SUPER EFFECTIVE PUNISHMENT!!!

[Macc]

Haldo Smogoners! It is I, Macc the Cheesemage, back with an OU team that I am looking for help with. I really like punishing my opponents for always going for SUPER EFFECTIVE attacks and naturally almost every one of my teams focuses on resistances but more importantly 100% resistances! That's why this post is called SUPER EFFECTIVE PUNISHMENT! Without further bs here is the team!

Changes to the original team are in bold. I am considering starting over with this team however and may replace any and all Pokemon.

Pokemon lineup:

SONSON

#392 Infernape, Hasty, Focus Sash
64 Atk / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
(Fire Blast) (Close Combat) (Grass Knot) (Stealth Rock)

Although I like to mix things up as far as which pokemon is the starter on my team... Sonson the Infernape seems to be an easy pick for that. She is designed to be a mostly physical sweeper with an emphasis on wall breaking with her two main STAB moves. U-Turn and Fake Out are there for scouting / annoyance to anything slower than her or without priority moves. Ideally I would be able to bring her out later on in the match onto an ineffective bug attack targeting Cheshire my Umbreon. Or when one of my other pokemon gets KOed and attempt a sweep or just try to annoy.


Ness

#94 Gengar, Hasty, Life Orb
136 Atk / 122 SpA / 252 Spe
(Shadow Ball) (Focus Punch) (Explosion) (Substitute)

Ness the Gengar is my mostly Special Sweeper. He likes to come in on Normal, Fighting and Ground type attacks and or come in when another pokemon has been KOed. He is an excellent swap in for Ray MK2 my Porygon 2 or Cheshire my Umbreon. Shadow Ball is his main form of STAB dmg while Energyball is for Bulky waters, which does darn near the same thing as the more popular Thunerbolt. He loses his ability to take down a Skarmory/Gyarados without Thunderbolt, but I felt that was way too predictable and SonSon can do that much better anyhow or even Ray MK2. Instead he gets the fun of saying my catch phraze suck a DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICK! to any unsuspecting Swamperts! :D Huzzah to surprise! Also, Explosion is for taking down pokemon who are attempting to wall Gengar as a special threat like Blissey and or straight up suicide. Lastly Substitute is rather self explanatory... Although Substitute could be alot more fun with a HP activated berry... Hmm...


Ray MK2

#233 Porygon 2, Relaxed, Lum Berry
252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpA
(Discharge) (Ice Beam) (Recover) (Magic Coat)

I've had this guy for a good while and I'm dissapointed to see how popular he has become lately. :_( Ray MK2 my Porygon 2 was known for the suprise factor to the majority of uniformed individuals I have played against. He can come in on sweepers like Gyarados and Salamence and DESTORY THEM! I can't claim originality for this and that saddens me, but it works just fine. Discharge for Gyara or anything else that wants a good shocking and Ice Beam for anything that wants a good freezing and my hand for anything that wants a good spanking... Recover... For healing... Magic Coat for status reflecting, which I have found to be one of the most fun things to play around with. There's nothing more priceless than throwing a hypnosis back in someone's face and whipping out my catch phraze suck a DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICK! The lum berry on him is obviously for absorbing status on a switch in, which is nice for the odd chance I need to switch in Ray for that. Ray comes in for counters mostly, but could be switched to from Ness if he is threatened and vice versa. Oh, and If someone out there in this crazy world of smog could give me an idea for some originality to this set I would be all ears! Even if that means getting a new Porygon 2 from scratch.


Metal Slug

#423 Gastrodon, Sassy, Leftovers
212 HP / 88 Def / 208 SpDef
(Earthquake) (Toxic) (Stock Pile) (Recover)

Metal Slug my Gastrodon is not only a special defense bulker, but a wonderful staller too! She switches in on threats to Isaac and or anything special without a powerful grass type attack. I do believe she can survive a Grass Knot due to her low weight, which is great since it is the most common grass type move used and her only weakness. Earthquake is a nice STAB attack, which is great for taking down a heatran. Toxic, Stock Pile and Recover is for anything she is stalling against.


Isaac

#205 Forretress, Relaxed, Shedshell
252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD
(Gyro Ball) (Spikes) (Sleep Talk) (Rest)

Isaac is my main physical wall and Rapid Spinner. He is also a mediocur staller. Normal Fortress carry explosion damn near the same set which works, but I always try to go for something off the alien blood trail. He can also absorb all kinds of status being able to rest multiple times due to the Sleep Talk / Rest combo. The set is pretty self explanatory... Isaac can switch in on pokemon trying to take out / poison Metal Slug as well as work with many other pokemon on my team to try and force switches. I've been considering a slightly different set with (Rapid Spin) (Stealth Rock) (Explosion) and (Rest) combined with a Chesto Berry, which loses the longevity for an ability to deal some dmg. However, I am happy with the way he is right now...


Cheshire

#197 Umbreon, Sassy, Chople Berry
252 HP / 160 Def/ 92 SpD
(Pursuit) (Yawn) (Wish) (Protect)

Lastly is my Slightly mixed tank / Wish passer Cheshire the Umbreon! Toxic is used to status the Psychic sweeper that Chesh will most likely come in on as well as other tanks. Yawn is nice for giving sleep and or causing a switch. Wish is self explanatory and Protect ties all of Cheshire the Umbreon's moves together. I like Chesh to trick pokemon into thinking they can take him out with a fighting type move, which is exactly why it has a Chople Berry and lots of Def. Unfortunately that only works once... Nonetheless I am proud of him and how he works! Switch in on Gengars, Alakazams and even other dark pokemon! Huzzah indeed!


That's my team. It seems like it will work well the way it is, but there are a few things that bug me bout it. For instance, It doesn't really have a plan to deal with weather and I'm sure there are many other things I've failed to forsee... Nonetheless I hope you enjoyed reading what I threw together and I am happily awaiting some feedback! Thank you for your time!

Macc out
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[mc2094]

This team is good but there's room for improvement. First off Fakeout 'Nape isn't as good since people are starting to run Sashleads less often. Ape looses to many leads(Azelf, Gross, Swampert, Gyara, Aero with EQuake.) The only common lead it beats is Heatran who will most likley switch out. U-turn is more useful on a choice set. Most player will not switch out and try to get up rocks. If you want to keep this as your lead then switch to mix ape. run Overheat-CC-Grass Knot-SR. This serves as a leadkiler.

OK, I can't get the previous post to work so... the set also helps get down SR with the use of sash.I know you have sr on forrey but rather use him for spikes.Speaking of Forrey, I don't like the moveset... at all. It is pure set up for anything.Once you get down sr all you can do is switch out. Status absorbtion is not helpful when all you can do is spin(assuming ST picks rapid spin.) I would use the standard set. Sorry for the strange format but I'm using a PSP to type this, lol.I'll edit latter.

 

[wildfire393]

Couple of Comments:

Thunderbolt is preferred on Gengar for more than just its ability to hit Bulky waters. Electric + Ghost gets perfect coverage on everything but Magnezone. The combination of Energy Ball and Shadow Ball fails to hit any Steel Type and any Normal/Flying type, amongst others. Also, if you're running sub, I would consider switching your moveset to that of Sub-Punch Gengar.

Forretress I do not like how he is. Most of the time, sleep talk with be useless, as it will either attempt to put up a Stealth Rock that's already present or attempt to Rapid Spin away entry hazards that are not there (or against a ghost). If you're going to run Sleep talk, run moves that can be used more than once, like Spikes or Toxic Spikes and an attack. Rapid Spinning is bad in the current metagame due to Rotom-H anyways.

Also two status moves and no attacking move on Umbreon seems kind of questionable. I would drop Yawn for Pursuit - several Pokemon like Celebi and Starmie will attempt to switch out once Toxic'ed to cure it with Natural Cure, allowing you to hit them with a STAB Super-Effective Base 80 Pursuit.

 

[Macc]

Thank you for your responses. I have had some backup plans as far as movesets go and... Ironically I have an already trained Infernape with an emphasis on special attack instead of physical attack and it has (Fire Blast) (Close Combat)/(Vacuum Wave) (Grass Knot) I'll consider adding (Stealth Rock) like the set you suggested MC, but what about leads that spark weather like Hippowdon/Abomnosnow? Doesn't that make Focus Sash worthless if Infernape lays down Stealth Rock the first turn and its opponent attacks it most likely leaving it at 1 HP which the weather will finish off? With Focus Sash Close combat wouldn't be able to take out Blissey anymore so that's why I decided to consider Vacuum Wave as well. Although... that would make the atk evs frigin worthless...

As far as Ness my Gengar... I had an idea of using (Shadow Ball) (Focus Punch) (Explosion) (Substitute) to emphasize an ironically physical Gengar for an opposite of the Special Infernape. It would still lose coverage of Thunderbolt like you suggested, but the combination of Shadowball / Focus Punch could be hilarious until its time for Gengar to explode... Is that a little too ambitious or could it have some merrit?

I still want to avoid the standard set on Isaac my Forretress and I yet again had another moveset in mind... (Spikes) *As suggested by both of you* (Gyroball) (Explosion) (Rest) with Chesto Berry... That would allow capturing by Magnezone, but that's where explosion would come in. I would really miss the lack of Rapid Spin, however and was originally planning on (Spikes) (Rapid Spin) (Explosion) (Rest) with Chesto, but if I absolutely must have rest in there I might as well keep Shed Shell drop Spin for Gyroball and call it good... However, the two sets with Chesto.. Would they need atk evs to be effective? I like defence from both sides...

Lastly, Cheshire my Umbreon... I don't see Toxic being much of a Pseudo Phazing move like Yawn is and I was wondering if I could take the Pursuit like you suggested keep Yawn Protect and Wish and still be effective. It brings out variety onto the team... :D Huzzah...

Sorry to ask more questions off of your suggestions, but I'll give you a recap of what I was thinking...

Sonson = Infernape
252 SpA 64 Atk 192 Spe
Focus Sash
Hasty
(Fire Blast) (Close Combat)/(Vacuum Wave) (Grass Knot) (Stealth Rock)

Ness = Gengar
Same stats and item
(Shadow Ball) (Focus Punch) (Explosion) (Substitute)

Isaac = Forretress
Same stas and item
(Gyro Ball) (Spikes) (Sleep Talk) (Rest)

or

Different stats and Chesto Berry with...
(Gyro Ball)/(Rapid Spin) (Spikes) (Explosion) (Rest)

Cheshire = Umbreon
Same stats and item if efficient?
(Pursuit) (Yawn) (Wish) (Protect)

Thanks again!

 

[mc2094]

I like the what your doing with umbreon. Maybe you could try HP Fire on gengar because it allows you to hit scizor who can be a problem for this team. Try going with the standard:

Gengar@Life Orb
Timid
4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spd
-Shadowball
-T-Bolt
-Focus Blast
-HP Fire/ Explosion

You can try HP Fire but it will make gengar slower than anything with base 110 speed such as Froslass, and Latias. It's helpful for hitting Scizor and other steels like forrey and 'Gross though it can only 2HKO Gross at best. Hitting Scizor isn't a garantee if it chooses to hit you with a CB Bullet Punch. It's best to predict a switch or let him switch in to you rather than switching into Scizor yourself(confused?) I don't want to change too much of the original team so could you explain a bit more on how Gastrodon helps, that way we can know whether to change his moves or try someone else in his place. I would like to try and fit some more sweepers in here or some poke like zapdos to provide some solid counters.

 

[Macc]

Yeah, that makes sense. I am always learning things about playing Pokemon and tying a team together with a strategy is the wisest thing you can do. My team although decent if my opponent is stupid enough to always go for super effective hits doesn't really have a strategy... I heard a good base for a team is something like... Physical Sweeper, Special Sweeper, Mixed Sweeper, Physical Tank, Special tank, your choice. However, there is so much more to know metagame wise and supposedly countless options to what you use on your team. Do you have any advice for how to build a team? Or well how to battle competitively? I have read quite a few Smogon articles, but I think I still have a ton to learn!

As far as how this team will deal with individual Pokemon Scizor or not... I have been reading up on how to counter each and every OU Pokemon. I didn't think that Scizor would be a huge problem, but it easily could be if Infernape my only Pokemon with a fire type attack is my started / gets knocked out. Hidden Powers have been something that has never worked out for me on any of my Pokemon, unfortunately... I'm sure I could eventually suck it up and take on those math tables of how it works.

Gastrodon doesn't help with a strategy really... At least when I took out the idea of running a Sandstorm team, which I plan on doing as a complete separate team from what I have now. Gastrodon is attempting to be a special wall due to her only weakness being grass and the fact that she can take the most common grass move 'Grass Knot.' Gastrodon stalls and comes in on ineffective attacks / neutral attacks to Stock Pile, Recover and Stockpile till she is at her top defenses. She could be phazed and taken down with status though. I decided to use her for a couple of reasons. The first is I wanted another pokemon who could take special hits and the second being immunity to electric attacks, which is something this team lacks as well as resistance. I used to have Swampert in her place, but I noticed they were similar pokemon and wanted a surprise factor of using Gastrodon.

I'll gladly take any suggestions I can get and even if it means starting this team over from the ground up. If all else fails I think my idea for a Sandstorm team had a little more focus on a strategy than this one if you care to hear it.

Thanks again for putting up with my large walls of text and the advice!

 

[TheMantyke]

First off, I want to say from personal experience that ruining your opponent's Super Effective attacks with immunities (ala Heatran / Vapoeron / Electivire) Can make your team unbelievably fun and effective at times. :)

You might want to rework this team's innards to actually set something up. If you want to focus on punishing super effective hits, try using something like an SD scizor (Works well with a Heatran for it's fire immunity. You can also replace him with Forretress with ease) or even an electivire if your gutsy enough.

As far as current weaknesses, you might have a problem against SD scizor. SD scizor is slowed down by Gastrodon and Forretress, but he'll eventually come out on top if he's using Roost somewhere. To help you with him, try maybe replacing gastrodon with something more stagnent. Gyrados might help for Scizor in particular but I think Swampert or Vaporeon could also fit in nicely.

Edit: I've been called, Mantyke, Tyke, Tman, TMT, 'Tyke, Bitchtyke and Fatyke. Any nickname is fine.

 

[Macc]

Hmm, I do like the look of Scizor and its stats... Also it reminds me of Zero from Mega Man X! In theory a Scizor would be bulky enough to switch in on ineffective attacks and I do enjoy a bulky sweeper. I can't believe I didn't consider using him myself... <,<;

I also think I will go back to using Abe Sapien my Swampert instead of Gastrodon. I need to incorporate some electric resistance / immunity in his case to my team.

Some other Pokemon I was thinking about after I saw your comment were a mixed Dragonite to replace Infernape since Sonson doesn't really fit the theme of resisting / immunities... I also was considering Cut Rotom in place of Gengar / Giving Gengar a Spe and SpA ev set with Poison Orb and (Shadow Ball) (Thunder Bolt) (Energy Ball) (Trick).

Would having a team of Bulky Sweepers with good synergy to resist or be immune to most attacks really work upposed to a straight up defending Pokemon? Would I need to incorporate a fast Pokemon? I feel like I need to learn the basics again >.<; Oh jeeze!

Thanks for your suggestions Tyke! Do you mind if I call you Tyke?

 

[Macc]

Here's a Shameless 24+ish hour bump...

I know I've been asking a ton of questions and have made very few decisions, but please give me some help if you can. I'd like to set this team up for sure!

Thanks again to everyone for your help!

 

[SmokingBomber465]

I think a trap-passing umbreon would serve your team better than a wishing one.
Your team is about getting super effective advantage, so why not apply thisto your umbreon stratey?

Umbreon
-Mean Look
-Baton Pass
-Wish
-Something

I think this will help your team's strategy better.

 

[Macc]

Thanks for your input Smoking Bomber. I was thinking about adjusting my team to be a Baton Pass team and a Mean Look passer seems awesome! Although, I guess I must've mislead you somewhere in the thread, because the original intent when I formed this team was to have a balanced team of Pokemon who can switch between each other and punish my opponents for trying to get super effective hits. However, what you suggested could help me out a lot. Also, I need to start thinking up a more developed strategy. Gaining super effective advantage sounds pretty good and very appropriate.

Now I just need to sit down and work this up...