Sun It Rises - first ou team

cosmicfinch

This is my first attempt at making a team for the smogon server. I just came from wifi 3 on 3 battles, and learning 6 on 6 I must say is a completely different world. So after lots of losing, I thought I would have some fun and make myself a sun team. This team is by no means perfect and has just cracked the top 500. Im hoping to make it much better though!


Ninetales (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 148 SAtk / 108 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Energy Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flamethrower
- Dark Pulse

This is not usually my lead pokemon, but the anchor of my sun team. He is designed to be the fastest of the weather users(I'm aware this loses the lead weather battle, but it also helps me kill the teams other weather lead, which is the best way to win the weather battle :D) The evs are designed to give me enough speed to outspeed max speed Poli, and hopefully ohko with a choiced energy ball. Also to hopefully survive a hit from t-tar, and 2hko him. For those confused about Darkpulse, I added it to counter a new common lead which is magic bounce espeon.

(Venusaur) (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 196 HP / 132 SAtk / 180 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Growth
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sleep Powder
I typically save this guy for the end game, unless some pesky water poke is giving me a headache. I'm considering dropping him for a different Chlorophyll poke, but have yet to make any decisions, as poison typing is rarely useful, and makes for a weak stab. Now trying out HP Fire over Ice.


MichealVicktini (Victini) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- V-create
- SolarBeam
- Fusion Bolt

I love this guy. I don't really use anything other than V-Create. With it's stab and sun support, it can often ohko a weak poke that resists it, that move is just plain ridiculous. With choice scarf I can pretty much sweep an unprepared team with 0 boosts.


36-DD (Dragonite) (F) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 232 HP / 12 Atk / 64 SDef / 200 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Dragon Claw
This guy sits around and waits. Basically the idea is, after a rapid spin, I bring him in, dragon dance on a resisted move, watch them switch, dragon dance again, and sweep.
The moves are basic. The only choice was dragon claw vs outrage, I hate outrages 2-3 move life span. If I get set up the last thing I want is to get confused. Dragon claw does the job just fine. I chose a lum berry as ppl usually come in and thunderwave or burn me, this allows me to destroy them immediately after.

Weavile (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Ice Punch
- Night Slash
- Ice Shard
- Fake Out

Trying this out as a replacement for Scizor. No comments on it from me yet, as I have never tried it out, but I do like having 2 priority moves on one poke :)

PartyheartY (Forretress) (F) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock

My favorite lead in the world. 9 times out of 10, I get stealth up, toxic spikes, and sometimes a layer or two of spikes. If a team doesn't have a rapid spinner, this ends the game. If they set up like crazy, i'll sacrifice Ninetales, and bring out Venusaur, if that doesn't work a bullet punch usually ends there sweep dreams. They than have to deal with over half their life gone off of each switch, and dragonite can handle that with ease.
If they do, typically tentacruel or other forretress havent seen starmie around for awhile now, I pull out after stealth rock and bring in dragonite, ohko earthquake or fire punch. Im not sure how ill go about with starmie, but have yet to run into that. Im shocked by the lack of teams with rapid spin.

Problem pokes so far.

Balloon Heatran with substitute.
Surf Latios.
Landorus has been an issue as well.

Looking forward to hearing any suggestions.
 
Why give Foretress a Sash when it has Sturdy? o_o Also, a Flash Fire user on your team is a need, try adding Heatran in there.

Solarbeam on Victini isn't that good of a move, why not Zen Headbutt for STAB or Brick Break for some coverage?

Venasaur without Sleep Powder? I think you might want to add it, since victini`s Victory Star makes it so it wont miss that often.
 
cosmicfinch said:
(Venusaur) (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 196 HP / 132 SAtk / 180 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Growth
- Energy Ball
- Sleep Powder
- Hidden Power Fire
I typically save this guy for the end game, unless some pesky water poke is giving me a headache. I'm considering dropping him for a different Chlorophyll poke, but have yet to make any decisions, as poison typing is rarely useful, and makes for a weak stab. HP ice is for my huge issue with gliscor. I love that pokemon. Just hate fighting it. After a Growth boost, you should be able to KO Gliscor with Energy Ball. Also, Sludge Bomb has mediocre coverage.

MichealVicktini (Victini) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- V-create
- Zen Headbutt
- Fusion Bolt

I love this guy. I don't really use anything other than V-Create. With it's stab and sun support, it can often ohko a weak poke that resists it, that move is just plain ridiculous. With choice scarf I can pretty much sweep an unprepared team with 0 boosts. Solarbeam is useless and terrible if something like Politoed comes in while you use it, so don't use it.

PartyheartY (Forretress) (F) @ Leftovers / Shed Shell
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock

My favorite lead in the world. 9 times out of 10, I get stealth up, toxic spikes, and sometimes a layer or two of spikes. If a team doesn't have a rapid spinner, this ends the game. If they set up like crazy, i'll sacrifice Ninetales, and bring out Venusaur, if that doesn't work a bullet punch usually ends there sweep dreams. They than have to deal with over half their life gone off of each switch, and dragonite can handle that with ease.
If they do, typically tentacruel or other forretress havent seen starmie around for awhile now, I pull out after stealth rock and bring in dragonite, ohko earthquake or fire punch. Im not sure how ill go about with starmie, but have yet to run into that. Im shocked by the lack of teams with rapid spin. First of all, Toxic Spikes have little use to an offensive team, and Volt Switch's utility is impossible to ignore. Secondly, Overcoat does nothing against Fire moves and only prevents a Forretress from taking damage from Hail. Sturdy is always the best option.
Click to expand...
Changes/advice in bold. Dragonite is swell, and Ninetails seems to work for you so stick with it.

I suggest removing Scizor, as it really does nothing special for the team, and replacing it with a Weavile. Weavile can help against the problem Pokemon you mentioned while also being useful in other areas. An ideal set would look something like this:

Weavile @ Focus Sash / Life Orb
Jolly nature
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
-Fake Out / Swords Dance
-Ice Punch
-Night Slash / Low Kick
-Ice Shard / Night Slash / Low Kick

Fake Out basically ensures a free hit, although Swords Dance is an option if you'd rather boost. Ice Punch stops Dragons in their tracks (especially if you pair it with Ice Shard). Night Slash allows you to beat down Espeon, Alakazam and Reuniclus, while Low Kick rips Tyranitar in half (even ChopleTar takes a hefty chunk of damage).

Another viable Pokemon, should you choose to run it, is Volcarona, who is an absolute monster in the sun. However, I can't really recommend it, seeing as I've never personally used it.
 
Thanks for the advice guys!
I thought I was running adamant on victini :( Huge oversight on my part!
That Weavile sounds like a great fit, and definitely fills some voids. I was thinking of running a Suicune instead of Scizor, but this Weavile sounds a lot nicer!
Im definitely getting rid of sludge bomb altogether on Venusaur, and thinking of swapping for a Victreebel or maybe a lilligant with quiver dance. Breloom is a possibility as well.

I've tried out Volcarona, and after experimenting I found this Victini set is vastly superior for this team. Solarbeam I just through in there for coverage reasons. Ill try out the stab zen headbutt and see how it does.

Overcoat was thrown in there after getting k'od by sandstream on a lead t-tar. I found leftovers didn't seem very useful and shed bell is something I didn't think of, but I'll give leftovers a go. Toxic Spikes I have been loving, as so many teams are unprepared for it.
If you didn't notice i'm trying to avoid a hit and run strategy with this team. The idea is, be there get as strong as possible, and damage as much as you can till you die.
 
I'd suggest Scarfed Darmanitan over Victini. Darmanitan has a 140 Base Attack compared to Victini's base 100, and hits harder overall as a result. Also, unlike Victini, Darmanitan's STAB attack doesn't make it complete Pursuit fodder. I've tried to run Victini on my own sun team, but even with V-Create, I've never had as much success with it as I've had with Darmy.

On an unrelated note, some images would be nice.
 
Ok. So im trying out Weavile. It looks like a great fit. And it has some yellow on it(shiny) to go with my teams all yellow look! Which is great.
Never used Darmanitan, but ill give her a go and see.
No clue how to add images :( Perhaps ill look into it and see though.
After trying out Weavile, I just won 3 in a row, and definitely 2 I wouldn't have won without him. Thanks for that one.
Will work on adding some pics.
 
Go the the picture then right click on it and copy picture url. Then put in:
.

Might edit this later for a mini rate, tired

I agree with other posters, you really are weak to fire, and if they bring a scarfed hydregion you might kill your team goodbye

Ninetales: I guess its okay, but a substitute set might work better coupled with leftovers. IF YOU DO KEEP SPECS, be SURE to put in hp fighting> dark pulse, as i changed one of your pokemon for a dark type. This deals with BALLOON HEATRAN, tyranitar

Venasaur: Timid with hp ice, solarbeam, growth and sleep powder. You can take down gliscor that your team might be troubled with, and coupled with sleep powder get +6 in a heartbeat Also go 252 Spe 252 SpA 4 HP

Houndoom@ Choice scarf
Hasty (+ SpE - Def)
Flash Fire
238 SpE 36 Atk 236 SpA
Fire blast
Pursuit
Dark pulse
Hp Grass
I find houndoom better then darmanitan and much suited for this team since it is faster, bulkier, and has flash fire. He takes apart ferrothorn, choice banders who need to switch, and gastrodon who almost fucks this team.

Dnite: If your going for lum berry sweeper, i would choose haxorus> dnite. It hits metagross hard, and has more coverage moves. Try 252 Atk, 30 Hp and 220 SpE. Ddance, earthquake, brick break(for heavy offense screeners), and outrage.

Weavile is fine, standard set

Why does fortress have sash? Put leftovers on him and sturdy so you can guarantee at least 1 layer of spikes or rocks. Also go volt switch> toxic spikes since you really dont need poison on more of an offense oriented team. I dont like both hazards AND rapid spin on 1 pokemon, but its okay. Switch its ev's to max hp max SpD, its better for latios and hydregion.

If i missed anything please let me know, or i will look another time and noticed something
 
wow thanks for all that info!
I'll see how things look with houndoom. He is one of my fave pokes so if I can find a spot for him that would be cool.
Since I added weavile, this team has won 5 in a row. So im gonna see how long the streak can go :)
 
Cool team man!

So the first thing I see is four Rock weak pokemon on a Sun Team. Tyranitar is probably the biggest threat to any Sun team and you have four pokemon weak to it's STABs. Venusaur isn't the bulkiest 'mon so he won't be able to switch in many times, and what is Forretress gunna do to Tyranitar?

So the thing thing I'd recommend is replacing Forretress for Hitmontop. The set I suggest is:

Hitmontop (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Rapid Spin
- Foresight
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch / Stone Edge

This gives you a very solid switch-in to Tyranitar(also Terrakion) and still spins away those Rocks your team loathes. Hitmontop also helps you against another threat, Lucario. A +2 LO Lucario with Ice Punch runs through your whole team after setting up on either Forretress or Weavile. Hitmontop can Intimidate, survive any hit and then revenge kill with Close Combat.

Now with this change you have lost your Dragon resist and your hazard layer. So the first thing I would recommend is changing Weavile back for Scizor. The set I recommend is:

Scizor (F) @ Iron Plate
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Atk / 160 SDef
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SAtk)
Moveset:
- Swords Dance
- U-Turn
- Bullet Punch
- Roost

This is Mostwanted's Scizor, it's job is to Spam U-turn early game and bluff a Band; only to set-up late game and sweep. So first off this guy gives you a great switch in to a ton of Dragon-type attacks, and he even has reliable recovery. Not only that but Scizor can be an excellent revenge killer for such 'mons as Rock Polish Terrakion. Scizor can even pull off easy sweeps late game with Swords Dance.

So now you need Hazards, but your team is very offensive so I think an Offensive Rock layer will be very beneficial. I suggest running Mamoswine over Victini. The set I suggest is:

Mamoswine (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Endeavor
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake

So this Mamoswine can be a perfect lead for you, taking on troublesome Tyranitars and Rotoms. With Focus Sash Mamoswine is almost always guaranteed to get up Rocks. Or if a troublesome enemy shows its face, you can Endeavor as it brings you to your Sash then Ice Shard them to death. This guy can even be saved for later(as long as you spin) to help check any run-away threats late game.

While you lost your Victini in the change, I believe this will only make you stronger. Victini seemed to be exasperating a lot of you weaknesses and not bringing a whole lot to the table.

Hope you'll try these changes, Good Luck!
 
I think the other raters have most things covered, but I advise having Low Kick on Weavile instead of Fake Out because this grants it perfect coverage and OHKOs Tyranitar, which could pose a problem. Also, another spinner that sets up Rocks that you could test is Donphan:

Donphan @Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP 40 Atk 216 Def
Adamant nature
Earthquake
Ice Shard
Stealth Rock
Rapid Spin

Sun takes away its water weakness, and grass is covered by all your fire types. Earthquake for STAB, Ice Shard for priority. Rocks for hazards, Spin to get rid of them. It is also a good physical wall, and can stop opposing Terrakion which could otherwise tear up your team. Good luck!
 
Yea, I also second Donphan, since it provides your team with much needed Rock resist. Forretress really kills the offensive momentum you got in your team, since it offers no offense. Entry hazards are essential in offensive teams, but Forretress is merely a set-up bait, which is very dangerous for an offensive team like yours with little defense to fall back on. A bulky Deoxys-D can also work, but it doesn't help against Tyranitar, which Donphan also fares better.

I would suggest a more defensive set, however, so that it can truly take physical abuse for the team: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def; Relaxed Nature lets Donphan have a chance at surviving 2 CB Close Combat from Terrakion, as well as a Close Combat from a +2 LO Lucario. It would also come in handy when you combat against Landorus.

Donphan (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard / Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin

Ice Shard is really only good for finishing off Dragonite and Landorus, and I guess breaking Heatran's Air Balloon before fainting. Otherwise Stone Edge provides much better coverage. You can also try Head Smash, but the 50% recoil hampers its defensive capabilities

This team is heavily reliant on Sun, so Ninetales survival is paramount. Choice Specs really hinders Ninetales ability to supply Sun. I understand that you are attempting to make Ninetales offensively threatening, but Ninetales' naturally lackluster Special Attack combined with your EV spread do not help accomplish this. Even with Choice Specs, Ninetales barely 3HKOs Scarftar, which is the least defensive variants. Ninetales is ineffective with Choice Specs; it's not dishing hard damage, and it's only making you more vulnerable to Tyranitar and Heatran when you are locked into the wrong move.

You should really try out the standard Sunny Beam Ninetales. You can do more damage this way without locking Ninetales. With Sunny Day, you can waste Politoed or Tyranitar's effort to change the weather, by changing it right back to Sun (albeit for 5 turns). Not only does it revert the weather back to Drought mode, but it also weakens Politoed's offense and removes Tyranitar's special defense boost from Sandstorm. Thanks to Sunny Day, Ninetales can safely pull off a Solarbeam on these weather inducers, which has the power of a Choice Specs Energy Ball (even more against TTar, since it lacks the Sp Def boost). This set provides you a better chance in weather wars than your Specs set. With no Choice Specs, Ninetales can remove Heatran's Air Balloon with SolarBeam.

Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SAtk / 128 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- SolarBeam
- Sunny Day
- Will-o-Wisp / Roar / Safeguard

Enough Speed to outrun Adamant Haxorus; you may provide it more Speed if you find it necessary. The last slot is up to you. Will-o-Wisp is an annoying status, and provides your team an even bigger edge against Tyranitar and Hippowdon. Roar is good to prevent Dragon-types like Latias from setting up on Ninetales, while Safeguard is a nice support to the team, by protecting them from status. This set has a decent chance in scoring a 3HKO on standard TTar and 2HKO physically-defensive Politoed with SolarBeam, a feat that Choice Specs Ninetales set struggled to accomplish.

You may also want to try Fire Blast on Dragonite. Skarmory stops Weavile cold, and Dragonite can thus lure and take out Skarmory for Weavile. With your current EV spread, +1 Fire Punch only barely 2HKOs Skarmory, leaving it with a good 40% of its health after SR. Skarmory is left battered, but it can still switch in on Weavile and burn 20% of its health due to Life Orb recoil. With a Sun-boosted Fire Blast, Dragonite cleanly OHKOs Skarmory after SR, even with Adamant Nature, leaving a wide path open for Weavile to wreak havoc.

And yea, give Weavile Low Kick over Fake Out. With Low Kick, Weavile one-shots Air Balloon Heatran, Terrakion, and Tyranitar (without Chople), while doing ~40% to physically-defensive Ferrothorn. Your Weavile is essentially missing out on a Close Combat or Drain Punch, if we relate Low Kick's power to other moves.

It would probably help for your Venusaur to be invest more in Speed to outrun Scarf Landorus, who would otherwise revenge kill your Chloro Sweeper. Venusaur needs 249 Speed to accomplish this, which requires 216 Spe EVs.

I hope this helped. Happy holidays.
 
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