lots of pokemon that threaten the rest of my team (Lucario, Scizor, Heatran, Gengar, Zapdos and Weavile just to name a few) and set up accordingly to threaten them and potentially the rest of their team. No pokemon isn't 2HKOed by Outrage after 2 Dragon Dances (if they let me pull it off or if I manage to do so), or at least according to what I have experienced so far. Laitas seems like a common switch-in to my Kingdra which eats Outrage for the OHKO. I fall back on Kingdra alot due to the amount of resistance he provides and the niche role of a fast, good physical sweeper. Being able to get rid of sand and hail is also a plus; Gardevoir needs all the help she needs in surviving.
-: However, he does have his downs; having that glaring Dragon-type weakness means I have not much means to switch into THEIR outrages (barring Scizor which usually gets 2HKOed anyway) and having to set up qutie a bit before he becomes really threatening brings him down a little. Also, if the Heatran that I'm attempting to switch into uses Dragon Pulse I'm basically gone; nothing can deal with that metallic volcano. However, he's one of the key players in this team alongside Gardevoir, so he's definitely staying.
Azelf@Leftovers
Levitate
Timid
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
~Nasty Plot
~Psychic
~Grass Knot/HP Fighting
~Flamethrower
Special Sweeper, Part-time Antibliss, Finisher
+: Some of you might argue against me putting Grass Knot on both Azelf AND Starmie, but grass knot has proven invaluable in many a situation where swampert, suicune and a plethora of other bulky waters that have attempted switching in to try to stop me from sweeping. HP Fighting will allow me to deal with Tyranitar, Heatran and Dark-types switching in, but grass knot has proven itself to be the better choice as Kingdra deals with what Azelf can't. With dual screens up I can easily get 2 plots off and OHKO everything that doesn't have sash or outspeeds me. Being able to set up on Blissey without Toss or T-Wave is amazing too.
-: Another Key player next to Kingdra and Gardevoir, he clears up the game for me. He also is completely walled by the likes of Heatran which threaten my team alot but like I said I have Kingdra to take care of him. However, once the Heatran carries Dragon Pulse, that's it for me.
REMOVED:
A revenge killer would have suited my team well, but Honchkrow was way too fragile.
Honchkrow@Life Orb
Super Luck
Jolly
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
~Sucker Punch
~Drill Peck
~Night Slash/Pursuit
~Superpower
Anti-sweep, Immunity, Pseudo-Trapper
+: Being both Dark and Flying, I get a few key resistances (ghost, mainly), immunity to Psychic and Ground-type moves which would give me quite a lot of trouble if they got out of hand. Honchkrow's main purpose is to serve as a back-up anti-sweep in case they manage to set up with speed; Sucker Punch coming off 349 attack is going to hurt (except if they're a certain Calm Minding Steel/Psychic type) and the reason why I went Jolly over Adamant is to pounce on slower pokemon that think that they can outspeed me. I have been debating on the use of Night Slash over Pursuit myself; on one hand, if I give it Night Slash, it would be able to take on Metagross, Jirachi and Ghost-type switch-ins better and make use of Super Luck well but having 2 out of 4 moves in common with Scizor sounds quite unappealing. If I give it Pursuit, it would not be able to handle switch-ins as easy but I can pseudo-trap with a threatening pursuit.
-: Like I said, I don't want to make occupy the role one pokemon can play with two of them, but the times that I swapped EITHER one of them out for some other pokemon whenever I feel the need to fall back on a back-up like Honchkrow I'm basically screwed. I know one of them might have to go, but I just can't seem to figure out a niche to fufill this role. Until then, Honchkrow fits it perfectly, though, but the fact that certain pokemon can sweep me and wall me very easily is telling me something is wrong.
I've been battling on Shoddy for quite a while to pass time at work while I don't have any assignments assigned to me (I last played before Garchomp was banned), and have been trying to re-learn the meta. I've tried a few different teams to varying degrees of success, but this is the only one that actually brought me pretty far. I've tried Sandstorm, Rain, Offense... but none of them have met with as much success as this did...
However, there's just something about it that does not feel right... which is why I need some help.
Anyways,
MY AIM:
1. An offense-based balanced team that revolves around setting up behind screens, taking as little residual and direct damage as possible before starting to sweep to prevent being picked off by priority moves.
CHANGES:
Removed Honchkrow
Put in Mismagius
POKEMON I'VE TRIED: Gyarados, Dugtrio, Jolteon
Gyarados (over Honchkrow): Increases my weakness to electric moves even more and allows Jirachi to set up even easier, although it does chase away Weavile and Tyranitar.
Jolteon (over Azelf): Although he does sponge the problems of Thunder Wave plauging my team like mad, he can't do much back to the pokemon that DO use it (bar Togekiss). The lack of coverage of his moves and no access to Nasty Plot really hurts him. Fake Tears is a no-go, by the way; it just does not work the same.
This is the moveset I used:
Thunderbolt
Shadow Ball
HP Grass
filler (Tried Wish, Fake Tears, Substitute)
Dugtrio (over Honchkrow): Does what Honchkrow does better, but he's even MORE fragile than him, making switching in very difficult. Using Scizor's U-Turn in conjuction with him was awesome while it lasted, though.
MEMBERS:
IN-DEPTH:
Starmie@Leftovers
Natural Cure
Timid
76 HP/96 Def/138 SpA/200 Spe
~Grass Knot
~Psychic
~Rapid Spin
~Surf
Anti-Lead Rapid Spinner, Back-up Lategame Sweeper
+: Throughout the time that I was re-learning the meta, I never knew how important the lead pokemon was until then. The strategy is quite simple; attempt to KO their lead with either Psychic, Surf or Grass Knot and Rapid Spin away the rocks or spikes that they could have possibly set up. The moveset I gave my Starmie allows it to score a 2HKO (because of Focus Sash) most of the common leads that spring forth to face it. The speed EVs I gave it allows it to outspeed 252 +Nature Ape that might hope to attempt to KO me after they fake out or hope to damage me after I break their sash with surf.
-: Uncommon leads that resist all of my attacks or those that can take a hit and KO back immediately are a huge problem. Pokemon with Sucker Punch or Priority also prove a huge problem for Starmie; I've had problems with Weavile, Zapdos and Gyara (Although Grass Knot will 2-3HKO depending on how bulky it is). Also, if they somehow KO Starmie before I spin, I will have rocks to deal with without putting up any of them of my own.
NEW:
Jirachi@Leftovers
Serene Grace
Timid
252 HP/80 SpA/176 Spe
~Substitute
~Calm Mind
~Flash Cannon
~Thunderbolt
Bulky Special Sweeper
+: The standard sub CM Jirachi set seems to have the most success in making up for the huge Dark-type weakness my team has so far...
Scizor@Choice Band
Technician
Adamant
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
~Bullet Punch
~U-Turn
~Night Slash
~Superpower
Priority Sweeper, Scout
+: Scizor is a given; it's Bullet Punch is a killer, and I need the extra power without wasting a turn using Swords Dance so I decided to give it a Choice Band. Besides the standard rant about Scizor, the reason why I opted to use Night Slash over Pursuit (the only difference between this and the set off the analysis page) is because of Rotom-H; since he's the primer Scizor counter the next time he switches in I can KO with it, and even if they don't I can scout their main Scizor counter or attempt to find out which one of his pokemon would be the best switch in, since he decided to switch that into Scizor. Once I take out that pokemon or neuter it I can attempt a sweep with Bullet Punch.
-: Being bounded to Choice Band is one of the heaviest burderns put on my lobster-like grasshopper. If I mispredict and they end up switching into a resisted attack they get a free turn (which happens quite a lot if I opt to Bullet Punch first).
Gardevoir@Light Clay
Trace
Calm
252 HP/64 SpD/194 Spe
~Reflect
~Light Screen
~Will-o'-Wisp
~Thunderbolt
Dual Screen, Sweep Stopper
+: Kind of like the Pivot of my team, she comes in on hits that she can resist (like Gyarados or Salamence) or absorb (to pokemon like Heatran and Jolteon), and sets up the respective screen. I gave her enough speed EVs to outspeed an unboosted max speed Jolly T-tar (a common switch-in) to set up Reflect in the case that he does appear. After a WoW pursuit does little enough damage for her to safely switch out while I prepare Kingdra or Scizor to chase Tyranitar away. The dual screens are extremely useful to the way I play; I'm prone to making some mistakes and the dual screens are invaluable in helping Azelf and Kingdra set up their respective sweeps. Because of how useful the screens are...
-: ...I end up suffering once she's down, and that happens pretty often; on the occasion that I do not get spikes away she'll only manage to switch in about 2-3 times to set up some screens and then she goes down. WoW missing is a big bummer too, but one of the worst problems is her dying; because of Light Clay she has no form of recovery and she isn't really the bulkiest pokemon out there, especially while taking hits without the screens. I've been considering putting Wish over WoW, but then she'll fear pursuits and crunches like no other and if I put it over Thunderbolt instead she won't have any form of offense to chase away the pokemon she switches into. I've also considered using a wishpasser, but I have absoultely no idea who to replace...
Kingdra@Leftovers
Adamant
Swift Swim
252 HP/64 SpD/194 Spe
~Rain Dance
~Dragon Dance
~Waterfall
~Outrage
Bulky Sweeper, Resistance Maniac
+: With only one weakness (Dragon) and plenty of resistances, Kingdra can come in on lots of pokemon that threaten the rest of my team (Lucario, Scizor, Heatran, Gengar, Zapdos and Weavile just to name a few) and set up accordingly to threaten them and potentially the rest of their team. No pokemon isn't 2HKOed by Outrage after 2 Dragon Dances (if they let me pull it off or if I manage to do so), or at least according to what I have experienced so far. Laitas seems like a common switch-in to my Kingdra which eats Outrage for the OHKO. I fall back on Kingdra alot due to the amount of resistance he provides and the niche role of a fast, good physical sweeper. Being able to get rid of sand and hail is also a plus; Gardevoir needs all the help she needs in surviving.
-: However, he does have his downs; having that glaring Dragon-type weakness means I have not much means to switch into THEIR outrages (barring Scizor which usually gets 2HKOed anyway) and having to set up qutie a bit before he becomes really threatening brings him down a little. Also, if the Heatran that I'm attempting to switch into uses Dragon Pulse I'm basically gone; nothing can deal with that metallic volcano. However, he's one of the key players in this team alongside Gardevoir, so he's definitely staying.
Azelf@Leftovers
Levitate
Timid
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
~Nasty Plot
~Psychic
~Grass Knot/HP Fighting
~Flamethrower
Special Sweeper, Part-time Antibliss, Finisher
+: Some of you might argue against me putting Grass Knot on both Azelf AND Starmie, but grass knot has proven invaluable in many a situation where swampert, suicune and a plethora of other bulky waters that have attempted switching in to try to stop me from sweeping. HP Fighting will allow me to deal with Tyranitar, Heatran and Dark-types switching in, but grass knot has proven itself to be the better choice as Kingdra deals with what Azelf can't. With dual screens up I can easily get 2 plots off and OHKO everything that doesn't have sash or outspeeds me. Being able to set up on Blissey without Toss or T-Wave is amazing too.
-: Another Key player next to Kingdra and Gardevoir, he clears up the game for me. He also is completely walled by the likes of Heatran which threaten my team alot but like I said I have Kingdra to take care of him. However, once the Heatran carries Dragon Pulse, that's it for me.
REMOVED:
A revenge killer would have suited my team well, but Honchkrow was way too fragile.
Honchkrow@Life Orb
Super Luck
Jolly
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
~Sucker Punch
~Drill Peck
~Night Slash/Pursuit
~Superpower
Anti-sweep, Immunity, Pseudo-Trapper
+: Being both Dark and Flying, I get a few key resistances (ghost, mainly), immunity to Psychic and Ground-type moves which would give me quite a lot of trouble if they got out of hand. Honchkrow's main purpose is to serve as a back-up anti-sweep in case they manage to set up with speed; Sucker Punch coming off 349 attack is going to hurt (except if they're a certain Calm Minding Steel/Psychic type) and the reason why I went Jolly over Adamant is to pounce on slower pokemon that think that they can outspeed me. I have been debating on the use of Night Slash over Pursuit myself; on one hand, if I give it Night Slash, it would be able to take on Metagross, Jirachi and Ghost-type switch-ins better and make use of Super Luck well but having 2 out of 4 moves in common with Scizor sounds quite unappealing. If I give it Pursuit, it would not be able to handle switch-ins as easy but I can pseudo-trap with a threatening pursuit.
-: Like I said, I don't want to make occupy the role one pokemon can play with two of them, but the times that I swapped EITHER one of them out for some other pokemon whenever I feel the need to fall back on a back-up like Honchkrow I'm basically screwed. I know one of them might have to go, but I just can't seem to figure out a niche to fufill this role. Until then, Honchkrow fits it perfectly, though, but the fact that certain pokemon can sweep me and wall me very easily is telling me something is wrong.
