Strong team, strong tier

[locopoke]

rate plz

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Mewtwo @ Life Orb / Lum Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 40 HP/216 Spd/252 SAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Aura Sphere
- Grass Knot
- Flamethrower
- Selfdestruct

This is a pretty cool lead. Normally when you think of Mewtwo leads the first thing that comes to your mind is ScarfTwo with Trick, but I've found this set to be a lot better. The most popular uber leads (based on the july statistics) are Deoxys-e, Deoxys-f, Kyogre, Groudon, Darkrai, Forretress and Dialga. Mewtwo is able to hit each of those Pokemon with a super effective move and 2HKO them 100% of the time(or OHKO in Forretress' case).The EVs give me just enough speed to outrun non scarfed timid max/max Darkrai.

Groudon @ Leftovers
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP/60 Atk/136 Def/60 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Thunder Wave

Unlike most teams, my lead does not set up any entry hazards and is more focused on defeating common leads. Offensive teams are nothing without stealth rock which is why I knew that the second Pokemon on my team needed to provide me with entry hazards, and Groudon is the perfect mon for the job. Groudon is a very reliable Pokemon and finds many opportunities to set up rocks and is also able to cripple certain Pokemon with Thunder Wave. I made sure that Groudon could also serve as an answer to SD and DD Ray by providing him with a more physically defensive EV Spread. Groudon takes no more than 99% from +2 LO Adamant Rayquaza's Waterfall which means that he will be able to survive 67% of the time even with rocks damage. Groudon can also stop RP 'Don's from sweeping me if Kyogre is out of commision.

Scizor (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 244 HP/22 Atk/76 Def/168 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Roost
- Toxic

Most prefer to use CB Scizor in ubers but I've taken a more defensive approach here. This Scizor can take hits much better than any other Scizor can. If I manage to get sunlight up and running, this mon can serve as a makeshift Kyogre counter by poisoning them and roosting away the damage or even U-Turning out to another mon and attempting to set up.

Right now you're probably wondering why I decided to use Toxic on a pokemon such as Scizor when he is normally used offensively. The main reason is because after battling with this team a few times, I realized that I had no good way of dealing with Lugia. If Darkrai went down early, then Lugia could come in and just keep Whirlwinding and Roosting until all of my Pokemon were weak from Spikes/SR damage. Then I figured I could make Scizor a bit more defensive and give him Toxic as a nice surprise for all of those Lugia switch-ins. Not only that, but with Scizor's great typing, he can help against many other Pokemon as well.

Offense in ubers is basically "who can sweep first", and if Groudon is out of commision, Rayquaza and RP/SD Don can give me quite a bit of trouble. That's where Scizor comes in. By poisoning one of them while they try to set up, I ensure my teams safety and avoid being swept.

Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/6 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Surf
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
- Calm Mind

Kyogre is such a great Pokemon... so versatile. Just like CroCune in OU, this Kyogre is my answer to stall. This thing is pretty deadly. If I can manage to get a few boosts then I've pretty much won the match. Thanks to the defensive EV spread, Kyogre also serves as a counter to RP Groudon. Kyogre can usually switch into Palkia Surfs and get a CM boost and begin to sweep.

Darkrai @ Lum Berry
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Dark Void
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast

Darkrai is cool and a great setup sweeper. My team has problems with SpecsOgre (who doesn't?) so I usually end up sacrificing somebody and bringing this guy in to put her to sleep. I've learned after using NP Darkrai for so long that once you put a Pokemon to sleep it's never a good idea to use nasty plot right away, because they will most likely bring in a Pokemon who can KO you. I normally use Dark Pulse on the switch since Mewtwo is a very common Darkrai switch-in and Dark Pulse OHKOs max/max timid Mewtwo 100% of the time. Lum Berry means Jirachi and Blissey can't stop me.

Garchomp (M) @ Haban Berry
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang

The star of the show! HabanChomp is a beast, stop using choiced Garchomps, this guy is amazing! In 7 out of every 10 matches, this pokemon will end up getting me out of a tight situation. I don't know what I would do without him on this team.

I've found that the best way to set this guy up is to bring him into a weakened Pokemon (such as a SpecsOgre with >25%) and kill them off with EQ. Your opponent will not see any Life Orb recoil or Leftovers recovery and assume that you are holding a choice item. They will then bring in something like Rayquaza and try to set up, expecting a switch, but they will get hit with a strong Outrage and be OHKO'd! At this point they are going to try and revenge kill you with something who can hit you super effectively. Garchomp is only weak to ice and dragon and ice moves are not very common in Ubers, so it is very likely that something like Scarf Palkia will come in with Spacial Rend. But unfortunetely for them, Haban Berry will save you and you will live to Outrage for another turn! This scenario has happened countless times and opponents often end up leaving the battle at this point ^_^.

 

[locopoke]

Threat List
Taken from twash's rmt

The Ubers

Darkrai: Lead Darkrai without Scarf are handled by Mewtwo easily. If they have Scarf then I'll do as much damage as possible with Aura Sphere then revenge kill with Scizor. Others are handled by Scizor as well.

Deoxys: Leads are handled by Mewtwo and Scizor. Activate their Sash with Shadow Ball then bring in Scizor to revenge with BP. I really don't see Deoxys that often though.

Deoxys-A: Most are leads, so Mewtwo will activate their sash w/ Shadow Ball and Scizor will revenge kill. Others are easily KO'd by Scizor's Bullet Punch.

Deoxys-D: I rarely see Deo-D but when I do see him I bring in Kyogre and start CMing, he can't really harm my team.

Deoxys-S: Mewtwo Shadow Balls twice. Not much else to say here.

Dialga: Leads are 2HKO'd by Aura Sphere, Scizor can switch into Scarfed Dragon Pulses and poison the switch-in. Kyogre can also attempt to set up on Scarfers and if nessecary Garchomp can come in and EQ.

Garchomp: Groudon walls this guy all day long. If nessecary Kyogre can take a hit and KO with Surf, or I can send in my own Garchomp and take a hit thanks to Haban and KO with Outrage.

Giratina: Kyogre can come in and set up on Giratina easily, if nessecary Garchomp can land a KO with Outrage or EQ if he's weak enough. Darkrai can also come in and sleep him if nessecary.

Giratina-O: Scizor can come in and break his subs over and over again with Bullet Punches while taking Dragon Pulses or Thunders and roosting off the damage (my bulky spread makes this possible). Garchomp can also come in and KO with Outrage, Haban lets him take one dragon hit unless Gira-O has +2 SpA or something. Darkrai can also come in and take care of him if he doesn't have a sub up.

Groudon: I can stop RP Don and other variations with my own Groudon as well as Kyogre. Buuuuuut, "double dance" Groudon can cause a lot of trouble if it gets +2 speed and +2 atk.

Ho-oh: Ho-oh is just another Pokemon that Kyogre can switch into and start setting up.

Kyogre: Kyogre can give me trouble. I can switch my own Ogre into Scarf variants and try to set up, CM ogre's can be slept by Darkrai. SpecsOgre gives me huge problems though, I usually have to maneuver around him one way or another, depends on the situation.

Latias: Scizor handles any Latias that doesn't have HP Fire. Darkrai also gets the job done.

Latios: Same as Latias pretty much.

Lugia: Scizor comes in and poisons him, Darkrai sleeps him and sets up.

Manaphy: I haven't actually faced a Manaphy with this team but I don't really see any easy way of beating it. Darkrai can sleep it if sun is up, but in rain it can give me a lot of trouble.

Mew: Like Manaphy, haven't faced many of these. They will try to Baton Pass so I just bring in anybody who can do damage.

Mewtwo: Very versatile.. very annoying. God, LO Mewtwo gives my team a shitload of trouble. Stall Mewtwo can give me a run for my money as well, but once I figure out that it's defensive I will bring in Darkrai, sleep it and begin to set up.

Palkia: Scizor switches into Scarf Spacial Rends, Kyogre switches into Surfs and sets up. Anything not scarfed is handled by Darkrai. Sub can be sort of annoying but Kyogre uses it to set up.

Rayquaza: Groudon handles SD and DD Ray easily (read his description for more information) and Scizor can poison / Bullet Punch those that do not have a fire move.

Shaymin-S: Leads do not win against Mewtwo unless they flinch me 5 times in a row which is very unlikely. I use Scizor to beat SubSeed variants with the help of his bulky ev spread.

Wobbuffet: Scizor and Darkrai I guess?

The Non-Ubers

Blissey: Darkrai sleeps it and attempts to set up. Kyogre comes in, sets up and sweeps.

Forretress: Mewtwo OHKOs leads with Flamethrower, Darkrai sleeps them, Kyogre uses them to set up. Not a problem.

Lucario: Groudon survives a +2 Life Orb Close Combat and OHKOes with Earthquake.

Ludicolo: Kyogre sets up.

Metagross: Groudon and Kyogre both handle him fairly easily.

Ninjask: Scizor breaks the subs and KOs with Bullet Punch I guess. As long as Ninjask only passes speed then I'm fine.

Scizor: Kyogre sets up on it and Groudon doesn't take much damage from any of its attacks.

Skarmory: Kyogre KOs in rain with 1 calm mind boost (i think). Garchomp can SD and deal 67% max with Fire Fang in Sunlight and Darkrai can sleep him and set up.

Tyranitar: Groudon OHKOs with EQ and Scizor bullet punches. I can also bring ogre in and try to set up.

 

[Witnessed]

Hey Locopoke, nice team! That Mewtwo lead set looks nearly identical to the one I posted in the new and creative moveset thread over in Stark.

This team looks very good, but I question the reason why you are using Groudon and Kyogre on the same team. I think a much better Stealth Rocker for your team could be Forretress. Although it is becoming a pretty common Mon on Uber teams today, it is very effective. Here is the set I recommend you use.

Forretress@ Leftovers
Sturdy
Careful
252 HP/252 Sp. Defense/4 Defense or Attack

Stealth Rock
Rapid Spin
Toxic Spikes
Payback

There you go! I would recommend him over Scizor's position(obviously). Stealth Rock, Toxic Spikes, and Rapid Spin don't need explanations, while Payback helps you do some damage against the hordes of Psychic-types in Ubers.

Next, I think Groudon should be replaced. Any wall can do here, but I think Lugia will work the best here. It can phaze out sweepers like Swords Dance Rayquaza and stop it from completely wrecking your team.

Hope I helped, and Good Luck.

 

[locopoke]

This team looks very good, but I question the reason why you are using Groudon and Kyogre on the same team.

Why is having Groudon and Kyogre on the same team a bad thing? Please explain. Also, why should I replace Scizor and Groudon with Lugia and Forretress? What can Lugia do that Groudon cannot? And why is Forretress needed?

 

[Witnessed]

I never said having Groudon and Kyogre on the same team was a bad thing...I was asking you why you are using them both.

 

[august]

I never said having Groudon and Kyogre on the same team was a bad thing...I was asking you why you are using them both.

Having dual weather changers allows him to control the game against teams that are based around just 1 weather changer and just pokemon such as Kingdra in rain to abuse the weather.

Anyway loco you seem pretty solid. Only thing I can suggest is running a little speed on Ogre to outspeed max spe Adamant Tar just incase, it is very minimal investmen and will not cause you to lose much Def at all.

 

[locopoke]

I never said having Groudon and Kyogre on the same team was a bad thing...I was asking you why you are using them both.

Well Groudon is a defensive beast and he manages to stop both SD and DD Ray in their tracks which not a lot of Pokemon can do. He also manages to set up rocks and stop Lucario (something Lugia cannot do so well). I use Kyogre so that I have a surefire why of always winning against stall. Unless I play like a total moron, there's really no way I'm going to lose against a stall team. Just set her up and I'm good to go. I really explained all of this in the rmt though so maybe you should try reading it instead of replying so quickly....

If you do reccomend Forretress, why are you suggesting Toxic Spikes over Spikes? If I were to use Forretress I would definetely make sure I had Spikes, most teams have more than 3 Pokemon that are immune to toxic spikes so they won't nessecarily help me very much. Again, why are you suggesting I take out Scizor and Groudon for Lugia and Forretress? What can Lugia do that Groudon can't? ..


Edit: yeah I dont exactly know why I used max/max on Kyogre, ill change it when i get a chance.

 

[New World Order]

This team has very few flaws, and even those flaws are minor. Something you could try is running crunch on garchomp over fire fang to hit deoxys/ mewtwo LO ice beam version switch ins, it can also be used to hit weakened giras. Fire Fang is really only used for 2 pokemon, forry and skarmory, and neither can pose any threat whatsoever to your team.

 

[Fireburn]

Hiya loco. This is a nice, well built team.

First thing I noticed is that Specsogre, or rather any Kyogre, gives you fits as you don't have anyone good to switch into it. To remedy this, I would make Groudon your lead and switch your Mewtwo to a Scarf Palkia:

Palkia @ Choice Scarf
Pressure
Timid Nature
EVs: 6 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
-Surf / Thunder
-Spacial Rend
-Fire Blast
-Draco Meteor

This gives you a nice check to Kyogre, as it is a great switch in to most sets, and it also gives you a nice general purpose Mewtwo check, as you outspeed it and do severe damage with Draco Meteor.

That's all I really see. Nice job.

 

[Witnessed]

Toxic Spikes are generally better in Ubers because there are more Pokemon affected by it,whereas in OU I think only half of the Pokemon there are affected. You said that if Groudon goes down, Rayquaza sweeps your team easily. With Forretress and Lugia, you have two reliable ways of walling Rayquaza instead of one.

 

[Aprovleptos]

Wow!I have been using the same team (of course I have slightly different movesets and wobba over Darkrai) for two months now and I understand it's awesomeness from first hand.

Haban SD chomp is a beast because it can set up on many situations.I would recommend though replacing Fire Fang for Stone Edge.Fire Fang becomes useless in the rain and its base power is poor.Stone Edge has more power and can easily OHKO Lugia (common switch in to Garchomp) after a swords dance (assuming rocks are on the field) and has a good chance to launche a ctritical hit!

On Scizor you could also use this set:

Scizor@Choice Band)
Nature:Adamant
EVs:200 HP / 56 Atk / 252 SpD
Bullet Punch/U-Turn/Superpower/Toxic

I agree that your Scizor has more bulk than any other Scizor set but it lacks a lot of power.This set can take special hits better than your current one and has the power to OHKO the Lati twins,Mewtwo and Darkrai with U-Turn.Scizor also can serve as a last resort poke to take out rayquaza as it is capable of 2HKO him with bullet punch.Super power is for Blissey and Dialga.Toxic over pursuit as pursuit does nothing (even if you predict a switch it is better to use U-Turn in order to get again the upper hand).Toxic also can dent Lugia.

The only drewback of this set is that you are locked in one move.

The rest of your team looks good.

Hope I helped.Good luck!

 

[mc2094]

Toxic Spikes are generally better in Ubers because there are more Pokemon affected by it,whereas in OU I think only half of the Pokemon there are affected. You said that if Groudon goes down, Rayquaza sweeps your team easily. With Forretress and Lugia, you have two reliable ways of walling Rayquaza instead of one.

Spikes is still better as it deals immediate damage to things like Scizor and Metagross while still affecting those that T Spikes are hit by. You're ignoring that by removing Groudon and Scizor he is opening himself up to other threats. He can still counter Rayquaza with Groudon so the extra help isn't really needed. Most have Life Orb anyways so even if Groudon isn't able to stop Ray he can always use Scizor to revenge with Bullet Punch or even poison with Toxic.

The team seems pretty good to me. I'm going to have to try that Haban Chomp out sometime.

EDIT: Using Toxic on a Choice Band set isn't good. It pretty much lets Lucario and steels get free set up. Pursuit is far better as it lets you get rid of Lati@s right away if you feel they can cause trouble. Toxic is going to be causing you to lose far more momentum then Pursuit. Personally though, I would stick with the current Scizor set. The one he's using doesn't need much power, it's simply meant to take hits and heal off damage while scouting and letting things like Chomp switch in with less trouble.