Sun team Bloody Sun team, first steps in XY OU

Sun team Bloody Sun team
Hey all, after lingering in the now depopulated fields of BW2 for way too long, I decided to make the jump to the modern era and build myself an XY OU team. Decided to run with the one Pokamon I immediately fell in love with back when the new faces of X and Y were slowly being revealed, Mega Charizard Y, and built upon that to come to this.
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By all means click below to see how this team came to be.
I desire to play offense, speedy offense. Creating a situation where I can strike hard and fast, with support that works towards that goal. Think hyper offense with dual screens, Thunder Wave, Baton Pass, the new Sticky Web, Tailwind, but also weather. Swift Swim, Chlorophyll and Sand Rush are easily my favorite abilities, yet relying on Politoed or Ninetales in your team, while it proved perfectly workable, is not ideal for one's offensive tendencies, and that is even ignoring the Drizzle+Swift Swim ban. Sand Rush is a different story. Tyranitar is capable of standing his own as an offensive Pokemon, but Sand Rush does have a worse distribution than Swift Swim and Chlorophyll. Furthermore Sand has less offensive qualities than Rain and Sun. Knowing this, the announcement of Mega Charizard Y, a Drought user with amazing offensive potential himself, was a blessing for the Swift Swim/Chlorophyll/Sand Rush lover I am.
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This bugger was always gonna be in this team. Maybe at this point I should point out that back when I decided to get all worked up about this one, the weather nerf was not yet announced. Ouch. And it would be impossible to use Mega Charizard Y with a Heat Rock. Ouch. Nevertheless, nothing was gonna stop me from trying out this thing besides a Chlorophyll user.
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For a whole generation of Drought being available in OU, Venusaur has proven to be the most successful Chlorophyll user of them all. Great Speed, a respectable 100 Special Attack. Also, with the weather nerf, I wanted something that has the mixed bulk to use Sunny Day itself in a pinch.

Considered alternatives: Any other Chlorophyll user really. Particularly ones that hit harder in the short time in the sunshine it is given. Exeggutor perhaps?
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Defog is one of the coolest things that happened to this generation. Not only will it not be spinblocked, it also gives me a good excuse to forego Stealth Rock myself! When I'm playing offensively putting down Stealth Rock is not what's on my mind. And with Charizard being so vulnerable to Stealth Rock and Chlorophyll Venusaur crippled by Sticky Web, hazards management is needed. Latios seems to be THE offensive Defog user, and even after the genesis of the Fairy-types a 130 Special Attack STAB Draco Meteor is so welcome.

Considered alternatives: Zapdos briefly, Crobat for a bit longer. Crobat can grab offensive momentum by U-Turn against a friggin' Substitute! But I couldn't ignore Latios's muscle.
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With the weather nerf, I saw 2 options. Go all-out with the sun-theme with the likes of Heat Rock Ninetales and several Pokemon that can abuse the sunshine, risking poor defensive synergy, or accept the fact I will run out of sunshine and go for a less sun-reliant lineup. I went with the latter, and decided to expand my Mega Charizard Y and Venusaur into a good old offensive F/W/G-core. A Dragon Dance Gyarados fits in perfectly with the fast yet bulky offense I have going so far, it adds physical muscle that this team missed so far, and what also proved very important, between Intimidate, Substitute and Leftovers, Gyarados is capable of switching in while Sunny Day is active, and stall for a few turns to not mind Waterfall's decreased power too much.
Considered alternatives: Azumarill, but I wanted a core that could attack at speed, for which Azumarill relies on Aqua Jet, which doesn't go on well with the sunshine. Crawdaunt, great typing, but Gyarados has more going for him. IF my Chlorophyll sweeper were a physical sweeper, I'd peak at them special Water sweepers as well, of which there are quite a lot.
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With 2 slots still open I decided to have a look at what types I lacked resistances to. Normal, Flying, Poison, Rock, Ghost, Ice, Dragon, Dark. In days gone by a Steel-type could cover all of those types, in the modern days the addition of a Dark-types is desirable to cover Dark- and Ghost-types attack. Ignoring types for a second, what I still wanted was a revenge killer and a wallbreaker, and some more physical muscle. After a quick look through my options I decided to take Choice Scarf Jirachi and mixed Hydreigon for a spin...

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After some testing I felt I needed to use the last 2 slots for Pokemon that could score KO's more easily. Aegislash has the right tools to break walls AND keep itself alive while doing so. Shadow Sneak means that even its low Speed can be overcome when needed. Pangoro became my rather experimental Choice Scarf user. Parting Shot grabs momentum, Iron Fist Sky Uppercut hurts like hell, but sadly I found Pangoro suffered from the increasingly popular Flying-type attacks that are now everywhere.
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There! Whilst I was actually growing a tad attached to Pangoro Tyranitar has taken over its Choice Scarf. Was reluctant to go dual weather at first (technically I could have used Tyranitar's hidden ability, I know) but given the sunshine was never gonna be infinite anyway bringing it to an end myself isn't as bad as it once was. And Sand Stream has proven its value by killing Focus Sash users and granting Tyranitar that monumental Special Defense. And of course Pursuit gives this team a trapping option it previously lacked.

Considered alternatives: Bisharp, because he on his own carries all the resistances I want need Aegislash and Tyranitar for, which would give me room for something fancy in slot 6 lol. Beyond that I looked into some other potential Dark revenge killers, among which Zoroark and Weavile.
By all means read below to see what each Pokemon does
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Charizard @ Charizardite Y

Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Focus Blast
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse
- SolarBeam

Started out with Roost/Fire Blast/Air Slash/SolarBeam because I'm an STAB whore who thought Roost was needed to keep my Drought user alive longer. Trying to use this beast to its full potential though I came to find that I was doing a lot of attacking, very little time healing, and too much time getting walled. Focus Blast is vital for hitting Heatran, Dragon Pulse great for a lot of Dragon-types, and Fire Blast and Solar Beam just provide raw power against everyone else in the sun. EV's and Nature let me outspeed a lot of opponents and pack massive power. Usually used as a lead to start a sunny onslaught straight away who can thanks to the immediate sunshine go toe-to-toe with a lot of Water-type leads. Drought provides great support for Venusaur and also to fuel Latios's Hidden Power Fire.

Considered alternatives: Air Slash over Dragon Pulse. Air Slash hits most Dragon-types decently hard and would provide a second STAB.
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Venusaur @ Black Sludge
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 180 Spd / 252 SAtk / 72 HP / 4 Def
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
- Sunny Day
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sleep Powder

BW2 has proven to me there is potential in Venusaur carrying his own Sunny Day, even when paired with the theoretically eternal sun of Ninetales. Paired with the much more limited sun of Mega Charizard Y, its usefulness only grows. It becomes an upgraded Agility for the duration of 5 turns which powers up its own Hidden Power Fire as well as Latios's, and even can give Charizard a reliable switch in against a predicted Water-type attack if for some reason he isn't Mega Charizard Y yet (like if he had a bad lead match-up and switched out right away). Giga Drain and Hidden Power Fire are the offensive attacks of choice for STAB and pseudo-STAB, Black Sludge and Sleep Powder underline the more supportive nature this Venusaur got over time, and Sleep is a great way to safely sneak in a Sunny Day.

Considered alternatives: Growth over Sunny Day has the potential to create a powerhouse, but not too keen because I would be outspeeding things less often. SolarBeam over Giga Drain for power. Sludge Bomb over Sleep Powder for STAB and bashing Fairy-types.
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Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Defog


Reliably gets rid of Stealth Rock and Sticky Web whilst nuking things left and right, what's not to like? The existence of Fairy-type lessens his nuking abilities. Them switching in can be predicted though, and between STAB Draco Meteor and Psyshock and if sunny pseudo-STAB Hidden Power Fire, all powered up by Life Orb, Latios has enough toys to hurt things.
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Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 168 Spd / 248 Atk / 88 HP / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce

Could have gone with Moxie and Dragon Dance + 3 direct attacks if I were greedy, and truer to my usual style, but this thing is a team player. Intimidate allows this thing to switch into so many things, and soften them either for itself or for one of its teammates. Combined with decent Speed (faster than Jolteon when +1), efficient Leftovers recovery with 88 HP EV's, and Substitute, Gyarados is capable of acting defensively, which adds to its supportive abilities, but also, makes it capable of sitting out 1 or 2 turns of the sunshine that weakens its Waterfall. Also all of this makes getting Dragon Dance in easier to turn Gyarados into a potent sweeper with Waterfall and Bounce.

Considered alternatives: Taunt over Substitute, Taunt users are always useful on an offensive team and it helps with sweeping in other ways than Substitute does (stops phazing, healing, protecting).
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Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Shadow Sneak
- Iron Head
- King's Shield

A wall and a wallbreaker in 1, who would have thought we'd ever come across something like that in OU. King's Shield, besides scouting, combines with Gyarados's Intimidate to greatly mess with many physical sweepers,Weakness Policy combines greatly with Aegislash's natural bulk and low speed to allow Aegislash to enhance its strength without using a moveslot or even a turn. The STAB-combo of Shadow Ball and Iron Head make for a great mixed sweeper, Shadow Sneak is there whenever Aegislash's low speed would otherwise prove troublesome.

Considered alternatives: Sacred Sword over Iron Head... this is the one detail in my entire team I am uncertain about the most. Sacred Sword gives better coverage AND would make getting rid of Chansey and Blissey much easier, but Iron Head, besides providing STAB, is currently the only move on my team that can hit pure Fairy-types super effectively.
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Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Pursuit
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Superpower

Revenge killer with huge bulk, and after Jolly and 252 Speed EV's a very very respectable Speed. Sand Stream proved to be less of a burden than I thought it would be on this sun team, it has allowed me to kill a fair share of Focus Sash users, and makes Tyranitar a great special tank, which combines greatly with Intimidate Gyarados who upon switching in acts as a physical tank. Also Intimidate Gyarados+Tyranitar prove great at repelling them nasty Flying type STAB's one finds everywhere. Pursuit traps things, mainly Latios and Latias who can wreck through my F/W/G-core with ease. Crunch and Stone Edge provides dual STAB that can hit hard any day of the week, Superpower hits a few Pokemon hard that resist its STAB combo, such as Lucario and Terrakion, while also being this team's best answer to Chansey and Blissey.


Perceived threats: Cosmic Power Clefable. Especially when Unaware, who ever thought that would be a good idea? I can't phaze it, the only residual damage I have are Tyranitar's 5 turns of Sandstorm, and to make matters worse he ignores my Gyarados's Dragon Dance!

Baton Pass. As I said, I currently lack phazing, although with King's Shield and Intimidate I hurt anyone trying to pass on Attack.

Mandibuzz. His Foul Play counters both Gyarados and Aegislash so well, it isn't funny, and my other Pokemon can only do so much against it sadly.

Chansey. She, more so than Blissey, can take on my physical attackers way too well. The main reason why I consider Sacred Sword over Iron Head on Aegislash.

Closing words: Thanks for reading what is my first RMT. Looking forward to reading, and trying out, suggestions. I will happily consider any suggestion that comes up, but I feel there are 3 elements on this team that I'd not easily change, which are, 1. Mega Charizard Y, 2. Chlorophyll and 3. Defog. Beyond that, every idea is highly appreciated.
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Focus Blast
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse
- SolarBeam

Venusaur @ Black Sludge
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 180 Spd / 252 SAtk / 72 HP / 4 Def
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
- Sunny Day
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sleep Powder

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Defog

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 168 Spd / 248 Atk / 88 HP / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce

Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Shadow Sneak
- Iron Head
- King's Shield

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Pursuit
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Superpower

 
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I would recommend you to at least get one SR user. This is probably very common advice but hazards can be very situational and game-changing sometimes, and as some people say, Stealth Rocks are possibly the best move in the game.
I'm thinking about it on Tyranitar. Even though Blisseys etc and Chanseys are common, they can be dealt with easily with Gyarados. Just put up a sub, they can't touch you with status! They will probably be forced to seismic you. You can set up a DD safely behind the sub. Also, if you bring out Gyarados early on and set up, you can instakill the Blisseys + Chanseys with ease. Lucario might seem like a problem but don't worry, because not a lot of people use it anymore considering Lucarionite was officially banished to Ubers. Terrakion isn't very common as well, but I wouldn't recommend keeping Tyranitar in to Superpower a Terrakion anyway because it can easily 0HKO with a 4x Supereffective STAB CC. Watch out for that. Also, if you do run into the Scarf Terrakion (which seems to be the most common set considering it's respectable speed makes it one of the fastest revenge killers) then perhaps bait it with Tyranitar so it can CC or something, and go into Gyarados, as you said the Intimidate cripples Physical Attackers and the Flying Type resists the CC. Then you can set up a Dragon Dance or two, and if you manage two you can outspeed Terrakion when it next comes in trying to Stone Edge/Rock Slide you.

Also, if you want Tyranitar to be decent, I would recommend a Dragon Dance set since it can also be very threatening. But your current set is good, however I wouldn't prefer running Speed EVs over HP or bulk (Defense/SpD) because he's not too fast, but I guess if you have experience with it you can make it work. Just a suggestion.

Aegislash looks good, and yeah, he's amazing to be a wallbreaker + wall, considering he can also be mixed! If you have problems with Blissey/Chansey after you replace Superpower with SRs on T-tar (if you take my suggestion - it's not like you have to though! ;D) then maybe try considering Sacred Sword over Iron Head. It also gets those Defense setup Pokes like Scolipede to Baton Pass into others since it ignores their stat boosts (Sacred Sword that is). However, I like the STAB of Iron Head and the coverage against Fairies. Latios looks good and so does Charizard! Venusaur might not want to run that many Speed EVs since if you're scared it will get outsped then you always have Sunny Day on it to activate Chlorophyll. But maybe consider Synthesis over Sleep Powder or HP Fire (the sun boost is great and the status crippling too, but you can maybe try this out as well! See which works best!) because in sun it recovers 75% and makes Venusaur a great tank, not to mention he can't get Toxic'd since he's Poison type! But I would honestly not run a tanky Venusaur on a sun team, so your one seems good. The Synthesis is just an idea.

Nice team in General, hope I helped =]
 
I would run roost over dragon pulse on Char-y because of how valuable that recovery can be and it allows you to heal on some weaker scalds and things like Celebi. Heatran walls half your team to hell, so I would consider running earthquake over hidden power fire on Latios, as it allows it to scare two of latios' biggest checks, aegislash and heatran, and can weaken them a good deal even with only 4 ev's of investment. Also if chansey and blissey are a large problem, you could try out a choice band set on tyranitar.
 
Thanks guys! Reading interesting points here, lets see

Dazzles
- Stealth Rock, there is no denying how hugely useful that is on any sort of team, but always when I'm making an offensive team, and when Stealth Rock is not already on my designated suicide lead (I LOVE those), such "defensive" measures always end up on the bottom of my priority list. I will very much look into it.
Given I am new to the metagame... how do people generally experience using Defog in conjunction with your own Stealth Rock?
To try it out myself, I will put Stealth Rock on Tyranitar over Superpower.
- Dragon Dance Tyranitar, yes he is a beast, but between Mega Charizard Y, Dragon Dance Gyardos and Life Orb Latios, I feel I have beasts, and what I was looking for when I went with Tyranitar was a revenge killer. I feel I'd sooner replace Tyranitar for another revenge killer than take Tyranitar another route, although I'm holding all options open.
Similarly, I want the Speed EV's to have him be the best revenge killer he can be.
- Sacred Sword Aegislash, with Superpower lost on Tyranitar, I am totally gonna go with that suggestion.
- Venusaur, well I do want those Speed EV's to outspeed certain Choice Scarf users in the sun, although I feel silly now for not having the memo here on which I wrote down which :P. And I'll keep the suggested Synthesis in mind but making my Chlorophyll more tanky is not what I wanna do just yet, the recovery from Giga Drain and Black Sludge is proving to be good as it is whilst still allowing me to go on the offensive.

jg1198
- Roost Mega Charizard Y, that is what I started out with, and I wasn't satisfied. With SolarBeam, Fire Blast, Roost and a coverage move, I will always be utterly walled by something. By Heatran if I pick Dragon Pulse, by several Dragon-types (Dragonite, Salamence, Mega Charizard Y) if I pick Focus Blast. Of course being walled by something isn't the end of the world (heck, half of my team is walled by Heatran as you rightfully pulled out), but for me the choice between Roost and Dragon Pulse basically becomes a choice between longevity and being the best sweeper he can by whilst still alive, and the latter really proved more valuable.
- Earthquake Latios, indeed half of my team is walled by Heatran, the other half actually beats the crap out him. All of Mega Charizard Y, Gyarados and Tyranitar can switch into Heatran with relative ease and fight back with Focus Blast, Waterfall or Superpower. However since I'm gonna try Dazzles's suggestion of Stealth Rock over Superpower on Tyranitar, Earthquake Latios may just be what I need, and the surprise value seems priceless. I will give him a spin. Naive nature.
- Choice Band Tyranitar, as I said earllier I am reluctant to go that direction just now, especially since with the changes I'll have Sacred Sword Aegislash to tackle Chansey better.

tl; dr
Will be testing:
Tyranitar, Stealth Rock over Superpower
Aegislash, Sacred Sword over Iron Head
Latios, Earthquake over Hidden Power Fire
Naive over Timid
 
One thing, Change Venusaur's spread to 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP with a Modest nature because that spread is irrelevant since Scarf Latios is almost none existent and the extra power Modest brings is needed.
 
Hey, this is a pretty solid team that reminds me of Valentine's SPL team that was similarly successful.

One thing that definitely plagues this team is anti-weather offense. Fast physical attackers such as Terrakion or Mega Pinsir can quickly deal loads of damage to this team. You seem to rely a bit too much on Aegislash for your physically defensive bulk, especially since your other two physical Pokemon (Gyarados / Tyranitar) are weak to EdgeQuake. For this reason, I would give Aegislash leftovers. You definitely need it constantly ward of Stone Edges for your team, since nothing else can take them. Weakness Policy does not suit a Pokemon that is being forced into a defensive role most of the time. I might even go as far as a bulkier 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA Adamant spread, but that might be more situational, and you can test that out yourself.


I also kind of disagree with the Stealth Rock suggestion. Tyranitar needs all of its moves and Stealth Rock really slows this team down. You have relatively few problems handling most Stealth Rock weak Pokemon since Tyranitar beats them, and your reliance on Latios's Defog in order to cover for Char / Gyara's weaknesses will clash. The last thing you need is your Flying-type check locked into a vulnerable and harmless move, ready for things like Mega Pinsir to come in, set up against, and stomp on.


This is nitpicky but you could also possibly try Ice Fang on Gyarados to hit Dragons that look pretty annoying. Garchomp in particular could really piss you off since it walls everything it can't kill and can easily outlive Latios, your main (and really only) check. Ice Fang would mean you'd have to play more carefully with Gyara, but I don't think that'll be too much of a burden.

OR

You could try a more offensive Venusaur. I was thinking of Hidden Power Ice over HP Fire and to give you extra leverage over Dragon-types and Flying-types. Hidden Power Ice lets you check Mandibuzz, Garchomp, Landorus, and Thundurus-I while still being able to hit Mega Pinsir super effectively. Hidden Power Fire seems way less necessary since Latios and Mega Char Y already have coverage in Fire. Along with this, I suggest that you use Life Orb on Venusaur just to get an extra oomph on Giga Drain and power up HP Ice to match damage vs Mega Pinsir and increase damage vs Thundurus. Life Orb seems really necessary since it's in your best interest to hit as hard as possible and remove bulky Water-types, Flying-types, and Dragon-types as quickly as possible.


Aside from that, the team looks pretty solid. Nice job! :)
 
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