Announcement SV National Dex Suspect 13 - Heian Alien

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ChrisPBacon

last dancer
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis the defending SM Circuit Champion
UUPL Champion

:sv/darkrai:
Good evening - after some time of investigation, the National Dex council has chosen to move on with tiering action with the tiers premier dark dreamer - Darkrai itself!

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At the start of this year, Darkrai was unbanned from Ubers by a reasonably large margin, with most players believing that the tier's high power level and strong speed control were sufficient to keep it in check. Although it has seen relatively little development since then, the departure of Zamazenta, by far its best answer by virtue of bulk, speed, and typing, has left a Darkrai-shaped hole in many teams, supported by an uncomfortable 3.14 score in the tier's most recent survey and continued success in National Dex Invitational. As such, the council has deemed now, shortly before the start of the next National Dex Premier League, to be an ideal time to revisit this earlier decision and see if it truly has adjusted to the OU metagame.

Darkrai has numerous strengths that can easily be discerned at a short glance. While its Dark Pulse acts as a relatively unremarkable STAB option, the metagame struggles to produce sturdy Dark resistances, with the Dark-weak Galarian Slowking and Iron Crown being crucial special walls on most teams for their general excellence into most other threats. Additionally, even resistances can be broken past by Darkrai - Focus Blast swiftly picks off Mega Tyranitar, while Clefable is chunked heavily by Sludge Bomb. This lends Darkrai to be a naturally effective wielder of both Choice Specs and Nasty Plot sets, the former utilizing options such as Ice Beam and Trick to snipe Landorus-T and Gliscor or cripple neutral targets such as Toxapex respectively, while making its STAB more spammable through Terastallizing into a Dark-type. Meanwhile, Nasty Plot sets can opt for a Z-Move to augment their breaking power - Fightinium Z can break through Ting-Lu and even weakened Blissey, which are otherwise solid checks, while Darkinium-Z brute forces almost anything after a boost, acting as a reliable breaking tool. The fact that these sets are rather malleable makes them more difficult to deal with, as switching in Toxapex or Diancie to scout the Choice Specs set can easily lose a Pokemon to Nasty Plot, whereas keeping a high-health Pokemon in against Darkrai can be muscled through by the natural power of Choice Specs. Hence, the general dirth of reliable answers to Darkrai coupled with its ability to brute force past its checks if it wishes easily make Darkrai a potent metagame force well deserving of its suspect position.

Another key component perhaps supporting Darkrai's ban, and independent of its strength as a wallbreaker, is its propensity to introduce 'hax', or uncompetitive luck elements, to a game. Yes, its main STAB Dark Pulse does come with a nasty secondary chance to flinch which can ruin a chance to retaliate, but this pales in comparison to the most infamous method it has to steal games - Hypnosis. Armed with Hypnosis, Nasty Plot, and a Focus Sash to survive revenge killers or Psychium Z to outspeed them, Darkrai can incapacitate both offensive and defensive counterplay, however, this lies on the fate of a slightly weighted coin flip. This only makes Darkrai more difficult and unreliable to manage, as conventional methods of answering sleep, such as picking a dedicated 'sleep sacrifice' at the start of the game, can be interrupted by an 'unlucky' miss from the opponent. Hence, without specific methods such as Mega Lopunny's Fake Out or Mega Tyranitar's sand and resistances, this leaves the 'safest' means of managing Hypnosis Darkrai to exploit its lower immediate power by staying in and attempting to dodge sleep, an arguably unreliable and uncompetitive interaction which removes much of the skill present in managing a standard offensive threat.

Despite the various means Darkrai has of sending the tier into the void, the maligned mythical boasts means of counterplay preventing its chokehold on the tier. While its speed is excellent and it boasts decent 70/90/90 bulk to allow setup opportunities against most defensive Pokemon, many of the tier's excellent revenge killers, including Mega Lopunny, Tapu Koko, and Choice Scarf Tapu Lele and Urshifu-R can eliminate it, boasting naturally good matchups into it courtesy of their typing and can even stomach a Dark Pulse on switch-in in a pinch. Speaking of which, relying on Dark Pulse as its sole STAB can fall short at times, as even after Terastallizing, the Choice Specs set occasionally finds itself struggling to KO neutral targets before they retaliate or pivot into a more sturdy resistance unafraid of coverage. While Darkrai has theoretical means to break through all its checks with Nasty Plot, it can suffer from 4-moveslot syndrome, as it desires Focus Blast and Sludge Bomb for Dark-and Fairy-types, Ice Beam to threaten out Landorus-T and Gliscor, and Hypnosis to grant setup, while also needing to pick between Darkinium Z to OHKO Toxapex and Assault Vest Tornadus-T and Fightinium Z for Ting-Lu. Many Terastallization options are also tailored to matchup well against Darkrai, with Tera Fairy being a prevalent option on most defensive Pokemon for its general utility and forcing it into uncomfortable interactions where it risks falling short. Although Darkrai is undeniably a potent force, the not uncommon scenarios where it falls short of its expected value against an opponent coupled with most teams being able to prevent it from spiralling through well-timed Terastallization and offensive pressure limits it from being an objectively overwhelming force.

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  • Reading this is mandatory for participating in the suspect test. The voting requirements are a minimum GXE of 80 with at least 50 games played. In addition, you may play 1 less game for every 0.2 GXE you have above 80 GXE, down to a minimum of 30 games at a GXE of 84. Also, needing more than 50 games to reach 80 GXE will suffice.
  • The table for this can be found below:
    GXEminimum games
    8050
    80.249
    80.448
    80.647
    80.846
    8145
    81.244
    81.443
    81.642
    81.841
    8240
    82.239
    82.438
    82.637
    82.836
    8335
    83.234
    83.433
    83.632
    83.831
    8430

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  • The suspect test will run for approximately two weeks, lasting until August 11th at 11:59 pm (GMT-4), and then we will put up the voting thread in the Blind Voting subforum.
This thread will open after 24 hours to allow all users to share their thoughts on this suspect test and discuss with one another their thoughts. Here's a list of rules that we expect all posters to follow:
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Keep in mind that the outcome of our suspect tests are decided by the community; anyone who rightfully achieves voting requisites is allowed to vote and voice their opinion. Please remember to be respectful to everyone, and as always; the outcome is up to you.
 
Letting this thing into the tier was a mistake from the beginning. 135/125 is almost on par with Flutter Mane statwise, it has access to great coverage and setup, can use tera and z-crystals to beat things it usually can't, and on top of all this, sleep makes it able to win by getting in position or by leading.

+2 252 SpA Darkrai All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 530-624 (103.1 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 151-178 (49.8 - 58.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

Even stall can't always prepare for this, with psyshock 2hkoing clodsire and blissey being unable to deal with a supereffective z-move. Z-Hypnosis makes it even harder to revenge kill, outspeeding even booster boulder and getting up to 2 free turns of setup. Sleep makes it uncompetitive, and it's other tools make it overpowered.
 
I know it's easy to make the claim in hindsight that Darkrai would be a powerful presence given that we've seen what it's capable of now, and the different sets people have innovated but I don't think we should be saying "It was a mistake to let Darkrai in" or "We knew it'd be broken" because, as the test from earlier in the metagame showed, it wasn't completely broken at all at the time. The metagame was more equipped to handle it and we hadn't seen the full reach of its possibilities (and frankly I'm not even sure we have seen that yet, there still seems to be room for more possibilities with this mon).

Anyways, I'll be voting to ban Darkrai. The potency of Nasty Plot+Z sets are very much evident but I don't believe they're by themselves entirely broken, though it's quite frustrating to try and rely on bulky neutral pokemon to tank a +2 Dark Pulse and answer it (status, Salt Cure, what have you) only to end up flinched and thus broken through anyways. To me there are a few things that really shine a light on how good Darkrai is as of late, and why it's broken. The ban of Zamazenta removed the best splashable check in the tier while also drastically lowering the average speed tier, with the fastest unboosted pokemon now being Koko, MLop, Weavile and itself. There's booster Valiant, but given the one time nature and how easy it is to draw Val into battle early and force it to burn the item, I don't count it. There's not many pokemon that naturally outrun Darkrai anymore without the help of scarf/booster energy, which is more limiting for offensive counterplay than you'd think. The power of specs and NP+Z is difficult to account for, and you'll be punished for making the wrong call on an unrevealed Darkrai set because they're so potent. Switch in your Ting-Lu expecting Specs, just to watch it NP? You either burn your Tera there to stave it off, or make ballsy double switches hoping to bait out the Z with something else. Especially risky because +2 FB still OHKOS Ting-Lu anyways, so this is unreliable. Conversely, switching in your offensive check to Z expecting it just to eat a specs Dark Pulse or coverage move only further complicates things.

Darkrai has other sets, like Expert Belt, LO+4A, Boots sets with varying coverage and utility and I think they're all excellent, though less problematic. But one set that gets a lot of attention is Z+Hypnosis+NP sets. I'll be up front and say I don't consider this a breaking point for Darkrai by itself, as the mon already is polarizing without it. However, I do find the swingy, RNG heavy nature of such a set to be rather undesirable in this metagame where if it rolls successfully, Darkrai now outspeeds the whole metagame and can gain a +2 boost or potentially more if sleep rolls well. It makes an already difficult to handle pokemon more obnoxious, because switching in your offensive check just to eat a hypnosis can result in wildly skewed advantages for the Darkrai user. It's not even required to burn the Z either, and I've seen some non Z Darkrai still use Hypnosis and break down teams, since Bad Dreams actually kicks in and wears down even offensive answers that get caught by it. I haven't even covered Tera, which it abuses very well to prevent revenge kills and claim more KOs itself.

To summarize, Darkrai's Nasty Plot and Specs sets are very burdensome on teambuilding together, and Z+Hypnosis adds a frustrating element of RNG in trying to check Darkrai during a game which ultimately results in it being an unpleasant presence that I think the tier will be better off without. So I'll be voting to ban it.
 
I’ve posted here about Darkrai that involves it quite a bit but I’ll take the parts out of that and put it here:

Darkrai is an unhealthy fuel to offense and a top offender on why things are so centralized around it. Hopefully it being banned will loosen the playstyle a bit and lead to other future tiering decisions that will tone offense down too. Voting ban.
 
Darkrai Antasma Meme.jpg



:darkrai: This has been the suspect test I have been most conflicted on, so I decided that I may as well write my thoughts down on this thread. :darkrai:

First of all, there's no denying that Darkrai is an incredibly potent and versatile attacker. Darkrai can carry Specs, Nasty Plot, Scarf, Sludge Bomb, Ice Beam, Life Orb, or even options like Psyshock or Thunderbolt for the more ambitious. There are a bunch of tools that Darkrai has to menace its opponent. It's difficult to know what a Darkrai's set will be at first glance, you could switch in your Toxapex or Ting-Lu expecting it to be choiced, only for it to Nasty Plot and put you in an awful situation, knowing that you could likely be vaporized by a Z-Move. On the contrary, you might try and go into something faster than Darkrai as you are expecting a Nasty Plot, just to get hit with a Tera Dark Choice Specs Dark Pulse and take major damage. With the removal of Zamazenta, arguably Darkrai's most reliable check, it has become so much more threatening in the format. Its difficult-to-predict nature means that nothing is truly safe from Darkrai, even things like Clodsire can fall victim to an unexpected Psyshock.

However, Darkrai isn't without its flaws, it is quite prone to many Booster Energy attackers and Choice Scarf users such as Iron Valiant, Urshifu, or Tapu Lele. Speed demons such as Tapu Koko or Lopunny can also force it to leave the field. While not entirely a counter but still worth mentioning, you can also Terastallize something like Ferrothorn, Toxapex, or Gliscor to take an incoming move from Darkrai and cripple it with something like Toxic or Thunder Wave. Furthermore, Darkrai can't pack everything that it wants to have. Bringing a Z-Move means it cannot Tera to flip the script on its checks, and bringing something like Ice Beam or Psyshock on a Nasty Plot build means it'll have to drop something like Sludge Bomb or Focus Blast, both of which are invaluable tools. Darkrai will likely force a KO on its opponent's side, but by then its set should be revealed and they should've formulated a strategy against it. I understand why people would want to ban Darkrai, but I think that these flaws would make it a reasonably beatable Pokemon in the format, albeit a dangerous one.

Anyways, its about time I mention (what I believe to be) the Mammoshka in the room. (How's that for a Dream Team reference?)

Z-Hypnosis, I REALLY despise this set, its the main cause for my decision on this suspect test. Honestly, Z-Hypno Darkrai is the most obnoxious and aggravating thing I've ever dealt with while playing Pokemon, bar none. It is an incredibly uncompetitive and cheap technique. It essentially turns the entire game into a coin-flip, they either land the Hypnosis, get one or two Nasty Plots, and wreak havoc on your team, or miss the Hypnosis and make an absolute fool out of themselves as their Darkrai gets punished immediately while making little to no progress in the game. The speed boost from Hypnosis puts Darkrai completely out of range of common Scarf users and speed demons in the format while turning your would-be check into complete set-up fodder. Here is a totally not over-dramatized example of such a scenario.

Picture this...

You have a solid lead against your adversary, they are clearly struggling and they send out a Darkrai. You decide to let your Ferrothorn be felled by this Darkrai, thinking to yourself, "If he vanquishes me then I shall go to Iron Valiant, it can safely shave off any Choice Specs attack, and if he Nasty Plots I can incapacitate him with Ferrothorn's Thunder Wave, then let Iron Valiant eradicate him with a good ol' Moonius Blasticus(tm) to the face!" Now, you confidently have a plan to bring your Iron Valiant upon this fiend, the Booster Energy you gave your Iron Valiant shall amplify its speed, allowing it to outrun the menace standing in its way and send it to oblivion, or so you thought. To your surprise, the Darkrai charges up a Z-Move and unleashes a supercharged Hypnosis, your Ferrothorn gets put straight to sleep as the Darkrai gains a significant boost to its mobility. While your Ferrothorn is still being tormented in its untimely rest, the Darkrai starts plotting something nasty, knowing full well that it will cause some mayhem. Your Ferrothorn gets felled by a Nasty Plot boosted Dark Pulse, and your Iron Valiant is now too sluggish to outrun this sleepy scoundrel, in fact, all of your allies are. As soon as you send Iron Valiant out, it gets blasted by a Sludge Bomb and instantly knocked out. Your plan is in shambles, and you have just lost this bout. You are now considering ranting about how unfortunate doesn't begin to describe your series on the Smogon webpage...

You plan to revenge kill a Darkrai with Iron Valiant, or at the very least Thunder Wave it with Ferrothorn. Your Ferrothorn gets put to sleep by Z-Hypnosis, and the Darkrai Nasty Plots, KO'ing Ferrothorn with Dark Pulse and outspeeding your Iron Valiant, it then KO's it with Sludge Bomb, making you cry in the process.

Darkrai is a difficult Pokemon to predict, and National Dex giving it more options certainly doesn't help. Z-Hypnosis is genuinely unfun to play against, and can definitely be considered uncompetitive, the speed boost that Darkrai gets, along with the sporadic nature of Hypnosis and sleep in general, paired with Darkrai's other excellent traits make it an absolutely horrible set to fight. For those reasons I will likely be voting to BAN the Nightmare King, and send him back to Dream's Deep.
 
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maybe not actually worth considering with how much riskier it is, however: blunder policy with dark void or hypnosis and you save the z-move slot and get to tera if you want. it's a budget version for sure since it's not guaranteeing your +1 speed proc and is liable to be knocked off. but ye. also could counter scarf revenge mons with the right coverage. after all, what's more annoying than a +2/+1 darkrai? a +2/+2 darkrai!
:sv/darkrai:
Darkrai @ Blunder Policy
Ability: Bad Dreams
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot/coverage
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast/other coverage
- Dark Void/Hypnosis
 
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