Pet Mod SS OU Theorymon

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we're back :]

the tour's not done since it's just 3 people left, but we've gotten quite the few replays and discussions. you can check the viability ranking here which will be added in the OP some time soon (ardy only posted the updated up there)

so without further ado!

:ss/stunfisk-galar: + Regenerator + Toxic
:ss/lanturn: + Recover + 20 SpDEF
:ss/rotom-fan: + Magic Bounce + Recover
:ss/palossand: + Water Absorb
:ss/vanilluxe: + Ground type + Earth Power (STAB) + 20 SPE


as usual, 5 days of discussion!

edit: fucking forgor. rebuff submissions has been opened! check it out in our discord for it!
 

Ema Skye

Work!
is a Pre-Contributor
:stunfisk-galar: So done with using Regen as the way to buff a mon. Pass (and slate Gigas!!)
:lanturn: Washtom sidegrade, but I would prefer more SpA instead as it's very passive (unlike Gigas!).
:rotom-fan: Pretty cool. I've lost count of the number of Magic Bounce subs so I'm not sure how many are actually in, but I'm not opposed here.
:palossand: Also really done with the fat Grounds and the fat Ghosts. This is boring. Yes it's supposed to beat Keldeo (but so goes Gigas!)
:vanilluxe: Special Mamoswine, okay. I think I'm more into it than I should be given how the rest of the slate feels kinda boring (which Gigas is not!)
 

G-Luke

#Cunogate
is a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
:stunfisk-galar: So done with using Regen as the way to buff a mon. Pass (and slate Gigas!!)
:lanturn: Washtom sidegrade, but I would prefer more SpA instead as it's very passive (unlike Gigas!).
:rotom-fan: Pretty cool. I've lost count of the number of Magic Bounce subs so I'm not sure how many are actually in, but I'm not opposed here.
:palossand: Also really done with the fat Grounds and the fat Ghosts. This is boring. Yes it's supposed to beat Keldeo (but so goes Gigas!)
:vanilluxe: Special Mamoswine, okay. I think I'm more into it than I should be given how the rest of the slate feels kinda boring (which Gigas is not!)
Didnt Regigigas flop because the sub was (rightfully) garbage?
 

scorbunnys

Don't dream your life, but live your dream. #Bunny
Really solid post Ardy! This is the actual VR as for now (s/o ImpSquare and everyone else who's posted their noms in discord, also thank u for your amazing job leading the mod).
Anyways, I'll talk a little bit about my thoughts on some mons in the mod.
:Ss/Latias::SS/Sylveon: They're without a doubt the best fairies (and top 10 mons probably) in the metagame due to their wide movepool (especially in Latias case), solid stats, and typings that allow them to perfectly perform their roles.
Latias on one hand is a great CM sweeper able to threaten most teams with its great coverage and access to reliable recovery, but it can also be a really solid Choice Scarf users with Healing Wish for some offensive teams since it can revenge kill a lot of the faster mons (Dragapult is a great example) and Healing Wish is a quite cool move overall. I've also seen some defensive and Specs sets that are probably okay.
Sylveon on other hand is also a solid CM sweeper able to abuse its perfect coverage (only checked by blobs) with fine defensive utility that allows it to switch on things like Zeraora or Latios while Wish sets straight up wall a good part of the metagame. Choice Specs has also popped up recently as a strong wallbreaker able to act as a Volt immune mon.
TLDR; They both are insane.

:SS/copperajah: I've been using this mon a lot lately and it's legitimately good! It's got crazy dual STAB which paired with its great Atk stat can go nuts against many teams (especially unprepared ones ofc). I personally enjoy using Stealth Rock sets, as it can beat nearly every hazard removal user (not even Zapdos is safe as Liquidation chunks it), but more offensive-based sets are also good, as they hit through the entire metagame. It can also check all fairies that ain't Sylveon or Tapu Koko, Tornadus-T and can take hits from Heatran, Dragapult and it 1v1s basically half the metagame. Still slowass but this mon is tanking almost everything so that's not a huge problem for it.

:Ss/Raikou: I really wanna talk about this mon because it just...disappeared? It was already struggling when stuff like Latias, Sylveon, and Tangrowth came out, but now it's just dropped off almost completely with new additions like Dragalge, Krookodile, Goodra, Flygon, and with Rotom-Mow becoming a thing right now, this mon dropped to the B ranks (spoiler: I'm 95% sure this mon will continue dropping) as it just underperforms against many teams due to how situational Competitive is and it's Speed being actually...quite solid but nowhere what it used to be two generations ago. Still, a powerhouse on Spikes teams but even then Zeraora, Zapdos, and Tapu Koko are, while less common, relatively solid picks there. I want to know what y'all think about this mon though, I personally think it's still viable but not the powerhouse it once was.

:SS/clefable: This mon managed to survive the power creep increase and the fairy propaganda and idk how to feel about it. SR sets are as good as ever, as they got no competence, but CM also stayed viable despite the addition of two great CMers in Sylveon and Latias, as unlike them it has Magic Guard and reliable recovery to stand out over Sylveon. Honestly, all its sets outside from maybe Wish are as viable as always, so yeah this mon is a survivor and might probably see an uptick in usage in the future (though it surely dislikes Celebi addition, but it'll always survive).

:Ss/Obstagoon::SS/milotic::SS/haxorus::SS/darmanitan::SS/Dhelmise::SS/Virizion::SS/krookodile::SS/mamoswine::SS/zarude: Many physical attackers rose in viability here. Obstagoon on one hand has gained traction recently due to its decent Speed Tier that allows it to outspeed GZap, Urshifu-RS, Celebi, Darmanitan, and Tapu Lele while it also hits really hard with Facade and Knock Off. Milotic somehow overcame the predictions and became one of the best offensive Water-Types on the tier due to its great Atk stat with Huge Power and access to stuff like Coil, Dragon Dance, and Flip Turn that just enhance its offensive potential. Haxorus is just kinda busted already (not 100% sold on it though) and it goes wild against most teams with its boosting sets. Darmanitan has been already mentioned by Winter but just click Flare Blitz and get away with it. Dhelmise should get more usage as Poltergeist + Anchor Shot is a dope STAB combo and it also gets some neat tools like Rapid Spin or neat coverage in Power Whip. Virizion honestly goes wild against most teams that don't really have a strong check for it like Zapdos, Celebi, or Tornadus-T, and even then it pairs up very well with stuff like CM Sylveon and Zapdos who beat those quite easily. Krookodile Choice Band should see more usage since Ground-Dark coverage is just really hard to wall and it gets a solid Speed Tier + U-turn as well. Mamoswine and Zarude fall in the category of outclassed physical breakers, although they still have their niches but overall, you're better off running Weavile.

:SS/Corviknight: This is a vanilla mon that didn't really survive the metagame at all and it's expected to drop even further in the future due to Noctowl's and Latios's addition, who's way less passive and can perform more roles at the same time, but also some trends like CM MFire Sylveon/Latias or new additions like Latios or Raikou the others are new additions as well but w/e just contributed to its huge downfall in viability. Still, an ok defogger and might probably see more exploration at some point? Only time will tell but overall, it's quite likely it still just keeps dropping in usage.

Some subs I'd like to see in (6 subs of mine and 5 other subs:
If this is not allowed, just hit me up
:Heliolisk: +Nasty Plot +20 Spe: Honestly, this is a great buff for it imo, as now it can act as a powerful (albeit fishy) setup sweeper able to tear apart a lot of cores that rely on Ground-types as their Electric Resists (even Sylveon gets tear apart by LO +2 Surf KOes under Rain) while it also gets a much better match-up against offense due to its increased Speed Tier.
:Espeon: +Fighting/Psychic (+Aura Sphere) +Nasty Plot: Another Nasty Plot wallbreaker I know but honestly I don't believe this is really a bad idea, as now we get a fantastic Magic Bouncer for Offensive Teams that can also break through unprepared teams quite efficiently. Might not be top tier tho.
:Mienshao: +Fairy/Fighting (+Spirit Break) +17 Spe: It gets a much better typing able to take Knock Offs (tho it's still sorta crippled by these) while it also gets Spirit Break, which allows it to get some annoying SpA drops in order to function as a more annoying pivot, especially in AV sets. It's better Speed Tier allows it to outspeed stuff like Raikou, Starmie, Tornadus-T, Latias and others. Oh yeah and having a dragon immunity is also quite nice too.
:Primarina: +Comatose +15 Def: Now that it got URed, it can actually get two buffs and now it can actually compete with Tapu Fini, as even though it doesn't have the utility toolkit that Fini has (Defog, Taunt, Knock Off, Trick and Misty Surge to support teammates), it still can act as a dummy strong CM sweeper that hits even harder than it while it still has what it needs or a fine pivot. Defense addition helps it to switch into stuff like Dragonite or Milotic (CB Double-Edge goes dummy tho).
:Passimian: +Normal/Fighting (+Body Slam) +20 Spe: MLop 2.0 is back and I'm here for it oh wait, actually, it's my sub!!! (But yeah now it turns into a quite solid Scarfer that can really hit hard with Close Combat and spread paras with Body Slam if wanted because RNGesus, but it's surely kinda weak still).
:Drapion: +Slack Off +Thick Fat: S/o ImpSquare for the concept.
I tried to capitalize on its really good defensive typing and two crucial utility moves in Toxic Spikes and Knock Off, so I decided to give it reliable recovery to stay healthy throughout the game and it allows it to check stuff. Here though, is where stuff gets much more interesting, Thick Fat allows it to check a wider amount of pokemon in Weavile, Blacephalon, Glastrier to an extent if not running High Horsepower, Volcarona, and Cloyster while still checking what it needs to like Glowking, Shadow Ball-locked Dragapult, Zarude, Tangrowth and even Zeraora straight-up. That being said, its middling bulk kinda limits it and it faces competition with Toxapex, but it's still a quite neat wall able to tank stuff decently enough while having good offensive power.
Shamefully copied from: My own sub description in OU theory server.
:Scizor: +20 HP: Honestly this is a huge improve for it as a whole, since now it can setup with more ease, can wall stuff much more easily and many other stuff. Won't really go further into it.

As for the other people subs... I'll just mention them because I'm lazy.

:Regigigas: +Normal/Poison (+Poison Jab) +Neutralizing Gas
:Unfezant: +Triple Axel +Ground/Flying (+Earthquake)
:Rhyperior: +Ground/Fire (+Flare Blitz) +Rough Skin > Reckless
:Umbreon: +Fairy/Dark (+Nature's Madness) +Recover

:Slowbro-Galar: +Water/Poison (+Octazooka) +20 SpD
:Zarude: +Intimidate
(an extra for re-sub slate).
Ok so, this slate came faster than I expected, so I'll give my quick thoughts on the subs:
:Vanilluxe: Yeah I made this one and it's basically Special Mamoswine but with some characteristics on its own, as it can unironically be a solid Hail Setter due to its Electric immunity, access to an almost unwallable STAB combo that alongside Arctozolt it can outright smash teams and more importantly, it can hit Steel-Types. Oh yeah and it now hits a quite cool Speed Tier of 99 (aka one point above Urshifu-RS) so we chillin'.

:Rotom-Fan: I see the appeal and I actually like it, it seems like a solid MBouncer since while it's not beating all the SR users around the world, it still has some nice perks for a defensive mon like reliable recovery (now!), Volt Switch and it gets some nice utility in Will-O-Wisp as well. Honestly my favorite sub, as it also beats some Haxorus sets, so it has my vote.

:Stunfisk-Galar: While I'm tired of Regenerator subs, I still like the concept, as being a Ground-Type that compresses Steel-Type + Stealth Rock + Lati@s check in one slot is like, a godsend for this meta. It's still Stunfisk-Galar and as such it still has its issues, so not sure if I'm voting for this.

:Palossand: I kinda see the appeal but we already have enough Physical Defensive Ground-Types, though if this sub came at slate 4/5 I'd probably have voted for it, but now it just doesn't seem needed. Plus like we don't need a Raikou hard counter anymore lmao we already have enough, let it at least stay at B ranks, like poor dog fr :(.

:Lanturn: Sidegrade Rotom-Wash yeah!! I honestly would 100% use it if this came out as it has some nice traits in Heal Bell, Volt Absorb and Scald already, but now with Recover and better bulk is just really cool (though I agree with Ema, +20 SpA would've been better). Probably voting for this as well.

:Rotom-Fan: > the rest > :palossand:
 
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:ss/stunfisk-galar: + Regenerator + Toxic : rocks, steel, lati check. Good. loses to banded crobat idk kinda boring
:ss/rotom-fan: + Magic Bounce + Recover: yooo give it its own thing. Its like natu but more fun, helps with spikes. Beats most rockers. Has volt switch and wisp and stuff, also can beat some setup sweepers in the meta. Fun.
:ss/palossand: + Water Absorb: uhh boring. physdef ground because we definitely don't have enough of those
:ss/vanilluxe: + Ground type + Earth Power (STAB) + 20 SPE: mamoswine but special. Fun
:rotom fan: >:lanturn:> :vanilluxe: > :stunfisk galar: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> palossand (doesnt deserve a sprite) (it killed my parents)
 
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:Stunfisk-galar: the only regenerator steel as well as being the only regen rocker not called corsola.
:Palossand: My sub. This thing got subbed way back in the days of tough claws Zarude. It just so happens that Keldeo exists now, but the point was to be a ground type that also checks rain and Shifu.
:Rotom-fan: I might just vote for this thing on flavor alone. Bouncer that beats a surprising amount of rockers while also have Rotom form levels of utility.
:Vanilluxe: Look a hail setter not weak to the stealthy stones! With a decent speed and the power of blizzard, ice cream cone will be a strong, if team specific, breaker.
:Lanturn: Nothing to say that someone else hasn’t. Cool sub.
 
:stunfisk-galar: One word: Meh. Getting tired of Regen to buff mons too. Okay after looking at Beaf Cultist's explanation I kinda want to vote this in now. Still a bit meh but at least it can handle the Latitwins.
:lanturn: IT'S ROTOM-WASH. I actually kind of like it though, pretty bulky but I wish the +20 points were dropped into SpA, like Ema Skye said.
:rotom-fan: The best submission of this slate, probably by far. It can come in on the bulky SR setters and Magic Bounce the rocks they're trying to set which is really cool. Flying-type irks me (probably runs HDB as its item?) but aside from that it's pretty decent.
:palossand: I get what they were trying to do with this, but like everyone said, we already have enough bulky Ground-types. Worst submission this slate tbh
:vanilluxe: Mamoswine but special and can set up Snow. I dig it.

:rotom-fan: > :lanturn: = :vanilluxe: =:stunfisk-galar: > :palossand: (pa-LOSS-and, get it?)
 
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the hivemind is strong

just gonna drop in and point out that gunfisk is a godsend for a meta that struggles to handle the latis, particularly latios. nearly every latios set is snuffed by spdef gunfisk, with the only set that can break it being the rarely-seen specs mfire (which barely 2HKOs, meaning you can easily switch out into a fire resist and regen off most of the damage). being able to safely switch in and capitalize on free turns given by latios of all mons can be massive for teams, and while gunfisk absolutely has passivity issues, i think these benefits should not be glossed over.
 
the hivemind is strong

just gonna drop in and point out that gunfisk is a godsend for a meta that struggles to handle the latis, particularly latios. nearly every latios set is snuffed by spdef gunfisk, with the only set that can break it being the rarely-seen specs mfire (which barely 2HKOs, meaning you can easily switch out into a fire resist and regen off most of the damage). being able to safely switch in and capitalize on free turns given by latios of all mons can be massive for teams, and while gunfisk absolutely has passivity issues, i think these benefits should not be glossed over.
its stunfisk
i rest my case
pancake lookin ass
 
Alright, voting is now open!

Also, we’re changing up voting just a little bit. From now on, you may choose to only vote for one of the slated Pokemon. If you do this, your other vote will be considered ‘blank’. If ‘blank’ votes are in the top 2 highest-voted options, then only 1 Pokemon will win in that slate. Hopefully this will help mitigate concerns during weaker slates, though we still want at least one winner every slate.
 

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