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Project SS UU Research Week - UU RESEARCH - Week 42 Roost Hydreigon and Any sets Crobat - New System !
- Thread starter KSt3ve
- Start date
I chose silvally steel this week. Going to keep this one short as im typing this on my phone:
+ offensive steel type that hits hard after a swords dance
+ flame charge +2 multiattack sweeps (as pinkdragontamer showed me on the ladder)
- needs wish support
- running defog on it as the meta is now
- fighting types have seen a rise in usage right now
Got to 1500
and fell down after eating a few losses/tilts
I switched around between a support set running defog toxic with a lot of HP investment and a max attack offensive defog version with swords dance, multiattack and a move i kept changing-.
The team i used was full of holes but fun to play with. Main problem was running into the centipede, haze milotic, psychic surge, ..
There are far better mons to slap defog on than silvally steel. Its speed tier is good but to me it is much more useful as an offensive option. The mons i brought it into the most to defog on where weezing, roserade, fat waters and bronzong. Weezing might pack a fire attack so thats something to keep in mind. As fighting types see a lot of usage those nearly always came in on the defog. That is not a good thing as machamp is a nuke and dents everything even with parting shot help. I can type a few more lines but those would only underline my opinion that an offensive silvally steel set is the one to use right now and to not waste a slot on defog:)
+ offensive steel type that hits hard after a swords dance
+ flame charge +2 multiattack sweeps (as pinkdragontamer showed me on the ladder)
- needs wish support
- running defog on it as the meta is now
- fighting types have seen a rise in usage right now
Got to 1500
and fell down after eating a few losses/tilts
I switched around between a support set running defog toxic with a lot of HP investment and a max attack offensive defog version with swords dance, multiattack and a move i kept changing-.
The team i used was full of holes but fun to play with. Main problem was running into the centipede, haze milotic, psychic surge, ..
There are far better mons to slap defog on than silvally steel. Its speed tier is good but to me it is much more useful as an offensive option. The mons i brought it into the most to defog on where weezing, roserade, fat waters and bronzong. Weezing might pack a fire attack so thats something to keep in mind. As fighting types see a lot of usage those nearly always came in on the defog. That is not a good thing as machamp is a nuke and dents everything even with parting shot help. I can type a few more lines but those would only underline my opinion that an offensive silvally steel set is the one to use right now and to not waste a slot on defog:)
I've been testing and building etc. Consider this a reserved post that I will edit with my submission later
Vikavolt and steelvally
Ok so I've never participated in research week before but this looked too fun to pass up, with both these Mons getting what you could be considered "significant buffs" this gen in HDB and multi attacks power increase, I decided to give it a go. So without further ado, let me get into the team and my thought process in trying out these Mons.
So I before I came up with any solid ideas I thought tried alot of stuff in the builder. I tried putting together very offensive spreads for both Mons, excited at the prospect of a high special atk stat and the combination of swords dance + a stronger stab for silvally, however I found vikavolt found it difficult to make opertunities Vs more offensive teams due to is abisamal speed and since I picked up this challenge with very little knowledge of the teir this gen, I found fitting both these on a team somewhat of a challenge. So considered taking more of a fatty wish direction as this is mainly what I have personally found to be most consistent and easiest to build in this meta and It was not long before I found the sleeper threat that is defensive boots vikavolt!
Boots vikavolt I have found to be incredibly threatening, it remains still a menace to switch into while simultaneously doubling the amount of Pokémon it can come in on to dish out its big attacks! Here's what I've been using.
So to explain the EVs and moves
To explain the EVs and moves
Ok so ill try and keep the word count down now cause this is drawing on, if I had time then I would talk about the full process and development, shoutouts to esta for helping with the fine-tuning, most of this is standard sets but I'll talk a little about each to explain the techs and nuances! (Ofc vikavolt and steelvally explained above)
To conclude!
I think that this team was quite a successful endeavour as only my second SS UU team this year I found the bug and the doge to have very notable niches and it has really sparked my interest and drawn me into this metagame once again!
My Thanks to the person whose idea this was and also to Estarossa for putting up with my constant badgering with regards to SS UU
And ofc thanks for reading peeps! I hope you enjoyed as much as I did
Peace
Ok so I've never participated in research week before but this looked too fun to pass up, with both these Mons getting what you could be considered "significant buffs" this gen in HDB and multi attacks power increase, I decided to give it a go. So without further ado, let me get into the team and my thought process in trying out these Mons.
So I before I came up with any solid ideas I thought tried alot of stuff in the builder. I tried putting together very offensive spreads for both Mons, excited at the prospect of a high special atk stat and the combination of swords dance + a stronger stab for silvally, however I found vikavolt found it difficult to make opertunities Vs more offensive teams due to is abisamal speed and since I picked up this challenge with very little knowledge of the teir this gen, I found fitting both these on a team somewhat of a challenge. So considered taking more of a fatty wish direction as this is mainly what I have personally found to be most consistent and easiest to build in this meta and It was not long before I found the sleeper threat that is defensive boots vikavolt!
Boots vikavolt I have found to be incredibly threatening, it remains still a menace to switch into while simultaneously doubling the amount of Pokémon it can come in on to dish out its big attacks! Here's what I've been using.
Vikavolt @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Bug Buzz
- Roost
- Toxic
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Bug Buzz
- Roost
- Toxic
So to explain the EVs and moves
- 36 speed allows you to outspeed univested hippo
- With the rest bundled into hp and defence you notably avoid a 2hko from banded sirfechd't and can scout attacks Vs banded barreskewda
- A modest nature gives the highest stat point yeild and a big boost to damage output where defence benchmarks have already been met!
Silvally-Steel @ Steel Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 HP / 120 SpD / 136 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Defog
- Multi-Attack
- Thunder Wave
- Parting Shot
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 HP / 120 SpD / 136 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Defog
- Multi-Attack
- Thunder Wave
- Parting Shot
To explain the EVs and moves
- 136 speed EVs with a jolly nature is enough to outspeed +nature base 80s allowing you to parting shot out of counters for easier switch in, beatdown breakers such as mamoswine that are very difficult to switch into and even suicide twave/Defog in a pinch
- The rest of the EVs are bundled into hp and spdef to help check noivern and gardevoir
- Standard moveset with a choice of twave to cripple speedy sweepers and make them revengable such as outrage locked haxourus which can potentially claim multiple kills Vs the team i built in the lategame.
Ok so ill try and keep the word count down now cause this is drawing on, if I had time then I would talk about the full process and development, shoutouts to esta for helping with the fine-tuning, most of this is standard sets but I'll talk a little about each to explain the techs and nuances! (Ofc vikavolt and steelvally explained above)
- Scarf Chandelure provides a revenge killer breaker and tool to cripple fat in one slot, it acts as a Mon that I can use to take advantage of non protect galar weezing
- Vaporeon provides wish support which helps silvally steel and drapion alot in performing their roles in longer games, it also soft checks a huge portion of the metagame in one slot
- Spdef drapion with taunt, knock and toxic provides a potent stallbreaker, supported by wish it can be a real menace! Some of you may have noticed infestation on this set and while that may seem headass let me explain!
Infestation not only allows you to toxic trap annoying Mons such as umbreon that make the mistake of staying in but more importantly it can clean up a chipped galar weezing, be sure to knock it off and get rocks chip etc first but infestation will do 12.5% a turn + 4-5% from knock, this adds up especially on a weezing that is at 70% or lower, not unreasonable if we assume rocks were up and it's the second time it's came in with no lefties! Meanwhile max spdef drapion will much on offensive strange steam a good couple of times, allowing you to actually beat galar weezing ( I will like a replay example here for your amusement)
It's quite low ladder the replay and the situation isn't 100% representative of higher level play with me getting my drapion mistakenly burnt and him only having sludge bomb, but if you imagine the sludge bomb damage X2 and then me still with black sludge recovery you will see that drapion would still make the 1v1. I think this tech could catch on if People tried it!
It's quite low ladder the replay and the situation isn't 100% representative of higher level play with me getting my drapion mistakenly burnt and him only having sludge bomb, but if you imagine the sludge bomb damage X2 and then me still with black sludge recovery you will see that drapion would still make the 1v1. I think this tech could catch on if People tried it!
- Mamoswine is the final component, it is my rock setter and provides powerful offensive capabilities with LO boosted moves! Ice shard provides incredible utility in cleaning up threatening sweepers and allowing mamo to guarentee a ko on the threatening roserade after rocks
Shoutouts to esta for helping here, I did have metronome and it felt like a weak link, life orb was a good call and improved the team matchup Vs faster offensive teams immensely
To conclude!
I think that this team was quite a successful endeavour as only my second SS UU team this year I found the bug and the doge to have very notable niches and it has really sparked my interest and drawn me into this metagame once again!
My Thanks to the person whose idea this was and also to Estarossa for putting up with my constant badgering with regards to SS UU
And ofc thanks for reading peeps! I hope you enjoyed as much as I did
Peace
I only tested one Vikavolt set this week but let me tell you: it's really fun.
Vikavolt @ Metronome
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 68 HP / 252 SpA / 188 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Bug Buzz
- Roost
Vikavolt's typing, bulk, and enormous natural SpAtk reminds me a lot of a mon I like using in OU: SubRoost Metronome Kyurem, and the two work in similar ways. Vikavolt has the ability to break stall through virtue of its high BP STAB moves, the aforementioned bulk, and Metronome. It has a harder time ramping up than Kyurem because it's so slow, lacks Pressure, and Electric/Bug gets stopped handily by Rhyperior and other fat Rocks, but when it does, it's pretty scary.
Metronome is the big reason why this stallbreaks, but Boots would go a long way to keeping this thing healthy over time. The EVs were lifted straight from an old NU set and can definitely be tweaked to be better. This spread does let you outspeed Umbreon, which is cool as they like to try to Toxic you, and Foul Play has a chance not to break your Sub.
SQUAAAAAAAAAAD shoutouts to UU Discord for advice because I'm bad :3
Don't have much to say about Steelvally since I couldn't build a team I liked but a Defogger susceptible to Webs feelsbadman. Would've been nice to drop Defog this week for a free slot. Oh well.
Vikavolt @ Metronome
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 68 HP / 252 SpA / 188 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Bug Buzz
- Roost
Vikavolt's typing, bulk, and enormous natural SpAtk reminds me a lot of a mon I like using in OU: SubRoost Metronome Kyurem, and the two work in similar ways. Vikavolt has the ability to break stall through virtue of its high BP STAB moves, the aforementioned bulk, and Metronome. It has a harder time ramping up than Kyurem because it's so slow, lacks Pressure, and Electric/Bug gets stopped handily by Rhyperior and other fat Rocks, but when it does, it's pretty scary.
Metronome is the big reason why this stallbreaks, but Boots would go a long way to keeping this thing healthy over time. The EVs were lifted straight from an old NU set and can definitely be tweaked to be better. This spread does let you outspeed Umbreon, which is cool as they like to try to Toxic you, and Foul Play has a chance not to break your Sub.
SQUAAAAAAAAAAD shoutouts to UU Discord for advice because I'm bad :3
Don't have much to say about Steelvally since I couldn't build a team I liked but a Defogger susceptible to Webs feelsbadman. Would've been nice to drop Defog this week for a free slot. Oh well.
Week 2 is now over. Congratulations to Critsomnia for winning this week !
Silvally-Steel turned out to be a relatively subpar defogger. Its typing and bulk let it switch into a decent number of Pokémon like Gardevoir, Roserade or Galarian Weezing and force them out with its powerful Multi-Attack, giving it ample opportunities to remove hazards. It was however held back by its lack of recovery on top of being hurt by Spikes meaning Silvally could get worn down by chip damage pretty easily, making Wish support seem mandatory as pointed out by watermess and Critsomnia. Critsomnia also pointed out that several threatening pokémon can take advantage of Silvally being on the field to Defog, such as Machamp or Chandelure, making building around Silvally-Steel a problem at times.
Vikavolt got some pretty positive feedback from watermess and Rawbi, pointing out how threatening its STAB combination coupled with its high base 145 SpA was, letting the bug seriously threaten any defensive core. Vikavolt was however seriously held back by its incredibly low speed that prevents it from doing much against more offensive teams, and forcing it to take hits pretty often. watermess managed to mitigate this issue thanks to Heavy-Duty Boots nullifying Vikavolt's weakness to Stealth Rock and heavily investing into its defenses, letting it take many more hits while still applying heavy pressure to the various walls in the tier. Rawbi on the other hand tried out a Substitute set holding a Metronome, trading longevity for maximized efficiency against defensive teams thanks to a protection against status and the bonus power of Metronome.
Here are next week's picks :
For this week we'll look at some of the newest additions to the tier.
Celebi was a huge presence back in the gen7UU metagame. Now that it's back, we want you to test out its potential as a Stealth Rock setter this generation.
Cobalion is another old superstar making its comeback this generation. Its Stealth Rock sets are already proving to be a force to be reckoned with, so we want you to try out another of its old sets, the Double Dance set, and see how well it keeps up in this metagame.
Our last pick this week, Incineroar, wasn't ever seen in UU in the previous generation. Will the addition of Heavy-Duty Boots and the reduced power levels be enough for it to shine this time ?
In order to participate you must do the following:
Week 3 deadline: Sunday March 8th at 11:59 PM GMT -6
Silvally-Steel turned out to be a relatively subpar defogger. Its typing and bulk let it switch into a decent number of Pokémon like Gardevoir, Roserade or Galarian Weezing and force them out with its powerful Multi-Attack, giving it ample opportunities to remove hazards. It was however held back by its lack of recovery on top of being hurt by Spikes meaning Silvally could get worn down by chip damage pretty easily, making Wish support seem mandatory as pointed out by watermess and Critsomnia. Critsomnia also pointed out that several threatening pokémon can take advantage of Silvally being on the field to Defog, such as Machamp or Chandelure, making building around Silvally-Steel a problem at times.
Vikavolt got some pretty positive feedback from watermess and Rawbi, pointing out how threatening its STAB combination coupled with its high base 145 SpA was, letting the bug seriously threaten any defensive core. Vikavolt was however seriously held back by its incredibly low speed that prevents it from doing much against more offensive teams, and forcing it to take hits pretty often. watermess managed to mitigate this issue thanks to Heavy-Duty Boots nullifying Vikavolt's weakness to Stealth Rock and heavily investing into its defenses, letting it take many more hits while still applying heavy pressure to the various walls in the tier. Rawbi on the other hand tried out a Substitute set holding a Metronome, trading longevity for maximized efficiency against defensive teams thanks to a protection against status and the bonus power of Metronome.
Here are next week's picks :
Celebi @any item
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs :
Nature :
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
-
-
-
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs :
Nature :
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
-
-
-
Cobalion @any item
Ability: Justified
EVs :
Nature :
IVs: 0 Atk
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish
-
-
Ability: Justified
EVs :
Nature :
IVs: 0 Atk
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish
-
-
Incineroar @any item
Ability:
EVs :
-
-
-
-
Ability:
EVs :
-
-
-
-
For this week we'll look at some of the newest additions to the tier.
Celebi was a huge presence back in the gen7UU metagame. Now that it's back, we want you to test out its potential as a Stealth Rock setter this generation.
Cobalion is another old superstar making its comeback this generation. Its Stealth Rock sets are already proving to be a force to be reckoned with, so we want you to try out another of its old sets, the Double Dance set, and see how well it keeps up in this metagame.
Our last pick this week, Incineroar, wasn't ever seen in UU in the previous generation. Will the addition of Heavy-Duty Boots and the reduced power levels be enough for it to shine this time ?
In order to participate you must do the following:
- Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as SSRW3 Daiyaga or SSRW3 Cake) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
- Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
- Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
- Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - don't just tell us, show us
- The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends. Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame.
Week 3 deadline: Sunday March 8th at 11:59 PM GMT -6
SSRW3 Crit.so
Celebi :)
Celebi :)
I'm posting now because I don't feel too compelled to play more outside of a few ladder games and some friendly battles. I'll share the Veil squad I used for a bit because I had fun using Power Trip Incineroar.
Power Trip Incineroar is a pretty cool set to use but it basically can't function on anything other than screens. It also takes a lot of boosts with Flame Charge or Bulk Up to really get going so not many players are just going to let it accumulate so many. It can catch quite a lot of people off guard when you activate its Weakness Policy and lack the priority to revenge kill it. Really not much to say on it, it's just a small gimmick it can have. You would definitely have far more success just using SD + 3 Atks. I originally had Rhyperior on this squad but decided Toxtricity just works better and this lacked a SpA so yea...
Anyways, SpD bulky pivot Incineroar is a set I have been passing around a lot and it's definitely my favourite one to use. A Pokemon that is able to switch into Ghost-types is huge for it when it is something the tier is lacking greatly. You aren't overtly passive and provide a lot of utility through Parting Shot, Wisp, and Knock. Boots really helps this Mon like most Fire-types with it invalidating its hazard weakness. My main dislike with this set is that you can't touch Primarina, though potentially removing a Specs is helpful. No recovery can suck for it so you have to conserve its health well if you don't pair it with Vaporeon. Intimidate + Parting is also a great tool for shutting down many setup sweepers.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1072139672 - Power Trip Incin sweep
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1072138261 - An extra one of Coba flinching a Reuni 5 times :)
Power Trip Incineroar is a pretty cool set to use but it basically can't function on anything other than screens. It also takes a lot of boosts with Flame Charge or Bulk Up to really get going so not many players are just going to let it accumulate so many. It can catch quite a lot of people off guard when you activate its Weakness Policy and lack the priority to revenge kill it. Really not much to say on it, it's just a small gimmick it can have. You would definitely have far more success just using SD + 3 Atks. I originally had Rhyperior on this squad but decided Toxtricity just works better and this lacked a SpA so yea...
Anyways, SpD bulky pivot Incineroar is a set I have been passing around a lot and it's definitely my favourite one to use. A Pokemon that is able to switch into Ghost-types is huge for it when it is something the tier is lacking greatly. You aren't overtly passive and provide a lot of utility through Parting Shot, Wisp, and Knock. Boots really helps this Mon like most Fire-types with it invalidating its hazard weakness. My main dislike with this set is that you can't touch Primarina, though potentially removing a Specs is helpful. No recovery can suck for it so you have to conserve its health well if you don't pair it with Vaporeon. Intimidate + Parting is also a great tool for shutting down many setup sweepers.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1072139672 - Power Trip Incin sweep
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1072138261 - An extra one of Coba flinching a Reuni 5 times :)
SSRW3 Moist
Coba time because ihave a team for it already
Coba time because ihave a team for it already
Hey folks, this week I tested out DD Cobalion and rocks Celebi.
Stealth Rock Celebi was incredibly underwhelming in this meta. It's incapable of breaking common bulky Water-type Primarina answers like Vaporeon as a Grass-type, which is lame. I lost multiple games due to not being able to plot through Vaporeon or Mantine. It's not the most reliable of setters, either, given that it lets Noivern in pretty easily. I started with a bulkier Stealth Rock/Leaf Storm/Psychic/Recover set that outsped Gyarados and OHKOed uninvested Primarina, but then I pivoted to a full offensive set with Earth Power because it just wasn't doing enough for me. It still didn't do enough after that. I wouldn't recommend it.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1075740257 - Celebi gets walled by a Vaporeon
Now, DD coba is real good. It needs team support of course since it can't run Stone Edge for the myriad of things that hits, but when it gets the opportunity, BOY is it good at cleaning. It's especially threatening vs teams with Umbreon or Bronzong, since it can set up on those generally. I've been running Shuca Berry because it acts as an emergency button for Mamoswine and helps it set up against Bronzong and a couple other misc. things. It definitely needs its team support (vs Gyarados, Doublade, Toxtricity, etc.) to do its part, but it is very good at its role with said support.
Some replays of DD coba doing work because it had DD
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1075348363
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1075230250
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1075227339
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1075216911
Bonus: Golurk is good af right now. Primo toxtricity counter an offensive powerhouse. I ran sash rocks on my DD coba team and it worked pretty well.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1075221832
Stealth Rock Celebi was incredibly underwhelming in this meta. It's incapable of breaking common bulky Water-type Primarina answers like Vaporeon as a Grass-type, which is lame. I lost multiple games due to not being able to plot through Vaporeon or Mantine. It's not the most reliable of setters, either, given that it lets Noivern in pretty easily. I started with a bulkier Stealth Rock/Leaf Storm/Psychic/Recover set that outsped Gyarados and OHKOed uninvested Primarina, but then I pivoted to a full offensive set with Earth Power because it just wasn't doing enough for me. It still didn't do enough after that. I wouldn't recommend it.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1075740257 - Celebi gets walled by a Vaporeon
Now, DD coba is real good. It needs team support of course since it can't run Stone Edge for the myriad of things that hits, but when it gets the opportunity, BOY is it good at cleaning. It's especially threatening vs teams with Umbreon or Bronzong, since it can set up on those generally. I've been running Shuca Berry because it acts as an emergency button for Mamoswine and helps it set up against Bronzong and a couple other misc. things. It definitely needs its team support (vs Gyarados, Doublade, Toxtricity, etc.) to do its part, but it is very good at its role with said support.
Some replays of DD coba doing work because it had DD
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1075348363
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1075230250
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1075227339
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1075216911
Bonus: Golurk is good af right now. Primo toxtricity counter an offensive powerhouse. I ran sash rocks on my DD coba team and it worked pretty well.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1075221832
Mainly wanted to talk about Celebi on this post, but since we had no real discussion on Boots incineroar I included some brief comments on that too.
Stealth Rocks Celebi
Offensive Support Celebi
Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 136 HP / 176 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Healing Wish
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
Teams Built
Including the two teams I built with offensive Rocks Celebi here. Obviously with an offensive spread and Healing Wish > Recover, I was planning on using this for very offensive teams that would appreciate the healing wish support + role compresion Celebi offered.
DD Gyarados + Rocks Celebi Offense - click for importable.
Specs Blastoise + Rocks Celebi Offense - click for importable.
Thoughts and Comments
Offensive Support Celebi offers amazing role compression to a more offensive team, with Stealth Rocks, a great Water-type check with pivoting, and Healing Wish support. The latter in particular is really valuable, as we don't really have many great options for HW, limited to like Female Indeedee or Rapidash-Galar, which are incredibly meh. In particular this ability to pivot into water types like Milotic and Vaporeon, and especially Primarina, is super useful.
It's obviously no secret how valuable Healing Wish is, basically giving you a 7th Pokemon on your team, and with incredibly dangerous Pokemon like Gyarados and Machamp in particular, giving them up to twice their health can make them incredibly difficult to deal with, especially with the limited checks to both that exist in general. This is what really made rocks celebi shine out to me, compared to other people feeling dissatisfied with other rocks celebi sets.
Obviously the general downsides of running a set like this is that you are using a Rocker that has a poor matchup vs a lot of removers, and that itloses to Noivern unlike options like Gigalith that can actually help switch into it, forcing better Noivern counterplay into the rest of the team. This set also loses Recover in favour of HW, so is only really suited to offensive teams that won't miss it.
Incineroar
Boots Pivot Incineroar
Incineroar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 108 Def / 80 SpD / 72 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Parting Shot
- Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
- Flare Blitz / Heat Crash / Taunt
Teams Built
Don't have access to the balance team I used this on rn, but is featured on the DD Gyarados Offense previously linked.
Thoughts and Comments
Heavy Duty Boots Incineroar is a really cool option that we gained with these shifts for sure. Offering a switch in to threats like Chandelure, Celebi, and Doublade while keeping up the moment is great for more offensive teams, while the support it can provide for balance teams by checking Chandy, non-earth power Celebi, Mamoswine, and especially useful for teams using wish passers that aren't Umbreon, Polteageist, is also really useful. I've personally been enjoying Toxic more as my 4th move, to help cripple switch ins like Vaporeon/Milotic more then Will-O-Wisp would, (especially the latter which you'd just be marvel scaling).
Honestly this thing is really good on offense and I haven't found many downsides to it, but on Balance like the main downsides I've been finding with it really is like being a Fire-type thats weak to Fighting instead of being a nice switch into them like Arcanine (or Charizard to a lesser extent), its lack of longevity unlike them that is amplified by Flare Blitz recoil if running it, and preventing you from using Umbreon, which can put a lot more pressure on like Aromattise/Vaporeon to keep Weezing + Incineroar up, compared to Umbreon only having to keep Weezing up with one of the other Fires.
Stealth Rocks Celebi
Offensive Support CelebiCelebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 136 HP / 176 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Healing Wish
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
Teams Built Including the two teams I built with offensive Rocks Celebi here. Obviously with an offensive spread and Healing Wish > Recover, I was planning on using this for very offensive teams that would appreciate the healing wish support + role compresion Celebi offered.
DD Gyarados + Rocks Celebi Offense - click for importable. Specs Blastoise + Rocks Celebi Offense - click for importable. Thoughts and Comments Offensive Support Celebi offers amazing role compression to a more offensive team, with Stealth Rocks, a great Water-type check with pivoting, and Healing Wish support. The latter in particular is really valuable, as we don't really have many great options for HW, limited to like Female Indeedee or Rapidash-Galar, which are incredibly meh. In particular this ability to pivot into water types like Milotic and Vaporeon, and especially Primarina, is super useful.
It's obviously no secret how valuable Healing Wish is, basically giving you a 7th Pokemon on your team, and with incredibly dangerous Pokemon like Gyarados and Machamp in particular, giving them up to twice their health can make them incredibly difficult to deal with, especially with the limited checks to both that exist in general. This is what really made rocks celebi shine out to me, compared to other people feeling dissatisfied with other rocks celebi sets.
Obviously the general downsides of running a set like this is that you are using a Rocker that has a poor matchup vs a lot of removers, and that itloses to Noivern unlike options like Gigalith that can actually help switch into it, forcing better Noivern counterplay into the rest of the team. This set also loses Recover in favour of HW, so is only really suited to offensive teams that won't miss it.
Incineroar Boots Pivot Incineroar Incineroar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 108 Def / 80 SpD / 72 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Parting Shot
- Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
- Flare Blitz / Heat Crash / Taunt
Teams Built Don't have access to the balance team I used this on rn, but is featured on the DD Gyarados Offense previously linked.
Thoughts and Comments Heavy Duty Boots Incineroar is a really cool option that we gained with these shifts for sure. Offering a switch in to threats like Chandelure, Celebi, and Doublade while keeping up the moment is great for more offensive teams, while the support it can provide for balance teams by checking Chandy, non-earth power Celebi, Mamoswine, and especially useful for teams using wish passers that aren't Umbreon, Polteageist, is also really useful. I've personally been enjoying Toxic more as my 4th move, to help cripple switch ins like Vaporeon/Milotic more then Will-O-Wisp would, (especially the latter which you'd just be marvel scaling).
Honestly this thing is really good on offense and I haven't found many downsides to it, but on Balance like the main downsides I've been finding with it really is like being a Fire-type thats weak to Fighting instead of being a nice switch into them like Arcanine (or Charizard to a lesser extent), its lack of longevity unlike them that is amplified by Flare Blitz recoil if running it, and preventing you from using Umbreon, which can put a lot more pressure on like Aromattise/Vaporeon to keep Weezing + Incineroar up, compared to Umbreon only having to keep Weezing up with one of the other Fires.
I do not really have anything to show. This week was a bit of a mess. The first few days veil+setup was everywhere. After veiltales got banned the meta still felt a bit off to me (probably because everyone was playing with all the new toys and it was literaly impossible to prepare for it all ) .
About celebi:
I tried s rock both on an offensive and a sp.defensive invested one. Both got rocks up pretty easily but it obviously fits way better on a support version.
On both versions i always felt like i needed a 5th move :p
For the offensive celebi i chose nasty plot psychic giga drain and s rock. Most teams are prepared now and have at least one revenge killer on their team making celebis precense not overbearing. Bronzong and umbreon also had no problem with this set at all. To make this short i'd advice to not run s rock on an offensive spread because you need the moveslot for a 3rd attack and even then u'd want another free slot.
Sp.defensive celebi took hits from the likes of primarina really well whereafter s rocks where pretty free. The set i used was s rocks u turn giga drain and healing wish to help out the team. Not a game went by without me wanting to click psychic or earth power. The set was also really easy to set up on so clicking rocks instead of u turning midgame made me lose a few.
All in all a cool mon to have in UU but i repeat: whatever spread or role you want it for, you will always want a 5th moveslot.
About celebi:
I tried s rock both on an offensive and a sp.defensive invested one. Both got rocks up pretty easily but it obviously fits way better on a support version.
On both versions i always felt like i needed a 5th move :p
For the offensive celebi i chose nasty plot psychic giga drain and s rock. Most teams are prepared now and have at least one revenge killer on their team making celebis precense not overbearing. Bronzong and umbreon also had no problem with this set at all. To make this short i'd advice to not run s rock on an offensive spread because you need the moveslot for a 3rd attack and even then u'd want another free slot.
Sp.defensive celebi took hits from the likes of primarina really well whereafter s rocks where pretty free. The set i used was s rocks u turn giga drain and healing wish to help out the team. Not a game went by without me wanting to click psychic or earth power. The set was also really easy to set up on so clicking rocks instead of u turning midgame made me lose a few.
All in all a cool mon to have in UU but i repeat: whatever spread or role you want it for, you will always want a 5th moveslot.
Alright so this next week is over, and congratulations to A Cake Wearing A Hat for winning this last week. Our first week with three pokemon so let's get right into the summary!
Our first pokemon was Stealth Rock Celebi got mixed reviews overall. As noted by Estarossa, who used an offensive healing wish support set, it's great on more offensive teams who enjoy being able completely recover a previous pokemon. This is because our other options for healing wish are quite mediocore. Though A Cake Wearing A Hat and Estarossa said it lets in Noivern quite easily due to its typing, forcing other Noivern checks to be required. Another problem Celebi is 4MSS, which Critsomnia. Overall it's typing provides great utility to a team, though due to its lack of power it isn't able to break the pokemon it checks because of it.
Dual Dance Cobalion is next, and though covered by only one it got a very good report. A Cake Wearing A Hat had great results with this Cobalion set, being very good at what its role is. Due to being checked by pokemon like Gyarados, Toxtricity, Doublade, etc. due to either not having Stone Edge or just general typing walling its stabs, it needs team support. It preforms especially well versus teams with Bronzong or Umbreon, due to due being able to easily counter the two and setup. An old set that still preforms well in the newer meta gen 8 provides.
Incineroar is our newest addition, and one that was quite mediocore last generation. Though overall it has proven to be a very viable pick! The main boon that caused Incineroar to jump in viabliity is the new item Heavy-Duty Boots, causing its previous weakness to rocks go away. Estarossa and Twilight both told that due to its typing it provided a much needed check to ghosts such as Chandelure and Doublade, which the tier previously lacked. The tools it provides in Knock off, Intimidate, and pivoting in on a lot of the many threats to the tier makes it a solid pick. Though it's lack of recovery makes it harder to fit on balance teams. Overall it seems to best fit on offense, and it seems to have quickly cemented its place in the gen 8 UU meta!
Next weeks picks are going to be:
We have two more of our new additions to UU this week!
Toxtricity was a long awaited one, boasting not only a new typing in Poison/Electric but a brand new ability in Punk Rock! It's unique typing lets it check a lot of threats in the meta and with a high special attack of 114, its a force to be reckoned with. however, low speed and bulk. makes it hard for it to switch in on a lot of cases. It's a special attacker with Shift Gear, which lets it boost its mediocore speed up to great levels, but Choice Specs is another option that lets it hit like a truck right off the bat. Which of its set will preform best? We'll find out this week!
Necrozma is a returning member from gen 8, a jack of all trades. This week we'll be exploring one of its many possible sets. It got a new toy in Dragon Dance, like many other pokemon, but it also has an option of Swords Dance. With it's high bulk, but medicore speed what is the best option for this pokemon? Or will it be outshone by other setup users in this sense?
In order to participate you must do the following:
Our first pokemon was Stealth Rock Celebi got mixed reviews overall. As noted by Estarossa, who used an offensive healing wish support set, it's great on more offensive teams who enjoy being able completely recover a previous pokemon. This is because our other options for healing wish are quite mediocore. Though A Cake Wearing A Hat and Estarossa said it lets in Noivern quite easily due to its typing, forcing other Noivern checks to be required. Another problem Celebi is 4MSS, which Critsomnia. Overall it's typing provides great utility to a team, though due to its lack of power it isn't able to break the pokemon it checks because of it.
Dual Dance Cobalion is next, and though covered by only one it got a very good report. A Cake Wearing A Hat had great results with this Cobalion set, being very good at what its role is. Due to being checked by pokemon like Gyarados, Toxtricity, Doublade, etc. due to either not having Stone Edge or just general typing walling its stabs, it needs team support. It preforms especially well versus teams with Bronzong or Umbreon, due to due being able to easily counter the two and setup. An old set that still preforms well in the newer meta gen 8 provides.
Incineroar is our newest addition, and one that was quite mediocore last generation. Though overall it has proven to be a very viable pick! The main boon that caused Incineroar to jump in viabliity is the new item Heavy-Duty Boots, causing its previous weakness to rocks go away. Estarossa and Twilight both told that due to its typing it provided a much needed check to ghosts such as Chandelure and Doublade, which the tier previously lacked. The tools it provides in Knock off, Intimidate, and pivoting in on a lot of the many threats to the tier makes it a solid pick. Though it's lack of recovery makes it harder to fit on balance teams. Overall it seems to best fit on offense, and it seems to have quickly cemented its place in the gen 8 UU meta!
Next weeks picks are going to be:
Toxtricity @ any item
Ability:
EVs:
any Nature
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-
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-
Ability:
EVs:
any Nature
-
-
-
-
Necrozma @ any item
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs:
any Nature
- Swords Dance / Dragon Dance
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Ability: Prism Armor
EVs:
any Nature
- Swords Dance / Dragon Dance
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-
-
We have two more of our new additions to UU this week!
Toxtricity was a long awaited one, boasting not only a new typing in Poison/Electric but a brand new ability in Punk Rock! It's unique typing lets it check a lot of threats in the meta and with a high special attack of 114, its a force to be reckoned with. however, low speed and bulk. makes it hard for it to switch in on a lot of cases. It's a special attacker with Shift Gear, which lets it boost its mediocore speed up to great levels, but Choice Specs is another option that lets it hit like a truck right off the bat. Which of its set will preform best? We'll find out this week!
Necrozma is a returning member from gen 8, a jack of all trades. This week we'll be exploring one of its many possible sets. It got a new toy in Dragon Dance, like many other pokemon, but it also has an option of Swords Dance. With it's high bulk, but medicore speed what is the best option for this pokemon? Or will it be outshone by other setup users in this sense?
In order to participate you must do the following:
- Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as SSRW4 Daiyaga or SSRW4 Cake) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
- Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
- Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
- Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - don't just tell us, show us
- The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends. Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame.
SSRW4Random
Toxtricity
Toxtricity
Notily
dirt rich
played like 20 games w/ shift gear toxtricity, all of them with this offense team. dunno if i'll play more
built around tox + specs noivern, figured that it could weaken tox's checks / pivot on bulky waters to give it set up opportunities. idk what natures ppl are running on tox but i opted for modest lo rather than throat spray. i think that lo is better as it allows you click your powerful ass moves throughout the game without compromising your opportunities to sweep later on. modest lo hits almost as hard as timid specs so you can still do wallbreaking shit if winning with noivern makes for an easier gameplan. teams pretty standard for the most part, speed on doublade creeps rhyperior (but more importantly reuniclus). kinda gets fucked by mamo but eh
i didnt really find myself sweeping with tox a ton. it's poor bulk means that setting up on something like coba + lo recoil usually puts you in range of common priority moves. it does find set up opportunities vs weezing (!) and the bulky waters of the tier, which is nice given how reliant some teams are on those two as a defensive backbone. i dont think i clicked sludge wave once so it might be worth switching it for taunt to keep umbreon from healing or some shit idk.
overall i think tox checks off a unique set of boxes when it comes to building. absorbing tspikes, switching into weezing and having an extremely small pool of reliable defensive answers is super dope for offensive teams. fun mon, try it out
Toxtricity @ Life Orb
Ability: Punk Rock
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overdrive
- Sludge Wave
- Boomburst
- Shift Gear
Noivern @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Hurricane
- Flamethrower
- U-turn
Cobalion @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off
Tsareena (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power Whip
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Rapid Spin
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Claw
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance
Ability: Punk Rock
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overdrive
- Sludge Wave
- Boomburst
- Shift Gear
Noivern @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Hurricane
- Flamethrower
- U-turn
Cobalion @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off
Tsareena (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power Whip
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Rapid Spin
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Claw
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance
built around tox + specs noivern, figured that it could weaken tox's checks / pivot on bulky waters to give it set up opportunities. idk what natures ppl are running on tox but i opted for modest lo rather than throat spray. i think that lo is better as it allows you click your powerful ass moves throughout the game without compromising your opportunities to sweep later on. modest lo hits almost as hard as timid specs so you can still do wallbreaking shit if winning with noivern makes for an easier gameplan. teams pretty standard for the most part, speed on doublade creeps rhyperior (but more importantly reuniclus). kinda gets fucked by mamo but eh
i didnt really find myself sweeping with tox a ton. it's poor bulk means that setting up on something like coba + lo recoil usually puts you in range of common priority moves. it does find set up opportunities vs weezing (!) and the bulky waters of the tier, which is nice given how reliant some teams are on those two as a defensive backbone. i dont think i clicked sludge wave once so it might be worth switching it for taunt to keep umbreon from healing or some shit idk.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1076156934 - tox uses weezing as free set up and wins
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1076181680 - shift gear forces a haxorus to first imp, letting doub set up and win
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1076267349 - tox doesnt need to set up to kill shit
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1076181680 - shift gear forces a haxorus to first imp, letting doub set up and win
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1076267349 - tox doesnt need to set up to kill shit
overall i think tox checks off a unique set of boxes when it comes to building. absorbing tspikes, switching into weezing and having an extremely small pool of reliable defensive answers is super dope for offensive teams. fun mon, try it out