Sun Team with refinement

[ElevenTwoTwo]

A Sun Team with Refinement​

A few months ago I posted a mediocre-ass sun team here to be rated. This team is a refinement of that arrangement, with many move changes and some pokémon changes as well. It has worked better than previously but still could use some improvement, so any feedback would be appreciated.

Elmer (Mamoswine) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Stealth Rock
- Icicle Crash

Elmer: revenge killer, special wall breaker(ish) and support poké. Often comes to the aid of my team, staying strong in adverse weather conditions (sandstorm and hail) and even sometimes getting a few KO's along the way (screw you, Jirachi). To hit first, Shard, Earthquake to hit hard. Rocks to annoy and Crash to smash.

McCloud (Ninetales) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Fire Blast
- Toxic
- Sunny Day
- Protect

McCloud: not quite as fast as his namesake but he can do some damage at least. After dicking around trolling with max SAtk and Solarbeam I decided to go with a more bulky set to keep my favourite alive (there's a reason he's shiny). Fire Blast over Flamethrower because really, the blasts rarely miss and hit a lot harder. Toxic to force some switches, while Sunny Day pisses off the sand inducers, whose storms I just removed. This usually results in an angry Earthquake though, which usually OHKO's after stealth rocks. Protect can defend against these quakes, but I can't switch the weather and stay alive in one turn, can I? More Defence EV's, perhaps?

Sofi (Heatran) (F) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earth Power
- Flame Charge

Sofi needs a ladder to get up to her balloon, but when she's up there it's incredibly helpful. Can be used to predict against quakes or incoming fires. Usually ends up getting popped by the odd Stone Edge, however. Fire Blast deals with most things, though it seems to be my least used move...
HP Ice deals with dragons who want to get ragey at my team (yes, you, Dragonite) and has surprised a few opponents. Earth Power deals with...stuff (I can't remember what, Tyranitar iirc) while Flame Charge is there for set up. Seriously, you may mock, but the amount of times I've pulled off a sweep from just one charge is ridiculous. GOGO HEATRAN SWEEP

Harry (Heracross) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Harry is contemplating how to deal with everyone else's pokémon. This set is similar to Choiced Terrakion, except Harry deals with Psychics better. Basically, click a move and pain happens. After you kill one, more pain happens, thanks to Moxie. Megahorn deals with the aforementioned Psychics, while Close Combat hits other things. Stone Edge can muck up the birds in the sky while Earthquake is there for more coverage. Yes, Terrakion is faster and (marginally) more powerful, but I prefer to have a mega-powerful Bug STAB rather than X-Scissor. And Choiced, Heracross outspeeds most things anyway.

Victory (Venusaur) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- SolarBeam
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Sludge Bomb
- Growth

Fairly standard Venasaur set here, Victory likes to do damage, and the more the better. After a x2 SpA boost, everything on this set kills something. Solarbeam is the STAB of choice, although maybe Giga Drain may be better to keep hurting things for longer, as Victory does like to die quickly. HP Ice deals with dragons (inb4 "HURR DURR Y U NO USE HP FIRE", I've tried that, I just got walled by dem dragons), while Sludge Bomb kills everything again with x2 damage. Will still go down fighting when raining after x2 Growth boost (no solarbeam? No problem! Sludge Bomb in yo face).

Starshine (Starmie) @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Rapid Spin
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Ice Beam

Starfish, starfish, in the game. Not perfect, but can be quite effective against certain threats. Psychic is the STAB of choice and helps deal with annoying fighting types on the opponent's side. No Hydro Pump because sun doesn't allow for pussy water fights. Rapid Spin keeps the rocks 'n' stuff (sorry, I've been listening to deadmau5 a lot today) off the field, while HP Fire is the killer. Opponent sees Starshine, sends in Ferrothorn. But too late! as he sees that his fateful iron-clad garden weed is nothing but ash on the floor. Also works with ferrous bugs! (although those tend to U-turn before I can do anything). Ice Beam deals with dragons and Tornadus-T (screw you, good luck spamming hurricane under sun, you bastard).

Summary

Overall, this team is effective against weatherless teams and hail teams. I think it's a 50/50 against sand teams, as although three of my pokés work under sand, it shuts down Starshine's HP Fire, and cuts Sofi's usefulness. Rain is the bane of this team, although it isn't unknown for me to beat them (see http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou6144537), it's rare.

Thanks for any suggestions you may have!

 

[Delko]

Hi, this teams looks nice.

Just a small suggestion, but perhaps try Giga Drain over SolarBeam on Venusaur. Sun won't be up all the time with weather being so common, and Giga Drain gives you a good alternative Grass-STAB that doesn't require Sun. It can also let you heal off Life Orb recoil and lets you beat most special walls like Blissey one-on-one.

You can also consider to give Mamoswine more speed rather then HP, as your current EV-spread seems a bit insufficient.

Good luck !

 

[Dr Ciel]

Hi there, this is a nice sun team wyou're trying to use. Sun is a very underrated weather, but can be downright devastating if you can use it correctly. This team seems very solid, as usual, the teams stratehy is to try and get Venusaur to sweep and then clean-up late game with your Scarf Heracross. Anyways, I'll go ahead and suggest some EV and moveset changes. Now, be reminded, that I may change a Pokemon or two, so please bear with me. Alright, let me get onto this rate before I throw off the whole point of this reply. Alright, if you want Mamoswine to be a wallbreaker/revenge killer, I suggest you use the Life Orb set over your current one. With a Life Orb set, Mamoswine can use its huge attack power and dual STAB do absolutely demolish the most common physical walls in the game. On your Heatran, I suggest that you use Stealth Rock over your current Choice of Flame Charge. Heatran is the most prolific user of Stealth Rock, with its great bulk and ability to withstand most attacks. Lastly, on your Starmie, I suggest you change his EV spread to one of 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe over your current EV spread. The aftermentioned EV spread gives Starmie as much bulk as possible, while the 4 EV investment in Special Attack assures that he can OHKO Gengar with Psyshock. Well, that's all I have to say for now. I hope my advice helped. Have fun and good luck with your team!

Set

Mamoswine @ Life Orb Lv. 100 -- Thick Fat

Nature: Jolly - EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Stone Edge
- Icicle Crash

~Dr Ciel~ (The doctor is OUT)

 

[ElevenTwoTwo]

Thanks for the rates, guys.

@Delko, Giga Drain sounds more appropriate, I'll give it a try. I had tried Mamoswine with more Speed EV's, however I realised that he was still slower than most things, and I wanted him to be bulkier. Ice Shard gives priority if I need to move first.

As for Ciel, I might try a Life Orb set, as it does somewhat lack in power against some walls, and more power is better. And thanks for the suggestion about Bulky Starmie, I hadn't thought of that, I'll give it a try.
However, I don't quite agree with you on the suggestion of Stealth Rock over Flame Charge. I wanted my Heatran to be more offensively inclined then other variants, and Flame Charge allows him to set up lethal sweeps.

Thanks again for the ratings, they really help.

 

[Trinitrotoluene]

Hi. I like sun teams, and I think that your sun team is pretty cool. However, there are a few thins which I think should be fixed to improve your team's performance. First point: your Venusaur's EV spread is pretty inefficient. I'd recommend shifting it to 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 180 Spe and using a Timid nature alongside it. This change gives your Venusaur more speed and enough bulk to take an Adamant LO Venusaur's Ice Shard even after taking one round of SR damage. I'm also in agreement with Delko's suggestion of using Giga Drain over SolarBeam. This change, alongside your use of Growth, gives your Venusaur the ability to best Chansey and Blissey lacking Thunder Wave. For Mamoswine, I'd recommend using Icicle Spear over Icicle Crash. SubCM Latias and SubProtect Gliscor look like problems for your team to face down, since the former can set up CMs against half of your team (Ninetales, Heatran, Starmie) and the latter can start a SubProtect chain against Heracross and Ninetales. Icicle Spear, thanks to its multi-hit property, can get around this problem and bash the Pokemon behind the sub, and if you're lucky enough, you may just score all 5 hits, which can OHKO both Pokemon. Also, for Mamoswine, I'd recommend going with Dr Ciel's suggestion of Jolly LO Mamoswine over your current set. This gives it more power, which your team will appreciate, and more speed, which helps in general. Also, I think it would be better for you to use Superpower over Stealth Rock on Mamoswine, and Stealth Rock over Flame Charge on Heatran. The former change gives you a reliable answer to Air Balloon Heatran, which looks like a massive problem for your team to beat, since you only have one answer to it in the form of Heracross, and the latter change gives your team a more reliable SR inducer, courtesy of Heatran's typing. Also, with the resurgence of rain teams, Heatran isn't going to be sweeping much these days. Anyways, a list of changes can be found below.

Set:

Mamoswine @ Life Orb | Thick Fat
Jolly | 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Earthquake | Ice Shard | Icicle Spear | Superpower

Nitpicks:

• 
  • 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Modest ----> 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 180 Spe Timid
  • SolarBeam ----> Giga Drain
• 
  • Current set ----> Life Orb set
• 
  • Flame Charge ----> Stealth Rock

Hope this helps. Good luck!

 

[mudkipmanxp5]

I would really suggest using HP Fire over HP ice on Venusaur. You said that without it, you get walled by dragons. However, in my experience, Sludge bomb kills most dragons, bar garchomp (which u can use solarbeam against anyway) if u are on +2. Also, i prefer Giga drain > Solarbeam a lot more, the increase in longevity is much more noticeable than the lack of power. Life orb really takes its toll on Venusaurs without Giga drain.