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Gen 3 stall team

snookajam

i like using stall teams. they're fun
so i made a new one



Zapdos @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Spd / 224 SDef
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Rest
- Roar
- Sleep Talk
- Thunderbolt

sleeptalking zapdos with roar. i feel like using modest since its special attack stat is higher than special defence, so i dumped all extra evs into sp def.
this zapdos is kinda like the one here
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37011
i have explanation for why i use roar there. its mainly because i don't have problems against swampert, and roar is much better to do double spikes damage
mainly counters: gyarados, celebi, bulky waters like swampert and milotic

Skarmory (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 192 Def / 20 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Spikes
- Toxic
- Whirlwind

standard skarm. adapted from my previous team too
mainly counters: physical attackers like heracross and metagross.
kills last pokemon with toxic too. rest curselax is explained later

Dusclops (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 56 Def / 164 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Rest
- Shadow Ball
- Sleep Talk
- Will-O-Wisp

also from the previous team, but with shadowball over toxic after i reviewed some stuff. mainly because spinners like starmie won't like staying into a shadowball, and my nice special defence makes taking surf easy coupled with rest. main absorber of sleep.
mainly counters: rapid spinners. will-o-wisp other pokemon and totally shuts down snorlax


Donphan (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Atk / 188 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Rapid Spin
- Rest

ok this is actually the first time i'm using donphan in a serious team. so far its done very nicely - cos i haven't met with any ghosts to block my spin. doesn't really need to rest since it often receives wish from blissey. less often vaporeon
mainly counters: tyranitar, spikers. walls physical hits well


Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd / 36 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Growl
- Protect
- Seismic Toss
- Wish

growl as a phazer. it works wonders against stuff like t-tar switch ins. in my recent battle, the enemy had a CBtar. i either wished or growled when he switched in, protect to check for moves. switch to donphan if he rockslides. attack if he focus punches. very nice :)
works to stall curselax's curse pp (curse has 16 compared to 64 growls) and help stuff like donphan and skarm take hits easier.
looking at the things that like switching into blissey: heracross, metagross, tyranitar.
growl hits 2 of these guys and makes tanking for my switch so much easier. metagross may be immune to stat-drops, but i have skarm to take meteor mashes
mainly counters: special attackers of course. zapdos, raikou, regice all get outstalled or chased off. can also hold its own against physical attackers with growl - as in to make life easier for my physical walls

Vaporeon (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Protect
- Surf
- Wish

i initially wanted toxic, but i later decided that ice beam would be better since i can't really handle threats like flygon much with my other pokemon, and donphan wouldn't really be that reliable against salamence all the time. surf for stab damage. maybe toxic over surf?
wish on 2 pokemon makes my team really solid.
mainly counters: salamence, metagross, suicune, swampert and the like


Type Resists
Normal - skarmory, dusclops
Fighting - zapdos, dusclops
Flying - zapdos, skarmory
Ground - skarmory, zapdos
Rock - donphan
Steel - zapdos, skarmory, vaporeon
Bug - zapdos, skarmory, dusclops
Poison - skarmory, dusclops
Ghost - skarmory, blissey
Water - blissey, vaporeon
Fire - blissey, vaporeon
Grass - zapdos, skarmory, dusclops, blissey
Electric - donphan, blissey
Dragon - skarmory, blissey
Dark - skarmory, blissey
Psychic - skarmory, blissey
Ice - blissey, vaporeon




threat list - taken from the ou list
http://www.smogon.com/rs/tiers/ou

Aerodactyl - donphan resists rockslide, easily survives its other attacks. vaporeon also does nicely against stuff like eq and can chase it away with surf. zapdos and skarm are immune to eq, dusclops to double edge. skarm chases it away if its not using rockslide



Blaziken - donphan stops its physical side. dusclops is immune to reversal. best counter is vaporeon, who easily survives thunderpunch and can well wish its way back to full health before using surf. not like blaziken is staying in

Blissey - given its nature as a wall instead of an attacker, blissey isn't a threat =/ i.e. it can't do anything to my team of blissey, vaporeon, dusclops, zapdos



Celebi - celebis are either stallers (zapdos, skarm, blissey, vaporeon, dusclops eventually drain it out of psychic/leech seed pp), or baton passers (zapdos, skarm)


Claydol - only good at spinning. i use dusclops to block, burn and ball it (lol abbreviation)


Donphan - uh don't really see this around, but i guess vaporeon and skarm will eventually chase it away



Dragonite - unpopular too. hmm, i guess vaporeon could ice beam it, but will need some prediction in for fear of thunderbolt



Dugtrio - screw dugtrio. dugtrio is gay and i won't fight a dugtrio if i know my opponent has one.
anyway it can trap 4 of my team. dusclops will definitely survive eq and burn it, later resting. vaporeon will hopefully survive, wish, protect stall and later surf. blissey with some luck growl it while continuously wishing and protecting. donphan would rape it if he tries to switch in. note that this is assuming i have high health =/
not like any team has a real counter to dugtrio anyways



Dusclops - zapdos roars him and he can't do much to most of my team members anyway. i wonder hows a dusclops vs dusclops fight...



Flygon - flygon won't 2hko vaporeon without a CB or CH, so i can ice beam it or switch to a flier.



Gengar - dusclops shrugs off his special attacks and can shadow ball or WoW him



Gyarados - zapdos, donphan



Heracross - a few versions. CBversions - dusclops takes fighting moves, skarm takes megahorn. won't be switching in much anyway.
mopcross - skarm keeps it at bay with hp flying and can whirlwind away swords dance versions



Jirachi - stallers with body slam are easily forced into switching through roar/whirlwind. calm mind versions without tbolt can be handled by skarm, others by zapdos...i guess.

might have slight problems if his psychic hits donphan too hard



Jolteon - blissey



Ludicolo - blissey, zapdos, vaporeon, dusclops all outstall him



Magneton - blissey seismic tosses it. donphan can take on hp fire versions. i'll make sure its dead before getting skarm to spike



Medicham - mostly CB versions. i can check for its moves when i use protect with bliss and vaporeon or just outpredict and whack him



Metagross - skarm spikes in front of standard metagrosses. it can also survive thunderpunch, switch to donphan and chase it away. or maybe zapdos for those without rockslide. vaporeon helps too



Milotic - zapdos can rest off damage from milotic



Raikou - blissey seismic tosses him



Regice - blissey stalls out his pp. they'll eventually switch out sooner or later. i sometimes use dusclops as a special wall too



Salamence - CBversions: hp flying, flamethrower, eq, rockslide all have plenty of resists.
dragon dance versions are killed/chased away by vaporeon



Sceptile - sub seeding ones can be roared away. blissey stops special sweeping versions

Skarmory - donphan spins away spikes



Slaking - just out predict him. skarm will definitely survive all manners of his attacks barring CH. protect helps =]



Snorlax - they're all either mixlax or curselax. if skarm gets hit by his fire blast, switch to dusclops. pressure takes away 2. i can will-o-wisp it so that shadowball would do shit damage.
last pokemon curselax can be stopped by firstly will-o-wisping it. after it needs to rest, bring in blissey. growl with 64 pp easily drains curselax of its cuse pp (16). he'll probably forfeit, but if the opponent insists on fighting, i'll just wait for donphan to CH with EQ.



Starmie - dusclops blocks spin and uses shadowball. zapdos uses thunderbolt



Suicune - a mixture of vaporeon and blissey can take on +6 surf and icebeams all day till he runs out of pp (providing they don't switch out). zapdos can thunderbolt him

Swampert - vaporeon, dusclops, zapdos outstall him, especially after he's been hit with toxic


Tyranitar - donphan is a really good t-tar counter


Umbreon - lol umbreon doesn't attack. i could toxic him with skarm and phaze any of his meanlook efforts...unless its chaosbreon but then i haven't seen one


Vaporeon - zapdos. blissey and dusclops can outstall, or even my own vaporeon


Weezing - i have plenty of status takers - zapdos, blissey, donphan, dusclops. dusclops could wisp him back. weezing wouldn't want taking surf or thunderbolt either



zapdos - blissey stalls






following some advice on my previous stall team, i've made this new one. everyone can attack now, so the enemy would be kept on his toes. i haven't had any glaring weaknesses so far. rate away


by the way i seem to see a trend in this forums - that whenever one guy provides a shitlot of explanation for his team, it is deemed "great" or whenever a mod/admin posts some team, people declare it great as well. anyone agrees with this?
NOTE: the main topic is still the team, not the point above, so don't go debating about it too much thanks
 
I feel sorry that this is the first time you've used this on a serious team.

I've actually seen this same exact team a long time ago, just with a few different moves. It worked pretty well back then, it should work now. Just watch yourself around Blaziken.
 
On Donphan, I like using HP Ghost over HP Rock, because the main Flying types you'll see are Zapdos Gyara and Mence, and the occassional Aerodactyl. If Donphan is Impish + lots of Def then Rock will do close to shit damage if Gyara/Mence has at least some HP. As for levitators, Gengar and Claydol are taken down by Ghost, and Flygon won't care either way.
The set I like using is EQ/Spin/Ghost/Counter or HP Fire. Counter is an easy kill on most Zapdos, and with 2 Wishers you can probably afford the loss of Rest. HP Fire is interesting but can rape Forretress and I believe Donphan's min SpAtk with Relaxed does like ~30 to Skarm, but I'll need someone to check on that.
 
Trouble man said:
You've seen this team 8 million times.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen this team either D:

Anyways, marowak weak? ( just thinking up of random counters )
if it gets any chances to switch in and get sd up, it could be somewhat a pain. And rs flinch could fuck up skarm, but eh.
 
Synchronize said:
I feel sorry that this is the first time you've used this on a serious team.

I've actually seen this same exact team a long time ago, just with a few different moves. It worked pretty well back then, it should work now. Just watch yourself around Blaziken.
Click to expand...

haha i just didn't like using donphan. too easily killed by random stuff
lol how could u remember seeing all 6 pokemon a long time ago?



touched said:
On Donphan, I like using HP Ghost over HP Rock, because the main Flying types you'll see are Zapdos Gyara and Mence, and the occassional Aerodactyl. If Donphan is Impish + lots of Def then Rock will do close to shit damage if Gyara/Mence has at least some HP. As for levitators, Gengar and Claydol are taken down by Ghost, and Flygon won't care either way.
The set I like using is EQ/Spin/Ghost/Counter or HP Fire. Counter is an easy kill on most Zapdos, and with 2 Wishers you can probably afford the loss of Rest. HP Fire is interesting but can rape Forretress and I believe Donphan's min SpAtk with Relaxed does like ~30 to Skarm, but I'll need someone to check on that.
Click to expand...

hp rock after being intimidated does 30-37% to standard DDmence with 116hp evs, and that isn't too bad
zapdos happens to use hp grass/ice instead of...drill peck??? so i can't use counter. eq does enough to take down DDtar and i don't need counter then
your hp fire suggestion does 28-32%, enough to break skarm's sub, but i'm probably better off with hp grass to 3hko swampert. maybe i'll try it out


Cruiselax said:
I haven't seen this team either D:

Anyways, marowak weak? ( just thinking up of random counters )
if it gets any chances to switch in and get sd up, it could be somewhat a pain. And rs flinch could fuck up skarm, but eh.
Click to expand...
any suggestions on countering marowak?
 
Cruiselax said:
I haven't seen this team either D:

Anyways, marowak weak? ( just thinking up of random counters )
if it gets any chances to switch in and get sd up, it could be somewhat a pain. And rs flinch could fuck up skarm, but eh.
Click to expand...
if this team is wak weak, all teams are.
 
Actually all teams are weak to a speeded up Wak.

The problem is, if Wak gets in safely, without Speed boosts or anything, it'll SD and cause troubles.

Zapdos can't touch it and is OHKO'd.
Skarmory sure doesn't like taking a +2 Rock Slide/HP Rock from Wak before PHazing it.
Lol @ Blissey and Clops.
Donphan is 2HKO'd before it can 2HKO.
Vappy is OHKO'd.

That being said he is kinda Marowak weak =P
 
It's hard to rate any stall team with the presumption that the other person has Magneton. With the Skarmory gone, so many things will sweep...so kind of moot I suppose.
 
Marowak is not a problem at all if you got a few layers of spikes down. (and i dont recall seeing anyone using a wak with a spinner) But yeah, seeing how wak outspeeds/2hko most of your pokes without statups, it'll cause some havoc.

And according to the dam.cal donphan takes about 72~92% from a +2wak's eq, so it wont be using counter anytime soon.

Edit: Assuming wak even have enough hp to keep switching in.
 
touched said:
Hidden Power is a physical move, hence, counterable.
Click to expand...

no you said "counter is an easy kill on zapdos". in other words zapdos uses hidden power on my donphan. i can't counter special hidden powers like grass or ice

Dekzeh said:
Actually all teams are weak to a speeded up Wak.

The problem is, if Wak gets in safely, without Speed boosts or anything, it'll SD and cause troubles.

Zapdos can't touch it and is OHKO'd.
Skarmory sure doesn't like taking a +2 Rock Slide/HP Rock from Wak before PHazing it.
Lol @ Blissey and Clops.
Donphan is 2HKO'd before it can 2HKO.
Vappy is OHKO'd.

That being said he is kinda Marowak weak =P
Click to expand...

first off most marowaks aren't coming in without speed boost. in that case they're waiting for ninjask to give them some. most ninjasks are starters. turn 1 i tbolt and break his sub. turn 2 i tbolt and break his sub again. turn 3 if he subs i roar. if he passes i also roar. either way ninjask is down to <40% hp if he subs 3 times.
hopefully by the time marowak comes in i would have status-ed it or brought it down to low enough health.
or maybe he switches in and i get to whack him. i may have to sacrifice something and then get vaporeon out. i haven't checked the damage calculator but vaporeon MIGHT survive and attack and surf him.


Cruiselax said:
Marowak is not a problem at all if you got a few layers of spikes down. (and i dont recall seeing anyone using a wak with a spinner) But yeah, seeing how wak outspeeds/2hko most of your pokes without statups, it'll cause some havoc.

And according to the dam.cal donphan takes about 72~92% from a +2wak's eq, so it wont be using counter anytime soon.

Edit: Assuming wak even have enough hp to keep switching in.
Click to expand...


kk i think i get the point that my team may be marowak weak, but cmon which team is able to keep taking blows from it anyway? you would probably use skarm or some bulky water against it, of which i possess both in my team. so pls suggest how to change my team instead of going on and on about me being marowak weak

im not insulting anyone here, just that i'm bad at writing in a nice tone =]
 
nah, you don't sound like a threating person at all. ;)

And like I said before, wak can't keep switching onto the field without taking someshort of damage, this means it won't last very long.

Also, hidden power (regardless of type) can be countered. (I was a bit surprised myself when I first found out)
 
ok so how's this?
(actually its almost the same)

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Spd / 224 SDef
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Rest
- Roar
- Sleep Talk
- Thunderbolt

Skarmory (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 192 Def / 20 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Spikes
- Toxic
- Whirlwind

Dusclops (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 56 Def / 164 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Rest
- Shadow Ball
- Sleep Talk
- Will-O-Wisp

Donphan (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Atk / 188 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Counter
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Rapid Spin

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd / 36 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Growl
- Protect
- Seismic Toss
- Wish

Vaporeon (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Protect
- Surf
- Wish

i checked the damage calculator. donphan loses about 55% of his hp to a hp ice/grass to the standard restalk zapdos. counter would kill zapdos immediately


btw on netbattle cruiselax u suggested that i use gyarados in place of vaporeon and have toxic on donphan, roar on gyarados
vaporeon is superior over gyarados on my team for several reasons:
1. passes wish. very important to people like skarm and donphan. its much better to have 2 wishers instead of 1.
2. if i get gyarados i may lose coverage against salamence and flygon. gyarados isn't going to beat a salamence with rock slide, and counter donphan isn't that reliable
 
Considering Skarmory and Donphan are those niggas that Blissey can easily pass wishes to, Vaporeon really doesn't hold that much of an advantage over Gyarados as it applies this team and the reason you gave. I'd probably be switching Milotic, though, Since Light Screen or Hypnosis could be valuable additions to the team.
 
lol counter donphan rocks
so far i've killed 4 zapdos who used hp grass/ice on me with counter. i would loved to have seen the look on their faces when they saw donphan countering hidden power
2 marowaks also tried killing me. i switched out donphan while they swords danced. one used bonemerang, the other eq. either case both did exactly 370 damage to my donphan which survived and countered the shit out of them. whether they were adamant or jolly or not i have no idea. anyway i managed to get rid of those 2 marowaks.


i think vaporeon is fine on this team, and it has passed wish a lot of times too
 
TBoah opens a huge hole with it hitting blissey,skarmory,vaporeon hard. Crunch does in the 35-40% range to Zapdos and about 50% to Donphan. TTar outspeeds Dphan. It can break this team down as w/e saw in our battle.

So, maybe other mixed/random stuff can take this on, too. CBDos..FBlast Lax w/ curse. Just my 2 cents.

BTW Smogon's quotes that are pinned rock!
wanna? lose
Click to expand...
 
Mablak said:
TBoah opens a huge hole with it hitting blissey,skarmory,vaporeon hard. Crunch does in the 35-40% range to Zapdos and about 50% to Donphan. TTar outspeeds Dphan. It can break this team down as w/e saw in our battle.

So, maybe other mixed/random stuff can take this on, too. CBDos..FBlast Lax w/ curse. Just my 2 cents.

BTW Smogon's quotes that are pinned rock!
Click to expand...
Who the fuck uses curselax with FB? >_>
It's a stall team so ofc boah hurts it. And I can't see it being more of a problem than to other stall teams. Zap walls it all day with resttalk, and vappy and phan can take some hits. He has two wishers to keep vappy and phan alive,
and boah can't keep coming in forever with 3 layers down.
CBDos? I can't see that being a problem, and it's quite rare :/
 
Mablak said:
TBoah opens a huge hole with it hitting blissey,skarmory,vaporeon hard. Crunch does in the 35-40% range to Zapdos and about 50% to Donphan. TTar outspeeds Dphan. It can break this team down as w/e saw in our battle.

So, maybe other mixed/random stuff can take this on, too. CBDos..FBlast Lax w/ curse. Just my 2 cents.

BTW Smogon's quotes that are pinned rock!
Click to expand...

sry crunch does less than that to zapdos and donphan.
knowing fully well that i would be using this team you challenged me with boah --> in the first place this gives you an advantage
the second thing that broke down the team was your bloody crunch attacks. it has a freaking 30% chance of lowering sp. def. but out of the 8-9 times you used crunch on my zapdos, only 2 didn't had a sp.def drop. its totally ridiculous. i have no idea which hax god made that happen, but as long as that spdef drop doesn't happen as often as yours (once or twice is easy to handle), im pretty sure my team can handle boah.
vaporeon will definitely survive 1 tbolt (i think 70+% or so). i surf you. either you run or you get hit for 70%. switch to zapdos and you're screwed. stay in and get killed by tbolt or switch out and get more spikes damage next time. even if i dont have spikes up you're not gonna have an easy time coming in.


CBdos first of all isn't going to OHKO blissey with drillpeck. naturally i'd switch out. the next time im sending in my own zapdos, who isn't going to be killed by your drill peck or thunder or hp fighting/ground whatever attacks

tell me your curselax set. im assuming fireblast, curse, return, rest/shadowball/eq
1) thats not going to 2hko skarm. the first time my skarm gets hit by fireblast im switching to dusclops, and unless the enemy knows my entire team he's not going to shadowball, i.e. i get to will-o-wisp him. i can afford to miss twice anyway. if somehow or another i can't willowisp you i'd just go to zapdos and chase you away temporarily, and will heal my pokemon the next time
2) growl owns you
3) you're gonna run out of fireblast pp before you hit skarm twice
 
Boah's crunch does around 25% to a normal bulky dos, but never over 35%.

And snookjam, I was saying that you should use toxic / counter on phan to wear out zapdos so gyra gets a easy sweep. ( like you mention, counter ohkos zapdos )

You should also consider putting hp bug over rock on phan, seeing how zapdos + skarm counters ddmence 99% of the time, you wont even need phan. hpbug also lures your foes zapdos to switch against phan, and thats where counter comes in. But yeah, putting bug over rock makes it hard to rapidspin against subskarm, its not like rock is going to prevent it anytime soon.
 
Cruiselax said:
Boah's crunch does around 25% to a normal bulky dos, but never over 35%.

And snookjam, I was saying that you should use toxic / counter on phan to wear out zapdos so gyra gets a easy sweep. ( like you mention, counter ohkos zapdos )

You should also consider putting hp bug over rock on phan, seeing how zapdos + skarm counters ddmence 99% of the time, you wont even need phan. hpbug also lures your foes zapdos to switch against phan, and thats where counter comes in. But yeah, putting bug over rock makes it hard to rapidspin against subskarm, its not like rock is going to prevent it anytime soon.
Click to expand...

which is why i shouldn't be having problems with boah save a shit lot of hax like what happened :p

im going counter in the toxic/counter suggestion on yours, since counter kills zapdos whereas toxic just causes it to rest. no point poisoning zapdos if i can kill it immediately right?

After using this team for quite a number of battles, i realised that theres quite a number of battles where i dont need to use donphan (unless the enemy uses spikes, zapdos, aerodactyl or t-tar), lest of all hp rock (so far i remember only 4 times out of countless battles). so the suggestion to take out hp rock seems reasonable, though im not gonna use bug.
Firstly we see why we need to use hp bug.
1) celebi
2) t-tar perhaps
3) other grass pokemon e.g. sceptile

celebi will get owned by a hp bug if it switches in, but i can handle it with all my other 5 pokemon who can easily heal back lost hp and drain him of psychic/leechseed pp.
eq handles ttar
grass pokemon like sceptile are rare, and hp bug isn't gonna do more than eq to venusaur

on the other hand i was thinking of something like hp ghost. the 2 main ghosts pokemon used to block rapid spin are gengar and dusclops. naturally a more defensive orientated team would have dusclops, but gengar is far more common. hp rock isn't gonna kill it in time before he 2hkos me with ice punch, but hp ghost will catch him by surprise when he switches in. i think hp ghost does less than eq to dusclops but whatever. i have no problem with dusclops since i get my own 3 layers of spikes out, and with some phazing get dusclops in the 2hko eq range. hence hp ghost would be useful to pick off gengar.

zapdos+skarm does not handle salamence that well. if its a CBmence and i need some help in prediction, i'd bring in vaporeon, who would easily shrug off the damage with wish and protect. compare this to zapdos and skarm. one would get 1hko with rock slide while the other takes a shitload from fireblast and can't heal itself reliably. that puts me in a difficult position and it may not be easy getting a chance to pass with from blissey alone if i get gyarados over vaporeon.
DDmence kinda kills skarm with rockslide too if it gets in some rockslides. the only thing i can do is toxic/whirlwind. toxic can't kill it in time before he kills me, while whirlwind makes me susceptible to flinchhax. and of course i can't heal easily even after chasing him away. i.e. i need something else to kill ddmence. gyarados doesn't have ice fang, and i'm not planning to get hit by rockslide even after intimidating him.

explain how hp bug lures enemy zapdos in. you mean when i hp bug his celebi? i'd say in most situations he would have killed me with psychic or gotten back enough hp with leechseed to survive another hp bug. its easy to bring donphan in against a zapdos tbolt anyways.
 
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