Sub 3 Attacks Cobalion

Lovelace

Lovelace

Overview
  • Cobalion has a fantastic typing and good bulk allowing it to wall many threats.
  • This typing is both unique and complementary to many common UU pokes such as Slowbro, making it easy to fit on a team.
  • Strong Fighting STAB and passable offenses make Cobalion a threatening attacker.
  • A high speed allows Cobalion to revenge kill most unboosted sweepers.
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Name: Sub 3 Attacks
Move 1: Substitute
Move 2: Close Combat
Move 3: Stone Edge
Move 4: Hidden Power Ice
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Justified
Nature: Jolly/Naive
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpAtk

[SET COMMENTS]
  • Substitute allows Cobalion to beat sub seeders and bulky ghosts by blocking their status.
  • Substitute eases prediction, allowing Cobalion to reliably punish offensive switches like Crobat and Chandelure.
  • Many common Pokemon such as Umbreon are forced out, giving Cobalion many chances to sub up.
  • Leftovers give Cobalion some longevity, allowing it to better perform the role of bulky pivot.
  • The given attacks make Cobalion a great utility mon for sniping key targets like Umbreon and Gligar.
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • The goal of this set is not to sweep but to provide a reliable and easy to use counter to a wide portion of the metagame, Substitute playing a role by both expanding the things Cobalion checks but also easing prediction, allowing it to more consistently take advantage of opportunities.
  • Jolly is preferred as to preserve SpDef for taking Leaf Storms and Shadow Balls. Still 2HKOs Gligar.
  • Slowbro is a great partner, taking the fire, fighting, and psychic attacks for Cobalion while Cobalion takes the dark, ghost, grass, and bug attacks aimed at Slowbro.
  • Due to Cobalions weak offensive presence, a strong special attacker like Shaymin is require for breaking down physical walls.
  • Pokemon like Shaymin also benefit from Cobalion being a good switch in to premiere special walls such as Umbreon and Snorlax
  • Fighting Pokemon like Mienshao benefit as Cobalion is easily able to draw in common counters such as Crobat or Gligar and eliminate them.
 
Hey, interesting set. The issue I see is that Cobalion doesn't have the firepower to pull of such a set. Below are a few calcs:

    • 0 SpAtk Cobalion (-SpAtk) Hidden Power Ice vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Eviolite Gligar: 46.71% - 56.29% (2-3 hits to KO)
    • 252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs 252 HP/0 Def Umbreon: 71.57% - 84.26% (2 hits to KO)
    • 252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs 252 HP/0 Def Snorlax: 82.82% - 97.71% (2 hits to KO)
    • 252 Atk Cobalion Stone Edge vs 252 HP/0 Def Zapdos: 50.52% - 59.9% (2-3 hits to KO)
    • 0 SpAtk Cobalion Hidden Power Ice vs 100 HP/0 SpDef Nidoqueen (-SpDef) : 34.1% - 40.46% (3 hits to KO)
    • 252 Atk Cobalion Stone Edge vs 0 HP/0 Def Heracross: 35.88% - 42.52% (3 hits to KO)
Click to expand...
  • You can't even secure a 2hko on Gligar if you are using a Jolly nature which imo shouldn't be used; as Cobalion already has poor SpDef you might as well utilize this and run a Naive nature. which is pretty bad.
  • No set-up move means you won't be breaking stall teams anytime soon as a CC or Non-STAB Stone Edge coming from a non attacking natured Cobalion wont be doing much in all honesty.

Substitute allows Cobalion to beat sub seeders and bulky ghosts by blocking their status.
Click to expand...

The only Pokemon who might use Leech Seed on a Cobalion would be Shaymin and even then you can't do much in return while it will break your substitute with relative ease.

Many common Pokemon such as Umbreon are forced out, giving Cobalion many chances to sub up.
Click to expand...

Even if you are forcing switches; when the opponent brings in their counter/check to your Cobalion and you are behind a sub; you can perhaps get off some damage which will most likely not ohko the opposing Pokemon.

This set is just walled by too many Pokemon: Blastoise, Slowbro, Swampert, Suicune, Roserade, Sabeleye, Cofagrigus, Spiritomb, Mismagius, Heracross amongst many more Pokemon. The fact that you are just laying there behind a sub can mean you are set-up bait for quite a few Pokemon also.

In addition to the aforementioned, you might want to mention that this set is absolutely walled by Ghost types and perhaps using a Pursuit Pokemon could help.

You can also mention that Zapdos is a good partner, they have good synergy and it can nail bulky Water-types whilst baiting in Snorlax and Umbreon.

Overall interesting set (and I don't want to sound mean or anything) but I don't see how it can function in all honesty.
 
Well first of all thanks for the reply, you brought up a lot of really great points.

First of all though I'd like to clarify that this set is not meant to be a wall breaker or sweeper like the SD set- it's meant to take advantage of Cobalion's great defensive typing as a strong defensive pivot against offensive teams.

It's true that it is heavily walled by certain Pokemon such as Slowbro but many of the Pokemon on your list don't appreciate taking a fully invested Close Combat, many taking a cool 35%. Swampert and Blastoise definitely don't appreciate taking it with their lack of recovery. Lots of the other Pokemon on that list get walled by Cobalion as well- Roserades lacking HP Fire can only spam Leaf Storm until that no longer breaks subs as Sludge Bomb does nothing and Sub blocks Sleep Powder. Most Spiritomb and Cofagrigus can do nothing and you can chip at them a bit with Stone Edge until you're ready to switch to a counter. Heracross doesn't like taking a hit and you can see what it move it locks itself into.

Maybe this is just a case of someone falling in love with their pet set but I swear that Cobalion is MVP in so many matches I play. So many times this equestrian will get 4-5 kills as well as continually taking hits from big threats like Snorlax and Roserade. I will try to collect some replays.
 
Hi there, I have a few tips that might help (I have playtested it):
  • First of all, you don't need the Overview tag as this is just one set, instead make it "Why this set deserves to be on-site"
  • Naive should be the only nature of choice, as the SpD drop doesn't do anything (sorry if I'm mistaken, but I've calced up a bunch of special hits, and they don't change the durability of the Subs at all). Furthermore, without Naive, you can't secure a 2HKO on Gligar and you have a lower (MUCH lower) chance of OHKOing Flygon
  • You need to mention that Cobalion is meant to be a defensive pivot for offensive teams
  • Mention that Cobalion has ample of opportunities to switch in and set up thanks to its wonderful typing
  • The Lefties point should be AC, not SC because it's explaining the item choice
  • You need to explain the moves more specifically (CC is a great STAB that rids the field of Pokemon such as Umbreon; Stone Edge deeats Crobat and Chandelure; Hidden Power Ice OHKOes Flygon after SR while also attaining a solid 2HKO on Gligar <-- use something along those lines)
  • The first point in AC should be SC as it describes what the set does
  • Remove the Jolly mention, like I said, it doesn't do anything (again, correct me if I'm wrong because I might have something)
  • Also take a look at this guide before writing this up (should it get approved)
That's all I go for now, might think of more stuff later.

Also, because I'm not QC, you don't have to implement all (if any) or my suggestions,
 
I playtested the set for a bit, but I couldn't decide if it was worth using or not. On the one hand, A Cobalion behind a sub is capable of putting the smack down against certains teams, especially lategame. On the other hand, Cobalion was really, really weak (weak enough to the point where a healthy Crobat can actually beat you, 1 v 1). I ended up using Expert Belt towards the end, and that was a bit better (you can now destroy crobat 1 v 1) but it's damage still wasn't "great." My other issue with this set is that Cobalion is really fast as is, so the Substitute only protects you against a few Pokemon in the >108 Speed tier and Choice Scarf users.

So overall, it's really cool against frailish offensive teams, but not so hot against balance or stall teams.

Would anyone else like to weigh in?
 
I honestly think this set is pretty interesting and all but I just can't see it having its own set in all honesty. If we look at the accomplishments this thing can do with this set:

-Substitute on status inflicted by walls which is cool and all.
-Lure in Gligar and get a 2hko most of the time.
-Lategame, it can perhaps sweep vs offensive teams but there are many more Pokemon who can filll that role better (this isn't justification enough to reject this set though).

However alot of mons can just phaze it out/ set up entry hazards on it/you even have Pokemon such as Suicune, Cofagrigus Slowbro, who can stall this thing out with ease and the former 2 set up on it (CROCUNE).

Hidden Power Ice hits virtually nothing significantly hard bar Gligar who isnt guaranteed the 2hko if there isn't rocks present.

Sure Expert Belt hits hard but you now lack recovery and lose longevity. Life Orb in some way makes up for its subpar offense however it is just a ticking bomb now.

If anything, substitute + sd +2 attacks would be alot more reliable and efficient. HP Ice just doesn't seem worthy enough for such a Pokemon with poor Special Attack, not to mention you are only using it for about 2-3 pokemon (Flygon who you already hit hard with your STAB, Gligar and Crobat).

(QC REJECTED 1/3)

 
Yea, PK and Somalia were spot-on with the problems with this set.

QC REJECTED 3/3

However, if you want to you can try to get SubSD onsite, I've seen it in action and while it'll obviously struggle with a couple of things, it's actually not bad at all.
 
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