Today started up my college classes and I'll doubtless have no time to study. However, I've been sitting on this team for some time and it was about time I show this one off.
When Aegislash was kicked out of OU, the question of how stall was to survive was kind of up in the air. Especially with having to cover three wallbreakers that had power levels and coverage that stall just really didn't have clear cut answers to. I discussed it a bit in the stall thread that the answer seemed to lie in faster psychics or doublade. Even then, the effectiveness of doublade, the fact that stall rarely used Aegislash and the issue of a completely new teambuilding structure to obey left a lot to be desired even with doublade still being a legitimate choice.
The team building process really wasn't much of a process. I started with this squad:
This was the mawile-era team. The issue was definitely heatran, who could really hard stop this entire team. Genies were both issues, and occasionally I found myself unable to take care of stupid things like opposing charizard-y's. Generally, special fire types gave me insane amounts of hell. With rocks up, I couldn't take offensive venusaur well, either.
The heatran weakness was simply unreal. During the mawile suspect test, I figured I could work on that, and I spent a short amount of time experimenting with Charizard-X and Mandibuzz over CharY and Skarm respectively. Bringing in the ground weak ZardX meant a hole (A bigger one) to Landorus, so Mandibuzz was supposed to help. However, the team was passive as hell and I got beaten badly by Tesung's tauntbreaker Aero (though in my defense, I didn't expect aqua tail when I lead with Rhyperior). I eventually ended up consulting with TFL and Jukain. Through their suggestions, I dropped all of CharX, Sylveon and Mandi and replaced in Blastoise, Chansey and Gliscor respectively.
Note that a lot of this team has the ability to pack a punch. I owe much of this to losing to Tesung so badly, and also his own current more offensive based stall. This team will focus on utalizing heavy bulk to take hits, but at the end of the day, most of the members on this team will not be waiting to knock off the opposing team's members. The lack of a more passive nature allows this team to do better against taunt mons and allows me options in playing around some of the dangerous mons to this team.
So that was short. Let's get to the actual team.
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 240 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Sacred Sword
- Gyro Ball
- Shadow Sneak
- Rest
This set is jukain's suggestion to me, having an attack+ nature to "not be a wet paper towel". I'm still debating Sacred Sword over Shadow Claw, and it seems like a legitimate option, especially to provide a shakier check to Gyarados-mega (Who Blastoise-mega is the primary check). This set is obviously mainly worried about solving MediM, HeraM, and GardM. On the side, it also takes Latias, many PinsirM, Terrakion and some other random shit that it simply checks down. Shadow sneak is a godly way to revenge weakned mons, coming in especially useful vs weakened excadrills and Alakazam, which is far more rare.
Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 212 HP / 44 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
Rhyperior is by far the best bird spam counter in the game right now due in large part to magnezone trapping. Skarm just isn't consistent right now without a shed shell. However, Rhyperior does more than eliminate Talonflame and Pinsir-M. With his massive defense and great typing, he's able to smash by most CharizardX. The attack and adamant is to OHKO any non-bulk ZardX. Just be careful on the initial switch: While he can kinda shoulder a flame thrower, Rhyperior will be absolutely decimated by CharY's Solar Beam.
The bulk is slightly like Aggro-Megas: It allows you to shoulder off super effective hits from the likes of Excadrill and Terrakion if you really need to. Of course, in these cases, you should check them down... I believe Sash Terrak does do less than 50% to Rhyperior though. This guy also shoulders Dragonite (survives a +4 dnite EQ) and other physical dragons that Skarm would've otherwise done. Intense bulk and attack, just needs a cleric close by. My question for him is generally whether I should use rock blast or rock slide.
Blastoise-Mega @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpA
Bold Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Dark Pulse
- Aura Sphere
- Scald
Suggested by TFL, blastoise-mega was the last addition onto this team and generally placed as a hazard clearer for the other six. However, he forms many important roles, mainly as a check and a very good provider offensive pressure. The EV spread is my own, it now will OHKO an Alakazam-Mega with Dark Pulse while taking 58.--% max from Psychic. This means he also OHKOs Landorus forms. Scald destroys one of his only good switchins, azumarill and leaves this team in a very good position. Overall, his main role is to check down AlakazamM, GyaradosM and Bisharp, as well as taking a pokemon every time he comes in. If kept healthy late game, he will tear teams apart by himself.
He also beats just about every rock setter in the game 1v1, having the ability to OHKO TTar, Lando forms, Excadrill, Bisharp, Terrakion, and Mamoswine while 2hko'ing Ferrothorn, Heatran, Skarmory and Garchomp.
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 176 SpD / 88 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Roost
Another one of Jukain's main suggested changes, Gliscor filled in to help with my landorus issues and to become my main counter-stall component. He also took over as the main heatran stop when we replaced out CharizardX. Two other roles that Gliscor fills are invaluable to this team: Countering Mew and mostly countering Clefable. Otherwise, his role is to take Excadrill as well as he can and stop as many hazards from coming up as possible. With Blastoise-mega and Amoongus, Gliscor rounds out my ways to stop ScizorM, hopefully by taunting him before he can roost/SD. The EV spread is to outspeed 44 speed mew (which in turn outspeeds adamant bisharp) and other Gliscors running 80 speed.
Amoonguss (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD
Bold Nature
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Even with a measly 85 SpA, Amoongus always manages to become an offensive threat due to spore spam and simple coverage. Amoongus, though, has not changed much in stall. I still use the 'archaic' amoongus set that survives the +6 BD from Azumarill and clear smogs, but this time I have HP fire for Ferro and Scizor switchins. Ferro is a very, very common switchin that gets nailed for 40% every time. It can get so bad that pokemon like Suicune become the best switch the opponent has to amoongus. Clear smog takes away more than just the azum's boost. It'll grab away any CM keldeo attempts, stops Clefable from having an absolute field day and can, in an emergency, stop a NP Thundurus or a DDGyaraM. To be honest, this is almost always my first switch vs Thundurus to prevent knock off from doing serious damage. Also, this guy is literally the greatest fuck you stall can give Keldeo. Even sub/endeavor shouldn't get through.
It's a fucking chansey. Please don't even bother reading the description, this thing isn't doing anything new.
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Heal Bell
I really do get bored of writing up what chansey does. Walls off special mons, yada yada. I guess the only unique thing is here I do kind of rely on it to do something to Gyarados mega if I'm in a pinch. Foddering it off so the Gyarados is low enough that I can take care of it is an effective strategy. Just wish bomb doublade/Blast/Rhy, they don't have recovery... well, rest doublade but whatever. Heal bell might not even be necessary and is sometimes counterproductive but toxic isn't any bit better to justify not having the option. At the end of the day, I try to stay out of chansey unless I need wishes because it can really hurt momentum. Think of chansey as a midgame pitstop. If you have to fodder it off, you don't lose too much as everything else can manage to the special metagame if you work at it. The wishes are the important part, that is all.
Closing thoughts:
Stall currently looks odd, to say the least. But I guess that's what I wanted from the beginning. Seeing a metagame where stall CAN'T be classified by a few archtypes makes me happy because even I found VenuTran stall boring after a few months. Hell, right now looking at the stall teams I've seen, I've not seen any real trends outside of the earlier mentioned speedy psychic/doublade trend. It's got good things on the horizon in ORAS and right now it has some people showing off some uncanny building skills. While not as dominate as it was with aegislash, stall does still possess a great deal of potential.
Of course I'd like opinions on how to improve the team. It's basically done with a few modifications maybe to be added in, but there's always genius in suggestions.
When Aegislash was kicked out of OU, the question of how stall was to survive was kind of up in the air. Especially with having to cover three wallbreakers that had power levels and coverage that stall just really didn't have clear cut answers to. I discussed it a bit in the stall thread that the answer seemed to lie in faster psychics or doublade. Even then, the effectiveness of doublade, the fact that stall rarely used Aegislash and the issue of a completely new teambuilding structure to obey left a lot to be desired even with doublade still being a legitimate choice.
The team building process really wasn't much of a process. I started with this squad:
This was the mawile-era team. The issue was definitely heatran, who could really hard stop this entire team. Genies were both issues, and occasionally I found myself unable to take care of stupid things like opposing charizard-y's. Generally, special fire types gave me insane amounts of hell. With rocks up, I couldn't take offensive venusaur well, either.
The heatran weakness was simply unreal. During the mawile suspect test, I figured I could work on that, and I spent a short amount of time experimenting with Charizard-X and Mandibuzz over CharY and Skarm respectively. Bringing in the ground weak ZardX meant a hole (A bigger one) to Landorus, so Mandibuzz was supposed to help. However, the team was passive as hell and I got beaten badly by Tesung's tauntbreaker Aero (though in my defense, I didn't expect aqua tail when I lead with Rhyperior). I eventually ended up consulting with TFL and Jukain. Through their suggestions, I dropped all of CharX, Sylveon and Mandi and replaced in Blastoise, Chansey and Gliscor respectively.
Note that a lot of this team has the ability to pack a punch. I owe much of this to losing to Tesung so badly, and also his own current more offensive based stall. This team will focus on utalizing heavy bulk to take hits, but at the end of the day, most of the members on this team will not be waiting to knock off the opposing team's members. The lack of a more passive nature allows this team to do better against taunt mons and allows me options in playing around some of the dangerous mons to this team.
So that was short. Let's get to the actual team.
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 240 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Sacred Sword
- Gyro Ball
- Shadow Sneak
- Rest
This set is jukain's suggestion to me, having an attack+ nature to "not be a wet paper towel". I'm still debating Sacred Sword over Shadow Claw, and it seems like a legitimate option, especially to provide a shakier check to Gyarados-mega (Who Blastoise-mega is the primary check). This set is obviously mainly worried about solving MediM, HeraM, and GardM. On the side, it also takes Latias, many PinsirM, Terrakion and some other random shit that it simply checks down. Shadow sneak is a godly way to revenge weakned mons, coming in especially useful vs weakened excadrills and Alakazam, which is far more rare.
Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 212 HP / 44 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
Rhyperior is by far the best bird spam counter in the game right now due in large part to magnezone trapping. Skarm just isn't consistent right now without a shed shell. However, Rhyperior does more than eliminate Talonflame and Pinsir-M. With his massive defense and great typing, he's able to smash by most CharizardX. The attack and adamant is to OHKO any non-bulk ZardX. Just be careful on the initial switch: While he can kinda shoulder a flame thrower, Rhyperior will be absolutely decimated by CharY's Solar Beam.
The bulk is slightly like Aggro-Megas: It allows you to shoulder off super effective hits from the likes of Excadrill and Terrakion if you really need to. Of course, in these cases, you should check them down... I believe Sash Terrak does do less than 50% to Rhyperior though. This guy also shoulders Dragonite (survives a +4 dnite EQ) and other physical dragons that Skarm would've otherwise done. Intense bulk and attack, just needs a cleric close by. My question for him is generally whether I should use rock blast or rock slide.
Blastoise-Mega @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpA
Bold Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Dark Pulse
- Aura Sphere
- Scald
Suggested by TFL, blastoise-mega was the last addition onto this team and generally placed as a hazard clearer for the other six. However, he forms many important roles, mainly as a check and a very good provider offensive pressure. The EV spread is my own, it now will OHKO an Alakazam-Mega with Dark Pulse while taking 58.--% max from Psychic. This means he also OHKOs Landorus forms. Scald destroys one of his only good switchins, azumarill and leaves this team in a very good position. Overall, his main role is to check down AlakazamM, GyaradosM and Bisharp, as well as taking a pokemon every time he comes in. If kept healthy late game, he will tear teams apart by himself.
He also beats just about every rock setter in the game 1v1, having the ability to OHKO TTar, Lando forms, Excadrill, Bisharp, Terrakion, and Mamoswine while 2hko'ing Ferrothorn, Heatran, Skarmory and Garchomp.
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 176 SpD / 88 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Roost
Another one of Jukain's main suggested changes, Gliscor filled in to help with my landorus issues and to become my main counter-stall component. He also took over as the main heatran stop when we replaced out CharizardX. Two other roles that Gliscor fills are invaluable to this team: Countering Mew and mostly countering Clefable. Otherwise, his role is to take Excadrill as well as he can and stop as many hazards from coming up as possible. With Blastoise-mega and Amoongus, Gliscor rounds out my ways to stop ScizorM, hopefully by taunting him before he can roost/SD. The EV spread is to outspeed 44 speed mew (which in turn outspeeds adamant bisharp) and other Gliscors running 80 speed.
Amoonguss (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD
Bold Nature
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Even with a measly 85 SpA, Amoongus always manages to become an offensive threat due to spore spam and simple coverage. Amoongus, though, has not changed much in stall. I still use the 'archaic' amoongus set that survives the +6 BD from Azumarill and clear smogs, but this time I have HP fire for Ferro and Scizor switchins. Ferro is a very, very common switchin that gets nailed for 40% every time. It can get so bad that pokemon like Suicune become the best switch the opponent has to amoongus. Clear smog takes away more than just the azum's boost. It'll grab away any CM keldeo attempts, stops Clefable from having an absolute field day and can, in an emergency, stop a NP Thundurus or a DDGyaraM. To be honest, this is almost always my first switch vs Thundurus to prevent knock off from doing serious damage. Also, this guy is literally the greatest fuck you stall can give Keldeo. Even sub/endeavor shouldn't get through.
It's a fucking chansey. Please don't even bother reading the description, this thing isn't doing anything new.
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Heal Bell
I really do get bored of writing up what chansey does. Walls off special mons, yada yada. I guess the only unique thing is here I do kind of rely on it to do something to Gyarados mega if I'm in a pinch. Foddering it off so the Gyarados is low enough that I can take care of it is an effective strategy. Just wish bomb doublade/Blast/Rhy, they don't have recovery... well, rest doublade but whatever. Heal bell might not even be necessary and is sometimes counterproductive but toxic isn't any bit better to justify not having the option. At the end of the day, I try to stay out of chansey unless I need wishes because it can really hurt momentum. Think of chansey as a midgame pitstop. If you have to fodder it off, you don't lose too much as everything else can manage to the special metagame if you work at it. The wishes are the important part, that is all.
This team has a weird threat list, at least to me.
Excadrill @LO
I have no good answer for this one, but I can check it with Gliscor/Rhyperior/Blast, all who can OHKO. It just deals too much damage when it gets a free switch. However, the team is difficult for excadrill to switch in on, at least.
Gyarados-Mega
This guy is a royal pain in the ass. Amoongus is 2hko'd by Ice Fang at +1, Blastoise can check it down fine and Chansey isn't quite 2hko'd at +12, but you really should be foddering chansey by S-tossing it to death. Doublade COULD run Sacred Sword as it can survive +3 EQ, but that's up in the air on what to do.
Alakazam-M
I do now have an answer, but taunt alakazam mega is annoying to beat because it can simply stop Chansey from recovering. If it has shadow ball, it is absolutely destroying doublade, too. Blastoise can OHKO it, needs some health.
Bisharp
While really not much more than an annoyance if Blastoise is healthy, you do basically lose a great mon's functionality for the rest of the match to take care of a +2 bisharp.
Excadrill @LO
I have no good answer for this one, but I can check it with Gliscor/Rhyperior/Blast, all who can OHKO. It just deals too much damage when it gets a free switch. However, the team is difficult for excadrill to switch in on, at least.
Gyarados-Mega
This guy is a royal pain in the ass. Amoongus is 2hko'd by Ice Fang at +1, Blastoise can check it down fine and Chansey isn't quite 2hko'd at +12, but you really should be foddering chansey by S-tossing it to death. Doublade COULD run Sacred Sword as it can survive +3 EQ, but that's up in the air on what to do.
Alakazam-M
I do now have an answer, but taunt alakazam mega is annoying to beat because it can simply stop Chansey from recovering. If it has shadow ball, it is absolutely destroying doublade, too. Blastoise can OHKO it, needs some health.
Bisharp
While really not much more than an annoyance if Blastoise is healthy, you do basically lose a great mon's functionality for the rest of the match to take care of a +2 bisharp.
Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 212 HP / 44 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 240 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Sacred Sword
- Gyro Ball
- Shadow Sneak
- Rest
Blastoise-Mega @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpA
Bold Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Dark Pulse
- Aura Sphere
- Scald
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Heal Bell
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 176 SpD / 88 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Roost
Amoonguss (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD
Bold Nature
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 212 HP / 44 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 240 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Sacred Sword
- Gyro Ball
- Shadow Sneak
- Rest
Blastoise-Mega @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpA
Bold Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Dark Pulse
- Aura Sphere
- Scald
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Heal Bell
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 176 SpD / 88 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Roost
Amoonguss (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD
Bold Nature
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Hidden Power [Fire]
As I've said, this team was MAINLY possible due to TFL's and Jukain's help. They gave quite a bit of insight on what they thought needed adjustments and such, and three of the mon changes would come off their combined advice.
Monte Cristo and I spent a long time talking about the team and adjustments, but mainly just spend a long time talking about how he can enjoy mangoes/grapefruit or something.
WECAMEASROMANS who perhaps unintentionally exposed a hole to AlakazamM.
There's also a bunch of guys I hang out with who make playing this game any bit interesting. However, I don't feel like tagging everyone because why act like this is some xk post?
Monte Cristo and I spent a long time talking about the team and adjustments, but mainly just spend a long time talking about how he can enjoy mangoes/grapefruit or something.
WECAMEASROMANS who perhaps unintentionally exposed a hole to AlakazamM.
There's also a bunch of guys I hang out with who make playing this game any bit interesting. However, I don't feel like tagging everyone because why act like this is some xk post?
Closing thoughts:
Stall currently looks odd, to say the least. But I guess that's what I wanted from the beginning. Seeing a metagame where stall CAN'T be classified by a few archtypes makes me happy because even I found VenuTran stall boring after a few months. Hell, right now looking at the stall teams I've seen, I've not seen any real trends outside of the earlier mentioned speedy psychic/doublade trend. It's got good things on the horizon in ORAS and right now it has some people showing off some uncanny building skills. While not as dominate as it was with aegislash, stall does still possess a great deal of potential.
Of course I'd like opinions on how to improve the team. It's basically done with a few modifications maybe to be added in, but there's always genius in suggestions.
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