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Tournaments SSPL II - Commencement Thread
- Thread starter dex
- Start date
These manager pair selections have got to be a joke. At first, I thought that its better to stay silent and let it pass, but on reconsidering it, I think it sets a dangerous precedent for the future.
From what I understand, there are two primary qualities that the host looks for in any manager that has signed up.
- Competence and experience in said tiers
- Team chemistry / Ability to lead a team
One can argue about the weightage of said qualities, but everyone agrees that these are what every manager should have at the bare minimum. If you sign up to manage, it means that you back yourself in both these departments. Its then the host's job to use their best judgement to pick the best out of the bunch, for the overall health and success of the tournament.
That does not seem to be the case here.
One look at the manager pairs, and anyone that has been keeping up with SS in recent times will tell you that something is off.
Joya is one of the better players / builders for SS - They were an integral part of last year's SSPL finalists, was good support for the Scooters in SPL, and had a pretty good masters run. Speaking of masters, Skyrio finished top 8 while doing extremely well in SS, and is also familiar with low tiers. This is not taking into account the other managerial accolades they've mentioned in their signup.
Clean has forever been a mainstay of the SS OU playerbase ever since he played in SPL, most recently being heavily involved with South in worldcup. Another constant name that comes about when you look at the SS pool for side pl's is airfare, who has been putting up consistent results for quite some time now. If you were to ask anyone that is actively involved in the SS tour scene, I guarantee you that these two would be some of the first names that come about. Their games and results speak for themselves.
Ayk and Herv are another strong french pair that I am admittedly not as well versed with, but as a bystander it definitely seemed as though one of the two french teams would get in. They definitely are good enough to hold their own and make a run for the chip.
Now lets take a look at some of the people that got in, at the expense of those already mentioned :
I've never seen a 'pseudo-host' sign up and pick themselves for a tour. Had to double take when I found out that the actual hosts were mkizzy, AV11 and Javi (why are they the ones not posting and handling the threads then?) This isnt a good look at all.
If one were to properly dissect their signup :
I took the liberty of going through the threads for all the low tier pl's and here's what I found. Looking at the low tiers, they have a combined 5-11 in UU (dont think (?) they have played SS UU), 10-17 in RU (never having played SS RU), 7-10 in NU (never playing SS NU), 1-5 (never playing SS PU) while having 0 participation or results in DOU/LC/Ubers. This is discounting their lack of strength in OU, arguably the most important cornerstone for every team. Pragmatically speaking, the most notable achievement for this manager pairing is dex's 5th place finish from last year (with baloor now being on a different team)
My intention with listing out the records is not to point fingers, but to try and make sense of what accomplishments in said tiers that this pair has over others that have signed up, because as of right now, it seems that one of their primary selling points was the logo that they posted in their signup.
This is even more confusing. For lack of better words, Miyoko seems to have no "real" participation, results or involvement in SS. As a manager, two out of the three tours mentioned are discord tours, and this was the result of the only smogon tour (NDWC), and it doesnt really inspire confidence :
(yes it is shameful to admit as an indian myself, but I do want to lay out the facts)
For what its worth, Avarice is proficient in some of the tiers, and would make for a good captain with someone more knowledgable / experienced at the wheel.
Requesting AV11 Javi mkizzy for some transparency and justification as to how some of these people were selected - Yes you are not answerable to anyone, but my post (although a bit blunt) shares the sentiment that multiple people have expressed in the past few hours.
There is always some level of subjectivity when it comes to hosts selecting managers, but we must carefully draw the line between preferences and nonsensical favouritism. Because as things stand, it feels as though tier accomplishments and knowledge mean nothing at all, which isnt representative of the community we are trying to create and foster.
From what I understand, there are two primary qualities that the host looks for in any manager that has signed up.
- Competence and experience in said tiers
- Team chemistry / Ability to lead a team
One can argue about the weightage of said qualities, but everyone agrees that these are what every manager should have at the bare minimum. If you sign up to manage, it means that you back yourself in both these departments. Its then the host's job to use their best judgement to pick the best out of the bunch, for the overall health and success of the tournament.
That does not seem to be the case here.
One look at the manager pairs, and anyone that has been keeping up with SS in recent times will tell you that something is off.
Joya is one of the better players / builders for SS - They were an integral part of last year's SSPL finalists, was good support for the Scooters in SPL, and had a pretty good masters run. Speaking of masters, Skyrio finished top 8 while doing extremely well in SS, and is also familiar with low tiers. This is not taking into account the other managerial accolades they've mentioned in their signup.
Clean has forever been a mainstay of the SS OU playerbase ever since he played in SPL, most recently being heavily involved with South in worldcup. Another constant name that comes about when you look at the SS pool for side pl's is airfare, who has been putting up consistent results for quite some time now. If you were to ask anyone that is actively involved in the SS tour scene, I guarantee you that these two would be some of the first names that come about. Their games and results speak for themselves.
Ayk and Herv are another strong french pair that I am admittedly not as well versed with, but as a bystander it definitely seemed as though one of the two french teams would get in. They definitely are good enough to hold their own and make a run for the chip.
Now lets take a look at some of the people that got in, at the expense of those already mentioned :
I've never seen a 'pseudo-host' sign up and pick themselves for a tour. Had to double take when I found out that the actual hosts were mkizzy, AV11 and Javi (why are they the ones not posting and handling the threads then?) This isnt a good look at all.
If one were to properly dissect their signup :
I took the liberty of going through the threads for all the low tier pl's and here's what I found. Looking at the low tiers, they have a combined 5-11 in UU (dont think (?) they have played SS UU), 10-17 in RU (never having played SS RU), 7-10 in NU (never playing SS NU), 1-5 (never playing SS PU) while having 0 participation or results in DOU/LC/Ubers. This is discounting their lack of strength in OU, arguably the most important cornerstone for every team. Pragmatically speaking, the most notable achievement for this manager pairing is dex's 5th place finish from last year (with baloor now being on a different team)
My intention with listing out the records is not to point fingers, but to try and make sense of what accomplishments in said tiers that this pair has over others that have signed up, because as of right now, it seems that one of their primary selling points was the logo that they posted in their signup.
This is even more confusing. For lack of better words, Miyoko seems to have no "real" participation, results or involvement in SS. As a manager, two out of the three tours mentioned are discord tours, and this was the result of the only smogon tour (NDWC), and it doesnt really inspire confidence :
(yes it is shameful to admit as an indian myself, but I do want to lay out the facts)
For what its worth, Avarice is proficient in some of the tiers, and would make for a good captain with someone more knowledgable / experienced at the wheel.
Requesting AV11 Javi mkizzy for some transparency and justification as to how some of these people were selected - Yes you are not answerable to anyone, but my post (although a bit blunt) shares the sentiment that multiple people have expressed in the past few hours.
There is always some level of subjectivity when it comes to hosts selecting managers, but we must carefully draw the line between preferences and nonsensical favouritism. Because as things stand, it feels as though tier accomplishments and knowledge mean nothing at all, which isnt representative of the community we are trying to create and foster.
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just want to add in some of my own thoughts (as someone who supported avarice/sasha's team last sspl, and I think i'm otherwise pretty tuned into the SS community [although not so much lower tiers])
avarice is a perfectly competent manager, and i can see an argument for avarice + miyoko as a team working pretty well if you argue that miyoko has some managing experience and avarice more play experience. In particular, I noticed avarice doing support work for lower tiers (the little voice in my head says mostly NU, PU, and LC, but I do not recall exactly). however, i think that this is clearly a very weak argument when clean + airfare are options. Although I haven't seen them manage, i've worked a little with both here and there, and they were excellent in that role. Airfare was a great teammate in the SSPL i played with, and I think both of them would be pretty good managers. I would even say they're probably a better pair than some of the better teams picked and i think I could be convinced that they are the best pair offered.
gonna ping some of my teammates from that team FatFighter2 691 Drifting if they wish to comment on this from their perspectives.
The dex + clementine thing is uh fucking stupid? Not only are they at best questionable choices for manager, the whole pseudo-host situation you pointed out is extremely stupid. I know/knew 2 of the hosts (mkizzy was on my team for.. adpl? a couple seasons ago, and Javi is a regular SS player) to some extent, and I think they would be acceptable. I think this is a clear overreach from dex. Clementine in particular is a very strange pick to me as a manager, considering that from my knowledge they do not play SS. Maybe there's some lower tier knowledge I don't know about, but DJ's argument is strong here. This sort of thing happens in silly little unimportant discord PLs (and even then probably shouldn't happen), not in tours like this.
for what it's worth I don't know much about Skyrio or Ayk, but Joya and yone (formerly known as Herv) are excellent players that I believe would do an admirable job of managing.
I think what needs to happen is that dex+clementine need to be removed. No other option is reasonable here. We also need clarity on dex's role in hosting the tournament, and I would frankly call for further action beyond this to punish both parties.
thank you Dj Breloominati♬ for pointing this out, I didn't notice at first and just went alright these are our managers.
Otherwise, the manager choices seem mostly good - not all the names are at the absolute top tiers but I think those that aren't make up for it with experience and are perfectly competent players in their own right.
edit: w/ the new info w dex's involvement (or lack thereof) that issue is more or less cleared up. i still think there are other hosts that should have been selected but there's at least no conflict of interest issues
avarice is a perfectly competent manager, and i can see an argument for avarice + miyoko as a team working pretty well if you argue that miyoko has some managing experience and avarice more play experience. In particular, I noticed avarice doing support work for lower tiers (the little voice in my head says mostly NU, PU, and LC, but I do not recall exactly). however, i think that this is clearly a very weak argument when clean + airfare are options. Although I haven't seen them manage, i've worked a little with both here and there, and they were excellent in that role. Airfare was a great teammate in the SSPL i played with, and I think both of them would be pretty good managers. I would even say they're probably a better pair than some of the better teams picked and i think I could be convinced that they are the best pair offered.
gonna ping some of my teammates from that team FatFighter2 691 Drifting if they wish to comment on this from their perspectives.
The dex + clementine thing is uh fucking stupid? Not only are they at best questionable choices for manager, the whole pseudo-host situation you pointed out is extremely stupid. I know/knew 2 of the hosts (mkizzy was on my team for.. adpl? a couple seasons ago, and Javi is a regular SS player) to some extent, and I think they would be acceptable. I think this is a clear overreach from dex. Clementine in particular is a very strange pick to me as a manager, considering that from my knowledge they do not play SS. Maybe there's some lower tier knowledge I don't know about, but DJ's argument is strong here. This sort of thing happens in silly little unimportant discord PLs (and even then probably shouldn't happen), not in tours like this.
for what it's worth I don't know much about Skyrio or Ayk, but Joya and yone (formerly known as Herv) are excellent players that I believe would do an admirable job of managing.
I think what needs to happen is that dex+clementine need to be removed. No other option is reasonable here. We also need clarity on dex's role in hosting the tournament, and I would frankly call for further action beyond this to punish both parties.
thank you Dj Breloominati♬ for pointing this out, I didn't notice at first and just went alright these are our managers.
Otherwise, the manager choices seem mostly good - not all the names are at the absolute top tiers but I think those that aren't make up for it with experience and are perfectly competent players in their own right.
edit: w/ the new info w dex's involvement (or lack thereof) that issue is more or less cleared up. i still think there are other hosts that should have been selected but there's at least no conflict of interest issues
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Hello, I’d like to firstly post to clarify the role of dex in this all.
We asked dex, as part of the mod team, to put up manager signups and player sign ups ourselves. We discussed manager selections in a separate group chat with the three hosts and we asked dex to post the final selection. We recognise this can look somewhat inappropriate due to his participation in the tour and as such all remaining related posts will only be handled by the host team.
there may be a further post regarding selection when we have some time. We did not all have the same 8 unanimous choices and I personally remarked that after the first 8 signups we had enough to do a really good tour. I am sorry that this is the case but we did indeed have some amazing pairs that missed the cut.
We asked dex, as part of the mod team, to put up manager signups and player sign ups ourselves. We discussed manager selections in a separate group chat with the three hosts and we asked dex to post the final selection. We recognise this can look somewhat inappropriate due to his participation in the tour and as such all remaining related posts will only be handled by the host team.
there may be a further post regarding selection when we have some time. We did not all have the same 8 unanimous choices and I personally remarked that after the first 8 signups we had enough to do a really good tour. I am sorry that this is the case but we did indeed have some amazing pairs that missed the cut.
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How bout some transparency of your own there, bud Dj Breloominati♬
Kinda shady thing to do instead of just asking me about the process. But I am nothing if not transparent. Here are the entire logs from the SSPL hosts channel.
Congrats, bud, really sleuthed that one out. I didn't have any part in the decision-making process. Let's not throw around baseless and untrue accusations please! I've done enough of that in the past for everyone here. I am not a host for the tour, I'm just getting the threads up in a timely manner. I took myself and the other SS mods out of the decision-making process to avoid this very thing from happening. If that's an issue, then you should really look through some other ROA team tours, where moderators will get the threads up for them and also manage. Not sure how that's such a huge conflict of interest, though.
Kinda shady thing to do instead of just asking me about the process. But I am nothing if not transparent. Here are the entire logs from the SSPL hosts channel.
Congrats, bud, really sleuthed that one out. I didn't have any part in the decision-making process. Let's not throw around baseless and untrue accusations please! I've done enough of that in the past for everyone here. I am not a host for the tour, I'm just getting the threads up in a timely manner. I took myself and the other SS mods out of the decision-making process to avoid this very thing from happening. If that's an issue, then you should really look through some other ROA team tours, where moderators will get the threads up for them and also manage. Not sure how that's such a huge conflict of interest, though.
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If you took the time to read then you would see his post is not an accusation of an inside job, while the transparency is nice this isn't the 'gotcha' moment you think it is, these manager selections are poor regardless. I don't particularly agree with going after specific manager pairings but in context I can understand it.
I was very active when SS was CG; seeing names like Joya, clean, airfare, and Ayk on the sidelines for management is honestly pathetic, these guys should be some of the first names on the list. Joya in particular has managed countless tours and has consistently put up excellent results too.
Not sure why this is being treated as some sort of targeted take down, you can obviously see how stupid this looks to someone who is not privy to the decision making process. Reasonable people will understand that not every qualified person can be selected, but looking at the quality of people not picked, it is bound to raise eyebrows
I thought that was a copypasta/meme I didn’t realize it was serious. If we get 250 signups then make 10 teams and call this 2022 SCL
its not rlly hard to see why dex and clementine would get picked is it? when SS was just going out of being current gen and everyone was hopping on the new shiny toy of SV, clementine stayed back to build the SS forum and lead the section when literally nobody else was willing to
likewise dex seems to have taken over and is handling most of the dirty work that keeps the community running; as evidenced by the fact that even after promoting a separate host team he STILL had to step up and post the threads himself
that's how little the average user actually cares about keeping smogon running, and how much people like clem and dex care
the team making manager selections was left in the difficult position of having to pick between 'good players/managers' and 'good citizens'; i think it's a very fair point of criticism to say that you are supposed to pick the former, but i'm empathetic to the hosts for getting swayed by the pressure of the latter.
for better or worse dex and clem keep this shit running and without them there likely would not be an SSPL at all - there is immense implied pressure for the host team to select them. i don't expect most people to understand this because most people don't actually do anything to keep smogon running, they just show up and play the game and expect everything to be done for them. but anyone who has actually given back to the community and worked with someone else would understand that there are weird conflicts of interest at play here, and that it'd be a very awkward situation for the host team to exclude the people who are otherwise running the section in its entirety
i really do not have a horse in this race but my advice would be as follows:
To the host team (mkizzy AV11 Javi): take more initiative, why on earth was dex the one to post manager signups and commencement? you are *hosting* this tournament. you are supposed to do something. i dont blame you for anything else so far, you were in a tough spot, and i dont think its on you to force anything to change here
To dex/Clem: consider stepping down of your own volition for the good of the tournament, I appreciate everything you do but the court of popular opinion has spoken pretty clearly and I think as community figureheads you should honor their wishes (even though it sucks)
To the broader SS community: if you love SS as much as you claim to, join Slowpoke Fan and make something happen here. he's the only one that I can see is putting together sample teams and analyses and resources and actually passionate about this tier. nobody else who is a "true SS fan" is running anything else in the section, so it's all falling to these 'outsiders' such as dex and Clem to run this entire section. you can see here and now why this is harmful to your tier. put your money where your mouth is and ACTUALLY contribute once in your life. i promise the host life is not a bad life, it's very rewarding to give back to a community you like. this did not need to happen; you just needed ONE "true SS fan" in the decision making room to get a more merit-based decision to happen. instead it's all offloaded to hosting mains. to put it another way: talk is good, and I'm happy you've made your voices heard, but also, to some degree, it's time to step up or shut up
i also want to say ultimately whatever happens is not That Big Of A Deal, there's decent reasons for things to have gone the way they have. so maybe just stay the course and everyone on literally all sides of this can learn some lessons for next year
likewise dex seems to have taken over and is handling most of the dirty work that keeps the community running; as evidenced by the fact that even after promoting a separate host team he STILL had to step up and post the threads himself
that's how little the average user actually cares about keeping smogon running, and how much people like clem and dex care
the team making manager selections was left in the difficult position of having to pick between 'good players/managers' and 'good citizens'; i think it's a very fair point of criticism to say that you are supposed to pick the former, but i'm empathetic to the hosts for getting swayed by the pressure of the latter.
for better or worse dex and clem keep this shit running and without them there likely would not be an SSPL at all - there is immense implied pressure for the host team to select them. i don't expect most people to understand this because most people don't actually do anything to keep smogon running, they just show up and play the game and expect everything to be done for them. but anyone who has actually given back to the community and worked with someone else would understand that there are weird conflicts of interest at play here, and that it'd be a very awkward situation for the host team to exclude the people who are otherwise running the section in its entirety
i really do not have a horse in this race but my advice would be as follows:
To the host team (mkizzy AV11 Javi): take more initiative, why on earth was dex the one to post manager signups and commencement? you are *hosting* this tournament. you are supposed to do something. i dont blame you for anything else so far, you were in a tough spot, and i dont think its on you to force anything to change here
To dex/Clem: consider stepping down of your own volition for the good of the tournament, I appreciate everything you do but the court of popular opinion has spoken pretty clearly and I think as community figureheads you should honor their wishes (even though it sucks)
To the broader SS community: if you love SS as much as you claim to, join Slowpoke Fan and make something happen here. he's the only one that I can see is putting together sample teams and analyses and resources and actually passionate about this tier. nobody else who is a "true SS fan" is running anything else in the section, so it's all falling to these 'outsiders' such as dex and Clem to run this entire section. you can see here and now why this is harmful to your tier. put your money where your mouth is and ACTUALLY contribute once in your life. i promise the host life is not a bad life, it's very rewarding to give back to a community you like. this did not need to happen; you just needed ONE "true SS fan" in the decision making room to get a more merit-based decision to happen. instead it's all offloaded to hosting mains. to put it another way: talk is good, and I'm happy you've made your voices heard, but also, to some degree, it's time to step up or shut up
i also want to say ultimately whatever happens is not That Big Of A Deal, there's decent reasons for things to have gone the way they have. so maybe just stay the course and everyone on literally all sides of this can learn some lessons for next year
Skyrio should be manager, je hais ce putain de chômeur but he's a very good leader (+ la mamacita de joya)
No I think that's better to stick to hosts 1st decision to not demotivate them from what they are continually doing for the tier according to what you have explained, i dont know what the criterias are but i think their work is worth giving a spot, and also to consider what Mantis said :
Lets just learn from what happened and make better next year, I wouldnt feel good with earning a manager spot this way.
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Thank you for your post in general Amaranth, I agree with the majority of what you have said and it broadly follows what we as hosts discussed when discussing that particular selection and a couple others too. With regard to why dex posted sign ups and commencement, I have already posted and the logs are available above. We believed that it is standard as general for a forum mod to post these threads publicly as, to be frank, I didn't really see the harm in this at the time as it is just a thread started and takes a whole 5 minutes at a stretch to post. Additionally, in the posts the host team is clearly stated but I once again apologise for this oversight and I now realise it looks quite bad but I hope the logs will give you comfort on this.
As hosts we have been busy preparing several things in the background, with the sheet, retains etc. ready for a smooth tour and all decisions were made independently of any of the forum mods in a private group chat where we shared our research on the sign ups. dex's posting of the final list of managers was simply an elaborate copy-paste of what we, as hosts, had selected and once again I stress, independently.
I am trying to be as transparent as possible, but if this is not enough, please feel free to post here. In regards to specific pairings I can't really comment on those unless those parties privately want to reach out to me because I don't think that would be appropriate to them. I hope everyone has a great tour.
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I don't want to be too critical because I appreciate everything hosts do for these tours, but I just want to point out that, it is NOT standard for a forum mod to post those things. That usually only happens when A) there are not yet any hosts for the tournament (sometimes they get picked after signups go up) or B) the host team isn't really doing the stuff timely so a mod feels they have to step in and do it. I know you don't want to be considered in that B category.
I know you do stuff in the background but nobody sees that really - if you are going to host, then go ahead and get all the posts set up. As you said, it takes no more than 5 minutes, and allows everyone to see who is actually running this tournament. I can perfectly understand not posting manager signups because maybe the host team is not yet ready at that point in time. But you should definitely be the one posting everything else afterwards, not because it's what you're "supposed" to do, but because it causes less confusion as to who is actually running the tournament.
No comment on the pairings that's not really my place to critique and picking managers is always hard for the host team. But I don't think you should be punting the posts to the mods if you are hosting the tournament.
Or I guess 300 is fine too
Its not good when your only retain pption is called Akaru Kokuyo 
Rip the 10 team dream
hi i don't like slamming on hosts much bc i've done plenty of smog contributions myself it's all volunteering etc. i dont even mind losing the team since airfare and clean should have been picked by the hosts to begin with imo. however, i dont want this held against me elsewhere.
javitu specified my message, so i doubt miyoko did anything and they should have gotten the opportunity to get a different comanager if it was truly an issue on my part. i do not think that's the case though, since other managers spoke similarly when 8 vs 10 teams was discussed (different commitment etc). idk if the RoA leaders and TDs dislike me, but at a minimum it looks like my message was singled out to bail the hosts out from "the heat" over manager selections.
If your going to suddenly try to change a team tour from 8 man teams to 10 man teams because almost everybody disliked your manager choices to begin with, you cannot be surprised nor mad when said captains show discontent at completely changing the tour roughly 4 days or less before the draft takes place. Furthermore, kicking specifically avarice and miyoko for saying they wouldn't want to play if you expanded it (when multiple other managers also said similar), is bluntly speaking, fucking ridiculous. It's selective enforcement and I truly don't know how this even quantifies as "unsportsmanlike conduct" either.
I have no stakes in this for reasons I presume are quite obvious but seeing someone I've enjoyed teaming with before get punked for what smells eerily like scapegoating does not bode well with me, and the reception I've seen to this has been practically unanimously negative. I understand being a host is a thankless job so I don't want to be too mean about this but this is an absolute train wreck. I can't even give any constructive criticism or say to undo the change because now you'd be punking airfare (again) for something that isn't his fault.
I have no stakes in this for reasons I presume are quite obvious but seeing someone I've enjoyed teaming with before get punked for what smells eerily like scapegoating does not bode well with me, and the reception I've seen to this has been practically unanimously negative. I understand being a host is a thankless job so I don't want to be too mean about this but this is an absolute train wreck. I can't even give any constructive criticism or say to undo the change because now you'd be punking airfare (again) for something that isn't his fault.
I actually thought that, prior to announcing it would expand to 10 teams if it received 300 signups (as in the announcement last week), it would have been discussed with the existing managers first, so that everyone was aware of the situation and generally not opposed. If this did not happen, I really wonder why all of the people who signed up hoping for 10 teams were kind of baited into something that was never happening.
I can perfectly understand managers not wanting to do 9 weeks, but if so this is why it should have been a discussion prior to the announcement. Again I don’t actually know if this happened or not. If there was no discussion with the existing managers then that’s pretty bad, and you can’t fault any managers at all for not wanting to be a part of the tour with 10 teams if that’s not what they agreed to previously. If there was a discussion, and the managers were generally ok with the condition of 10 teams if 300 sign ups and were well aware and did not speak up earlier, then at that point it’s on the managers who later decide not to be a part of it. I don’t know which way this actually happened, but if it’s the former then there should not be any punishment.
I can perfectly understand managers not wanting to do 9 weeks, but if so this is why it should have been a discussion prior to the announcement. Again I don’t actually know if this happened or not. If there was no discussion with the existing managers then that’s pretty bad, and you can’t fault any managers at all for not wanting to be a part of the tour with 10 teams if that’s not what they agreed to previously. If there was a discussion, and the managers were generally ok with the condition of 10 teams if 300 sign ups and were well aware and did not speak up earlier, then at that point it’s on the managers who later decide not to be a part of it. I don’t know which way this actually happened, but if it’s the former then there should not be any punishment.
Unless Avarice is simply omitting information, I'm really failing to see any semblance of unsportsmanlike conduct here. The conversations provided seemed to show multiple managers sharing a similar sentiment and attitude so punishing anyone at all, much less a single team feels really suspicious (again that's assuming all context has been presented). This is a reversible mistake and I think anyone intending to compete in this tournament is looking for a response regarding this situation. As LBN said, hosting is a relatively thankless job and the efforts are severely under-looked at best, but all the community asks for in situations like this is transparency. This has been a recurring issue I've seen in multiple PL's at this point, including NU's and ZU's but please consult managers before making decisions that alter the course of the tournament they are managing for.
In the logs that Avarice shared are our first opinions and some others that do not appear but shared the same feeling. None of the managers agreed from the beginning with such a decision for the reasons that we expressed in the logs that Avarice shared. I also do not think that using the term "punishment" is appropriate since it is not intended to point out anyone, it is true that blaming avarice for unsportsmanlike behavior is somewhat exaggerated since even I considered the same idea if this reached 10 teams due that 14 weeks of tournament is a big commitment as a manager.
I'm not saying the hosts made the best decision, they had a couple of stumbles trying to keep everyone happy and it would be nice if everyone understood that part too.
This happened mainly because some users decided to exert pressure complaining about the managers selection was not what they expected, even so Idt we have had to reach the point of discrediting any of the chosen couples since some are constant players or known in the tier, and others contribute day by day in the SS area, which is an action to take into account as well and should be valued.
Maybe I'm not the one to say this but I was in the same position as the avarice couple (miyoko) last year and I know it's a bit unfair, maybe the best option in this case would be to select miyoko to be a couple with clean or airfire and be something equitable for both teams, idk.
and avarice of course deserves an apology, I don't blame him because fragments and I had the same thought regarding the issue of the 10 teams since that idea should never have been taken into account, nor should the host group be blamed for them, who they surely felt pressured by the complaints of some forum members.
Having said all this, let it serve as a lesson for the next edition and let's stop throwing hot potatoes at each other and making so much drama just like last year. gl everyone and hf in the sspl.
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