Resource SS National Dex Mechanics Thread

[dhelmise]

Awesome arty by Gravity Monkey​

National Dex is unlike most other Smogon formats in that it can't follow actual cart mechanics. There is no precedent for how a Mega Pokemon should interact with Dynamaxing. This thread is here to explain how the National Dex formats on Pokemon Showdown! will function with regards to past and current mechanics interacting. Any mechanical updates or fixes will also be posted here and added to this post for posterity.

1. All Pokemon that were legal at the end of the 7th Generation are legal again. This does not include never released Pokemon like Floette-E. This also does not apply to unreleased Pokemon in Generation 8, such as Gigantamax Melmetal and Zarude. Finally, this does not apply to Pokemon that were legal in a prior game but not in Generation 7, such as Pich-Spiky-eared and the Cosplay Pikachu formes.
2. Mega Pokemon and Primal formes are usable. The restriction of one Mega Evolution per team still applies.
3. None of the "dexited" Pokemon are receiving new moves. Even if it's likely that Camerupt would be compatible with Scorching Sands, that's not happening until in-game data exists to confirm legality. Pokemon HOME leaks don't count.
4. Pokemon holding a Mega Stone, Z-Crystal, or Primal Orb are unable to Dynamax or Gigantamax. This restriction, however, will not impact the rest of your team, so you can use one Z-Move, Mega Evolve one Pokemon, and Dynamax/Gigantamax one Pokemon per battle.
5. Generation 8 moves are compatible with Z-Crystals. There is a table that scales Z-Move Power with regular Base Power posted later in this thread.
6. All "dexited" moves are returning as well. This means that you can use Pursuit again! All "dexited" moves have Max Powers based on a table posted later on in this thread. For example, Pursuit turns into a 90-Base Power Max Darkness.
7. Zacian, Zamazenta, Eternatus, and their formes still can't Dynamax. Every other legendary (except Mega Rayquaza, Primal Pokemon, and Ultra Necrozma) can due the precedent set by the games.
8. Some removed items are returning. Only certain items are returning, such as the ones necessary for forme changes. A full list of this includes: Mega Stones, Z-Crystals, Plates (barring Pixie Plate, which is already in the game), Drives, Primal Orbs, Deep Sea Scale, Deep Sea Tooth, Lucky Punch, Soul Dew, Thick Club, Lustrous Orb, Adamant Orb, and Griseous Orb.
9. Generation 8 Pokemon can't learn "dexited" moves. Even though it is glaringly obvious that Generation 8 Pokemon should get Hidden Power due to it being a nigh universal TM in previous games, the move data is not in their learnsets in the games' code, so they don't get it.
10. If Rayquaza knows Dragon Ascent, it will be able to Mega Evolve, but not Dynamax. If it does not know Dragon Ascent, then it will be able to Dynamax, but not Mega Evolve.
11. If a Necrozma-DW or Necrozma-DM is holding an Ultranecrozium Z, it will be able to Ultra Burst, but not Dynamax. If it is not holding Ultranecrozium Z or any other Z-Crystal, it will be able to Dynamax.
12. If Ditto transforms into a Pokemon that cannot Dynamax, it will not be able to Dynamax. That includes Mega Evolutions, Primal Pokemon, Ultra Necrozma, Zacian, Zamazenta, and Eternatus.
13. Forecast will not transform Castform into its Sunny or Rainy forme if it's holding a Utility Umbrella, and if a Utility Umbrella is tricked onto Castform while it's in one of those two formes, it will transform back to its base forme. Since Utility Umbrella does not protect from Hail damage or effects, this does not apply to Castform's Snowy form.
14. The Max Moves of Hidden Power and Judgment change type to be the type their non-Max Move variants have been set to be. For example, Arceus's Judgment becomes Max Strike, but its Hidden Power Fire would be Max Flare. This is because Multi-Attack, which is actually in Sword and Shield, changes in this manner.

Please keep in mind that this is a very new change and very difficult to work out. There is a decent chance some of these change or other major mechanics are added, the rules will take some time to settle. For the time being, the rules I've laid out above are what will be legal on Pokemon Showdown!.

 

[MZ]

Two major mechanics updates:

First of all, dynamax interactions are going to be changed. Previously, if any Pokemon on your team held a Mega stone or Z-crystal or Primal Orb, nothing could dynamax. Now only the Pokemon holding the item will be affected. That means you can use one z-move, mega evolve one Pokemon, and dynamax or gigantamax one Pokemon per battle.

Additionally, there is a bug where all past generation items have been made legal. This is not intentional. We are only freeing items that are necessary for old mechanics (mega stones, z-crystals), or unique held items for Pokemon that were cut from the dex (like Soul Dew). The full list is: All Z-Crystals, Mega Stones, Arceus Plates (except Pixie Plate which is already in the game), and Genesect Drives, Blue Orb, Red Orb, Deep Sea Scale, Deep Sea Tooth, Lucky Punch, Soul Dew, Thick Club, Lustrous Orb, Adamant Orb, Griseous Orb.

These changes have not been made to the ladder quite yet, but will be implemented soon.

 

[MZ]

Added a point about how Castform interacts with Utility Umbrella, which is minor but still something not present in regional dex. I've also received questions about unreleased hidden abilities from regional dex not being available (Clefable can't get Unaware in Sword and Shield). This should not be the case for national dex, because it's based on transfers being legal and Clefable can have Unaware in gen 7. It's just a bug that hasn't been sorted out yet.

 

[MZ]

Added a new rule that has been around and important for a while but was never formally stated and I've had questions about why the mechanic works this way:
Max Hidden Power and Judgment change types based on their base type. For example, Normal-type, plateless Judgment becomes Max Strike, but Splash Plate Judgment becomes Max Geyser. The reason we made it work this way is because that's how Multi Attack works in Sword and Shield and that's by far the best analogue we have to figure out how this mechanic is intended to work.

 

[dhelmise]

5. No new moves added in gen 8 can be used for Z-moves. Behemoth Blade or Drum beating simply won't be compatible with Z-moves.

This rule is being removed. It was never in effect in the first place.

 

[dhelmise]

Max Move Power Table​

Base Power​	Fighting/Poison Max Power​	Other Max Power​
150+​	100​	150​
110-149​	95​	140​
75-109​	90​	130​
65-74​	85​	120​
55-64​	80​	110​
45-54​	75​	110​
1-44​	70​	90​

Z-Move Power Table
if a move hits 2-5 times, take its Base Power * 3​

Base Power​	Z-Move Power​
140+​	200​
130-139​	195​
120-129​	190​
110-119​	185​
100-109​	180​
90-99​	175​
80-89​	160​
70-79​	140​
60-69​	120​
1-59​	100​

If a Z-Move is used with a Generation 8 Status move, it will have the "None" Z-Effect, similar to Healing Wish.​

 

[Anubis]

Since there's been a lot of speculation about Judgment and Hidden Power, I went ahead and enabled both moves to be clickable in SwSh. This is simply an edit that toggles the move to on without modifying any of its other characteristics.

Judgment:

• Pixie Plate + Multitype Charizard using Judgment = Fairy Judgment.
• Pixie Plate + Multitype Charizard using Max Judgment = 130 BP Max Strike.
• Pixie Plate + Multitype "Arceus" (Dex number 493) using Max Judgment = 130 BP Max Strike.
• Here's a demonstration of Multitype + Pixie Plate Charizard using Max Judgment:
  
  https://twitter.com/x/status/1285345984482967552

Hidden Power has similar mechanics.

• Regular HP Poison is neutral vs Grapploct and not very effective vs Cursola. It's 60 BP.
• Max HP Poison is neutral vs Grapploct and no effect on Cursola. It appears as 110 BP Max Strike.

Edit: Techno Blast and Revelation Dance also work the same way.

 

[Jordy]

Since there's been a lot of speculation about Judgment and Hidden Power, I went ahead and enabled both moves to be clickable in SwSh. This is simply an edit that toggles the move to on without modifying any of its other characteristics.

Judgment:

• Pixie Plate + Multitype Charizard using Judgment = Fairy Judgment.
• Pixie Plate + Multitype Charizard using Max Judgment = 130 BP Max Strike.
• Pixie Plate + Multitype "Arceus" (Dex number 493) using Max Judgment = 130 BP Max Strike.
• Here's a demonstration of Multitype + Pixie Plate Charizard using Max Judgment:
  
  https://twitter.com/x/status/1285345984482967552

Hidden Power has similar mechanics.

• Regular HP Poison is neutral vs Grapploct and not very effective vs Cursola. It's 60 BP.
• Max HP Poison is neutral vs Grapploct and no effect on Cursola. It appears as 110 BP Max Strike.

Edit: Techno Blast and Revelation Dance also work the same way.

After further review, we have decided to go back on this. We will be using assumed mechanics as of now. Many mechanics that may be hacked into the game are not fully/correctly implemented. Illusion pre-DLC is a great example of that: pre-DLC, Dynamaxing while Illusion is active would crash your game. Post-DLC, with Zoroark in the game, this is no longer the case.

 

[Jordy]

We've been looking at National Dex's identity as a metagame, and have ultimately decided to alter the current legality rules slightly. Every item that was legal in SM will be legal in National Dex. This means that Custap Berry, as well as Enigma, Jaboca, Micle, and Rowap Berry will be legal for use in National Dex from now.