Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster here. First post and first RMT.
I played Pokemon battle simulators on and off since gen 4, and started again recently, having never seen gens 6-8. It was quite confusing for a while with so many older gen pokemon not being available in gen 8!
Anyway, I have always been a fan of unconventional anti-meta teams. That seems to be where I end up with any type of team-based strategy game. This one is no different, and has turned out surprisingly well given the steep learning curve with newer gens and the constant flux of the OU tier thanks to all these SS DLCs.
This team has just recently pushed me into top 500. It's by no means perfect, but I would love input from others as to how to improve it.
Team Building Process
I basically experimented with many newer mons until I found something in the newer gens that particularly interested me. The first that caught my attention was Hatterene.
Hatterene has an impressive special attack, useful ability in Magic Bounce, reasonable bulk but horrendous speed. But this makes it the perfect trick room user. Having never used trick room before, this interested me. I set out to build a trick room team around Hatterene, and although the final result turned out somewhat different, it was quite an interesting and useful learning process.
As I was trying to build a trick room team, I went to look for a second trick room user. Jirachi was a natural choice for covering Hatterene's steel weakness and serving as a physical attacker. It also helps Hatterene get past specially bulky fairy types.
The third trick room user I then found was Chandelure. I soon found that it was not the best idea to try to trick room all the time, and ultimately found that Chandelure worked better without running trick room, but putting that aside, this thing's potential for pure damage output was just too good to pass up. And as you will later see, the pieces started to fit together a lot better when I decided to add sun.
Another thing that interested me in the newer gens is the dual defensive and offensive potential in the combination of Iron Defense and Body Press. I set out to find the best abuser of these moves - a pokemon with a sky high defense stat that I can use. Steelix was the first obvious choice, but Avalugg had one big advantage - access to Recover. That means it could switch in to a physical attacker, use Iron Defense, and then recover away the damage. Without a recovery move, Steelix will eventually be worn down.
Avalugg was my answer to almost any physical threat. However, it has abysmal special defense, meaning that I needed a special wall. However, given the nature of the team I was putting together, a passive special wall simply wouldn't do. Curselax became the natural fit. In addition to curse boosting its attack and defence as a bonus, it is also able to make excellent use of trick room.
The last piece to the puzzle and the one that makes the team work. I wanted a counter to weather teams, which are still relatively common. Sun was perfect - it boosted Hatterene's Mystical Fire, made it possible for Chandelure to bust holes in almost any special wall, and boosted Snorlax's Heat Crash. Torkoal was also an excellent second physical wall, as well as having access to both stealth rock and rapid spin.
TEAM:
Hatterene (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Mystical Fire
- Dazzling Gleam
This is a fairly standard trick room set, but it's potential to sweep is amazing. Mystical fire is usually too weak to reliably sweep past its steel counters, but with Sun support and stealth rock, Hatterene becomes much more deadly. The 100% chance to lower special attack also helps prevent calm mind setup sweepers from effectively taking advantage of Hatterene.
With Trick Room up, dealing with the likes of Hydreigon, Dragapult, Urshifu, Gengar and many of the tier's offensive threats becomes as easy as squashing a bug. However, there are some that Hatterene cannot deal with at full HP, including Rotom-H, Cinderace, Zeraora and Marowak-A. You generally don't want to Trick Room with Marowak-A still alive, because it will actually give the opponent a chance to use Trick Room against you, whereas normally Chandelure would outspeed it.
Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- U-turn
- Trick Room
- Zen Headbutt
I ran a few different variations including slow versions for trick room, but quickly realised that not only is a base 100 speed mon not suited to take advantage of trick room, it is also important for trick room teams to have some faster mons for when trick room is not active. That's why I opted for the scarfed variant. I have been finding that the faster threats to Jirachi like Dragapult, Zeraora and Cinderace don't generally run scarf, so it's a fairly safe bet that a scarfed Jirachi will outspeed them.
With Magnezone now back in gen 8, you will need to be wary of being trapped and use U-Turn when unsure, but Jirachi is still proving to be very useful.
Trick Room is generally used where Jirachi forces a switch and Hatterene is having difficulty finding an opportunity to set up Trick Room by itself. It is especially useful late game.
I have also added on extra twist - Zen Headbutt instead of Trick. I understand the utility of Trick, but I have found that I generally do not need it to break through walls, and Zen Headbutt can catch its usual switch ins like Zeraora, Cinderace, Rotom-H and Toxapex off guard, plus 40% flinch chance with Serene Grace is still not too bad. You will have to be wary of dark types though. Damage calcs for Zen Headbutt usecase:
Chandelure @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
I cannot express just how powerful Chandelure is in Sun. Well, actually, I can...
That's right folks, it can even brute force its way past that infamous little pink blob. It is probably the only mon in the tier capable of this feat without requiring a super-effective move. And if you manage to catch a boost with Flash Fire, you're generally safe to spam Flamethrower:
You could run Modest for even more raw power, but I generally find the extra speed to be useful. The point of Chandelure is to switch in to a slower mon that can't really threaten it, and then spam Fire Blast / Flamethrower as appropriate. Shadow Ball might be the better choice some times, but while Sun is active, Fire Blast is almost always the better choice. People tend to switch in something like Toxapex or Kommo-O (expecting a shadow ball), only to then be facing a KO after taking a Fire Blast. I would say that 60% of the time, if Chandelure forces a switch while in the sun, at least one mon will get KO'd.
Will-O-Wisp is designed to cripple Cinderace (since it always runs Libero these days), although it might work for some other Sucker Punch users. I have to say that there is nothing more satisfying than switching Chandelure into a Pyro Ball, and then firing off Will-O-Wisp when Cinderace tries to use Sucker Punch (although it will work all the same even if it tries to use bulk up, court change or anything else that makes it lose its fire typing). This is probably the single highest cause of my opponents ragequitting.
Avalugg @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Recover
- Body Press
- Crunch
- Iron Defense
This thing is the definition of a physical wall. Its pure ice typing is unfortunate, but generally I have found Leftovers to be more useful than Heavy Duty Boots because of how much physical punishment Avalugg can take and its access to Recover. I have to say though, it had a much easier time before the introduction of Urshifu. A Close Combat from a banded Urshifu will take most of Avalugg's HP. However, it still remains one of the few mons in the tier that can take either a Wicked Blow or a Surging Strike from Urshifu-Rapid Strike and shrug it off with Recover. It can even threaten Urshifu with a 184 base defense Body Press.
The general idea with Avalugg is to absorb physical hits. Except against the strongest foes, you can generally use Iron Defense and then Recover, then fire off a +2 Body Press on the switch in. If HP is at around half already though, you should generally use Recover first to preserve HP and allow it to absorb more hits on switch in. If anyone is dumb enough to not switch out a physical sweeper, you can then cause some damage. For example, people try to set up Bulk Up Zeraora on Avalugg, but Iron Defense very quickly overtakes Bulk Up, and without that +2 advantage, not even Close Combat on Zeraora can do much to Avalugg, not to mention the Bulk Up variant usually only runs Drain Punch.
Needless to say you should switch out Avalugg immediately if a special attacker switches in (usually to Snorlax). If you have removed all special threats in the opponent's team, your goal is basically to just find a chance to switch in Avalugg, set up at least one Iron Defense, and sweep through the rest of the team.
Crunch is there to hit ghost types that are immune to Body Press. This allows Avalugg to beat Mimikyu and even Marowak-A if an Iron Defense is in place, as well as physical variants of Dragapult and Aegislash. I prefer it over Earthquake because the only time you would really use it on Avalugg is against ghost types. If you have to resort to Earthquake for any other reason, you're either desperate or using Avalugg wrong. Toxic might be another option, but then it will be helpless against Aegislash.
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Atk / 184 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Curse
- Body Slam
- Rest
- Heat Crash
I'm surprised this thing isn't used very often in the tier given its ability to wall most special threats and setup as a physical wall, physical threat and status inducer (with Body Slam) at the same time. The most common use for Snorlax is to switch into a special sweeper like Hydreigon, and then either use Curse or Body Slam / Heat Crash as appropriate if predicting a switch. Urshifu really loves to switch in to Snorlax, so if it's still alive then I generally use Body Slam for the 30% paralysis chance. Alternatively, Heat Crash's damage is at 120 most of the time given Snorlax's enormous weight, and in the Sun it effectively becomes a STAB move. Catching Rillaboom or Heracross on the switch in = guaranteed KO if in sun. Snorlax can also be used as a status absorber if Hatterene is not available, since it is quite viable for Snorlax to get a curse or two in (to be able to sponge physical hits) and then rest it off.
The EV spread is designed to give Snorlax a good OHKO chance using Heat Crash against some key counters even without a Sun or Curse boost, and some other counters with a Sun boost but no Curse boost.
However, CurseLax does have some new threats with the new DLC, including Urshifu (which bypasses Curse's defense stat raises) and Marowak-A. CurseLax is also completely helpless against Chandelure, but luckily the latter is rarely seen in OU.
Torkoal @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Yawn
- Rapid Spin
The one that brings this team together. Despite fire being a terrible defensive type, Torkoal is still a defensive behemoth, and can function as a secondary physical sponge. I pretty much only ever use Torkoal as lead except against other sun teams, where I tend to use Jirachi as scout.
The idea with Torkoal is to bring in Sun and set up stealth rock. I often find Torkoal matching up with Excadrill or Urshifu. In that case I would simply use Yawn (as I do probably 80% of the time as the opening move), as Torkoal is perfectly capable of taking an Earthquake or Wicked Blow. This then forces them out, and Torkoal would Stealth Rock on the switch in. Or, they can KO Torkoal with a second hit but then be put to sleep, which is a scenario that I'm willing to accept. It just means that I should take full advantage of the Sun while it is still in effect, which I can usually do with a free switch in or setup turn that a sleeping mon provides.
If the opponent does switch out on Yawn, they tend to switch in a defogger due to the expected Stealth Rock. In that case I just use Yawn again. I do this even for a Pelipper switch in, because the opponent generally uses Defog to remove SR, or U-Turn when expecting a switch, so they can switch in a Swift Swimmer. This allows me to set up SR again.
If the opponent sets up its own SR and has a ghost type in their party, I generally use Yawn as the next move as the ghost type will generally switch in, predicting a Rapid Spin. I can then Rapid Spin as they switch out the ghost type on the Yawn.
Lava Plume is there to induce burn and can also function as a decent attack given Sun + STAB. If you're predicting a Taunt from the opponent, Lava Plume will give you a free turn to deal some damage and potentially cripple the opponent.
General Strategy and Issues
A lot of the general strategy has been covered above. There are several preferred ways you can approach the strategy depending on the opponent's team:
- Sun abuse, making full use of Chandelure;
- Trick Room abuse, making full use of Hatterene and Mystical Fire in the Sun;
- Removing special sweepers and then letting Avalugg do its work;
- Setting up CurseLax after removing its threats.
SR can be a problem for the team. You should Rapid Spin with Torkoal or block the setup with Hatterene as much as possible.
The lack of priority moves also means that there are no counters once certain pokemon get an opportunity to set up.
Other general issues include:
- weaknesses to ghost type moves (3 out of 6 mons but 1 no effect from Snorlax), dark type moves (2 out of 6 mons with no resists) and ground type moves (3 out of 6 mons with no resists). All three are prevalent offensive move types in the tier, but most of the time between Avalugg and Snorlax, they can weather the damage.
- VoltTurn teams. I will generally have to sacrifice a mon and get Trick Room active, or have Chandelure fire off a Fire Blast or two to put some dents in the team.
Problem pokemon include:
Hawlucha with Rillaboom support. The instant Unburden plus the +1 def can be a huge problem. When Rillaboom switches in, I switch in Avalugg as rule of thumb. Avalugg can take any hit from Rillaboom, and if the opponent switches in Hawlucha immediately, I can match Iron Defense with SD and then kill it with Body Press. If I don't have Avalugg, I have to switch in Jerachi on Rillaboom and hopefully catch Hawlucha off guard with a Zen Headbutt on switch in. If Hawlucha forces a switch on me and uses SD on that turn with unburden active, it's pretty much game over.
Urshifu. This thing hits incredibly hard and can break through defensive stat raises. Avalugg is a good answer, but if it gets hit with a predicted Close Combat, it will not be able to take another hit. Unless it is the Rapid Strike version (which allows Jirachi to use Zen Headbutt for super effective damage), without Avalugg I basically have to rely on Jerachi's Iron Head.
Chandelure. Luckily it is not common in OU, but a Chandelure running a substitute set is a big problem for this team. There is no real answer if Trick Room is not active. I am pretty much relying on not seeing this set in OU at the moment.
Terrakion. I have no problem with the lead variant, but the SD variant is a big problem. If allowed to set up with no Trick Room active, I have to rely on Jerachi's Iron Head. 60% flinch chance means I am more likely to win than lose, but if I lose then there is no answer from the rest of the team.
Dragapult, specifically the DD variant that also runs Fire Blast (making Avalugg not a good counter). There is a complex strategy to deal with it though. DD variants run Phantom Foce and Dragon Darts, so the idea is to switch in Hatterene on the Dragon Darts, use Trick Room on the first turn of Phantom Force, switch in Snorlax to take the hit for 0 damage, then switch back to Hatterene for the Dragon Darts. At that point Hatterene will get to move first due to Trick Room. If Dragapult is running substitute, the prediction can get more complicated, but you shouldn't have problems between Hatterene and Snorlax, and worse case Dragapult will eventually run out of PP for Phantom Force.
In a pinch, Avalugg can take one hit of Fire Blast from a DD Dragapult, and fire off a Crunch.
Anyway I think that's it - would love to hear feedback on how to improve the team.
I played Pokemon battle simulators on and off since gen 4, and started again recently, having never seen gens 6-8. It was quite confusing for a while with so many older gen pokemon not being available in gen 8!
Anyway, I have always been a fan of unconventional anti-meta teams. That seems to be where I end up with any type of team-based strategy game. This one is no different, and has turned out surprisingly well given the steep learning curve with newer gens and the constant flux of the OU tier thanks to all these SS DLCs.
This team has just recently pushed me into top 500. It's by no means perfect, but I would love input from others as to how to improve it.
Team Building Process
I basically experimented with many newer mons until I found something in the newer gens that particularly interested me. The first that caught my attention was Hatterene.
Hatterene has an impressive special attack, useful ability in Magic Bounce, reasonable bulk but horrendous speed. But this makes it the perfect trick room user. Having never used trick room before, this interested me. I set out to build a trick room team around Hatterene, and although the final result turned out somewhat different, it was quite an interesting and useful learning process.
As I was trying to build a trick room team, I went to look for a second trick room user. Jirachi was a natural choice for covering Hatterene's steel weakness and serving as a physical attacker. It also helps Hatterene get past specially bulky fairy types.
The third trick room user I then found was Chandelure. I soon found that it was not the best idea to try to trick room all the time, and ultimately found that Chandelure worked better without running trick room, but putting that aside, this thing's potential for pure damage output was just too good to pass up. And as you will later see, the pieces started to fit together a lot better when I decided to add sun.
Another thing that interested me in the newer gens is the dual defensive and offensive potential in the combination of Iron Defense and Body Press. I set out to find the best abuser of these moves - a pokemon with a sky high defense stat that I can use. Steelix was the first obvious choice, but Avalugg had one big advantage - access to Recover. That means it could switch in to a physical attacker, use Iron Defense, and then recover away the damage. Without a recovery move, Steelix will eventually be worn down.
Avalugg was my answer to almost any physical threat. However, it has abysmal special defense, meaning that I needed a special wall. However, given the nature of the team I was putting together, a passive special wall simply wouldn't do. Curselax became the natural fit. In addition to curse boosting its attack and defence as a bonus, it is also able to make excellent use of trick room.
The last piece to the puzzle and the one that makes the team work. I wanted a counter to weather teams, which are still relatively common. Sun was perfect - it boosted Hatterene's Mystical Fire, made it possible for Chandelure to bust holes in almost any special wall, and boosted Snorlax's Heat Crash. Torkoal was also an excellent second physical wall, as well as having access to both stealth rock and rapid spin.
TEAM:
Hatterene (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Mystical Fire
- Dazzling Gleam
This is a fairly standard trick room set, but it's potential to sweep is amazing. Mystical fire is usually too weak to reliably sweep past its steel counters, but with Sun support and stealth rock, Hatterene becomes much more deadly. The 100% chance to lower special attack also helps prevent calm mind setup sweepers from effectively taking advantage of Hatterene.
With Trick Room up, dealing with the likes of Hydreigon, Dragapult, Urshifu, Gengar and many of the tier's offensive threats becomes as easy as squashing a bug. However, there are some that Hatterene cannot deal with at full HP, including Rotom-H, Cinderace, Zeraora and Marowak-A. You generally don't want to Trick Room with Marowak-A still alive, because it will actually give the opponent a chance to use Trick Room against you, whereas normally Chandelure would outspeed it.
252+ SpA Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill in Sun: 396-468 (109.6 - 129.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp in Sun: 376-444 (138.7 - 163.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone in Sun: 306-362 (108.5 - 128.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna in Sun: 248-294 (82.3 - 97.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Hatterene Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 248-294 (81.5 - 96.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Hatterene Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 374-444 (117.9 - 140%) -- guaranteed OHKO
With SpD invested Magearna or Magnezone, a Mystical Fire from Hatterene will actually lower their SpA enough for Hatterene to survive a Flash Cannon or Fleur Cannon (25% OHKO chance in case of specs Magnezone), so Hatterene with Trick Room active can beat them at the cost of most of its HP.
252+ SpA Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp in Sun: 376-444 (138.7 - 163.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone in Sun: 306-362 (108.5 - 128.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna in Sun: 248-294 (82.3 - 97.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Hatterene Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 248-294 (81.5 - 96.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Hatterene Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 374-444 (117.9 - 140%) -- guaranteed OHKO
With SpD invested Magearna or Magnezone, a Mystical Fire from Hatterene will actually lower their SpA enough for Hatterene to survive a Flash Cannon or Fleur Cannon (25% OHKO chance in case of specs Magnezone), so Hatterene with Trick Room active can beat them at the cost of most of its HP.
Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- U-turn
- Trick Room
- Zen Headbutt
I ran a few different variations including slow versions for trick room, but quickly realised that not only is a base 100 speed mon not suited to take advantage of trick room, it is also important for trick room teams to have some faster mons for when trick room is not active. That's why I opted for the scarfed variant. I have been finding that the faster threats to Jirachi like Dragapult, Zeraora and Cinderace don't generally run scarf, so it's a fairly safe bet that a scarfed Jirachi will outspeed them.
With Magnezone now back in gen 8, you will need to be wary of being trapped and use U-Turn when unsure, but Jirachi is still proving to be very useful.
Trick Room is generally used where Jirachi forces a switch and Hatterene is having difficulty finding an opportunity to set up Trick Room by itself. It is especially useful late game.
I have also added on extra twist - Zen Headbutt instead of Trick. I understand the utility of Trick, but I have found that I generally do not need it to break through walls, and Zen Headbutt can catch its usual switch ins like Zeraora, Cinderace, Rotom-H and Toxapex off guard, plus 40% flinch chance with Serene Grace is still not too bad. You will have to be wary of dark types though. Damage calcs for Zen Headbutt usecase:
252 Atk Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Zeraora: 154-183 (48.5 - 57.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cinderace: 139-165 (46.1 - 54.8%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Heat: 103-123 (33.9 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 116-140 (38.1 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 56 Def Amoonguss: 270-320 (62.6 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cinderace: 139-165 (46.1 - 54.8%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Heat: 103-123 (33.9 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 116-140 (38.1 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 56 Def Amoonguss: 270-320 (62.6 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
Chandelure @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
I cannot express just how powerful Chandelure is in Sun. Well, actually, I can...
252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Cinderace in Sun: 276-326 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon in Sun: 238-281 (73.2 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Urshifu-Rapid-Strike in Sun: 331-390 (97 - 114.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kommo-o in Sun: 210-247 (59.3 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 44+ SpD Primarina in Sun: 169-200 (46.5 - 55%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill in Sun: 263-310 (76.9 - 90.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Seismitoad in Sun: 276-326 (66.6 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex in Sun: 161-189 (52.9 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 279-328 (39.6 - 46.6%) -- 34.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon in Sun: 238-281 (73.2 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Urshifu-Rapid-Strike in Sun: 331-390 (97 - 114.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kommo-o in Sun: 210-247 (59.3 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 44+ SpD Primarina in Sun: 169-200 (46.5 - 55%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill in Sun: 263-310 (76.9 - 90.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Seismitoad in Sun: 276-326 (66.6 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex in Sun: 161-189 (52.9 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 279-328 (39.6 - 46.6%) -- 34.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
That's right folks, it can even brute force its way past that infamous little pink blob. It is probably the only mon in the tier capable of this feat without requiring a super-effective move. And if you manage to catch a boost with Flash Fire, you're generally safe to spam Flamethrower:
252 SpA Choice Specs Flash Fire Chandelure Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 340-402 (48.3 - 57.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO, guaranteed after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Flash Fire Chandelure Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon in Sun: 292-344 (89.8 - 105.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Flash Fire Chandelure Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon in Sun: 292-344 (89.8 - 105.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
You could run Modest for even more raw power, but I generally find the extra speed to be useful. The point of Chandelure is to switch in to a slower mon that can't really threaten it, and then spam Fire Blast / Flamethrower as appropriate. Shadow Ball might be the better choice some times, but while Sun is active, Fire Blast is almost always the better choice. People tend to switch in something like Toxapex or Kommo-O (expecting a shadow ball), only to then be facing a KO after taking a Fire Blast. I would say that 60% of the time, if Chandelure forces a switch while in the sun, at least one mon will get KO'd.
Will-O-Wisp is designed to cripple Cinderace (since it always runs Libero these days), although it might work for some other Sucker Punch users. I have to say that there is nothing more satisfying than switching Chandelure into a Pyro Ball, and then firing off Will-O-Wisp when Cinderace tries to use Sucker Punch (although it will work all the same even if it tries to use bulk up, court change or anything else that makes it lose its fire typing). This is probably the single highest cause of my opponents ragequitting.
Avalugg @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Recover
- Body Press
- Crunch
- Iron Defense
This thing is the definition of a physical wall. Its pure ice typing is unfortunate, but generally I have found Leftovers to be more useful than Heavy Duty Boots because of how much physical punishment Avalugg can take and its access to Recover. I have to say though, it had a much easier time before the introduction of Urshifu. A Close Combat from a banded Urshifu will take most of Avalugg's HP. However, it still remains one of the few mons in the tier that can take either a Wicked Blow or a Surging Strike from Urshifu-Rapid Strike and shrug it off with Recover. It can even threaten Urshifu with a 184 base defense Body Press.
The general idea with Avalugg is to absorb physical hits. Except against the strongest foes, you can generally use Iron Defense and then Recover, then fire off a +2 Body Press on the switch in. If HP is at around half already though, you should generally use Recover first to preserve HP and allow it to absorb more hits on switch in. If anyone is dumb enough to not switch out a physical sweeper, you can then cause some damage. For example, people try to set up Bulk Up Zeraora on Avalugg, but Iron Defense very quickly overtakes Bulk Up, and without that +2 advantage, not even Close Combat on Zeraora can do much to Avalugg, not to mention the Bulk Up variant usually only runs Drain Punch.
Needless to say you should switch out Avalugg immediately if a special attacker switches in (usually to Snorlax). If you have removed all special threats in the opponent's team, your goal is basically to just find a chance to switch in Avalugg, set up at least one Iron Defense, and sweep through the rest of the team.
Crunch is there to hit ghost types that are immune to Body Press. This allows Avalugg to beat Mimikyu and even Marowak-A if an Iron Defense is in place, as well as physical variants of Dragapult and Aegislash. I prefer it over Earthquake because the only time you would really use it on Avalugg is against ghost types. If you have to resort to Earthquake for any other reason, you're either desperate or using Avalugg wrong. Toxic might be another option, but then it will be helpless against Aegislash.
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg on a critical hit: 136-162 (34.5 - 41.1%) -- 64.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 126-150 (31.9 - 38%) -- 0.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Hawlucha Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 158-188 (40.1 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 198-234 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (can usually Iron Defense + Recover if not switching in on a move)
252 Atk Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 126-150 (31.9 - 38%) -- 0.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Hawlucha Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 158-188 (40.1 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 198-234 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (can usually Iron Defense + Recover if not switching in on a move)
252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 374-442 (103.6 - 122.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Terrakion: 272-320 (84.2 - 99%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem: 272-320 (69.5 - 81.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 224-264 (92.9 - 109.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Zeraora: 351-414 (110.7 - 130.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cinderace: 316-372 (104.9 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Urshifu: 496-584 (145.4 - 171.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 296-350 (84 - 99.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 174-205 (43.5 - 51.2%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (and remember if it Roosts, then Body Press will do double damage)
252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Terrakion: 272-320 (84.2 - 99%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem: 272-320 (69.5 - 81.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 224-264 (92.9 - 109.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Zeraora: 351-414 (110.7 - 130.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cinderace: 316-372 (104.9 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Urshifu: 496-584 (145.4 - 171.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 296-350 (84 - 99.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 174-205 (43.5 - 51.2%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (and remember if it Roosts, then Body Press will do double damage)
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Atk / 184 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Curse
- Body Slam
- Rest
- Heat Crash
I'm surprised this thing isn't used very often in the tier given its ability to wall most special threats and setup as a physical wall, physical threat and status inducer (with Body Slam) at the same time. The most common use for Snorlax is to switch into a special sweeper like Hydreigon, and then either use Curse or Body Slam / Heat Crash as appropriate if predicting a switch. Urshifu really loves to switch in to Snorlax, so if it's still alive then I generally use Body Slam for the 30% paralysis chance. Alternatively, Heat Crash's damage is at 120 most of the time given Snorlax's enormous weight, and in the Sun it effectively becomes a STAB move. Catching Rillaboom or Heracross on the switch in = guaranteed KO if in sun. Snorlax can also be used as a status absorber if Hatterene is not available, since it is quite viable for Snorlax to get a curse or two in (to be able to sponge physical hits) and then rest it off.
The EV spread is designed to give Snorlax a good OHKO chance using Heat Crash against some key counters even without a Sun or Curse boost, and some other counters with a Sun boost but no Curse boost.
However, CurseLax does have some new threats with the new DLC, including Urshifu (which bypasses Curse's defense stat raises) and Marowak-A. CurseLax is also completely helpless against Chandelure, but luckily the latter is rarely seen in OU.
252 SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 184 SpD Snorlax: 100-118 (19 - 22.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Magearna Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 184 SpD Snorlax: 204-242 (38.9 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 184 SpD Snorlax: 121-144 (23 - 27.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 184 SpD Snorlax: 249-294 (47.5 - 56.1%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (but not really due to -2)
252 SpA Magearna Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 184 SpD Snorlax: 204-242 (38.9 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 184 SpD Snorlax: 121-144 (23 - 27.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 184 SpD Snorlax: 249-294 (47.5 - 56.1%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (but not really due to -2)
72+ Atk Snorlax Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heracross: 280-330 (93 - 109.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
72+ Atk Snorlax Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 330-390 (91.4 - 108%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
72+ Atk Snorlax Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill in Sun: 496-584 (137.3 - 161.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
72+ Atk Snorlax Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Shield in Sun: 246-290 (94.2 - 111.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
72+ Atk Snorlax Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bisharp in Sun: 330-390 (121.7 - 143.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
72+ Atk Snorlax Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rillaboom in Sun: 362-426 (106.1 - 124.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
72+ Atk Snorlax Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna in Sun: 294-348 (97.6 - 115.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 72+ Atk Snorlax Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult in Sun: 156-184 (49.2 - 58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 72+ Atk Snorlax Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Zeraora in Sun: 349-411 (110 - 129.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 72+ Atk Snorlax Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Shield in Sun: 368-434 (140.9 - 166.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 72+ Atk Snorlax Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hawlucha in Sun: 311-367 (104.7 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
72+ Atk Snorlax Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 330-390 (91.4 - 108%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
72+ Atk Snorlax Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill in Sun: 496-584 (137.3 - 161.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
72+ Atk Snorlax Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Shield in Sun: 246-290 (94.2 - 111.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
72+ Atk Snorlax Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bisharp in Sun: 330-390 (121.7 - 143.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
72+ Atk Snorlax Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rillaboom in Sun: 362-426 (106.1 - 124.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
72+ Atk Snorlax Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna in Sun: 294-348 (97.6 - 115.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 72+ Atk Snorlax Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult in Sun: 156-184 (49.2 - 58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 72+ Atk Snorlax Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Zeraora in Sun: 349-411 (110 - 129.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 72+ Atk Snorlax Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Shield in Sun: 368-434 (140.9 - 166.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 72+ Atk Snorlax Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hawlucha in Sun: 311-367 (104.7 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Torkoal @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Yawn
- Rapid Spin
The one that brings this team together. Despite fire being a terrible defensive type, Torkoal is still a defensive behemoth, and can function as a secondary physical sponge. I pretty much only ever use Torkoal as lead except against other sun teams, where I tend to use Jirachi as scout.
The idea with Torkoal is to bring in Sun and set up stealth rock. I often find Torkoal matching up with Excadrill or Urshifu. In that case I would simply use Yawn (as I do probably 80% of the time as the opening move), as Torkoal is perfectly capable of taking an Earthquake or Wicked Blow. This then forces them out, and Torkoal would Stealth Rock on the switch in. Or, they can KO Torkoal with a second hit but then be put to sleep, which is a scenario that I'm willing to accept. It just means that I should take full advantage of the Sun while it is still in effect, which I can usually do with a free switch in or setup turn that a sleeping mon provides.
If the opponent does switch out on Yawn, they tend to switch in a defogger due to the expected Stealth Rock. In that case I just use Yawn again. I do this even for a Pelipper switch in, because the opponent generally uses Defog to remove SR, or U-Turn when expecting a switch, so they can switch in a Swift Swimmer. This allows me to set up SR again.
If the opponent sets up its own SR and has a ghost type in their party, I generally use Yawn as the next move as the ghost type will generally switch in, predicting a Rapid Spin. I can then Rapid Spin as they switch out the ghost type on the Yawn.
Lava Plume is there to induce burn and can also function as a decent attack given Sun + STAB. If you're predicting a Taunt from the opponent, Lava Plume will give you a free turn to deal some damage and potentially cripple the opponent.
252 Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 192-228 (55.8 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal on a critical hit: 168-198 (48.8 - 57.5%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Terrakion Rock Tomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 114-134 (33.1 - 38.9%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Torkoal Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill in Sun: 320-380 (88.6 - 105.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal on a critical hit: 168-198 (48.8 - 57.5%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Terrakion Rock Tomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 114-134 (33.1 - 38.9%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Torkoal Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill in Sun: 320-380 (88.6 - 105.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
General Strategy and Issues
A lot of the general strategy has been covered above. There are several preferred ways you can approach the strategy depending on the opponent's team:
- Sun abuse, making full use of Chandelure;
- Trick Room abuse, making full use of Hatterene and Mystical Fire in the Sun;
- Removing special sweepers and then letting Avalugg do its work;
- Setting up CurseLax after removing its threats.
SR can be a problem for the team. You should Rapid Spin with Torkoal or block the setup with Hatterene as much as possible.
The lack of priority moves also means that there are no counters once certain pokemon get an opportunity to set up.
Other general issues include:
- weaknesses to ghost type moves (3 out of 6 mons but 1 no effect from Snorlax), dark type moves (2 out of 6 mons with no resists) and ground type moves (3 out of 6 mons with no resists). All three are prevalent offensive move types in the tier, but most of the time between Avalugg and Snorlax, they can weather the damage.
- VoltTurn teams. I will generally have to sacrifice a mon and get Trick Room active, or have Chandelure fire off a Fire Blast or two to put some dents in the team.
Problem pokemon include:
Hawlucha with Rillaboom support. The instant Unburden plus the +1 def can be a huge problem. When Rillaboom switches in, I switch in Avalugg as rule of thumb. Avalugg can take any hit from Rillaboom, and if the opponent switches in Hawlucha immediately, I can match Iron Defense with SD and then kill it with Body Press. If I don't have Avalugg, I have to switch in Jerachi on Rillaboom and hopefully catch Hawlucha off guard with a Zen Headbutt on switch in. If Hawlucha forces a switch on me and uses SD on that turn with unburden active, it's pretty much game over.
Urshifu. This thing hits incredibly hard and can break through defensive stat raises. Avalugg is a good answer, but if it gets hit with a predicted Close Combat, it will not be able to take another hit. Unless it is the Rapid Strike version (which allows Jirachi to use Zen Headbutt for super effective damage), without Avalugg I basically have to rely on Jerachi's Iron Head.
Chandelure. Luckily it is not common in OU, but a Chandelure running a substitute set is a big problem for this team. There is no real answer if Trick Room is not active. I am pretty much relying on not seeing this set in OU at the moment.
Terrakion. I have no problem with the lead variant, but the SD variant is a big problem. If allowed to set up with no Trick Room active, I have to rely on Jerachi's Iron Head. 60% flinch chance means I am more likely to win than lose, but if I lose then there is no answer from the rest of the team.
Dragapult, specifically the DD variant that also runs Fire Blast (making Avalugg not a good counter). There is a complex strategy to deal with it though. DD variants run Phantom Foce and Dragon Darts, so the idea is to switch in Hatterene on the Dragon Darts, use Trick Room on the first turn of Phantom Force, switch in Snorlax to take the hit for 0 damage, then switch back to Hatterene for the Dragon Darts. At that point Hatterene will get to move first due to Trick Room. If Dragapult is running substitute, the prediction can get more complicated, but you shouldn't have problems between Hatterene and Snorlax, and worse case Dragapult will eventually run out of PP for Phantom Force.
In a pinch, Avalugg can take one hit of Fire Blast from a DD Dragapult, and fire off a Crunch.
Anyway I think that's it - would love to hear feedback on how to improve the team.
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