Stall

[insomniac]

So I've been trying to create a stall team. Since I've nearly always used hyper-offensive teams I thought I'd try to see how I do with something completely opposite. So far it's been a very bumpy road and it's taking some time getting used to it.

This is what I have so far, I've made a few changes here and there but this so far works the best. I'm sure it could be improved a lot.

Jirachi@Leftovers
HP 80/ATK 252/SPE 176
Jolly
~Grass Knot
~Iron Head
~Stealth Rock
~Thunder-Wave

-I thought I could use Jirachi since you don't really know what kind of lead it will be. I didn't want TrickScarf because I usually get screwed over, so I went with Thunder-Wave. If anyone wants to bring in their Scarfer to Rachi it's just gonna get Paralyzed so it benefits me. Grass Knot is for mainly Swampert...just to scare if off since it won't do a lot of damage. Iron Head is for STAB and for flinch hax. It's also great for killing Ice-types like Weavile or Aero leads.

Forretress@Leftovers
HP 252/DEF 144/SPDEF 112
Careful
~Payback
~Rapid Spin
~Spikes
~Toxic Spikes

-I needed a Rapid Spinner for this team, and I also needed something that can lay down more entry hazards. So I went with Fory. Now I took the 112 ATK EVs and put them in SPDEF just because I think he needs it more there than ATK. I don't plan on sitting there using Payback all day and it does enough damage to Psychic or Ghost types already. But yeah this guy just lays down as much entry hazards as possible and Rapid Spins.

@Leftovers
HP 252/DEF 252/SPE 4
Bold
~Rest
~Roar
~Sleep Talk
~Surf

-So now that I had Fory I wanted a pHazer. I had a Rest+SleepTalk Gyara but replaced him with this. I just felt that if Fory couldn't spin Stealth Rock away, I didn't wanna worry about it. So yeah he usually comes in on Fire attacks aimed at my steel types or if I know a Pokemon will sit there and try to set up, I bring him in, he's bulky enough to take most hits and then pHaze. Works best against Baton Pass teams because they don't expect the Roar, they think I will try to set up on them.

Tyarnitar@Leftovers
HP 252/DEF 40/SPDEF 216
Careful
~Curse
~Payback
~Rest
~Sleep Talk

-He's here mostly for Sandstorm, so guys that have Life Orb and are effected by Sandstorm will die much faster. This guy also is a really big pain to take down if he gets up 2-3 Curses. Also since these days he's usually Scarfed people tend to run away with Gyarados or Salamence. No complaints really, it just takes time to set him up properly. Rest+Sleep Talk is self explanatory.

Rotom-h@Leftovers
HP 252/DEF 168/SPE 88
Bold
~Pain Split
~Shadow Ball
~Thunderbolt
~Will-O-Wisp

-He can switch in on Swampert, Scizor, Tyranitar, or Gyaraods and either Burn them or scare them away(except Ttar). He can also scare away things like Metagross or other Jirachi fearing Overheat. Since I saw he had access to Pain Split I grabbed him, it's a great recovery move and people usually don't expect it at all. Thunderbolt and Shadow Ball are just for STAB and he CAN live like Shadow Ball from some Gengar or Psychic from Celebi and KO back.

Vaporeon@Leftovers
HP 188/DEF 252/SPE 68
Bold
~Protect
~Surf
~Toxic
~Wish

-Basically takes water attacks for Ttar. Can help take down Mence or Gyarados if I'm lucky enough to land the Toxic. Other than that it's just a great Toxic Staller, and also helps the team by passing Wish. Not the best wall but with Wish and Toxic it can do quite a bit of damage if played correctly.

Anyways that's my team. Any comments or criticism is welcomed. Thanks in advance.

 

[Doctor Who?]

This is a pretty nice team. What is the third pokemon since I'm accessing from my school so the sprites are blocked? I have a sneaking suspician it is a Suicune but can you clear that up?

Maybe you could use some sort of Subtran instead of Vaporeon so that it is a lot more reliable you will nail a Gyarados or Salamence with Toxic since you are luring them in because this team could have some Salamence problems. Vaporeon isn't really needed when you have Suicune (?) and Rotom covering the things he does.

Use 252 HP on Vaporeon. It hits a jump point and the speed is unecessary.

 

[insomniac]

This is a pretty nice team. What is the third pokemon since I'm accessing from my school so the sprites are blocked? I have a sneaking suspician it is a Suicune but can you clear that up?

Maybe you could use some sort of Subtran instead of Vaporeon so that it is a lot more reliable you will nail a Gyarados or Salamence with Toxic since you are luring them in because this team could have some Salamence problems. Vaporeon isn't really needed when you have Suicune (?) and Rotom covering the things he does.

Use 252 HP on Vaporeon. It hits a jump point and the speed is unecessary.

Ah yes the 3rd Pokemon is Suicune.

And I will try Subtran for a while and see how that goes. Thanks for your advice.

 

[Ankoku]

How do you deal with another stall team? 2/3 of your team is just as vulnerable to Toxic as your opponent is.

Vaporeon can come in to take a hit from Gyarados, but with your only damaging attack on it being Surf, you're in trouble if the Gyarados uses Taunt. Even though Jirachi is base 100, investing nothing in SAtk will not make Grass Knot a particularly threatening attack, and by completely lacking any coverage in Ground or Fire type, you leave yourself open to Steel-typed sweepers like Metagross and Lucario. Also, the absolute lack of any Ice is gonna let Dragons set up on you for free.

 

[Plus]

Hello.

At a glance, I can see that Sub CM Jirachi can prove to be a tough opponent to take down -- you really don't have much apart from Tyranitar that beats it, and it is able to beat you down with Flash Cannon before you beat it with Paybacks. After 1 CM it can pretty much get past all of your team except for Tyranitar, and you definitely don't want to rely on Suicune to phaze it out with Roar. Wish variants can also be quite annoying, although you have Status to cripple it to an extent you still face the same problem insofar as you really have nothing to damage it significantly before it hits you back with real damage. SD Lucario also poses a problem to this team -- while Adamant Lucario are dealt with by Thunder Waving + Saccing Jirachi in the process, then proceeding to kill with another pokemon, Jolly Lucario is a different story. It can rip holes in your team, and I'm mostly concerned about late game play where I'd expect your Suicune to be whittled down. The opponent would have multiple opportunities in Forretress and Tyranitar to just lay down the hurt, per se. Lastly, your Breloom weakness stands out a bit as well. Forretress and Tyranitar still give your team an opening for it to come in, spore, and start seed bomb / focus punch spamming all over the place. Rotom-h and Jirachi would be your best responses, but Rotom-h takes a handful from Seed Bomb and is slower than the standard, and Jirachi would be taking a super heavy hit from Focus Punch.

Continuing on, your lack of an ice or rock move really hurts you against Salamence and Dragonite. Mixmence's only fear is probably just status from Rotom-h and Jirachi. If you really want to sacrifice a Rotom or Jirachi just to lay down a para or a burn, be my guest. However, you aren't even guaranteed that chance because Mixmence can just fire off any of its moves to kill you if you aren't at a reasonable health. Heal Bell + Dragon Dance Dragonite is a huge threat to this team, luckily you don't have to deal with it until late game thanks to your phazers and what not, but it can just heal off the status that you throw at it and get +6 DD because of your lack of an offensive attack that significantly deals enough damage instantly. Gyarados, the Taunt variant in particular also will be able to get up many DDs because of that very same reason, and just play around with your team using Waterfall and Earthquake.

If you haven't guessed by now, I think that the problem with your team is that there's not enough power to force out the threats that really threaten your team. Although this is a stall team, any team as a whole needs to be able to beat opposing pokemon rather than just a measly phaze. To start off, you probably want Ground and Ice attacks to address the Dragon + Jirachi problem you seem to have. You could use a Stealth Rock lead Swampert (or you can use forry as a lead and just use swampert as another team mate) while changing Jirachi to Wish support. This way, you have some kind of way to beat on Dragons, while you have arguably more reliable wish support. Jirachi probably does better for your team wishing than Vaporeon, as Jirachi lures in stuff like Swampert and Heatran which the majority of your team can switch into. Next off, consider scarfing Rotom-h so you can outspeed +1 Gyarados, SD lucario, and other fast pokemon that your team can't handle. Your team lacks the speed, and it's also a little stall weak. Using Scarf Rotom will give you an anti stall weapon as well as something against offensive teams as well.

These are generally quick fixes to a multitude of problems I see with your team, so here are my detailed suggestions in short.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Jolly 252 hp / 176 def / 80 spe
Iron head / body slam / uturn / wish

Rotom-h @ choice scarf
timid 252 spa / 252 spe / 4 hp
tbolt / shadow ball / trick / overheat

Swampert @ leftovers (over vaporeon; lead with either this or forry)
relaxed 252 hp / 252 def / 4 spe
earthquake / ice beam / stealth rock / protect

good luck with your team.