Tournament SS CAP Snake Draft Format Discussion

[Tadasuke]

SS CAP Snake Draft Format Discussion​

As the title of this thread implies, this is where we'll be discussing which formats to include in the SS CAP Snake Draft and the style of matches in which they're played. Once there's been adequate discussion on each tier I'll create a poll for users to vote on which formats to include or exclude, as well as how many battles will happen in any given format.

Right off the bat I think both SS CAP and SM CAP should be guaranteed slots in the weekly matchups since they are the only two CAP formats with updated resources. The number of each is up for debate. For SS CAP I think it's reasonable to have one best-of-three match and several best-of-one matches. For SM CAP I'd like there to be discussion on the number of matches in this format, since some players may want only a single match in it every week and other may staunchly support having two.

In addition to those two formats, there's a whole slew of CAP-based metagames that don't receive as much attention. They are as follows:

• CAP UU​
• CAP Doubles​
• CAP LC​
• CAP NFE​
• CAP 1v1​
• ORAS CAP​

To start things off, I want people to discuss the following questions:

• How many games of SS CAP should occur every week? In what style?
• How many games of SM CAP should occur every week?
• Are there any additional metagames worth adding to the weekly roster? Why?

 

[SHSP]

Gonna quickly throw my support behind a 4/2 split, or something of this sort/ratio, of SS to SM. The rest of the metagames listed have a host of issues- CAP Dubs hasn't been played in how long? LC as a tier isn't well designed in my honest opinion, 1v1 is a tier I don't think is particularly competitive, and ORAS is so old at this point there's not much in the way or resources and playerbase. I don't know much about NFE or UU, so I'm gonna refrain from commenting much, but they don't seem like particularly good fits for a tournament like this because they're just flatly not developed enough (please, correct me if I'm wrong about these two.)

4/2 type split is my personal favorite look here because I think its a good balance between the two best metas here. With SS, we're looking at the dominant, current gen meta that always is gonna get the majority of slots. SM is also a fantastic meta that had a really, really effective showing in CAPPL, is widely liked among former players even compared to current gen, and is generally high quality. I think the balance here with the slot numbers make for the best overall experience with the two formats that are best fit for a draft sort of tour, encourage good scouting+drafting plans, and having multiple of the SM slot supports building in both tiers.

 

[LucarioOfLegends]

Echoing SS/SS/SS/SS/SM/SM for basically the same reasons that a similar format was done for CAPPL. Most of the other suggested formats are not particularly suitable for large tour play.

-CAP Doubles is dead
-CAP LC is dead and doesn't really have any up-to-date resources
-CAP 1v1 seems to have stagnated to some extent
-CAP NFE and UU I have no experience with but don't exactly seem developed or active.
-ORAS is the most viable option here but it is still extremely old and there are likely enough players.

 

[Doomstadt]

I don’t usually make forum posts but and there’s no guarantee I will ever get drafted to play in this tournament. But that being said I’d like to second Shsp post. A 4/2 split is definitely the way to go.

Most of the other cap metas are undeveloped and some I would argue are meme worthy. While some do have interest from hardcore cappers that interest doesn’t apply to the majority of cap players because they simply just don’t play them. Learning a new meta can be time consuming and quite difficult for some and having slots for niche metas isn’t optimal when the vast majority of signees will most likely want to play SS Cap or SM Cap. Another thing to consider is by including these niche cap metas we’ll be indirectly limiting the players participating because as I presumed before there are only a handful of players that play them. I played Oras and hardly remember it.

Also some of the metas just don’t have interest we’ve been trying to run a successful cap doubles tournament for years and it has never come to fruition. If this is to be a competitive tournament, then it should be just that there’s no room for things like 1v1.

 

[Gleeboop]

About CAP NFE, that meta is also dead, same situation as CAP Dubs. I'd support CAP UU if this tour was pre-tundra, but there currently is no tundra meta and, with the CAP UU mons being decided by VR placement, its not going to happen anytime soon. I think CAP LC has so far extended to a few roomtours and that's about it, also a dead meta. The only tiers here I can support are ORAS and (if this isn't an applicable option, sorry) Monotype. For ORAS, we still have several players from that meta in CAP and it probably wouldn't be too difficult for any new player to find the old resources and learn the tier. For Monotye, it isn't that much different from regular CAP, just with the same type clause and a few extra bans, so it should be rather easy to jump onto.

 

[SunMYSER]

I think the only viable option as far as non-Sm/SS metas would be ORAS. While there are definitely few experienced players, it still has players. As much as i'd love to play CAP lc (if i get drafted) i just don't see there really being any next level playing on the same level as SM, SS, or even ORAS.

If ORAS was selected, i feel the ration could go 3(SS) / 2(SM) / 1 (ORAS). Gives the main stage to the current meta, while letting SM have the deservedly better showing. I'd be excited any way it turns out!

 

[Voltage]

I am also in favor a of a 4/2 SS/SM split.

If we WERE to include one additional meta, I'd argue for CAP UU since there's at least been a tour of it, but I hesitate there since that was for Isle of Armor and there hasn't been any development whatsoever. Most of this obviously depends on how many players sign up though. I dislike ORAS just given the age of the meta with little to no player base, and I can guarantee few CAP players, old and new wouldn't be interested in learning a new metagame like that. also am against CAP 1v1 because we still haven't developed a specific ruleset for it, and I'd rather not have that be a meta here.

 

[Tadasuke]

Alright, it seems like the majority of support is behind 4 SS and 2 SM, so we'll forgo a poll and have those compose the weekly lineup of matches. One final thing to discuss is the style of matches in each format. In CAPPL VI the same formats were used, but for SS games there was a single best-of-three match each week. I think this would help provide an opportunity for more serious matches in this tournament, although I can understand why some players wouldn't want to shoulder the burden of being the best-of-three player several weeks in a row. So as a final discussion point lets go over whether or not we want to have a best-of-three match in SS every week.

 

[Voltage]

I will always argue that saying a Best of Three is a completely different match than if you're playing a Best of One.

We say some really great fights in Bo3 during CAPPL, and I really like having it just because it does make fights a little more different. Bo3 is inherently a different metagame than a Bo1 matchup just because there's so many more things to prepare for and develop for your opponent. I think it's a fun exercise in growing as a player and diversifying a skillset of a player and really showing off who can really hack it since hax will have less of an impact than in Bo1.

Best of Three requires a lot more preparation before and during a match, and I would advocate that if we do end up doing a Best of Three, it would be interesting to add a clause that a player cannot be the Bo3 player two weeks in a row. The Bo3 matches were often stacked in favor of the strongest players playing there in order to ensure a good matchup against foes, and I think that if we wanted to add diversity to team lineups, adding a no consecutive clause could be interesting.

This is just a simple proposition and I'm not going to be torn up if others dislike the idea.

 

[Jordy]

I just want to show my support for 2 SM slots. It's a pretty beloved metagame and unlike ORAS CAP, has been preserved quite well; we updated the VR following CAPPL a couple months ago. The metagame had a great showing in CAPPL and some single tournaments didn't have a bad showing either; it's clearly a sustainable format for teams.

Not just that, but if we were to go with 1 slot for SM CAP, then that would negatively impact the dynamics within a team. Generally, when there is only one slot for a format, a player will be isolated from their teammates to an extent; you aren't playing the same format after all. With 2 slots for SM CAP, players would be able to talk to eachother about prep meaningfully. 2 slots would significantly improve the team environment.

Best of Three requires a lot more preparation before and during a match, and I would advocate that if we do end up doing a Best of Three, it would be interesting to add a clause that a player cannot be the Bo3 player two weeks in a row. The Bo3 matches were often stacked in favor of the strongest players playing there in order to ensure a good matchup against foes, and I think that if we wanted to add diversity to team lineups, adding a no consecutive clause could be interesting.

This idea is shit. There is no point to forcefully adding diversity to lineups.

I do support a BO3 slot though.

 

[LucarioOfLegends]

Agree with Jordy on Bo3. It's a real cool variation of the format that should be allowed in 1 slot but what Voltage has proposed is pretty dumb. Teams did rotate players out of Bo3 in CAPPL VI just fine, and I think forcing player rotation could put teams at a really unnecessary disadvantage going into certain weeks, either as preparation or result of decisions made for past and future weeks. Forced player rotation for Bo3 will only be a detriment for all teams.

 

[Tadasuke]

Good discussion so far, seems like the consensus is on having one best-of-three for SS. This is the 24 hour warning, so if you have any last points to make or issues to address please do so within the time limit.