Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [SEE: Page 105, Post 2618]

[Katy]

For my 100th smogon post, imona do a controversial one

Does not feel S.
Before you haha and angry react, ask yourself, is yeet stupid, or is my brain just forbidding me from seeing Lando anywhere but S?
The main reason for me saying this, is because lando doesn't even check our electric types in the long term. This isn't really a secret, both koko and zera overwhelm it decently easily. Koko does some fairy magic, and zera knocks it, and since then you can go into your own lando to wall the other one + setup rocks to pressure opposing lando, it gets chipped really quick. This would have been ok if zera was still running that volt switch set, but bu lefties is way better now, toxic + 3a is also dope, and both defeat lando. Lando doesn't really fit on anything but bo, coz hippo is likely always better on balance or anything less offensive. Bo obv wants fast stuff, but unfor it doesn't get faster than zera , bar scarfers ofc, but tbh the scarfers are usually visible. So zera is already exerting a ton of pressure on you, and then it turns out your ground can't even check it lol. Again, this would have been perfectly fine if zera was a bit slower, but it isn't. It's gonna get ample opportunities to revenge kill stuff, or just make progress in general with knock and such. Hence, you'll see it on the field more than you would like to, so you would bring out lando more than you would like to, and the cycle takes place till you die. Suddenly you're facing something which outspeeds most if not all of your team, and can knock you out with potentially +1 attacks. Same argument for the koko case pretty much, but koko would kill your lando faster and can actually switch in on some stuff and heal.
Now
I'm sure the argument against this would be, but lando has really good utility, it sets up rocks, is a good pivot, takes key things like ground and fighting, yada yada. And I'm not saying it's trash, it's lando afterall. I'm just saying, I don't see it on the same level as potentially pult or Tran or maybe weav (it to s- is something I agree with).
There will be a lot of people who'll disagree, and I would love to hear your thoughts, but do consider the question I asked before I gave the reasoning.

I also wanna make a 'soft' nom, idk if that's an actual thing lol
should stay A+ and should move up to a+ , or if zera drops then don't lift koko
Imo it has enough differentiating factors to where it's not always given up in favour of koko, I think they can co exist in the same tier. But I can still sorta see the flip side, it's like I'm divided 65:35, which is why I called it a soft nom.

Whew, finally done 100 posts. As always, have a good day everyone , मिलते हैं

I disagree heavily with down as it is the most splashable, glue pokemon in this tier. Its not only splashable but its versatility and sraight role compression is very much needed on a wide variety of teams, and its tournament usage speaks words, when it sits as the number 1 pokemon throughout spl and wcop not only in the usage but also in the lead section it clearly shows its a great role compression in 1 slot.

with the specially defensive set it is able to check dragapult in a pinch, tapu koko, can check heatran to an extent as well, and it still is capable of checking other dangerous threats such as excadrill and zeraora, although the former less common nowadays due to sand going down in usage, but it still is a great midground to help vs both excadrill and zeraora.

it can go with leftovers which gives it some longevity in its hands as well and with stealth rocks, defog, a strong earthquake even uninvested and a slow(er) u-turn being able to provide necessary and mandatory momentum and moves like toxic or knock off it is definitely a staple mon in the metagame. and with tapu koko on the rise it can alleviate that pressure which corviknight has against it, so corviknight can always fall back onto landorus-t to check tapu koko and both do an excellent job in checking a vast majority of the metagame as well, where landorus-t is surely a key member in that defensive core.

moreover landorus-t can run other sets such as suicide lead on hyper offense, which in itself is greatly appreciated for a lead and counter-lead simultaniously. it can also run sub bulk up sets, band set, sub sd, sd 3 attacks, or sd + rocks, or even very fringe sets like sd + rp or choice scarf as another option.

its role compression, versatility to fit as a gluemon on many team structures, its defensive assets, and its splashability make it one - if not the best pokemon - in the metagame and therefore should not drop.

 

[Deleted User 464209]

+ A- to A

+ C to B-

Two absolute units. Healing wish and Lunar Dance are very good, especially with pressure stall. Scarf cresselia is a lot like tapu fini. You trick, outspeed annoying junk, take a hit, and then dance back your kyurem or whatever.

Blissey is the closest thing to free turns in the meta, and rocky helmet is a real good option for it. Dragapult: U-turn. Koko: U-turn. Torn-T: U-turn. Etc. I have lots of replays with this if curious. Healing wish over teleport is also a good option for hyper offense teams. blissey gives a buffer vs Volcarona, sloking-g, stuff like that and then can H-wish when you need round 2 on a breaker. I see no reason to drop this. It kills dragapult by itself with just item.

 

[Liquidocelot]

I'm gonna go ahead and make a controversial disagreement.

:Dracozolt should not drop and is perfectly fine where it is. As someone who absolutely hates himself by continuing to play Sand in this meta I have to say. That Dracozolt is basically the only thing carrying sand at this point especially if ya don't do the default set and go for the Ocelzolt set which is more specially Offensive based (you still hit most of the relevant OHKO's with Bolt Beak) while still chunking Lando really hard after Rocks and making it unable to switch in against you again.

Fire Electric Ground and Dragon is extremely hard to wall and this mon basically tears apart common balance cores by itself. If the opponent is not carrying a Hippo or SPD Lando it's basically a series of 50/50's whether you lose a mon or not everytike you switch.

I'm not saying it's broken or needs to rise. I'm just saying. It hits extremely hard, it decimated half the top tier pokes by itself and laughs at common balance and BO cores where it is only OHKO's by something revenging it. However it requires sand support and some team support.(it really likes Rilla/Urshifu as teammates) however if utilized properly the mon is a menace and just as deserving to be in B+ as mons like Tangrowth, Tapu Bulu, Victini and Slowbro (all of which it beats btw).

Edit: Under Sand it's also a much better breaker than Nidoking as well.

 

[Verdas]

Hide

Personally i heavily disagree with

dropping down below A+. While many people want it to drop down to A or A-, i believe that placement only reflects the viability of the volt switch set. While the Plasma Fists, Close Combat, Knock Off, Volt Switch set is generally outclassed by

as a pivot, since it has such a hard time pivoting on grounds, hits like a wet noodle without setup, and doesn't have recovery, the new Zeraora sets that sport bulk up, toxic, or even taunt in place of the volt switch slot are worthy of A+. Bulk Up is an excellent late game cleaner, as its the fastest relevant pokemon in OU, making it ridiculously hard to revenge kill, and it can chip pokemon over the midgame to eventually pick off with a Bulk Up boost. Plus, given that it can force out weakened pokemon with its coverage, it doesn't have a particularly hard time getting said Bulk Up off either. Now onto Toxic. This move makes every ground type suck at beating Zeraora and its teammates. It is incredible at wearing down pokemon that would really prefer not to be worn down, especially

,alongside opposing

,

,

,

,

,

, and company. This extremely limits these mons as putting them on a timer severely hinders their abilities to pose an offensive and defensive threat. Plus, it excellently enables the wincons on your team to close out the game ( SD Garchomp loves a weakened Landorus-T, for example ). Last and probably least, Taunt. While i personally don't have a lot of experience with Taunt Zeraora, and don't think its quite on the level of Bulk Up and Toxic, as it's hard to fit, I have heard good things about it, and it has obvious good qualities if you are able to fit it onto your team. For example, Defensive Lando-T cant Stealth Rock or Toxic as you switch out, forcing it to Earthquake or U-Turn, meaning you don't lose much, if any initiative by switching out into something like Corviknight. Likewise, Bulky Volcorona cant abuse your limited power to set up, since you block any attempts to Quiver Dance or Roost. Clefable trying to take advantage of your passiveness to do any of the million things Clefable does will suddenly find itself limited to Moonblast and whatever secondary coverage it carries, if any. Additionally, while it's not a gimmick set per se, it is uncommon, and can catch unsuspecting opponents off guard.

tldr:

isnt a good pivot compared to

, but Bulk Up, Toxic, and Taunt are good enough to sustain its A+ ranking.

 

[SaberSeven]

As someone who has been using

lately, I would like to vouch for it to be moved up to B- at the very least. Shell Smash to +2 with King’s Rock can cheese its way through teams with ease. Especially with paralysis support from other teammates like Thunder Wave Grimmsnarl on Dual Screen teams. Cloyster has been the face of cheese teams that have seen time in OLT and some room tours courtesy of HTCL (from what I've seen at least, but those matter a lot less).

A -> A+

I also agree with this nomination. With the rise of Tapu Fini and Weavile, Ferrothorn serves as a solid check to both mons resisting the STAB moves of the former and getting Iron Barbs chip damage on the latter while setting up Spikes or Stealth Rocks (Spikes more commonly). The current metagame trends benefit Ferrothorn nicely and warrant its rise to A+.

vs

This one is a bit of a tossup. Where one goes, the other should be. Personally, I prefer Tapu Koko with its access to Roost giving it an edge in longevity over Zeraora and its ability to U-Turn out of Ground types that threaten it, but Zeraora has a better time checking tier staple Dragapult due to its higher speed tier and access to Knock Off which can strongly hinder Landorus-Therian and other bulky/passive Pokemon. Either A or A+ are fine for either, but where one goes, so should the other in my opinion.

Other nominations I agree with:

A -> A+

A- -> B+

B -> B+

_fan4820

UR -> Blacklisted

 

[THKNKG]

For my 100th smogon post, imona do a controversial one

Does not feel S.
Before you haha and angry react, ask yourself, is yeet stupid, or is my brain just forbidding me from seeing Lando anywhere but S?
The main reason for me saying this, is because lando doesn't even check our electric types in the long term. This isn't really a secret, both koko and zera overwhelm it decently easily. Koko does some fairy magic, and zera knocks it, and since then you can go into your own lando to wall the other one + setup rocks to pressure opposing lando, it gets chipped really quick.

Others have said things about how widely it fits in teams, how it works as glue for so many teams, etc., but I think this line you gave kinda reinforces the counterpoints that were brought up. The idea of lando being worn down by electrics in your post is contingent on switching to your own lando. You can switch other things into it, but the fact that both teams in the example have lando show how omnipresent it is lol. I do think it isn’t necessarily as solid as a physical wall as it once was, as things like corviknight and buzzwole do so well, but lando is so malleable that as soon as its usefulness starts to wane, it reinvents itself, whether it’s running spdef or running earth power or whatever else. It shares that quality of “why won’t you go away” with Tran imo, even if a set starts fading, another one takes its place because those 2 are just so good at so many things

 

[Verdas]

Nominations (Only rises to A+ this time lol)

Spoiler

Tapu Fini to A+: This pokemon is absolutely amazing right now. It beats so many metagame staples, Weavile, Dragapult, Urshifu-R, etc. Scarf sets are excellent utility, providing speed control and allowing it to shut down passive mons. Whirlpool is also a similarly amazing set, the combo of Whirlpool, Taunt, Natures Madness, and Moonblast allows it to pick off many threats for its team, with its only real problem being accuracy. While Calm Mind sets are behind in usage compared to Scarf and Whirlpool, they are solid win conditions that can definitely sweep squads with a little bit of team support. Thats not to mention how amazing of an ability Misty Terrain is, allowing itself and its teammates to not get inflicted by status, severely improving physical attackers who don't want to get burned, such as Kartana, as well as pokemon such as Volcorona, who really don't want to get worn down by poison.

Volcorona to A+: Volcorona has the potential to be a huge threat in literally every matchup where Heatran, it's one true counter, isn't present. Even if the moveset you have can't sweep the opponents team, the opponent has to guess on what coverage you have. Heavy Duty Boots severely improved its consistency, making it less of a "Matchup Moth", and more of a consistent offensive threat. While every set has at least one other check/counter besides Heatran, the opponent often doesn't know what coverage it sports until its too late, and it can often blow through teams because they make an incorrect prediction on its coverage, or play too passively whilst trying to scout its set. On the other side of the spectrum, it also has means to beat any potential check besides Heatran as well: Safeguard for Blissey, Psychic for Toxapex, Giga Drain for Tapu Fini, and Flame Body burns for Dragonite. Also, it can even potentially sweep in the endgame without even using Quiver Dance, since Fiery Dance is such an amazing move, definitely an A+ mon.

Kyurem to A+: What switches into this thing? Seriously, Kyurem is an absolute monster. On paper, Specs Kyurem with a set of Ice Beam, Freeze Dry, Earth Power, and Focus Blast cant be walled by any relevant OU pokemon, besides potentially Blissey, who is already on the decline right now due to to the rise of Weavile, Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, Buzzwole, Choice Specs Trick Blacephalon, and others. The Substitute Roost Pressure stall sets are also solid, PP stalling pokemon down, and being extremely hard to break without losing all your PP thanks to the infuriating combo of Subsitute and direct recovery in the form of Roost. In practice, Kyurem isn't this efficent, since it often has to predict to drop an opposing pokemon, and it can get forced out due to its speed tier, but its ridiculous power and ability to maul defensive cores in such a bulk oriented metagame more than makes up for it.

Slowking-Galar to A+: Slowking was previously on the decline, seeming to be overshadowed by its Johto-born brother, but thats not the case anymore. It's an excellent regenerator pivot, thanks to its access to one of the best moves in the game: Future Sight. This allows it to support its teammates in creating pins and severely limiting switchins. While it seems outclassed by normal Slowking at this role, due to its lack of teleport as well as a ground weakness, its amazing coverage that makes it much more unpredictable (having Scald, Flamethrower, Earthquake, and Ice Beam along with the obligatory Sludge Bomb and Future Sight), an immunity to getting poisoned which makes it much harder to get worn down, and lack of electric weakness, allowing it to come in on Tapu Koko, as well as Zeraora if it doesn't mind losing its Assault Vest or if it's already lost it, make it just as good of, if not a better pivot than normal Slowking. It also does well against what is rising in the metagame, as it has great matchups against pokemon who have high usage like Tapu Fini and Buzzwole, and it also enjoys Dragapult slowly being on the decline. While the rise of Weavile seems to be bad for Slowking-Galar, since Weavile is a great offensive check, it's a blessing in disguise for it since it's an excellent Weavile partner, helping it in creating future sight pins and finishing off mons that Weavile might've barely missed out on the KO on, and in turn Weavile checks Dragapult for it. It's immaculate coverage, as well as its ability to take advantage of metagame trends, awards our Hippopotamus friend a slot in A+.

Tornadus-Therian to A+: Speaking of amazing Regenerator mons, we have Tornadus-T, a pokemon that seems to almost be on the level of its earthly brother in terms of role compression. It can be a pivot, Defogger, Knock Off user, bulky Regenerator wall, Toxic spreader, stallbreaker with Taunt, and potential sweeper if you are running the nasty plot set. While Nasty Plot Tornadus-T has seen better days, with Tapu Koko and Zeraora being very prevalent, as well as its shoddy inaccuracy, it can still pose a threat, especially if you have good aim that day. Nasty Plot isn't the reason I believe it deserves A+, however, the defog set is. Thanks to the utility U-Turn and Knock Off provide, as well as the blessing that is Heavy Duty Boots, Tornadus separates itself as one of the premiere defoggers in this format. It can come in multiple times without having to waste a turn to heal with Roost or waiting a million turns to heal through Leftovers, by virtue of Regenerator, which also allows it to outlast its counterplay, as a Tornadus with 1% health becomes a Tornadus with 34% health by using the best move in the game: switching. It has the natural strength to avoid passiveness, even without investment, and it can wear down many mons if it runs Toxic, and Taunt murders defensive mons and can slow down setup Sweepers like Volcorona. Moreover, it fits on a variety of team archetypes, from offense to balance. It does so many things at once for your team, no matter what moves you use, that it frees up a ton of team slots, allowing you to get more value out of each and every member of your squad.

Sorry if this post was a bit long, just wanted to post my opinions on some mons i think really deserve promotions.

 

[Zneon]

didnt give my thoughts on noms in forever so why not do it now?

Weavile: A+ → S-

This mon is insane, I think Weavile is the best offensive Pokemon in the tier at this point, being an absolute monster in almost any point in the match, especially mid and late-game. Having your checks chipped vs Weavile is very scary because with one SD it can easily bypass your whole team with its amazing STAB combo and amazing Speed tier. I think its dominance is fairly evident when you have stuff like Buzzwole and Tapu Fini being some of the most common and necessary glues for a team. The only "flaw" Weavile has at this point in the metagame is that Triple Axel is such an unreliable move, which sucks because of how important it is for Weavile's damage output, but unreliability isn't that big of an issue because of how it still threatens almost every Pokemon in the metagame after an SD, and even its key defensive utility in being a dark resist that is actually bulky enough to take 2 hits from Specs Dragapult. Amazing mon, very splashable, very threatening, clearly above the stuff in A+ imo.

Slowking: A+ → A-

Slowking is just not good anymore, I feel the meta could not get anymore hostile to it, at this point its just too abusable and the metagame has pretty much adapted to it at this point. Weavile is at the forefront of the metagame rn, Blacephalon has been on the rise, Tapu Koko and especially Fini have been making a resurgence. Its job is checking special attackers, but at this point it doesn't do that well because our most common ones heavily overwhelm Slowking and it doesn't have much to compensate for it. Galarian Slowking does this better because it does Slowking's job while still being a huge pain to switch into, and with the direction the metagame is heading, Slowking doesn't really get the opportunity to FuturePort like it did previously. I just feel Slowking has really fallen off now.

Tapu Fini: A → A+

On the subject of Bulky waters, Tapu Fini is easily the best one in my opinion. This Pokemon is such an important glue for so many teams and the huge amount of roles it can fill is incredible. Choice Scarf is the epitome of role compression, checks so many prominent threats like Weavile, Dragapult, Urshifu-R, acts as a strong form of speed control, great disruptor because of Trick, overall very annoying to play around and adds so much to teams. Whirlpool has been on the rise, traps a pretty vast array of Pokemon in Toxapex, Slowking, and Blissey for example and is pretty easily to fit onto teams because of this. Calm Mind is a very dangerous wincon against a lot of bulky teams and getting sweeps off with it isn't too hard given its huge pool of options. It both being a check to so many prevalent Pokemon while also being a nuisance for other teams while also just benefitting your own with its versatility and options just make it one of the most important Pokemon in the metagame, if that doesn't sound like A+ material to you then I don't know what is.

Blacephalon: B → A-

I genuinely think that Blacephalon is so dangerous that it is worth making A- rather than B+ imo but I wouldn't be opposed to B+ either. Regardless I think this Pokemon should rise, its a nuisance to switch into. Its Speed tier is pretty great since there are only 5 relevant Pokemon that naturally outspeed it and Scarfers outside of Tapu Fini have not been that common. Almost the whole metagame gets threatened by the threat of Overheat + Shadow Ball since there are almost no Pokemon that can take a hit from Specs outside of a few exploitable ones like Blissey, which Blacephalon threatens with Trick so even Blissey cannot switch in safely. Speaking of its dual STAB, its ridiculous, there are almost no Pokemon that resist both outside of Hydreigon, which cannot take a Overheat especially after rocks, and Tyranitar, which is completely uncommon, so Blacephalon can just force 50/50s just from clicking its STABs and its not that hard to support either. Its weakness to rocks can be annoying and how it cannot switch into anything on its own, but those weaknesses aren't too bad because of how easily it can be patched up.

Arctozolt: C → B-

Weather in general isn't really doing so hot but Hail is easily my favourite weather to use right now and Arctozolt is a huge reason why. Its a huge nuisance to switch into because BoltBeam is unresisted, that combined with hail damage means that consistently checking this Pokemon is a huge struggle. Substitute is the best set right now since Arctozolt is good at forcing switches, and can spam its STAB moves with no risk, there are mons that can check it pretty well like Magnezone, Ferrothorn, Melmetal and Gastrodon but all of these Pokemon outside of Gastro don't have recovery, so taking multiple hits in conjunction with hail damage is super annoying for all of these Pokemon. Don't know what else to say, Arctozolt is just a huge threat and worth rising to the B ranks.

Zeraora: A+ → A

I don't really understand how Zeraora is A-, it isn't A+ anymore but A- is way too low given how amazing its Bulk Up set is. It's worse as an offensive pivot than Tapu Koko is (which btw should rise to A+), but the merit and payoff Bulk Up Zeraora is so huge that its worth putting onto many teams. And besides, Zeraora as an offensive pivot has quite a few things over Koko, Knock Off being the biggest one since that is such a huge progress maker, its Speed tier is still very important and of course being a volt blocker. But the fact that Koko can keep itself alive and can actually pivot vs Ground-types because of U-turn makes it the better Electric pivot, but Zeraora is still very good but I don't see it as A+ anymore.

==========

Other noms I agree with:

C → B-

A → A+

A → A+

S → S-

 

[memesketch]

I'm sure most of it's been said already, but I've got some noms and agreements:

RISES

A -> A+
Fini has really come into its own in this meta. The Whirlpool set is downright nasty, especially with Knock Off or Knock support to drop Pex's Shed Shell. Scarf is a great Weavile, Urshifu, and Dragapult revenge killer for offense and a fantastic disruptor with Trick and potential Taunt or Defog, and Calm Mind is a MU fish but can be a great wincon and particularly good Urshifu and Weav check. Plus terrain support is very nice for teammates like Garchomp and Zera. This mon is bona fide top 10 right now, it deserves A+ as much as anything.

A- -> A
Scizor has truly surprised me with just how solid it is as a defensive pivot. It gives awesome role compression as a switchin to Specs Kyurem's and Tapu Lele's STABs, a Sub Kyurem counter which is very VERY important to have, and a soft check to a bunch of physical attackers like Rillaboom/Bulu, Weavile, and Melmetal, and it can even clean lategame in some matchups. Of course it can get overwhelmed if it has to fill two or more of these roles at once, but it's no different from other mons with similar role compression like Lando-T or Fini in that regard, and unlike them it can Roost it off. Overall, Scizor's been a force in the meta and very much deserving of A tier. TL;DR: I concur wholeheartedly with all the points agslash23 and Windingsss raised

B+ -> A-
Suffice to say, there's not another Volt Switcher that does it as well as this thing. It pivots all over the many, many teams that use Landorus-T as their Volt absorber, invalidates its Grass-type checks like Ferrothorn and Amoonguss by bringing in teammates like Blacephalon and Kyurem on them, making it one of the best ways to support them and other hard-to-get-in, high-reward breakers. On top of this it checks Melmetal, Dragonite, Heatran, and even Cloyster. A good VoltTurn build is often made better by using this thing, it's very underrated.

B+ -> A-
Bulu's proven itself to be a menacing breaker and tank as of late. Buzzwole and Amoonguss are generally the only Pokemon that can switch in on this thing safely; even Iron Defense Skarmory and Corviknight aren't safe if they switch in on Swords Dance. Access and resistance to Close Combat, Stone Edge to obliterate Tornadus-T and Volcarona, and actual recovery in Horn Leech make Bulu, in my opinion, firmly better than Rillaboom and give it a strong presence in the metagame.

B+ -> A-
Victini's finally found its place in the meta, and it's just as threatening as many predicted it would be. It forms fantastic pivoting cores with top tier Pokemon like Landorus-T and Tapu Koko and takes advantage of the general lack of Pokemon that can handle its coverage, especially in Electric Terrain. Along with its bulk and typing that help it ease matchups against Lele and Kyurem, this makes Victini a very good Pokemon currently.

B -> B+/A-
Blacephalon is the rising star that nobody saw coming. This Pokemon's been highly successful as a breaker with how few "checks" can take its Specs Overheats and repeated Shadow Balls, and those that can, like Blissey and Tyranitar, just get Tricked. Basically everything AquaVanilla, BreakthrU89, ausma and others have said I agree with. SEND IN THE CLOWNS

B -> B+
Ghosts really have had a lucky break lately. Aegi is a very cool mixed breaker right now with Life Orb or Spell Tag, and I've heard Specs sets have seen success as well. Like its buddies Pult and Blaceph, it struggles to break Toxapex, but drops from Shadow Ball help remedy that issue. It's not the most consistent pick and often relies on heavy prediction to break bulkier teams, but it deserves a rise because it offers plentiful and relevant offensive and defensive qualities over other similar attackers.

C+ -> B-
Did this thing drop? I don't see why; VinCune is certainly still a threat and probably one of the most annoying Pokemon in the tier to beat. Its Subs are really hard for most of the defensive meta to take down, and even when it doesn't sweep it stalls out moves like Urshifu's Close Combats and Dragapult's Draco Meteors for its teammates and can check Cloyster, Volcarona, and Weavile in emergency situations. If nothing else, it's surely a step above the other more niche Pokemon in C+.

C -> B-
Not much to be said here that hasn't been said a thousand times. Please ban King's Rock so we can get this thing off of the rankings and out of our heads.

C -> C+/B-
Hail is becoming increasingly common and successful, especially on ladder, with Arctozolt as the face of the playstyle. With hail and veil support from Ninetales, this thing shatters a lot of teams with its STAB combination alone. The inconsistency of the playstyle and Zolt's relative uselessness against offense outside of hail are concerns, but Zolt's proven itself more than potent enough to be worthy of a rise.

C- -> C/C+
We've all smashed our heads into our keyboards facing Shed stall at one point. Boots and the loss of Pursuit were huge buffs to this thing, since now stall teams can properly get it on and off the field. With sand less common than ever, Shed lends itself to being less of a matchup fish and an increasingly valuable asset to teams that need a Pokemon to reliably wall Tapu Lele, Kyurem, and Future Sight + Urshifu, and stop the latter along with other threats like Koko and Skewda from spamming their pivoting moves. Shed is still niche for obvious reasons, but it's proven to be a surprisingly viable defensive threat that solves many of stall's worst matchups, more so than a C- ranking would indicate.

DROPS

A+ -> A-
Gomi described the fall of Slowking better than I ever could. The Pokemon that it checks have adapted to it extensively; it's too easily overwhelmed by them to carry out its other duties consistently and is extremely vulnerable to getting knocked and statused by the few Pokemon it can generate free turns against.

A- -> B+/B
Hoooo boy, big Bish. This thing's had a pretty steep decline recently mostly because consistency is nonexistent for it; Band and SD sets alike are almost entirely matchup reliant to do what they need to; if the opponent has, for example, a Skarmory, Urshifu, or especially Buzzwole, the game becomes a serious uphill battle for Bisharp. Plus there's a certain other STAB Knock Off sweeper rising in prominence that puts Bisharp on the back foot. Bish has had its fun, but it's likely time for it to drop down the ranks again.

A- -> B+
Blissey struggles. Hard to put it any other way. Thing is too passive and gets U-turned or Volted on by everything it actually checks well i.e. Zone, Koko, Pult, and Rotom-W. A lot of the other special attackers like Lele, Heatran, Hydreigon, Blaceph just trap, Trick, or bust through it. Plus it's not a great Future Sight absorber because it has no passive healing and it can't absorb the physical hit that often accompanies FS. This thing has far too many flaws to sit in the A ranks.

A- -> B+/B
I'll be honest, as someone who used Zap all the time in gen 7 I haven't vibed with it at all this generation. Torn-T outclasses it wholly as a Defogger, caring decidedly less about Knock Off, outspeeding the Pokemon it wants to check like Kartana and Urshifu, and being less passive with a Knock Off of its own and U-turn. Better bulk and typing means Zap can get the job done in a vacuum but it's just so vulnerable to Knock Off, and doesn't check anything very consistently outside of Melmetal as a result if it can't get a Static para. I certainly don't think Zapdos is better than Mandibuzz in a defensive role, so to B+ or B it should go, IMO wherever the vulture ends up.

B -> B-
This one is quite frankly unavoidable. Can't believe I'd see the day Excadrill is legitimately just straight up bad, but here we are. It relies entirely on Iron Head/Rock Slide flinches to break anything, since it gets blanked by half of the defensive meta, it's worn down super easily into range of stuff like Urshifu Aqua Jet, it has very little defensive utility because it's a Ground-type that gets OHKOed by Zera and a Steel-type that gets blasted into the stratosphere by Lele's STABs, and above all it's totally useless outside of sand. With every new meta development, poor Drill keeps digging its own grave lower and lower.

B -> B-
Oh boy, a bulky Ground-type with no defensive utility! Swampert is just too slow and can't make progress against anything, it's total U-turn and Knock fodder sine it's super passive and can't heal. This thing holds the distinction of being the bulky Ground-type that loses to Zera the quickest, go figure. It's a cool rocker on Grass spam teams since they can cover its lack of recovery with terrain and they tend to be super weak to Heatran, but other than that this thing is totally outclassed by SpDef Lando-T.

B- -> C+
In theory, this thing breaks and cleans up nicely with Speed Boost. In practice, the only thing sped up is its death after 2 turns of being on the field. Just use Zera for a sweeper that's fast out the gate or Victini for a Fire-type physical attacker. Admittedly it's still cool on screens, which is niche to begin with, so as such it should be chilling with Grimmsnarl in C+.

C+ -> C
Rain is a niche playstyle to begin with, but when was the last time someone actually used Kingdra? Barraskewda and Seismitoad outclass this thing as a Swift Swimmer because of the former's strength and asinine Flip Turn spamming and the latter's defensive utility, coverage, and access to Stealth Rock, and Volcanion outclasses it purely as a rain special attacker because it's an absolute nuke. With SpDex Toxapex, Fini, Ferrothorn, and Glowking on the rise, Kingdra's gonna inevitably struggle to make its mark on most teams.

C- -> UR
I have not once seen this Pokemon in the past 9 months in OU. It has no reliable recovery, it's taken advantage of by pretty much every other defensive Pokemon and every special attacker because it's so passive and specially frail, it has 4MSS because it needs to run Pain Split and one of its easily wallable STABs and then it has to choose between Flamethrower, Will-O-Wisp, Defog, Toxic (Spikes), Aromatherapy, etc. If it could run all of the aforementioned moves on the same set, maybe it would be decent. But as its stands, there's basically no use for this thing and it checks nothing that Buzzwole, Corviknight, and Skarmory don't check far better.

C- -> UR
I can understand the rationale for this being ranked, at least more so than Teddy Roosevelt's asthma that I've discussed above, but realistically Alakazam never gets a chance to set up. Its bulk is totally abysmal, it's outsped by 5 of the most common threats in the metagame that can all take advantage of it, and it needs Life Orb to do any sort of damage even at +2 (for reference, it has no shot of OHKOing Tapu Fini or SpDef Lando-T after Rocks without it), which means even Toxapex can hit it with Knock Off and essentially neutralize it. Its reliance to break Steel-types with Focus Blast also hurts it immensely, since it means there's always a chance something like Melmetal could sidestep a Blast and blast back, rendering Zam even more useless. Zam is just not strong, fast, or reliable enough to offset its terrible vulnerabilities, to the point where either C- should stay its permanent home or it should be orphaned to UR.

Other noms I agree with:

S -> S-
A -> A+
A -> A+
A -> A+
A- -> A
B+ -> B
(B specifically, hard disagree with B-. While it's true Mandi is very vulnerable to Knock Off and Toxic, being a Defogger that can switch into both Pult and Kart means Mandi can still pull its weight on the right team.)
B+ -> B
B -> B-
B- -> C-

Noms I disagree with:

A+ -> A
(Suppose I could go either way on this one, but I lean more towards low A+ because Bulk Up Zera is just incredible.)
A+ -> A
A- -> B+

 

[julian113]

B- -> C+
In theory, this thing breaks and cleans up nicely with Speed Boost. In practice, the only thing sped up is its death after 2 turns of being on the field. Just use Zera for a sweeper that's fast out the gate or Victini for a Fire-type physical attacker. Admittedly it's still cool on screens, which is niche to begin with, so as such it should be chilling with Grimmsnarl in C+.

I actually agree with the rest of your noms, but hard disagree here. The difference between zera and blaziken is the damage output, the former lackin significant power even after a boost, becoming clear whenever you face a physical wall not weak to electric or fighting. Blaziken may lack longevity, but one thing you can’t complain about is its damage output, nothing bar pex, bro, and heavily invested fini/lando/hippo is taking an attack from a +2 blaziken. Of course, zera tends to be better in practice, hence the difference in ranking already present, but blaze is different enough to warrant a seperate role on teams. As for victini, the only thing they have in common is being fire type physical attacker. Victini operates as hdb pivot on most teams, with defensive utility in checking lele and soft checking kyurem. Blaziken operates as an all out offensive mon with little(soft check to weav/bish) to no defensive utility in matches. Again blaziken hits much harder than victini if it’s using anything but v create. And lastly, in no way does grimmsnarl represent the viability of screens on the vr. Unlike other team styles like tr and rain, there are no mandatory inclusions on screens ho, meaning it doesn’t have a set place on the vr. Tapu koko and alolatales are seen just as often as screen setters as grimm. If anything, lucha is a better indicator of the viability of screens.

 

[IPF]

Surprised I haven't seen this anywhere, but I think Volcanion should move from C -> B. 2 sets in particular are stand out:

Sets

Volcanion @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave

and

Volcanion @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Sludge Bomb

Specs under rain is something we saw a little of earlier this generation and hits like an absolute truck, Boots is nearly impossible to pivot around due to its fantastic coverage and is easy to get in against mons such as Landorus and Heatran. The water immunity also disincentivises Urshifu from brainlessly clicking Surging Strikes lest it allows this mon to come in for free and claim one. Also is surprisingly bulky and can force some common threats such as Weavile out if at full.

The above two teams in particular have been really popular on the OLT ladder, with several people using them in their qualification runs.
Not much else to add, but leaving this down in C rank is criminal.

 

[BoomFantastic]

We banned King's Rock from SS OU

Welp, y'all know what this means...

C ---> C-/UR

With its niche of flinching down Melmetal with Icicle Spear reduced to ashes, the only options left for Cloyster are White Herb / Focus Sash sets which really don't accomplish anything of note compared to the tier's other setup sweepers, especially now that it's well and truly shut down by the aforementioned Melmetal, Toxapex, Unaware Clefable, Aegislash, Slowbro, Magnezone, some Rotom-Wash variants, etc.

Given that list of answers, the only real reason left to use Cloyster is to feel some form of nostalgia for the days when you could close your eyes, flip a coin and watch as that wall in front of you is forced to lose another turn.

(Oh and ty finch, I can actually have fun testing team concepts on the ladder now)

 

[Finchinator]

Cloyster has been unranked.

 

[Deleted User 464209]

UR to C-

Niche: Spikes Anti-lead
Cloyster @ Focus Sash
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Shell Smash
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin

Cloyster has unique ability to act as a great anti-lead on hyper offense teams that prevents hazards and gets its own up. Mew doesn't actually threaten anything. The formula is simple:

1. Shell Smash Turn 1
2. Kill something Turn 2 OR Remove their pebbles
3. Set Spikes or kill stuff depending on how weak the enemy is to ice.

I think this will only increase in viability now that people will not wrongfully overload their teams with Cloyster checks.

Reeeeeplays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1314372472
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1314374276 -- 3 layers of spikes with taunt support = GG
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1314967942
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1315243971 -- paralyzed, but still clears hazards vs noob opponent
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1315248031

https://pokepast.es/aa009d47956d6be4

 

[SimonBoi]

For my 100th smogon post, imona do a controversial one

Does not feel S.
Before you haha and angry react, ask yourself, is yeet stupid, or is my brain just forbidding me from seeing Lando anywhere but S?
The main reason for me saying this, is because lando doesn't even check our electric types in the long term. This isn't really a secret, both koko and zera overwhelm it decently easily. Koko does some fairy magic, and zera knocks it, and since then you can go into your own lando to wall the other one + setup rocks to pressure opposing lando, it gets chipped really quick. This would have been ok if zera was still running that volt switch set, but bu lefties is way better now, toxic + 3a is also dope, and both defeat lando. Lando doesn't really fit on anything but bo, coz hippo is likely always better on balance or anything less offensive. Bo obv wants fast stuff, but unfor it doesn't get faster than zera , bar scarfers ofc, but tbh the scarfers are usually visible. So zera is already exerting a ton of pressure on you, and then it turns out your ground can't even check it lol. Again, this would have been perfectly fine if zera was a bit slower, but it isn't. It's gonna get ample opportunities to revenge kill stuff, or just make progress in general with knock and such. Hence, you'll see it on the field more than you would like to, so you would bring out lando more than you would like to, and the cycle takes place till you die. Suddenly you're facing something which outspeeds most if not all of your team, and can knock you out with potentially +1 attacks. Same argument for the koko case pretty much, but koko would kill your lando faster and can actually switch in on some stuff and heal.
Now
I'm sure the argument against this would be, but lando has really good utility, it sets up rocks, is a good pivot, takes key things like ground and fighting, yada yada. And I'm not saying it's trash, it's lando afterall. I'm just saying, I don't see it on the same level as potentially pult or Tran or maybe weav (it to s- is something I agree with).
There will be a lot of people who'll disagree, and I would love to hear your thoughts, but do consider the question I asked before I gave the reasoning.

Tbh, I kinda agree and disagree with this a little bit, I think is it's like a budget mon, being able to combine multiple mons in one, and doing quite decent for one mon, but if you use Corviknight than you would have to put alot more care in teambuilding but overall Corviknight makes the team better, otherwise you would have to use something like Dragonite or Tapu Koko just to counter/check Rillaboom, which stacks alot of weaknesses. Lando also does not have reliable recovery, as nobody is gonna use Lando stall because corv is 10x better than Lando at stall teams since you would not need blissey to wish pass. Offensive sets, Suicide Lead or Choice Scarf is better than Defensive sets imo as Lando is made to be an offensive behemoth and its defensive stats are meh at best but intimidate helps that. Intimidate can be a pro and a con as one misclick with Lando into Bisharp can make Lando suffer alot of chip and having its lefties gone. If this gets consistent recovery then this would be S+ no doubt, but it does not have it so it's a big rip.

BUT, Defensive Lando can be kept with care on BO/Semistall teams with Blissey wishing it up, making it a consistent check to Zeraora/Tapu Koko with Blissey support. Lando is a big part that makes Zeraora and other Electrics A tier just because Lando is always a roadblock to them, if Lando is gone for you/your opponent, your Zeraora/Tapu Koko can go IN. Lando also has utility options like SR and Knock, which can weaken teams for the offensive threats to sweep. Lando is also the best defensive ground type pokemon rn as Swampert and Exca should be UU, so let's don't talk about that. Garchomp usually runs offensive sets just because Scale Shot and SD is that good, being able to sweep teams easily without proper preparation, and Tankchomp usually just sits there without doing anything thanks to the lack of Attack Investment and lack of consistent recovery, and SR is also way easier to avoid now with HDB so phazing is not really good. Hippowdon also has the same fate with Tankchomp albeit with consistent recovery in Slack Off.

Conclusion, Lando should be kept in S/S- idrk but defo not A+/S+ since it's versatile and threatening but not so overwhelming that it should be used on every team otherwise your team is bad like Primal Groudon in USUM Ubers. I'm leaning towards S but S- is also ok for me. Also the haha reactions are getting stacked, so lets try the wr for most haha reactions LGI.

 

[romanji]

300th post, so it's nomination time, and it's a doozy

rip Pikachu_fan4820, your bad vr posts will be missed

Quick Side note: If we are gonna have so many S- Pokemon, where even some are ranking Lando at S-, we might as well just nuke it and put all the S- Pokemon in S, and/or put Landorus-T in S+.

to S+
If we are gonna have so many S- Pokemon, this has to be the best amongst them anyway. I make the argument of S+, considering that it has had over 60% usage during WCoP, and has caused many and adapted to many shifts. S+ is reserved for Pokemon that are When you can choose what your team needs, maybe a Choice Scarf user, defensive Pokemon, Defog, a strong physical attacker with Choice Band or Swords Dance with Soft Sand, and even a suicide lead. Specially defensive sets are so good at putting many special attackers such as Dragapult in check that have to run in fear of Knock Off. U-turn allows it to gain momentum on many things. We have even seen the return of Landorus wars, as there are many mirror matches against each other, trading Stealth Rock and Toxic, and then pivoting out with U-turn, with the one going second getting a huge momentum shift for it's teammates. Also since I nominate this to S+, all of the S- Pokemon would go to S.

to S
This Pokemon is so bonkers. Saving this for a late-game sweep at the end is so good with its surprising natural bulk, taking a Choice Specs Shadow Ball from Dragapult easily, Bullet Punch from uninvested Scizor, and Flamethrower from Galarian Slowking. Triple Axel (when it hits) and Knock Off are extremely strong together, as Knock Off can remove potential Rocky Helmets allowing Triple Axel to be used without chip, and disrupting Leftovers and Heavy-Duty Boots. Choice Band is still great, with Low Kick OHKOing Max HP Heatran and Tyranitar, and the regular moves jacked up more immediately.

keep S
While Choice Specs sets are still great, Dragapult often just comes up short due to its 100 Special Attack. The rise of specially defensive Landorus-T, Clefable, and Heatran. Although I have seen some nominations for it to go to A+, it is also great at pivoting on threats such as Kartana and Urshifu, while also having a great secondary STAB with Draco Meteor with coverage such as Hydro Pump for Heatran and Thunder / Thunderbolt for Corviknight.

to S
Tapu Fini has absolutely become a metagame staple with 3 fantastic sets; Calm Mind, Choice Scarf, and Whirlpool + Nature's Madness. The Calm Mind set's access to Taunt allows it to prevent Haze from Toxapex and turn it into set up fodder. Choice Scarf has fantastic role compression, as it can act as a revenge killer and switch to Urshifu-R, Dragapult, and Weavile, while crippling passive Pokemon like Blissey. Whirlpool + Nature's Madness is fantastic at trapping Toxapex and Ferrothorn with ease, opening up Weavile even further. Eo used that set with Choice Scarf + Trick and it worked perfectly against the Toxapex as some have been running Shed Shell for that set.

to A+
Dazzling Gleam, U-turn, and Roost allows it to not be completely passive and walled by Garchomp and Landorus-T, making it a better pivot than Zeraora right now. Calm Mind is also a great win condition once Ferrothorn, Galarian Slowking, and Blissey out of there, the latter of which is falling down.

to A
Zeraora's Bulk Up set is still an absolutely fantastic win conditions. Its faster speed tier than Dragapult and access to Knock Off allows it to still make great progress.

to A-
Use its Galarian cousin.

to B+/A-
The clown has come to the show with its insanely high Special Attack with a great STAB combination. You would think that this would be outclassed by Dragapult, but they have great synergy with each other because double Ghost is broken. Beast Boost is also great with Overheat, as it can OHKO many things besides Flash Fire Heatran, and still having the 401 Special Attack. Often you are forced to sack against it just so you can get momentum back before it nukes another one of your Pokemon.

to B+
The resident pink blob has seen better days, as almost every special attacker has some way of exploiting it; Dragapult and Tapu Koko with U-turn while Tapu Fini can Trick a Choice Scarf onto it. It also often fails to do damage back to anything as it just clicks Soft-Boiled or Teleport getting almost nothing out of its turn.

to B-
Much like Blissey, Mandibuzz has been exploited by many things that it is supposed to check, such as Dragapult simply clicking any other move besides Shadow Ball and the plethora of Knock Off in the tier. The rise of Weavile and Tapu Fini do Mandibuzz no favors and it simply can't keep up. (please don't use this I just want to use this in UU please)

to B-
I hate to say this, but Excadrill might not be OU/Uber for the first time ever, and sadly deserved. It has no way of breaking through Corviknight and it has to stack weaknesses on sand teams with both Hippowdon and Tyranitar. Four moveslot syndrome is rampant on it, as it has to Choose between Rock Slide or Rapid Spin, or use Choice Band (which sucks)

to B-
No reliable recovery, crippled by Toxic, takes too much by Rocky Helmet, and outsped by way too many Pokemon due to having to run minimum speed for Flip Turn, outsped by even many Melmetal variants. Glad the ladder is figuring this out now so i can use this in UU.

to C+/B-
When you would want to say a pokemon is cracked, here it is. STAB BoltBeam is always great to have, and the variety of moves it can run. Substitute, Freeze-Dry, Blizzard, Low Kick, Stomping Tantrum, Hydro Pump, and being able to outspeed every unboosted Pokemon under hail.

Other Noms I agree with:

to A+

to B+

to B+

to B

Noms I disagree with:

to A
WHAT!? Just because Garchomp has a few bad matchups against Pokemon such as Clefable, doesn't warrant it to be A. Corviknight really isn't a check anymore, as they have started to run Fire Fang and can chunk it very well. Tankchomp is also very good against Zeraora, Melmetal, and Kartana with its ability to spread so much chip with the combination of Rocky Helmet and Rough Skin.

to B+
Hydreigon is arguably at it's peak right now. Earth Power and Dark Pulse is just fantastic coverage, as the only relevant OU Pokemon that resist them are Hawlucha, Buzzwole, and Tapu Bulu. Nasty Plot is obvious and Roost allows further longevity and offsetting Life Orb recoil. It's Speed tier is just 1 ahead of Urshifu, meaning it doesn't have to worry about getting revenge killed and can OHKO with a Nasty Plot-boosted Earth Power.

Special shoutouts just because I can:

Hide

Magnum It's great to have someone in both the OU and UU community that I regularly engage with in the both the Discords and any projects in either subforum. You're a nice guy and I hope you get that Community Contributor badge soon. It doesn't change the fact that you're a nerd

Milak CryoGyro Finland Bandkrook Thank you all for your helpfulness in the GP for any of my AM Checks, so that maybe one day, I could potentially be in the GP team one day.

Monky25 without you having the UU Victim of the Week, I wouldn't be participating in any VR, NP, or projects in any tier, and just be lurking around. Smogon is always better when there is engagement, thanks for being active and engaging with the UU community.

 

[Verdas]

Quick Side note: If we are gonna have so many S- Pokemon, where even some are ranking Lando at S-, we might as well just nuke it and put all the S- Pokemon in S, and/or put Landorus-T in S+.

to S+
If we are gonna have so many S- Pokemon, this has to be the best amongst them anyway. I make the argument of S+, considering that it has had over 60% usage during WCoP, and has caused many and adapted to many shifts. S+ is reserved for Pokemon that are When you can choose what your team needs, maybe a Choice Scarf user, defensive Pokemon, Defog, a strong physical attacker with Choice Band or Swords Dance with Soft Sand, and even a suicide lead. Specially defensive sets are so good at putting many special attackers such as Dragapult in check that have to run in fear of Knock Off. U-turn allows it to gain momentum on many things. We have even seen the return of Landorus wars, as there are many mirror matches against each other, trading Stealth Rock and Toxic, and then pivoting out with U-turn, with the one going second getting a huge momentum shift for it's teammates. Also since I nominate this to S+, all of the S- Pokemon would go to S.

Imo, S+ should solely be reserved for pokemon who are needed for a viable team, the best example of which I can think of is USUM Primal Groudon. You can make a more than successful/viable team without Landorus, and it therefore doesn't deserve this ranking. Landorus is S because of its great role compression and its ability to be a blanket check to so much of the tier. It's not anywhere near being S+ or banworthy due to not being needed on a team as well as how little it limits building. Also why are we doing magic rank shifts anyways. It seems that you want to make all the S- pokemon S just because, if I'm being honest.

 

[Plushietran]

Hello Smogoners ! this is my first time posting in this thread, so prepare for me to dump all my dumb hot takes for the world to see, while giving a brief reasonning for each nomination, some of these nominations have been already discussed but ill give my own take on them,

to A-
This Pokemon is really frustraiting to use, it checks almost no relevant special attackers except for Tapu Lele, which is really bad when its supposed to be a glue, the only reason i would use it is for the pivoting with teleport and future sight, and its sibling galarian slowking outclasses it at the future sight support role, which actually checks relevant stuff, Although the teleporting is nice in combination with future sight is nice for bulky offense teams, that doesent mean it should be as high as A+

to B+
Blissey really doesent have any teamstyles it fits on, balance doesent like a passive special wall, and bulky offense doesent like it for simillar reasons, so the only place it goes for is fat, but even there, alot of those teams dont run blissey, so a pokemon that cant find a job anywhere like that deserves to be B+

to A-
I really like this pokemon, it is an amazing wallbreaker thats extremely hard to wall, that can also have defensive utility in checking urshifu, which makes me prefer it over rillaboom on many balance/bo teams, especially with the choice band rilla set falling out of favor, so i think it should go with its grassy terrain summoning friend in A-

to B+
This pokemon just like bulu, in that its an amazing extremely hard to wall wallbreaker, but what bulu has in bulk and defensive utility, it makes up for in speed and immediate strength thanks to its meaty 151 base spa stat and spammable specs boosted shadow balls with almost no resists, it can be really tough for it to hit the field safely and building around it can be a pain because of a lack of defensive utility, but its worth ir

to B-
Hail has been picking up steam in the olt meta as a legitimate dangerous playstyle, and its mainly off of the work of this guy, stab boltbeam is amazing when backed by the speed provided by hail, so a tier

That's it and if you made it this far have a good day and i wish you hit all of your focus blasts :D

 

[smokeyinferno]

B+ -> A-

On the surface I will admit this mon seems pretty bad. Less than stellar defensive typing? Check. A physical Grass/Fairy mon with no physical Fairy STAB whatsoever? Check. Middling Speed tier? Check. This mon’s strengths lie in its fantastic coverage movepool, ability, and impressive base 130 Attack. With a Life Orb boost, an item this mon can afford to run with minimal drawbacks thanks to Grassy Surge and Horn Leech, Bulu hits like a truck even without setting up an SD. Furthermore, Close Combat and Stone Edge give it the coverage it needs to hit just about anything on the switch; not even Corv wants to switch into +2 CC (+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Tapu Bulu Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 279-329 (69.7 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery). Monstrous wallbreaking potential isn‘t the only thing Bulu offers, however; its ability Grassy Surge allows Bulu to support any grounded teammates with passive recovery, which is huge for mons like Swampert with otherwise poor longevity. Moreover, the halved damage of Earthquake allows Ground-weak teammates (most notably Heatran) to go from great from excellent (at least as long as your opponent isn’t running Earth Power LOL). TL;DR Bulu has its fair share of flaws but its monstrous offensive capabilities combined with the solid defensive utility it provides through Grassy Surge equal a Pokemon that deserves to be ranked alongside its Terrain-summoning brother Rilla.

 

[Walletinspector62]

Some noms, (again)

A+ -> A-/B+
Slowking has seen one of the sharpest declines in OU history. The meta has adapted to Slowking quite well. Pretty much every relevant meta threat has a way of completely destroying it before it can accomplish anything. It also checks nothing notable besides Tapu Lele. Personally, I think Slowking and Slowbro are around the same level in the current meta, and a drop should reflect that.

A -> A+
Ferrothorn does a lot in the current metagame. It’s a very consistent check to both Tapu Koko and Tapu Fini(bar scarf sets), two mons that are very hard to consistently check. It can also switch into other relevant meta threats such as Weavile, Melmetal, and Dragapult. It also provide some really nice support such as Knock off, Leech Seed, and Spikes. Overall, Ferrothorn is a very great glue mon in the current metagame.

A -> A+ Melmetal has finally returned to being the force it was in the HOME meta. While the metagame being riddled with Rocky Helmet users is rough, Melmetal is still able to put in work in every game it’s in. CB DIB is one of the strongest moves in the entire game, and can drop common bulky mons like Fini and Lando in one hit. It also appreciates the decline of Zapdos and Moltres. Melmetal also has some really good defensive utility as well. It’s natural bulk allows it to check Weavile and Bisharp, and with Assault Vest it can check the likes of Dragapult and Tapu Fini.

A- -> A
Role. Compression. This mon does an incredible job checking two of the strongest Pokémon in the tier, Tapu Lele and Kyurem, while also providing a pivot, a potential defogger, and a knock off user. It has reliable recovery in roost, and with SD, can be a potential late game cleaner with Bullet Punch. Overall, very good glue mon, a rise should reflect this.

B- to Higher
While yes, it does end up killing itself most games, it’s amazing offensive typing allows it to punch huge holes in teams that can potentially be taken advantage of by teammates. It’s a Choice Band user who isn’t completely prediction reliant. Gapdos appreciates the rise of Buzzwole and Melmetal as two physical sponges, as it can destroy both with its STABS. Outside of that, it is incredibly hard to switch into if you don’t have a Toxapex, which can be taken care of with FS support. Scarf sets can also clean up games very well. Overall, I think Gapdos has potential to become a huge meta threat.

also, I would like to refute my post about Hydreigon, I still don’t completely get it, but if there’s a resounding amount of support for it, then maybe I’m missing something.

also, when is the next VR update gonna happen? IK people are busy, but I don’t think the current VR reflects the meta at all. Don’t wanna sound ungrateful for the work that the VR team does, it’s just been a while.

That is all, have a nice day!

 

[Tungdil]

Well if you’re going to say this, you might as well take it a step further and explain what you would like fixed. This is an initiative I am following for next update for sure and I already have some ideas, but I would love if you (or other posters!!!) expanded on their thoughts on these ranks.

This was a quite underrated comment. The lower rankings are indeed too much forgotten. I hope the next VR includes these ranks.

C- -> UR
Conkeldurr is outclassed by better Fighting-types like Urshifu-R and Buzzwole, and by other slow Wallbreakers like Melmetal and Nidoking. Its pure Fighting-type doesn't help either. Celesteela is outclassed by Skarmory and Corviknight, and it is a lot passive.

C -> UR / C-
Shuckle is very passive and the meta is too oppressive, and it is outclassed by Ribombee, which has access to Roost and Quiver Dance, besides a secondary Fairy-type. Obstagoon hits hard, especially with a STAB Knock Off; however, it doesn't have longevity and its speed is not enough in this fast-paced meta.

B -> C+ / B-
Although Swampert is a rocker and pivot, it is so slow and quite vulnerable to Toxic. It is outclassed by better Stealth Rock setters, like Garchomp, Tyranitar, and even Excadrill.

C+ -> B- / B
These two are not starts, but they should be ranked in the kingdom of the Bs. Gengar is a potent Stall/Wallbreaker (please read here). Yes, Mamoswine is outclassed by Weavile, however, I think it can hurt hard top threats like Corviknight, Landorus-T, and Dragapult with priority, and Earthquake destroys Heatran (Mamo is a bit faster) and Toxapex.

Mamoswine Calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 288-342 (94.7 - 112.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Corviknight: 219-258 (54.7 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 272-324 (85.8 - 102.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Other nominations I agree with:
A- -> A
A+ -> A- / A
A+ -> S-
B+ -> B- / B

 

[OneSmogonCopyer]

This was a quite underrated comment. The lower rankings are indeed too much forgotten. I hope the next VR includes these ranks.

C- -> UR
Conkeldurr is outclassed by better Fighting-types like Urshifu-R and Buzzwole, and by other slow Wallbreakers like Melmetal and Nidoking. Its pure Fighting-type doesn't help either. Celesteela is outclassed by Skarmory and Corviknight, and it is a lot passive.

C -> UR / C-
Shuckle is very passive and the meta is too oppressive, and it is outclassed by Ribombee, which has access to Roost and Quiver Dance, besides a secondary Fairy-type. Obstagoon hits hard, especially with a STAB Knock Off; however, it doesn't have longevity and its speed is not enough in this fast-paced meta.

B -> C+ / B-
Although Swampert is a rocker and pivot, it is so slow and quite vulnerable to Toxic. It is outclassed by better Stealth Rock setters, like Garchomp, Tyranitar, and even Excadrill.

C+ -> B- / B
These two are not starts, but they should be ranked in the kingdom of the Bs. Gengar is a potent Stall/Wallbreaker (please read here). Yes, Mamoswine is outclassed by Weavile, however, I think it can hurt hard top threats like Corviknight, Landorus-T, and Dragapult with priority, and Earthquake destroys Heatran (Mamo is a bit faster) and Toxapex.

Mamoswine Calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 288-342 (94.7 - 112.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Corviknight: 219-258 (54.7 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 272-324 (85.8 - 102.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Other nominations I agree with:
A- -> A
A+ -> A- / A
A+ -> S-
B+ -> B- / B

Regarding Shuckle and Pert, I disagree about the reasonings. First Shuckle. Ribombee doesnt have access to rocks nor something like encore and Final Gambit and is forced to run sash due to its frailty. While Ribombee does have neat things like Stun spore, from what your describing, you dont use Ribombee like a sash lead and if you are not using Shuckle as a lead.... what are you using it for?

Now Regarding Pert, it doesnt get outclassed by those you mentioned imo. They cant fulfill the role of being able to take a hit, slow flip turn out to its stronger teammates like Blacephalon, Lele or Kyurem. The only thing I can think of they're better at is
1.) Chomp is better at dishing damage but not necessarily better at taking hits. Especially when it comes to fairies
2.) Ttar is better at taking hits and dishing damage. Especially since its typing is great at taking damage from the special nukes running amok right now. But it cant block volt switch nor can bring out its teammate with Pivoting
3.) Exca is only better at being a ""rocker"" than Pert when against Lele. Any other and it loses to quite a lot of special nukes. And maybe Koko. But Exca is not really used as a rocker but as a breaker or sweeper in sand which Pert will never achieve due to its ability
While I do agree that Pert is underwhelming, it is not "outclassed" by the mons you mentioned

Also last one. Mamoswine. Weavile can also do those things though? Especially with regards to priority. What is so special about Mamoswine's Prio move compared to Weavile's prio move? They hit the same targets and Rillaboom beats out Mamo's Ice Shard meaning it can kill Mamo before Mamo can hit it. One thing I can think of with Mamoswine being better is it hits harder than Weavile. Another thing is that Mamoswine is neutral to rocks and can block Volt switches unlike Weavile which trades a ground typing for a ghost resist. And also Pex and Tran matchup is better agreed. But why are they staying in on Mamo? Other than the enemy not having any other choice

 

[alkazoth]

A --> A+

It's about time Tapu Fini rises to A+. This mon has been on fire as of recent, being able to run a variety of sets, including cm, scarf, and even whirlpool trapping sets. Fini's strongest asset is its defensive utility, with a great typing for a defensive mon (water/fairy) and overall solid bulk of 70/115/130. Taunt is a great asset that allows for it to set up with cm without allowing other mons such as clef to set up as well. Being able to set up misterrain on switch in is another unique capability it possesses, which makes it so status such as para and poison can't be used on it while it's out on the field, either tricking its scarf to an unfortunate special wall or setting up with cm. My favorite has to be the water/fairy typing it also possesses, allowing for it to check an onslaught of threats out on the field, whether it be pult, watershifu, weav, tran, hydra, etc. All of these threats are hard hitting offensive mons who are relevant to the meta rn, and fini being able to check them and more while also possessing defensive utility such as trick, taunt, defog, and its ability misty surge. With all of these qualities making it perfect for this meta, I really so think it's about time we move this mon up a subrank, it deserves it.

 

[Clone]

Hello everyone, I wanted to post about a mon that I've been playing around with quite a bit. That mon being Arctozolt. Currently, it sits in C rank. I believe it should rise, at least to B. Dragon Claw explained it pretty well in his post. This thing just murks a lot of the standard structures you currently see. Its no secret that the most consistent play style currently is some variant of BO with some breakers and pivots with something to clean up (usually a Weavile). Any team with Corv as the steel is gonna have a rough time trying to stall out hail turns, as Zolt's BoltBeam coverage is so strong half the time all you have to do is click the super effective move and you're gonna make a lot of progress. Its best set right now is the following:

Arctozolt @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 48 SpA / 208 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Substitute
- Bolt Beak
- Blizzard / Freeze Dry
- Low Kick

Enough speed for Koko, rest in SpAtk to power up Blizzard (or Freeze Dry if you're scared of the Water/Grounds). Zolt forces a lot of switches so it easily gets a Sub up. From there it just picks. Take the following replay:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1392456194

By turn 14, the game is basically over. My opponent's defensive core is murked by Zolt. And this replay is pretty standard for a Hail team facing a structure like this. Once Zolt is in it starts claiming kills. And while one might think that this is just something that happens on the ladder, you're seeing Zolt make appearances in Tournament play too. Take Dragon Claw Vs TDK in WCoP tiebreaks:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-570511

TDK played really well, but Dragon Claw won in the Teambuilder and brought a team that took full advantage of South's teambuilding trends. South was very on top of the metagame during the tournament and brought teams that always had a relatively favorable match up throughout the tournament, but in this case, those trends were taken full advantage of. Zolt murked the team it faced (and I don't really think the freeze at the end mattered all that much). OLT was another tournament where people brought Hail to take advantage of metagame trends. A few people laddered almost exclusively with Hail and did very well. There are a bunch of replays out there that showcase similar games to the two I have in this post.

Now for all the great things I have to say about Arctozolt, it's not all bells and whistles. It is very reliant on Hail, as its abhorrent speed tier outside of its weather leaves it outsped by common metagame staples, to include defensive mons like Lando T and Heatran. Zolt's typing is excellent offensively, but its the exact opposite defensively, leaving it weak to the most spammed moves. And while Zolt has passable bulk vs defensive mons, it doesn't hold up to common offensive threats when it has to take a hit first.

All things considered, Arctozolt is due for a rise. C is vastly underselling it. I don't want to overreact to what might be a passing fad that is quickly adapted to, but I think B is a good fit for it. I think it might be better than that, but I feel its best to see how the metagame adapts to this threat.

 

[Katy]

While everyone is talking about the abuser I feel like can also rise to B- as it enables arctozolt in what it is doing it also enables other dangerous pokemon such as kyurem, dragapult, garchomp, and many more setup sweepers and wallbreakers in a similar vein. with it being capable of setting veil due to the fantastic speed tier it provides, the general great options and supportive tools in encore, hypnosis and even disable, and even moves like hail to deter the weather upon the switch of an enemy weather setter and freeze-dry and even moonblast as great coverage options, it is the best selling point to grant this playstyle -- hail -- and furthermore veil offense a great place in the metagame. alola-ninetales also has risen alot in its usage during olt, as hail / veil is trending a lot and with high ladder- and wcop replays and its capability to even threaten common pokemon directly with its stabs, it has a grants itself alot of opportunities to set up the aurora veil. icy rock can be chosen with arctozolt to extend its turns to break with slush rush, and it can still function as a veil setter which gives ninetales alola more than enough tools to support its teammates in a safe and dangerous way.

I feel like both ice-types should rise, arctozolt and ninetales-alola, the abuser and the enabler.